666 chip? Why a Texas student thinks her school ID is the "Mark of the Beast"
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While in many ways I'm in favor of schools keeping better track of their students (sorry, but if I'm sending my kid to a public school I do want them to know where she is... they're still children, and given that many parents don't have other schooling options within reach and are therefor legally required to send their children to public school, there is in my opinion a definite mandate for the school to provide adequate monitoring for the parents, short of emancipation), an RFID badge seems questionable if they have their students' welfare primarily in mind. It's too easy to just pass one to a friend to take in to cover for truancy.
However, if always trying to appear as if their attendance numbers are high, seemingly in a way that substantiates those numbers for high reimbursement (possibly higher than actual attendance), it makes much more sense.
It's hard to discern how much of it is the latter or how much is just poor logistical thinking, potentially combined with a sweetheart or crony deal on the badges, chips, and underlying systems.
Thanks for a great read on the mark of the beast angle, some of the more focused academic research (the reasoning relating to gematria) is interesting
However, if always trying to appear as if their attendance numbers are high, seemingly in a way that substantiates those numbers for high reimbursement (possibly higher than actual attendance), it makes much more sense.
It's hard to discern how much of it is the latter or how much is just poor logistical thinking, potentially combined with a sweetheart or crony deal on the badges, chips, and underlying systems.
Thanks for a great read on the mark of the beast angle, some of the more focused academic research (the reasoning relating to gematria) is interesting
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Interesting read. I am fascinated by the how Christian phenomenon at the time of the rise of the Christians. The whole eastern influences and heaven and hell incorporation in the Jewish faith. The many splits in the Jewish faith at the time when obviously the God they believed in wasn't going to help them conquer everyone by faith alone. As show over and over again against the rebellions of righteous Jews against the steel of Roman rule. The rise of apocalypse in the religion like the isolation and strict Jewish Essenes.
I'm coming to conclusion that christ wasn't a person. The sayings of Jesus, and there were persons who were called the brothers of Jesus. When taking the gospels it makes sense when Mark and Mathew are the same slightly modified to tell stories and lessons from the sayings of Jesus. The sense of crushing angst from belief to reality and the questions of why.
It's fascinating anyways how people respond and reconcile their beliefs and reality.
I'm coming to conclusion that christ wasn't a person. The sayings of Jesus, and there were persons who were called the brothers of Jesus. When taking the gospels it makes sense when Mark and Mathew are the same slightly modified to tell stories and lessons from the sayings of Jesus. The sense of crushing angst from belief to reality and the questions of why.
It's fascinating anyways how people respond and reconcile their beliefs and reality.
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Whatever the family's religious propensity, a blanket argument from pathos was no doubt simpler to make than a careful legal analysis of civil rights; better for generating media scrutiny too.
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Horned beasts coming out of oceans? Invisible sky (or would it be Earth) gods crushing our existence through RFID tags?
Just.. Just wow..
Sometimes it is embarrassing to be the same species as these people.
Just.. Just wow..
Sometimes it is embarrassing to be the same species as these people.
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Your life crystal has turned black.
Please report to the carousel for "Renewal"
Doesn't matter the reason who wants to be tagged like a cow?
Please report to the carousel for "Renewal"
Doesn't matter the reason who wants to be tagged like a cow?
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Mujokan":rnloaes3 said:
I'm not going to say that issue was completely settled by the time Revelation was written, but a lot of that stuff was hashed out in the Pauline epistles a good 4 decades previous. if the relationship between the law and gentiles is a concern, it's a pretty minor one. The biggest theme, especially in the first three chapters (which consists of seven letters written to seven churches in Asia Minor), is the relation of Christians (be they of Jewish or gentile origin) to the culture. For instance, the church at Pergamum was warned about eating food sacrificed to idols or other gods. So it's more a Christians vs. culture mindset than a Jews vs. gentiles issue.
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If the religious liberty argument were to work, couldn't it also be used to combat voter ID laws, as photo IDs are coded?
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desinerd":2vbqhqyo said:
Sort of. You can use a religious exemption to opt out of social security and obamacare. I suspect rather few people will be willing to go whole hog into a religious community of the type that can get the exemption. The government is totally tolerant of people who want to live like 1st century hermits. They're just not such big fans of those who pick and choose when they're ultra-religious.
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I think some are missing the larger point that programs like this make our citizenry more comfortable with a surveillance society. Start 'em young.
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Jakelshark
Ars Tribunus Militum
I really appreciated the attempt to serious explore and explain their point of view, particularly the objectivity. Growing up in the South and going to private religious schools my whole life (Catholic at least, so not as bad) it's still boggling my mind how many people accept these ideas with no thought.
I clearly remember being a child and saying things like "but this doesn't make any sense" and asking "why." To this day when I see people I grew up with, I see the indoctrination. They won't let go of the major stuff, and some will buy into stuff like this without a thought or question. I'm not saying there is no god. It's just the insane dichotomy of having such a strong reverence for the Christian mythology but a severe lack of knowledge on it. The Easter-Sunday Christians just lap it up that one hour of the year or the ignore it and keep on with tradition.
I'm kinda ranting here, but if you aren't living and dealing with these ideas on a regular basis then you really have no idea what it's like. There are the few who do believe in such things, and then a large number of passive people who legitimize the minority's voice because they don't even pay attention to what they claim to believe in.
I clearly remember being a child and saying things like "but this doesn't make any sense" and asking "why." To this day when I see people I grew up with, I see the indoctrination. They won't let go of the major stuff, and some will buy into stuff like this without a thought or question. I'm not saying there is no god. It's just the insane dichotomy of having such a strong reverence for the Christian mythology but a severe lack of knowledge on it. The Easter-Sunday Christians just lap it up that one hour of the year or the ignore it and keep on with tradition.
I'm kinda ranting here, but if you aren't living and dealing with these ideas on a regular basis then you really have no idea what it's like. There are the few who do believe in such things, and then a large number of passive people who legitimize the minority's voice because they don't even pay attention to what they claim to believe in.
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Seems to me that someone with such strong convictions shouldn't want to be surrounded by people with the "mark of the beast".
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warmachine":3aonagd7 said:
They're probably some of the people who will demand you acccept a literal interpretation of the Bbible on issues they feel strongly about, but when you point that out they will say how those were only listed as examples or something and that we should be more flexible in our interpretation
I'm quite happy being agnostic. If the Rapture is gonna happen, please go ahead and get rid of all the Bible thumpers? kthxGod.
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Sorry, I can't just up arrow this. Being rather non-religious I honestly can't say I've seen this angle from your particular viewpoint personally. Thanks. I appreciate and sincerely thank you for this well reasoned and insightful post.MacTravdog":yznpx60y said:
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brodie":2rn0hg7e said:
Umm. Isn't religious freedom a civil liberty? I even thought is was kinda one of the more important ones. That's why it got covered in the First Amendment.
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AJester":jdtlibmh said:
We have a congressman on the science committee who won't hazard a guess on the age of the earth because theologians don't agree. We really are doomed if we can't get rid of all this fairy tale nonsense. It is time to move forward.
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Dilbert":31921wva said:
In my experience, it is the smallest of minorities of Christians who have actually read the bible in its entirety. The vast, vast majority receive their scripture in short segments, hand-in-hand with their pastor's interpretation every Sunday. Most Christians have read a few chapters on their own (The Pentateuch, 4 Canonical Gospels, rarely much else, often less). By and large the problem is that people like this *aren't* reading their own holy book; they're having someone with an agenda tell them what their holy book says. If more Christians read the bible on their own, I'd like to believe that we'd have more Christians living Christ-like. Conversely, some think it'd make more Atheists:
"Take some time and put the Bible on your summer reading list. Try and stick with it cover to cover. Not because it teaches history; we've shown you it doesn't. Read it because you'll see for yourself what the Bible is all about. It sure isn't great literature. If it were published as fiction, no reviewer would give it a passing grade. There are some vivid scenes and some quotable phrases, but there's no plot, no structure, there's a tremendous amount of filler, and the characters are painfully one-dimensional. Whatever you do, don't read the Bible for a moral code: it advocates prejudice, cruelty, superstition, and murder. Read it because: we need more atheists — and nothin' will get you there faster than readin' the damn Bible." - Penn Jillette
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I see students charging others to swipe their cards for them. Class "attended", problem solved. The school still gets their funds so I don't see why they'd fight it too hard.
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I bet the sales team who talked the school district into "needing" this system deals with these arguments all the time.
Revelation and apocalypse aside, the fact is all but certain that the presence of RFID tags in public schools means nothing more than that the public got ripped off.
Revelation and apocalypse aside, the fact is all but certain that the presence of RFID tags in public schools means nothing more than that the public got ripped off.
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From the article:
I don't think that's the section that causes such consternation.
You really should have included a quote from Rev 14.
That, combined with your quote from Rev 13 is probably what causes such concern.
I don't think that's the section that causes such consternation.
You really should have included a quote from Rev 14.
(emphasis added)
That, combined with your quote from Rev 13 is probably what causes such concern.
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HeyWaitASecond":29peph59 said:
Voter ID laws have been pretty well wiped out. The courts looked to freedom rather than wacky fairy tales for guidance.
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This. If kids are used to being tracked at school, how much will they complain as adults when their movements are tracked and stored via license plate readers and cell phone location?Ostracus":3oyg5v87 said:
Conservative evangelicals and privacy advocates may make strange bedfellows but I'm okay with that.
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Ok, so, by that statement alone, that would rule out any online account of any sort, credit cards, drivers licences, taxes, any form of financial account, among other things.
If they are going to use this kind of justification, they should be forced to abide by it in all facets of their life.
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Swing and a miss. I don't have the answers to everything, nor did I say or even infer as much. But thanks forRaging Canuck":3avkt6u8 said:
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Nah, it's just the slippery slope argument. Once the technology is accepted it's a short step to implants.Hagen":16hby15q said:warmachine":16hby15q said:
They're probably some of the people who will demand you acccept a literal interpretation of the Bbible on issues they feel strongly about, but when you point that out they will say how those were only listed as examples or something and that we should be more flexible in our interpretation
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Religious issues aside, this school is simply trying to maximize the amount of money they get from the state. With school budgets getting cut left and right, they have to try anything they can to get more money, and since state funding (or some percentage of) is tied directly to student attendance, this is a logical step. And before you say that a kid can give their badge to another kid, the school won't care, because that gives them more money. It's not about making sure the kid is in the classroom. It's about getting money for every kid that's on campus, no matter where they are on campus. With a decent understanding of RFID and the inherent limitations, I'm all for this kind of tracking if it means the school will be better funded.
What i wonder is if the school already has some kind of student ID badge system in place. Most schools already print out student badges and require students to have them at all times while on campus, so I don't see how is this any different.
What i wonder is if the school already has some kind of student ID badge system in place. Most schools already print out student badges and require students to have them at all times while on campus, so I don't see how is this any different.
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MacTravdog":3kb08rm8 said:
I'm not sure what your interpretation of the bible brings to the discussion, short of chiming in that the people objecting to this are crazy and ignorant.
And that's the problem with your post this article: the underlying theme that if your beliefs are crazy or ignorant, they aren't proper religion that deserve protection. That thinking, in turn, is the result of modern liberalism's obsession with being clever and hip and the concomitant need to disparage people that liberals disagree with.
Even if their exegesis is completely wrong (by whatever standard) and mixed up with modern popular culture, that's what they believe. Or are you claiming religious freedom is conditional on it being a sufficiently correct exegesis of a text that is from a sufficiently far away place and thousands of years old?
If you're not claiming that, what's the point of any of this religious analysis?
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Jakelshark
Ars Tribunus Militum
AJester":h4pqdf2b said:
Well if you look at the general history of America and the popularity of religion you can see certain correlations between the number of faithful and major advancements. In the 20th century, America kicked serious ass until the evangelical movement started to get into the swing of things. Ironic that technology has greatly aided them in spreading their messages.
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MalachiteATF":27w3f3ck said:
It is important to read it on your own and with an open mind. Reading it in a bible study group with someone guiding your interpretation is not helpful. It is also important to remember that even though the New Testament reads like first hand accounts, it was written hundreds of years after Christ lived.
Most of the Christians I ask to read the bible give me blank stares and then throw out some well worn bible quote. The best thing that comes from a thorough reading of the bible is the realization that there is nothing in there you should be allowing to control your life.
I encourage people to hit all the big ones and then investigate the ancient religions and realize everything in both testaments is just a retelling of stories from 1000s of years earlier.
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RIght, because if people's morals don't seem consistent to us we should force them to adjust their morality to meet our standards.tehashi":2qd0hqlr said:
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When these holy rollers give up their driver's licenses, I might buy their fucking story.
I guess no one in this family ever worked in a building where they had to show ID. I guess the student in question doesn't already possess a student ID? Social Security number?
Their bank knows more about their behavior through their debit cards, than the school will know about this student.
When you are standing in line at your favorite store this holiday season, waiting for the cashier to optically scan every item, and wondering, "gee, there must be a better way..."
There is. Paranoid chumps like these will keep RFID at retail from ever happening, and hamstring progress.
And if you're making comments on Ars, and somehow deluding yourself into thinking you can stay "off the grid" as long as there is no RFID.. You are smoking some gooooood stuff.
</rant>
I guess no one in this family ever worked in a building where they had to show ID. I guess the student in question doesn't already possess a student ID? Social Security number?
Their bank knows more about their behavior through their debit cards, than the school will know about this student.
When you are standing in line at your favorite store this holiday season, waiting for the cashier to optically scan every item, and wondering, "gee, there must be a better way..."
There is. Paranoid chumps like these will keep RFID at retail from ever happening, and hamstring progress.
And if you're making comments on Ars, and somehow deluding yourself into thinking you can stay "off the grid" as long as there is no RFID.. You are smoking some gooooood stuff.
</rant>
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The reason it's called the mark of the beast is because that's how the technology was perfected. Today, after years of experimentation, cows and dogs have RFID chips embedded under their skin without infection or rejection.
The students protesting are brave - I wear a collar every day with an RFID chip to get into work and I didn't rebel.
Very sad to watch humanity enslave itself with always-on front facing cameras and GPS tracking.
Imagine trying to escape from the Nazis today!
Privacy was important.
The students protesting are brave - I wear a collar every day with an RFID chip to get into work and I didn't rebel.
Very sad to watch humanity enslave itself with always-on front facing cameras and GPS tracking.
Imagine trying to escape from the Nazis today!
Privacy was important.
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This is the theory of Elaine Pagels.Eric":u9et018f said:
Source
In my opinion, Jesus definitely comes from an Essene background in some way. Of course, thinking yourself the Messiah was not a normal thing for Essenes though. Nor was accepting everyone into the fold.Mydrrin":u9et018f said:
Read through this and see if it reminds you of anything! http://www.jewishencyclopedia.com/articles/5867-essenes
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