666 chip? Why a Texas student thinks her school ID is the "Mark of the Beast"
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Wow. Great story, great writing. Does our plaintiff and her family have a home phone/cell phones, have credit/debit cards (perhaps pay for everything in cash?), have a driver's license/social security card, etc.? All could be construed I imagine to contain the Number of the Beast. I hope they don't get too carried away.
The troubling issue is really the continued invasive measures schools take with regard to their students' privacy. If I read correctly the whole idea arose out of a desire to better track the school's students so as to insure proper funding from the state (this is in fact a sad fact, districts need school to be open and students to be present to qualify for funding that is meted out on a per diem basis by States and the Feds) (it is also a reason School Stupidintendents in the US Snowbelt will open schools even with bad weather predicted only to send the children home in the middle of the day--it counts as a whole day). I'm sorry, but if the school can't adequately track students without branding them then there is something else wrong and students shouldn't have to bear the burden of making the school's life easier by surrendering more of their rights. As a former elementary teacher I know how many resources are devoted to attendance taking, but it is not so great a burden, even in very large schools, to forsake freedom and privacy.
The troubling issue is really the continued invasive measures schools take with regard to their students' privacy. If I read correctly the whole idea arose out of a desire to better track the school's students so as to insure proper funding from the state (this is in fact a sad fact, districts need school to be open and students to be present to qualify for funding that is meted out on a per diem basis by States and the Feds) (it is also a reason School Stupidintendents in the US Snowbelt will open schools even with bad weather predicted only to send the children home in the middle of the day--it counts as a whole day). I'm sorry, but if the school can't adequately track students without branding them then there is something else wrong and students shouldn't have to bear the burden of making the school's life easier by surrendering more of their rights. As a former elementary teacher I know how many resources are devoted to attendance taking, but it is not so great a burden, even in very large schools, to forsake freedom and privacy.
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nbs2":2jra6z15 said:
Edward Said would be justified in smacking you if he wasn't dead.
That out of the way, you forgot option d: Dismiss lunatic ravings about the end of the world as the irrational rubbish that they are and get on with your life.
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Facial recognition, and other technologies, have the potential to be even more invasive than RFID.Seraphiel":2zfz3nyd said:
The timeclock analogy is actually a good one, and a substantial improvement over this: Bueller...
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Greho":r2fxj3kn said:
I think the difference is that there no laws that require you work for somebody that you don't want to. There are laws that force people to attend school.
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It is ridiculous to try to require everyone get an rfid chip on PERSONAL LIBERTY principals...
It is equally ridiculous to claim fear of a specific number for your reasoning.
It is equally ridiculous to claim fear of a specific number for your reasoning.
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jbode":29glqyim said:
Well here is what is going to happen:
1. These things will be implemented nationwide
2. Once implemented the problem of passing the tag to someone else will become an issue
3. The only solution to 2 above is ????
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nbs2":n7nmgz59 said:
The whole core christian belief of heaven and hell with judgement is a eastern belief. This was a turbulent time with Romans taking over, and Yahweh's chosen people had to understand their place in a larger world, far larger than the writers of the old testament with their tribal dealings with the greeks philistines and their pigs and wine or the many others, with the "we are not them" idea showing though out.
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Yeah, so why isn't the ACLU fighting this fight as well?brodie":2jwbhex5 said:
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Pretty much.Mydrrin":1vm2wd0y said:
Applying Western "literalism" to Christianity is a new phenomenon, relative to Christianity itself throughout history.
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Now that I think about it, what the hell happens when this girl lands a job? A lot of companies use RFID based prox cards for access to buildings and spaces now.
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I've always been frustrated by anyone that uses Revelation to analyze current events. If I recall correctly, Revelation itself says that no one will know when end times are coming, and thus anyone and everyone that starts preaching about how end times are upon us because of nuclear bombs, or RFID, or high school dances are, to me, saying they're smarter than the book that they covet and thereby negating themselves both through countering their own religious texts and by arrogance of thinking they can "beat the system" of Revelation.
My fiance grew up in hardcore evangelical baptist churches and, fortunately in my view, he has largely moved beyond the slanted views that he was taught in Sunday school. However, when I related this story to him, he reverted back into his whole "that's the Mark of the Beast" crap and I had to shake my head sadly and end the conversation, because when logic flies out the window and blind faith fanaticism sets in, there is no way to counter it.
If this student is so bloody concerned about the Mark of the Beast in the form of an RFID badge (her dad too), then I hope to hell they don't have cell phones--certainly not smart phones--as those have GPS tracking that is far more pervasive than RFID (being short-ranged and all). I also hope that they don't have certain models of cars, Nelson boxes in their TV/DVR, security alarm systems on their house, or a whole host of other modern technology that could easily allow for wide-spread tracking of their location. If they do, then this is obviously just a publicity ploy and they want to be famous for a bit by whining religious persecution in Texas--one of the last bastion states that really takes such lawsuits seriously.
I'm all for keeping the government in check so they don't start infringing upon our civil liberties. But I'm also not for crying wolf on every single goddamned little change that comes with technology, since all that does is breed apathy in the populous at large. Choose your battles, and make sure those you choose really freaking matter and have some merit. If this had been against smart phones for GPS tracking, then I'd be okay. But, people will say, those are optional. You don't have to own a smart phone--or even a cell phone--in today's society. Or a computer. Or a car. True. But, if I recall correctly form the first article on Ars over this, this girl is attending a private school and the school was motioning to relocate her to the public school district she lived in a result of this rebellion. Meaning she doesn't have to go to the nice shiny private school. Meaning she should shut the hell up or move to public school if she's really all that pissed about it. I'm sorry, but the sum total of the aspects to this case sound increasingly to me like this girl and her family want some short-lived fame.
Edit: for clarification, since in retrospect I realized this posting came off rather condescending to religion in general, I would like to say that I have no problem with discussing religions--or politics--in their general, theoretical senses (which is why I read the article in the first place). However, when people start saying their personal religious beliefs or their personal political beliefs, then I no longer wish to discuss with them. You cannot accomplish anything by arguing personal beliefs. Very, very rarely does it change anyone's mind, and the best way to convince/convert people is through living your own beliefs and being a good person such that others want to be more like you. Since this girl and her family are bringing the lawsuit from their personal beliefs, I hold no value on it, personally.
My fiance grew up in hardcore evangelical baptist churches and, fortunately in my view, he has largely moved beyond the slanted views that he was taught in Sunday school. However, when I related this story to him, he reverted back into his whole "that's the Mark of the Beast" crap and I had to shake my head sadly and end the conversation, because when logic flies out the window and blind faith fanaticism sets in, there is no way to counter it.
If this student is so bloody concerned about the Mark of the Beast in the form of an RFID badge (her dad too), then I hope to hell they don't have cell phones--certainly not smart phones--as those have GPS tracking that is far more pervasive than RFID (being short-ranged and all). I also hope that they don't have certain models of cars, Nelson boxes in their TV/DVR, security alarm systems on their house, or a whole host of other modern technology that could easily allow for wide-spread tracking of their location. If they do, then this is obviously just a publicity ploy and they want to be famous for a bit by whining religious persecution in Texas--one of the last bastion states that really takes such lawsuits seriously.
I'm all for keeping the government in check so they don't start infringing upon our civil liberties. But I'm also not for crying wolf on every single goddamned little change that comes with technology, since all that does is breed apathy in the populous at large. Choose your battles, and make sure those you choose really freaking matter and have some merit. If this had been against smart phones for GPS tracking, then I'd be okay. But, people will say, those are optional. You don't have to own a smart phone--or even a cell phone--in today's society. Or a computer. Or a car. True. But, if I recall correctly form the first article on Ars over this, this girl is attending a private school and the school was motioning to relocate her to the public school district she lived in a result of this rebellion. Meaning she doesn't have to go to the nice shiny private school. Meaning she should shut the hell up or move to public school if she's really all that pissed about it. I'm sorry, but the sum total of the aspects to this case sound increasingly to me like this girl and her family want some short-lived fame.
Edit: for clarification, since in retrospect I realized this posting came off rather condescending to religion in general, I would like to say that I have no problem with discussing religions--or politics--in their general, theoretical senses (which is why I read the article in the first place). However, when people start saying their personal religious beliefs or their personal political beliefs, then I no longer wish to discuss with them. You cannot accomplish anything by arguing personal beliefs. Very, very rarely does it change anyone's mind, and the best way to convince/convert people is through living your own beliefs and being a good person such that others want to be more like you. Since this girl and her family are bringing the lawsuit from their personal beliefs, I hold no value on it, personally.
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Ok, then, sue the IRS. For all but a minuscule fraction of us, taxes are a certainty, and you must have a taxpayer ID (or Social Security number) to interact with the IRS.kontos":2a9dvl4o said:
Also, if someone wants to go to college, or apply for virtually any regular emoyment, or wants to work for certain employers, or for the government at any level, or have any kind of background check or security clearance, said person is required to produce an ID.
In fact, to legally get a job, you have to produce an ID, which is filed with the IRS (form I-9).
It's not as optional as you make it sound.
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Koshchei":1yzkqp4d said:
I'm sure he'd think he was, but I'd disagree. I may not be well versed enough in all writings from around the world, but from the religious literature I've read, both historic and modern, I see what I believe is a tendency toward Orientalism in the sense that descriptions are not intended to be literal, but rather focus on imagery and feeling, be it Jewish, Christian, Muslim, Hindu, Buddhist, Jain, etc. This stands in contrast to the more Occidental literalism that a lot of preachers, especially in the US, especially in the stereotypical South, ascribe to the those scriptures. I find it much more reasonable to believe that famine would cover the earth through political, farming, and environmental conditions than as a result of some dude riding Black Beauty.
I'd comment on option d, but I can't tell what I set out as options a,b,and c.
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bsharp":i76lzoah said:
But they have financial incentive not to. So why would they do it? They might do it internally to help students, then not bother to change their totals reported to the state.
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tkioz":1kxhv6s1 said:
Dude, the entire thing is fevered dream crap dreamed up by several dudes high on "medicinal plants". Stating that you are a christian means that you got your beliefs and your information about a god from the same book these people use to justify their craziness (or maybe not even that, usually people get it from a pastor... for it to be the word of an almighty god, I can only see men talking). If this is dreamed up crap, what parts aren't and what process do you use to identify and separate those parts?
There's also a second problem, they have the same arguments to justify themselves as "true christians" as you do. They might say true christians follow the will of Christ in its entirety, right down to the details, not like those people who just skim through the teachings and follow the generalities.
Personally, I think that in this day and age we can, and should, do better on our ethic point of view than venerating someone who encouraged slavery, among other things that we as a reasoning society have come to realize shouldn't be done to another human being.
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Odd coincidence. "A Distant Thunder" seems to borrow music from old war films.
This appears to be the music from "Where Eagles Dare"
Where Eagles Dare
This appears to be the music from "Where Eagles Dare"
Where Eagles Dare
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nbs2":2jcrb0pg said:
Ah, but you can't build as good a game out of the former.
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I don't understand how anyone with even a shred of religious belief could criticize this student for what she believes. You can say your beliefs differ from hers, sure, but how can you call her crazy?
This is the thing I'll never get about people who subscribe to any sort of magical/mystical/spiritual belief: How can you draw a line between reasonable and unreasonable beliefs when none of them is supported by evidence? How is magical Jesus and the virgin birth more reasonable than, say, thetans and Xenu?
Even the belief in an amorphous, nonspecific spiritual entity in the universe seems to me no more or less reasonable than very specific beliefs that also defy the known laws of nature.
This is the thing I'll never get about people who subscribe to any sort of magical/mystical/spiritual belief: How can you draw a line between reasonable and unreasonable beliefs when none of them is supported by evidence? How is magical Jesus and the virgin birth more reasonable than, say, thetans and Xenu?
Even the belief in an amorphous, nonspecific spiritual entity in the universe seems to me no more or less reasonable than very specific beliefs that also defy the known laws of nature.
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Judge: "Your source of reference, your own scripture, clearly states the mark must be upon your forehead or hand to bear God's warth. As the mark, if it could even be construed following other sections of your scripter were in fact one, is upon a card, not upon your person, I hereby dismiss this case with prejudice, and demand you top pay the defendent's legal costs in this matter in full within 90 days."
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I find it interesting that many people find the concept ridiculous. Regardless of your convictions regarding the afterlife, the 20th century is littered with the philosophies and examples where this type of technology can marginalize a subgroup of people. Modern technology makes the threat much more effective than it might have been in the past.
In some ways, one could argue that we have already implemented some parts of this. In many states, there is a requirement to use e-verify before any new worker is allowed to participate in the legitimate economy. It's not so far a step off from saying that cards, passports, and such are inconvenient and can be lost, that national identification should really be an implant. RFID makes that practical.
Once everyone is appropriately tagged, then implementing wide spread pervasive discrimination is easy and effective. A large part of western society managed briefly in the 20th century to do this precisely with far less sophisticated technology and collective will. Are Christians so crazy to believe that at some point the pendulum might swing against them sometime in the future? It just happened to Jews 70 years ago.
In some ways, one could argue that we have already implemented some parts of this. In many states, there is a requirement to use e-verify before any new worker is allowed to participate in the legitimate economy. It's not so far a step off from saying that cards, passports, and such are inconvenient and can be lost, that national identification should really be an implant. RFID makes that practical.
Once everyone is appropriately tagged, then implementing wide spread pervasive discrimination is easy and effective. A large part of western society managed briefly in the 20th century to do this precisely with far less sophisticated technology and collective will. Are Christians so crazy to believe that at some point the pendulum might swing against them sometime in the future? It just happened to Jews 70 years ago.
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Yeah, anyone who wanted to become a Rasta to smoke weed will know that US courts are not liberal with the "religious exceptions".zelannii":2zwtx1fy said:
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sonolumi":2y2l15vj said:Someone should warn apocalyptic whackjobs about the 555 chip. It's EVERYWHERE! There's probably one in a device near you right now. SCARY!
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/555_timer_IC
Ah, the infamous 555 chip. The 'off-by-one error' that Satan is still trying to live down.
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SaaSaFRaaS":2dd2fjzt said:
Why stop there? The Mother Plane of Nation of Islam, the magic underwear and Jesus appearing in America of the Mormons, etc. There's so many things in the various religions that seem like a group of people are sitting around, taking some awfully big hits off of a pipe and then trying to one up each other in storytelling
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I'm afraid "The Mark" is gonna go a bit further than anything made by T.I.... Lucifer promised Eve "ye shall surely not die" in Eden and he's gonna keep that promise by attempting to give man immortality... Revelation 9:6 "And in those days shall men seek death, and shall not find it; and shall desire to die, and death shall flee from them." When was the last time men has any problem finding death? "The Mark" containing the chip will either be engineered by man and or aliens (technically demons and fallen angels) that will convert human DNA into a human/angel hybrid....
(Genesis 6: And it came to pass, when men began to multiply on the face of the earth, and daughters were born unto them, 2That the sons of God (ANGELS!) saw the daughters of men that they were fair; and they took them wives of all which they chose. 3And the LORD said, My spirit shall not always strive with man, for that he also is flesh: yet his days shall be an hundred and twenty years. 4There were giants in the earth in those days; and also after that, when the sons of God came in unto the daughters of men, and they bare children to them, the same became mighty men which were of old, men of renown.) --- YES FALLEN ANGELS WHO FELL WITH LUCIFER DID THIS! WOW!
... DNA thus seemingly giving man immortality but at that point you will no longer be human and will have damned your soul to hell because you accepted a modification to God's book contained within his Holy Temple... 1 Corinthians 3:16 "Know ye not that ye are the temple of God, and that the Spirit of God dwelleth in you?" God's plan is to get rid of this flesh because flesh has been corrupt since Eden... 1 Corinthians 15:50 "Now this I say, brethren, that flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God; neither doth corruption inherit incorruption." Satan wants to trap man in this flesh because as long as man is trapped he is subject to sin...
That's the point of movies like Twilight (Bella wanting to be a vampire) and superhero movies in general... To instill within the fallen human heart a desire for immortality, thus prepping them for a day when they'll leap for joy at the chance to obtain it in their own way without God...
(Genesis 6: And it came to pass, when men began to multiply on the face of the earth, and daughters were born unto them, 2That the sons of God (ANGELS!) saw the daughters of men that they were fair; and they took them wives of all which they chose. 3And the LORD said, My spirit shall not always strive with man, for that he also is flesh: yet his days shall be an hundred and twenty years. 4There were giants in the earth in those days; and also after that, when the sons of God came in unto the daughters of men, and they bare children to them, the same became mighty men which were of old, men of renown.) --- YES FALLEN ANGELS WHO FELL WITH LUCIFER DID THIS! WOW!
... DNA thus seemingly giving man immortality but at that point you will no longer be human and will have damned your soul to hell because you accepted a modification to God's book contained within his Holy Temple... 1 Corinthians 3:16 "Know ye not that ye are the temple of God, and that the Spirit of God dwelleth in you?" God's plan is to get rid of this flesh because flesh has been corrupt since Eden... 1 Corinthians 15:50 "Now this I say, brethren, that flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God; neither doth corruption inherit incorruption." Satan wants to trap man in this flesh because as long as man is trapped he is subject to sin...
That's the point of movies like Twilight (Bella wanting to be a vampire) and superhero movies in general... To instill within the fallen human heart a desire for immortality, thus prepping them for a day when they'll leap for joy at the chance to obtain it in their own way without God...
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portent":30nqdkhm said:
And then when your kid turns up missing you will demand why the school didn't know where your kid was...
Not supporting this silly waste of money but still...
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SaaSaFRaaS":38gxisjh said:
It's not the belief per se, but the hypocrisy that goes along with it.
Like others have mentioned in regard to this story, if this girl and her dad are so afraid of "the mark of the beast", then one would assume that they don't have an ssn, cell phone, credit card, etc. as these would all fall under the same categories. And even though it is not mentioned, it is doubtful that they are without all of those.
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Who really cares about the whole mark of the beast argument. The bottom line really is that students already got this idea beat. They will simply have their friends carry their badges for them, and then ditch class. Unless the teacher looking to start frisking the students, or searching pockets, it's easy enough to carry an extra badge with you
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ncgmac":g35ntw1g said:
Hypothetically speaking, what would happen if the students arranged that ALL the id cards for the entire school should just happen to be in the same class at the same time? I wonder how robust the software reading these things is...
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Having been raised by fundamentalist Christians it's always strange to me that things like this aren't part of the average person's lexicon and have to be explained.
Of course, when you break it down in this way it definitely sounds hilarious and insane.
Of course, when you break it down in this way it definitely sounds hilarious and insane.
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Q1DM6":2xg5mzhl said:
I don't hate anyone, if I am included in the group. I find religion to be very interesting in what it does for people.
Part of it is taking away people's anxieties. Gives people something to do when there is things they can't do anything about. It's kind of chuckled about by atheists but "let god take the wheel" gives a very good idea of what this is. But growing a beard or not changing your underwear by sports people under stress allows them to play better and have sharper minds by not being hampered by anxieties, it's doing something when not everything is under your control - it takes away anxieties, same with prayer lets people who have loved ones sick or dying sleep better.
Why do we have anxieties? It gives up motivation to do things. Our brains way to give impetus, did I check the fence of the bull you put away. Makes us make sure things are done, but it get's messed up when there is so much in todays world that we can't do much about.
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calson33":1xwbiqcg said:
I think it's a bit cynical to automatically assume these people are faking it, that it's just a legal strategy for her to get out of carrying the RFID card. The article makes it clear that this is a good student with no attendance problems.
I accept that she actually believes an RFID card is the mark of the beast or whatever, and I don't see how she is a hypocrite for not also thinking a Visa card is the mark of the beast. Because it's irrational to believe one is and the other isn't? Is that your argument?
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That's the fun thing about bumping into different groups!aeolist":3pfi1bb1 said:
When I started theological debates with my Protestant brothers and sisters, as a Catholic, I began to learn about all sorts of new terminologies (pre-trib, post-trib, millenial, Calvinism, Arianism, etc).
And then when I got to talk with some Orthodox folks, I started encountering all sorts of neat Greek terminologies.
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devsfan1830":x9gpmbk8 said:
Your post is precisely why this girl wisely opted to use the religion angle.
So called liberal types don't mind this obvious sort of intrusion but she has some chance of getting the nutty religious types sufficiently riled up.
You've got to know your audience and how to deal with various types of sheep.
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DannyB":1kmyu2qs said:
Personally, I prefer my God's fury not full strength but mixed with vermouth and little olive juice.
But seriously, the thing that causes the most concern is really just a sub-population of humans that would rather be frightened than happy.
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