War with...Iran?

concernUrsus

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"Now" is the wrong timeframe. Israel can go on being a genocidal apartheid state as long as the US can give it the weapons and diplomatic cover to do so. But that situation is coming to an end, and Russia, China, or the EU will be far less likely to and capable of propping them up. A minority population of racists on a small strip of land will find themselves in a precarious position.

Israel did sort of find peace with most of the neighbors. Honestly, I think the hostility between Iran and Israel is precisely because they cannot hurt each other too badly. It makes it easy to drum up the hate to distract the internal problems instead of sit down and negotiate. After years of leaning into the hate, both of them are backed into a hole.
 
China is also essentially the world's workshop now, which requires petrochemicals for needs other than energy. Take the items made fully or partially of plastic or rubber, for instance. With Trump's move, the current situation will make many common consumer goods much more expensive worldwide. That alone will make US domestic politics that much more interesting.

Very true, but those aren't as price sensitive because the value of the resulting goods is a lot higher than the value of the input commodities. Oil as an energy source where you don't really do anything other than transport, refine, and burn it, is far more sensitive. It'll be felt globally, but in terms of China's domestic economy they'd be reasonably well insulated. There will be some demand destruction, but they also get a huge windfall from increased demand for renewables so they're positioned to win either way.

Speaking from experience on those supposed to be price insensitive items, Karolus is absolutely correct, while Megalodon is absolutely wrong.
Plastic and rubber price will absolutely reflect crude oil price, naphta price, refineries availability, and anything tangentially connected that can be used as an excuse for price increase. Resin price will usually rocket up or in free fall whenever there is any disturbance. And current situation is definitely a rocket up situation, going up 50% higher from end of February. There is no price guarantee right now, it's negotiated on the spot and paid in cash. The problem is the same as oil, there is no guarantee of when the replacement is coming. Importers are faced with canceled contract (which they have paid full in advance), and what they have is what they can sell for the foreseeable future.
 

Megalodon

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Speaking from experience on those supposed to be price insensitive items, Karolus is absolutely correct, while Megalodon is absolutely wrong.
Plastic and rubber price will absolutely reflect crude oil price, naphta price, refineries availability, and anything tangentially connected that can be used as an excuse for price increase. Resin price will usually rocket up or in free fall whenever there is any disturbance. And current situation is definitely a rocket up situation, going up 50% higher from end of February. There is no price guarantee right now, it's negotiated on the spot and paid in cash. The problem is the same as oil, there is no guarantee of when the replacement is coming. Importers are faced with canceled contract (which they have paid full in advance), and what they have is what they can sell for the foreseeable future.

Cheers, that's good to know. I think I didn't realize how much of the intermediate processing was happening in the gulf countries and also impacted by the shipping restrictions.
 

Macam

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TPP was deeply unpopular with the broader public by the time she opposed it, though Clinton had to be basically bullied into opposing it -- it's exactly the kind of thing she would've advocated for. Broad trade deal, basic rules, etc etc, but there was a lot of concern about more offshoring, not enough teeth on the enforcement mechanisms, and so forth.

But yeah, Trump's certainly not a willing agent of China. He's a willing agent of Russia and unwilling one of China, he's just too stupid to see the latter. Culturally, to the degree that he has any, he's basically just a wannabe Central Asian republic strongman.
 

Megalodon

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I think trump likes how Putin runs his country but accusing him of being a russian agent is pure BlueAnon

I think that's probably over-indexing on how much is sincere admiration, how much is willingly doing the bidding, and how much is kompromat, and how much of it is being a fucking idiot with competent regimes running circles around him. I don't think it's profitable to sweat those distinctions.
 
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It's more or less working in Syria. And Iran is in a much better starting position.
Not quite working. The forces that answer to the A-Sharaa regime have been butchering Alawites, Druz and Kurds since he took power. By the thousands
While UAVs can cause damage and are a problem, they're still not as serious a threat as nukes and large missiles. Maybe large swarms of UAVs sent together at the very same target (which I don't think has happened yet). But even then, I assume, it's easier and cheaper to protect against.
That depends on the relative cost of use and interception, anf how many the force that uses them has.

That's one of the unreliable polls. The Channel 14 poll I referred in another poll to even claims 34 seats for Likud.
Two more professional polls say 27, although the error margins are extremely high for all and the number of people polled very small for all.
Two of the parties new do not have any platform or a list of candidates, just the leader's named, so including them in a poll at all is laughable.
 
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bjn

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TPP was deeply unpopular with the broader public by the time she opposed it, though Clinton had to be basically bullied into opposing it -- it's exactly the kind of thing she would've advocated for. Broad trade deal, basic rules, etc etc, but there was a lot of concern about more offshoring, not enough teeth on the enforcement mechanisms, and so forth.

But yeah, Trump's certainly not a willing agent of China. He's a willing agent of Russia and unwilling one of China, he's just too stupid to see the latter. Culturally, to the degree that he has any, he's basically just a wannabe Central Asian republic strongman.
The parts of the TPP that allowed investors to sue countries in private courts if countries enacted laws that affected their profits (eg: restricting pollution) was corporate overreach that turned lots of folks against it. Me being one of them.
 

Soriak

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The parts of the TPP that allowed investors to sue countries in private courts if countries enacted laws that affected their profits (eg: restricting pollution) was corporate overreach that turned lots of folks against it. Me being one of them.
Sort of tangential, but "private courts" really just means arbitration, which is the standard for how international disputes are now settled. They level the playing field when, for example, a German company would have to go to a US court to sue a US company: the German company is less familiar with US law, and US judges may be biased toward the American company. On top of that, judges are unlikely to have the expertise to rule on narrow technical issues. Arbitration means you put together an expert panel specifically for a particular issue, with each side nominating some of the panel and the panel collectively choosing an independent judge to preside. Those arbitration rulings then get enforced by national courts around the world. It's really a fantastic system for handling complex issues, especially when you deal with very different legal systems that are more or less developed.

Don't want to link to official Iranian Twitter accounts (or Twitter at all), but it looks like they've issued a fatwa on Trump.
Again? Iran has already tried to assassinate him. Didn't go so well for the previous guy who was orchestrating this (and is no longer around). Probably won't go well for the new guy either. Question is if we need to remember his name or if he won't make it to the end of the week.
 

Gary Patterson

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I keep seeing references to Iran attempting to assassinate Trump but don’t know the story. It seems unlikely, but is there a link I should read?

Also, the fatwa is not a joking matter. It requires all muslims to attend to this (at least to consider it) and promises a reward in heaven for anyone who carries it out. It elevates the threat to Trump up to almost the level of his cholesterol.
 
Again? Iran has already tried to assassinate him. Didn't go so well for the previous guy who was orchestrating this (and is no longer around). Probably won't go well for the new guy either. Question is if we need to remember his name or if he won't make it to the end of the week.

A Fatwa isn't an action of the Iranian state, it's a commandment to the faithful worldwide, to be undertaken by anyone who feels sufficiently motivated to do so.

It is, at the very least, a new permanent headache for the Secret Service.
 

bjn

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A Fatwa isn't an action of the Iranian state, it's a commandment to the faithful worldwide, to be undertaken by anyone who feels sufficiently motivated to do so.

It is, at the very least, a new permanent headache for the Secret Service.
An entirely predicable outcome.
 

Lt_Storm

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The parts of the TPP that allowed investors to sue countries in private courts if countries enacted laws that affected their profits (eg: restricting pollution) was corporate overreach that turned lots of folks against it. Me being one of them.
Also there were some copyright issues which were somewhat problematic towards free computation.
 

Lt_Storm

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I keep seeing references to Iran attempting to assassinate Trump but don’t know the story. It seems unlikely, but is there a link I should read?
There's seems to have been a recent trial of a Pakastani merchant who confused to being coerced into a scheme to assassinate Trump but was foiled well before he could attempt to carry it out. So, it seems there may actually be a there there.
 

dio82

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The parts of the TPP that allowed investors to sue countries in private courts if countries enacted laws that affected their profits (eg: restricting pollution) was corporate overreach that turned lots of folks against it. Me being one of them.
No, that's actually OK and prevents companies and foreigners from being fleeced by arbitrary punishment laws. These courts are a VERY GOOD THING and prevent government overreach. It also doesn't prevent the enactment of restricting pollution laws. It gives foreign businesses a way to recoup (maybe, some) losses incurred through those laws. Which again, is a good thing. If you enact pollution laws, you better got some ass in that drivers seat and confirm that "yes indeed, these pollution laws are worth the expense".

It forces governments to good and high quality governance. Something that is sorely lacking in most countries at most of the times.

I keep seeing references to Iran attempting to assassinate Trump but don’t know the story. It seems unlikely, but is there a link I should read?

Also, the fatwa is not a joking matter. It requires all muslims to attend to this (at least to consider it) and promises a reward in heaven for anyone who carries it out. It elevates the threat to Trump up to almost the level of his cholesterol.
It's irrelevant and unsubstantiated fluff. It is also Iran's right and perogative to toy around with that idea since the US is doing the same to Iran since the declation of "The Axis of EvilTM". This shit cuts both ways, so come down from that high-horse.
 

Ecmaster76

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A Fatwa isn't an action of the Iranian state, it's a commandment to the faithful worldwide, to be undertaken by anyone who feels sufficiently motivated to do so.

It is, at the very least, a new permanent headache for the Secret Service.
It would only be, most likely, Shiites sympathetic to the Iranian mullahs that would pay any attention to it whatsoever but that's still potentially a few million people
 
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It would only be, most likely, Shiites sympathetic to the Iranian mullahs that would pay any attention to it whatsoever but that's still potentially a few million people

Yeah, but the assassination of Khamenei means that's more people than it was last month.

He's more popular dead than he was alive, and not in the Margaret Thatcher kind of way.
 
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Zod

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A Fatwa isn't an action of the Iranian state, it's a commandment to the faithful worldwide, to be undertaken by anyone who feels sufficiently motivated to do so.

It is, at the very least, a new permanent headache for the Secret Service.
Given the Ayatollah, is Shia, I’m guessing Sunnis will ignore his fatwas.
 
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DarthSlack

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First NATO response?


View: https://x.com/sentdefender/status/2030978426266407370?s=20

Launching missiles at a NATO country seems like a new level of stupid. But if they want another 30 countries striking back… sure. Let’s see how long Europe can choose not to be a part of it.


What makes you think the rest of NATO would give a rip? It's likely Turkey would just complain a bit to keep up appearances and then call it a day.

The end result of Trump denigrating NATO for a year is that NATO doesn't really care if US bases gets hit or not.
 

Wheels Of Confusion

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I keep seeing references to Iran attempting to assassinate Trump but don’t know the story. It seems unlikely, but is there a link I should read?

Also, the fatwa is not a joking matter. It requires all muslims to attend to this (at least to consider it) and promises a reward in heaven for anyone who carries it out. It elevates the threat to Trump up to almost the level of his cholesterol.
There was this from 2024 (during the Biden administration):
https://www.npr.org/2024/09/25/nx-s...ut-irans-alleged-threats-to-assassinate-trump
JUANA SUMMERS, HOST:
American intelligence officials briefed former President Donald Trump yesterday on assassination threats against him from Iran. A Trump campaign spokesman says the focus was on, quote, "real and specific threats" against the Republican presidential nominee. NPR justice correspondent Ryan Lucas is here in the studio to tell us more. Hey, Ryan.

RYAN LUCAS, BYLINE: Hi there.

SUMMERS: So Ryan, tell us - what have you learned about what U.S. intelligence officials told the former president and his team yesterday about those alleged threats?

LUCAS: Right. Well, American intelligence officials have confirmed that they did indeed provide a briefing to the former president, but they're not saying anything beyond that. The Trump campaign is saying more, though. Trump campaign spokesman Steven Cheung said that the briefing focused on, as you said at the top, real and specific threats from Iran on Trump's life. He also said that U.S. officials have identified what he calls continued and coordinated attacks that have increased in the past few months and that law enforcement here in the U.S. is working to make sure that Trump is safe and protected.

SUMMERS: And, of course, former President Trump has already been the target of those two assassination attempts. There was the one in July at the rally in Pennsylvania. And then there was another one less than two weeks ago that happened in Florida - any indication that either of those two events was linked to Iran?

LUCAS: At this point, no. Officials say there is no indication of that. The FBI has said that they found no foreign connection with the shooter in Pennsylvania. And so far, at least, the FBI also says it hasn't found any foreign links in the Florida case either. It is still early in that Florida case, but that's what the bureau said so far.
I think it turned out to be this case:
https://www.justice.gov/archives/op...nd-related-charges-against-irgc-asset-and-two
Farhad Shakeri, 51, of Iran; Carlisle Rivera, also known as Pop, 49, of Brooklyn, New York; and Jonathon Loadholt, 36, of Staten Island, New York, were charged today in a criminal complaint in connection with their alleged involvement in a plot to murder a U.S. citizen of Iranian origin in New York. Rivera was arrested in Brooklyn, New York, and Loadholt was arrested in Staten Island, New York, yesterday. Shakeri remains at large and is believed to reside in Iran. Rivera and Loadholt made their initial appearance in the Southern District of New York yesterday and were ordered detained pending trial.

“There are few actors in the world that pose as grave a threat to the national security of the United States as does Iran,” said Attorney General Merrick B. Garland. “The Justice Department has charged an asset of the Iranian regime who was tasked by the regime to direct a network of criminal associates to further Iran’s assassination plots against its targets, including President-elect Donald Trump. We have also charged and arrested two individuals who we allege were recruited as part of that network to silence and kill, on U.S. soil, an American journalist who has been a prominent critic of the regime. We will not stand for the Iranian regime’s attempts to endanger the American people and America’s national security.”

“The charges announced today expose Iran's continued brazen attempts to target U.S. citizens, including President-elect Donald Trump, other government leaders and dissidents who criticize the regime in Tehran,” said FBI Director Christopher Wray. “The Islamic Revolutionary Guard Corps — a designated foreign terrorist organization — has been conspiring with criminals and hitmen to target and gun down Americans on U.S. soil and that simply won’t be tolerated. Thanks to the hard work of the FBI, their deadly schemes were disrupted. We're committed to using the full resources of the FBI to protect our citizens from Iran or any other adversary who targets Americans.”
 

SedsAtArs

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US bases in the Middle East getting hit isn’t an attack on US soil. Turkey getting hit could trigger Section 5 if they called for mutual assistance.
Europe has spent the last four years playing down Russian violations to avoid being dragged into Ukraine. I don't see there being more of an appetite for joining an American elective middle East escapade.
 

dio82

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First NATO response?


View: https://x.com/sentdefender/status/2030978426266407370?s=20

Launching missiles at a NATO country seems like a new level of stupid. But if they want another 30 countries striking back… sure. Let’s see how long Europe can choose not to be a part of it.

irrelevant fluff. NATO didn't care about dozens of Russian drones and Russian terrorist attacks within NATO countries. Why should an errant ballastic missile mov the needle?
 

Shavano

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I think that's probably over-indexing on how much is sincere admiration, how much is willingly doing the bidding, and how much is kompromat, and how much of it is being a fucking idiot with competent regimes running circles around him. I don't think it's profitable to sweat those distinctions.
Yeah this. If someone is able to manipulate him, it barely matters how they're doing it; he becomes their tool. Trump is notoriously susceptible to flattery and bribes. Putin is more than smart enough to have seen that. So assume that.
 

Sajuuk

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China Deploys 30,000-Ton Liaowang-1 “Floating Supercomputer” to Gulf of Oman

In the geopolitically volatile waters of the Gulf of Oman, where global energy corridors intersect with one of the world’s most militarised maritime theatres, China has quietly inserted a 30,000-ton maritime intelligence platform capable of observing the unfolding U.S.–Israel–Iran confrontation without firing a single missile.

The arrival of the Liaowang-1, a next-generation signals intelligence and space-tracking vessel commissioned in 2025, represents a powerful shift in the conflict’s information geometry because the ship’s advanced sensor architecture allows Beijing to watch the entire theatre through a surveillance envelope stretching approximately 6,000 kilometres.

The deployment becomes strategically significant because the vessel is escorted by the People’s Liberation Army Navy’s Type 055 cruiser and Type 052D destroyer, an operational formation that signals China’s determination to protect a high-value intelligence asset positioned within observational range of a live Middle Eastern battlespace.
I’m not sure the extent to which China actually supplied the Iranian regime with advanced equipment, but I am sure Beijing is salivating at the amount of data they can capture from the theater.
 

Shavano

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What makes you think the rest of NATO would give a rip? It's likely Turkey would just complain a bit to keep up appearances and then call it a day.

The end result of Trump denigrating NATO for a year is that NATO doesn't really care if US bases gets hit or not.
Maybe they coordinate with Türkiye to shoot down missiles heading their way.
 

zenparadox

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The parts of the TPP that allowed investors to sue countries in private courts if countries enacted laws that affected their profits (eg: restricting pollution) was corporate overreach that turned lots of folks against it. Me being one of them.
Absolutely, was a total stitch up, lucky it didn't get through.
 

Klinn

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Very true, but those aren't as price sensitive because the value of the resulting goods is a lot higher than the value of the input commodities. Oil as an energy source where you don't really do anything other than transport, refine, and burn it, is far more sensitive.

There too, pharma can deal with the higher prices pretty easily because the value of the resulting goods is far higher than the input commodities. Even in civilized countries with price controls.

Where I'd expect the pinch to be much more worrying is ag.

I worry about the increased cost of transporting all finished goods, food, etc to market. That's something which will impact consumer prices quickly as has been shown in the past.
 
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DarthSlack

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Maybe they coordinate with Türkiye to shoot down missiles heading their way.

I'm sure they do. But the idea that anyone is triggering Section 5 over a few Iranian missiles aimed at bases primarily used by the US is ludicrous. Especially when Trump has been telling NATO to get stuffed since he took office and didn't bother to inform NATO in advance of US attacks on Iran.
 
Yeah this. If someone is able to manipulate him, it barely matters how they're doing it; he becomes their tool. Trump is notoriously susceptible to flattery and bribes. Putin is more than smart enough to have seen that. So assume that.
Dude is 100% at the age and mental capability where if he was a normal person he would get conned out of everything he owned by a Televangelist he saw while channel surfing on a TV.
 

Zod

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Europe has spent the last four years playing down Russian violations to avoid being dragged into Ukraine. I don't see there being more of an appetite for joining an American elective middle East escapade.
Sorry, Europe has been "playing down Russian violations"? Are you familiar with the Trump administration?
 
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SedsAtArs

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Sorry, Europe has been "playing down Russian violations"? Are you familiar with the Trump administration?
I'm saying that whenever there's been Russian missiles in European countries' airspace we've eagerly explained how it doesn't really trigger article 5 because whatever. Same for all the Russian sabotage that's been going on, firebombs on mail planes, internet cables getting trawled, you name it.

Europe is (wisely) not eager to become a participant in a hot war with Russia.
 
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