666 chip? Why a Texas student thinks her school ID is the "Mark of the Beast"

The theology behind a battle over RFID tags.

Read the whole story

 

[Jokotai]

+1 to RFID tagging being a huge privacy (and security!) concern, especially in the context of those kids being students. In the modern day, it isn't too tough to imagine a member of school administration having a streak of pedophaelia, or even just a mean vengeance streak. So, we want to give school administrators the ability to see the last known location of any student in real time? Get your technology off of my kids.

It's sad, however, that they feel they have to bring religion into this. I roll my eyes every time I see somebody fudge the numbers on a report, not because those numbers are subject to an error margin, or even to lie because the numbers are unfavorable, but because they contain 666 in any position along the entire number. Plus, claiming some sort of religious exclusion does nothing to protect any of the other kids from this potential breach of privacy.

So, in the end, I just hope that the religion claim doesn't detract from the immensely more viable privacy claim.

 

[another ars account]

In the modern day, it isn't too tough to imagine a member of school administration having a streak of pedophaelia, or even just a mean vengeance streak.

"The modern day" meaning "the age of paranoia?"

How does an RFID tag with a range of maybe 10' help out your hypothetical vengeful pedophile school principal? He digs a trap in the floor in the school's entranceway and hooks it up to an Arduino with an RFID shield?

 

[ewelch]

Sorry, I can't just up arrow this. Being rather non-religious I honestly can't say I've seen this angle from your particular viewpoint personally. Thanks. I appreciate and sincerely thank you for this well reasoned and insightful post.

Due to a misunderstanding, I had the wrong response. Good post!

 

[Jokotai]

In the modern day, it isn't too tough to imagine a member of school administration having a streak of pedophaelia, or even just a mean vengeance streak.

"The modern day" meaning "the age of paranoia?"

How does an RFID tag with a range of maybe 10' help out your hypothetical vengeful pedophile school principal? He digs a trap in the floor in the school's entranceway and hooks it up to an Arduino with an RFID shield?

Not necessarily a principal. Any staff who has access to the RFID logs. And those logs could tell a potential attacker when and where a student is in an isolated area. The potential for abuse is much more likely and sinister than the convenience of counting role can justify.

I'd rather be paranoid than openly trusting of a public school system.

 

[kyrsid]

Obviously this badge,"smart" as they call it, like they call the surveillance "Big brother", right? -to make you feel secure and safe- is a violation of privacy. I have the right to go wherever I want whenever I want as long I don't violate the privacy and the liberty or other people. Ok? Kids have these rights too. We all, are neither slaves nor cows to have a bell around our neck. Really, it is also up to the parents to give a proper behavioral education to their children for God's sake.

However, even though this badge is not the one in the apocalypse, it is just a way of getting people to get accustom with what will arrive quite soon -I assume- and that will be a hypodermic chip that will contain all your personal information, your wallet, and it will act as a locating device. I mean even with today's technology they can locate a cell phone anywhere in the world.

This "service" will be of tremendous value. No one will be able to steal your money as everything will be electronic (no cash) and we will be charged through this chip as a credit card. We will not need to carry money with us. No one will be able to avoid taxes, all those characterized as criminals and terrorists would be tracked and captured when they would try to do illegal acts. You will be able to travel with no passport as this will be implanted in you. You will be recognizable anywhere. Your doctor will be letting you know if you are taking the right nutrition for your health and your blood pressure and much more nice things.

That's all fine and dandy and it's really great service to all humans but what happens when this "service" falls in the wrong hands? You all know that electronic systems can be hacked. Who's to tell me that someone will not change my ID to something I am not? Or empty my wallet? Who's to tell me that if I did a stupid thing as a kid I will be able to shake it off and get a second chance? And if an oppressive regime comes in power how would anyone be able to raise awareness to people as they would be immediately cut down? How will you get out then?

I am not talking religion here; I'm being pragmatic.People will be stigmatized for all their lives. If you don't have the chip people will not trust you, you will not be able to get a job, raise a family, feed your kids, feed yourself. It will not matter if you are good or bad. You will just be uncontrollable and if they cannot control you then you are a potential threat and you know what happens to potential threats right? Need I remind you what happen in the US between 1950 and 1956? When people where giving one another so they can preserve their lives? Do you really want to repeat history in such a horrible way?

The question is; will you take the red pill or the blue pill

 

[Sp3sm30]

Why a Texas student thinks her school ID is the "Mark of the Beast"

Brainwashed from birth?

Socializes only with other like-minded people?

Read one book many times, instead of many books once?

Didn't travel much so knows little to nothing about other cultures and other religions?

Are we looking for a real answer to your question, or are we looking for a politically correct one that won't upset anyone?

How are you going to socialize with people that are not like-minded if you call them "brainwashed"?

 

[mntmn3]

"The hugely broad definition offered here would seem to sweep up many things, including my children's annual city pool passes" -- Your children are legally required to go to the city pool?

 

[Deleted member 192806]

How are you going to socialize with people that are not like-minded if you call them "brainwashed"?

Get an Ars subscription.

 

[spazzblaster]

So are RFID chips the mark of the beast? I don't know.

Enough said.

 

[spazzblaster]

So let me get this straight.... It's OK to be against this for privacy concerns, but it's not "appropriate and understandable" to be against this for religious reasons.

Can I ask a question? Who made up these rules? You?

Yes that's correct. It would be understandable, although misinformed, to be against this for privacy concerns. And, yes, it's frick'en insane to be against this on the basis that it's the "mark of the beast". Not to mention that it doesn't even fit the parameters of what her religious mythology states the "mark of the beast" would be.

And yes, I made up these rules, because I'm not a crazy whacked-out fruit-loop.

 

[spazzblaster]

I think this article takes a stance right from the start, at the headline, that this is a joke...

very perceptive

This article, and many of the comments as well, seem to mock this idea as though this person is over-reacting and/or suggest that this family is a bunch of demon-fearing bible thumpers with no reasonable stance on rights.

Religion aside...

Religion cannot be put aside as they made it the basis for their argument, not privacy concerns which would have been appropriate and understandable.

I commend these people for having the balls to stand up for their rights.

What rights? The right not to be 'marked by the beast'?

1) Thanks for changing my comment, but I still argue that this is a biased article and takes the stance that these people don't have a legitimate argument. Laughing at the Constitution is not cool, Ars.

2) Had you paid attention to my comment, you would understand that I was trying to say that they *MAY HAVE* chosen to address this as a freedom of religion violation because of the difficulty in getting a reasonable outcome when addressing it as a rights violation. That said, religion aside or not, freedom of religion IS a right, and there are many other constitutional protections against things like forced tracking (RFID).

3) Are you serious? What rights? Freedom of Religion, Freedom of Speech come to mind. How about you review the Fourteenth Amendment:

http://www.gpo.gov/fdsys/pkg/GPO-CONAN- ... -10-15.pdf

.... and maybe the rest of the Bill of Rights as well as reading the Constitution for once?


You may not agree with these people, but my original point is just: don't mock people for standing up for their rights.

There is a reason there are so many amendments to the Constitution and Bill of Rights and so many cases arguing violations of peoples' rights; there are many ways to interpret them.

Schools have been forced to accommodate religion previously, such things as wearing traditional clothing, practicing prayer, etc. There's no reason to think that being forced to be electronically tracked should be any different, nor should you guys be so quick to accept such a thing or mock anyone for fighting against these violations.

1) Thanks for changing my comment....

I did not change your comment AT ALL. I quoted the parts I wanted to respond too. But thanks for making crap up. So as not to offend your delicate sensibilities I've included your entire quote above this time.

2) Had you paid attention to my comment, you would understand that I was trying to say that they *MAY HAVE* chosen to address this as a freedom of religion violation because of the difficulty in getting a reasonable outcome when addressing it as a rights violation.

Next time don't try to say it, just say it. And besides, using religion to get your way because you couldn't get your way through a valid route is bullshit, and it's dishonest.

 

[spazzblaster]

12/02/2012 - Vatican introduces new security measures after Vatileaks scandal

Vatican clergy and employees will be issued with an identity card complete with a microchip-tracking device in sweeping new security measures designed to prevent a repeat of the Vatileaks scandal.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldne ... andal.html



Uh-oh, the Pope now carries the Mark of the Beast! Run for your lives!

 

[CygnusRising]

Badges?! We don't need no stinking badges!

 

[another ars account]

Not necessarily a principal. Any staff who has access to the RFID logs. And those logs could tell a potential attacker when and where a student is in an isolated area. The potential for abuse is much more likely and sinister than the convenience of counting role can justify.

I'd rather be paranoid than openly trusting of a public school system.

I think this RFID thing is stupid, actually, but the difference in trust required between letting any school have your kids 6+ hours a day and doing the same with OMGWTFRFID! is so tiny as to be useful for a lesson on the calculus of limits. And can someone please explain to me what the fuck this hypothetical School of Danger is doing placing RFID readers "in an isolated area"?

Knock yourself out with the paranoia, though. I'd rather turn my attention to things that make a statistical difference to school safety like the cars flying through the crosswalks out front.

Edit: If you want to make an argument based on the wasteful, bureaucratic expense of it all, that's a different matter.

 

[Jokotai]

I think this RFID thing is stupid, actually, but the difference in trust required between letting any school have your kids 6+ hours a day and doing the same with OMGWTFRFID! is so tiny as to be useful for a lesson on the calculus of limits. And can someone please explain to me what the fuck this hypothetical School of Danger is doing placing RFID readers "in an isolated area"?

I'm making inferences based on the article's statements:

By now, you've probably heard the story: exemplary student Andrea Hernandez has decided to fight her San Antonio high school's plan to outfit every student with an RFID-equipped badge in order to better take attendance and track students while on school property.

If they're tracking students while on school property, I'm assuming that they have readers in more places than just at entrances and exits. If it were clarified to me that they're just there to read "here/not here" then I'm willing to be a little more understanding, with the caveat that trying to track present/absent via RFID logs is more of a hassle than anything else. My workplace uses RFID at security entrances, and even with strict rules about not scanning another person in, they're still only about 80% accurate.

Knock yourself out with the paranoia, though. I'd rather turn my attention to things that make a statistical difference to school safety like the cars flying through the crosswalks out front.

I love paranoia. It tastes great, and is less filling. But I have an innate distrust of the public school system, which is why I'm also currently trying to get my child into an academy so that she won't have to go through the same things that I did.

Edit: If you want to make an argument based on the wasteful, bureaucratic expense of it all, that's a different matter.

I hadn't even thought about that angle, TBH. But I suppose some of it has to do with the odd notion that a public service has to spend every cent of its budget or face cuts as a reward for finding a way to save the taxpayer.

 

[acl]

Let me ask a simple question: Is it reasonable for a public school to require the kids to eat pork or eat meat? Even if their religion prohibits it? Most people seem to think that dietary restrictions based upon religion is fine, but then have an issue when someone doesn't want an embedded chip put into their bodies...

Let me stop you right there. Nobody is proposing putting any chips in schoolchildrens' bodies.

It's on a BADGE that they carry on a lanyard.

You're entitled to your own version of your religious beliefs. You're not entitled to misrepresent the facts.

First see the article:

Former intelligence analyst Terry L. Cook, author of the book Mark of the New World Order, writes: “It is my well-researched opinion that the Mark of the Beast, as related in scripture, is absolutely literal. Soon, all people on earth will be coerced into accepting a Mark in their right hand or forehead. I am convinced that it will be an injectable passive RFID transponder with a computer chip—a literal injection with a literal electronic biochip ‘mark.”
...
But if you subscribe to the basic worldview outlined here, as the Hernandez family apparently does, wearing a high school ID card with an RFID chip might look like the first step to these dystopian visions, rather than just one more case of invasive tracking technology with which our society is currently wrestling.

I am not misrepresenting facts. I am representing the opinion of the Hernandez family, as presented in the article. My point was how I found it interesting that the _very_ angry condemnation of these beliefs as "illogical", and "stupid" by many of the people posting here who I strongly suspect have little issue with other religious beliefs such as dietary restrictions or which days to rest, etc. I believe that you can make as good a case for those beliefs being illogical or unreasonable as a fear of being tracked or treated as a number. In fact, the argument could be made that the invasion of privacy by the government may be a more "reasonable" fear.

I did not indicate my personal religious beliefs and I did not indicate whether or not I personally agreed or disagreed with the Hernandez family, I simply was pointing out how I think the many of the posters are probably being inconsistent on what they think is unreasonable only because this fear is new. I think it was sad that you attacked me, but didn't care enough to actually read and understand what was in the my post. My point was to try to get people to think about _why_ they are so offended.