War with...Iran?

concernUrsus

Wise, Aged Ars Veteran
862
Oh, and let me take this analysis one step further: I would argue that the ideas driving Netanyahu to believe this is a good idea are essentially the exact same set of neo-conservative ideas that led Bush to decide that Afghanistan and Iraq were good ideas. If those ideas sucked then, then they surely suck now.

It is still a good idea in a way? For a lot of leaders, breaking and weaken their geopolitical enemies is the goal itself. In this sense, Iran is a lot weaker now. The human cost to Iran or even to their own citizens (Israeli, Americans, etc.) are just cost of business for these people. If the Iran people end up infighting, that is totally fine for these people.

To be even more blunt, the mistakes may be that Bush believed USA has the resource and the will to change a country culture. It may have been more "profitable" to bomb the places and just leave them in ruin.

The "right way" is supposed to do it through trade and interaction, and hope for "win, win" situation. However, that also do not always turn out the way the West wants it either. Russia kind of goes crazy. China becomes an adversary. Granted, I think a lot of problems with Russia and China have a lot to do with what the "West" considered "win, win" as well.
 

Lt_Storm

Ars Tribunus Angusticlavius
20,019
Subscriptor++
It is still a good idea in a way? For a lot of leaders, breaking and weaken their geopolitical enemies is the goal itself. In this sense, Iran is a lot weaker now. The human cost to Iran or even to their own citizens (Israeli, Americans, etc.) are just cost of business for these people. If the Iran people end up infighting, that is totally fine for these people.

To be even more blunt, the mistakes may be that Bush believed USA has the resource and the will to change a country culture. It may have been more "profitable" to bomb the places and just leave them in ruin.

The "right way" is supposed to do it through trade and interaction, and hope for "win, win" situation. However, that also do not always turn out the way the West wants it either. Russia kind of goes crazy. China becomes an adversary. Granted, I think a lot of problems with Russia and China have a lot to do with what the "West" considered "win, win" as well.

Well, that's definitely a better argument than the idea this is, somehow, going to make Iran into a nicer place to live. But, I don't think it works out properly for two reasons: first, if you end up with a replacement same as the old, well, they aren't busy with infighting anymore. And, second, if they are infighting in that way, that's hardly the kind of thing that national borders contain. They will still be your enemy and they will still be well prepared to engage in terrorist attacks against your people.

Frankly, outside of direct military conflict, I'm not sure that these ideas of "strength" and "weakness" have any real meaning. I mean, if the risk were that Iran were going to march an army down Israel's throat, then, yes, that argument makes perfect sense. But, let's be honest here, the risk didn't look like that. Instead, the risk was things like Iran deciding to support some terrorist group or encouraging others in the area to fight. And I don't foresee those problems being resolved by a power vacuum in Iran.

In the first case, now those terrorist groups will likely be able to operate directly from Iran using Iranian resources. And, to the second one, well, every single one of those internal factions is going to have objectives which are easiest met by causing friction between and aligning with various neighboring powers. So, the main difference there seems to be more cooks stirring the pot. And you know what too many cooks do to a broth.
 

wrylachlan

Ars Legatus Legionis
14,873
Subscriptor
And has that antipersonnel warfare won the Ukraine war for either side yet?

Bombing Ukraine has hardened its resistance against Russia. As always happens, especially when civilian collateral casualties occur.
The difference here is that the US and Israel should have absolute and total air superiority - something neither side has in the Ukraine - Russian war. Air superiority allows you a wealth of tactics that are simply unavailable without it.

Add to that the fact that Russian satellites are shit and we’re not giving Ukraine the good stuff. In other words, in addition to air superiority, the battlefield visibility in Iran is dramatically different than the Ukraine-Russian war.

Lastly, the Russian bombing in Ukraine is intentionally targeting civilians in a hugely wrongheaded attempt at demoralization. As you point out, all it’s done is harden Ukrainian resistance. Now the US/Israel may try this approach but I don’t think that’s likely. There will for sure be misses and collateral damage, but I don’t see the US intentionally bombing civilians the way Russia does.

—-
None of this means that the American strategy will work. It sure seems like folly to me. But the comparison to Ukraine is way off base in my opinion.
 
some firebrand who decides that if they're all going to be bombed to death by the USA anyway they should load up absolutely every missile and drone still in inventory, point them all at Tel Aviv and Jerusalem and launch as fast as they are able?
Presumably that's what Iran has been trying to do over the past two days, without much success.
In the 2025 attacks their air defenses were degraded substantially, along with their launch capabilities and stockpiles. And now, the initial attack has destroyed even more of it. The number of enemy aircraft operating over there almost freely is perhaps twice or more what it was in 2025 (perhaps 200+ US, plus 200 Israeli?). As far as missiles and drones are concerned, I don't think Iran has much left up its sleeves.

You did read about the girl's school, yes?
People are too quick to believe Iranian media releases. I didn't see yet any real confirmation or details from reliable sources.
 

Lt_Storm

Ars Tribunus Angusticlavius
20,019
Subscriptor++
You’ve obviously not read my post or are just ignorant of current events. See the Russian-Ukrainian war for clues on how terribly effective antipersonnel drone warfare is.
Frankly, there is a world of difference between tactical bombing and strategic bombing. Bombing the enemy's second artillery division during a critical engagement can easily turn the outcome of that battle. Bombing an enemy's ball barring plant in hopes that it will prevent him from making tanks is useless. The further you get from the former and the closer you get to the latter the less benefit there is to gain. Which isn't to say strategic bombing is never useful, bombing resupply convoys, for instance, could have an outsized impact. Much the same can be said for bombing equipment reserves. Hell, there's even benefit to bombing a tank factory. But, bombing the enemy's leadership and expecting a victory is none of those things.

And yet, in spite of the repeated failures, there's always some military analysis indicating that the future of war will be entirely airborne and there is no further need for a conventional army to have engagements. The reality is that this particular engagement shows few of the demonstrated benefits of drone use in Ukraine and every echo of those earlier claims.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Spunjji
I'm still entirely torn on how to feel feel about the US attacks on Iran.
When one evaluates one’s support for something, one has to ask what the end goal of that thing one supports is. I don’t think there’s a moral, legal, strategic, or tactical reason for this attack, other than to shore up Dondald Trump’s delusion of being a strong-man.

Therefore, while I won’t cry any crocodile tears for the Khomeinis of the world, I am implacably opposed to this. And that judgement was easy to come by.
 

Lt_Storm

Ars Tribunus Angusticlavius
20,019
Subscriptor++
People are too quick to believe Iranian media releases. I didn't see yet any real confirmation or details from reliable sources.

So, this is somewhat grizzly subject matter, the video doesn't show anything too grizzly, but, still, viewer discretion is strongly advised (so, perhaps don't click the next link, you have been warned). But, CNN has analysis of videos from the scene. Suffice it to say: yes, there was a school there, yes, there has been an explosion in that school, yes, there are classroom materials and backpacks mixed into the debris.

Now, of course, it's very likely that this is collateral damage, after all, the neighboring complex is military in nature, And there was a time when it wasn't obviously separate from that complex, though, it is in recent satellite imagery. But, that sort of goes to the underlying thesis at hand here: at large scale, even targeted bombings are not so precise that one can reliably make statements like "we're not bombing women". The reality is that, just because roughly 50% of the population is female, if you drop a significant number of bombs somewhere, you will bomb women.
 

Lt_Storm

Ars Tribunus Angusticlavius
20,019
Subscriptor++
Oh, and also, the locals are incredibly unlikely to care that you really really did not want to bomb women when you bombed them none-the-less. As a result of this kind of shit, even when you do the job "well", bombings just aren't going to reduce the support of the locals for their government.
 

Macam

Ars Tribunus Militum
2,211
When one evaluates one’s support for something, one has to ask what the end goal of that thing one supports is. I don’t think there’s a moral, legal, strategic, or tactical reason for this attack, other than to shore up Dondald Trump’s delusion of being a strong-man.

Therefore, while I won’t cry any crocodile tears for the Khomeinis of the world, I am implacably opposed to this. And that judgement was easy to come by.

Social media being what it is, there was a poignant take that was reposted from godknowswhere that adequately sums up what I think a fair number of people may be thinking:

Screenshot 2026-03-01 at 5.12.51 PM.png
 
Anything's possible, but for now I'm not convinced.
Particularly the details: how many killed, why (maybe a failed Iranian missile?), when.
What does it mean to not be convinced about “how many” and “when?” Those are details where there might be some imprecision but they don’t really change the overall meaning of the story.
 

Gary Patterson

Ars Tribunus Angusticlavius
7,712
Subscriptor

llanitedave

Ars Tribunus Angusticlavius
7,810
There’s seems like a different without much of a distinction. At the end of the day, 3 people are dead, their families ripped apart, and for what? A bunch of nothing, with no plan, no follow thru, no anything. I’m not going to get upset about the distinction on the reporting.

Three Americans are dead. A vastly larger number of people are dead as a result of this. But no amount of deaths will be too many, as long as Trump can distract from Epstein.
 

iPilot05

Ars Praefectus
3,786
Subscriptor++
Worth remembering : the US has many schools on military bases as well. Don’t get suckered into the “human shield” discussion without being aware the US does exactly the same thing. Maybe it’s not about using children as shields in Iran either.

https://www.militaryonesource.mil/e...ilable-to-children-on-military-installations/
I mean, in both examples it's the ultimate fault of the people who put the school in harms way. Its not like the US or Israel just blatantly aimed at schoolchildren. There isn't even any evidence that the ordinance flew off course. What it it DOES sound like is there was a packed school deliberately placed on top of a very important military target. I feel sorry for the kids who had nothing to do with any of this but the anger needs to be directed at Iran.

If you want to talk about deliberately killing kids, pregnant women and infirm, send your outrage to Moscow.
 
What does it mean to not be convinced about “how many” and “when?” Those are details where there might be some imprecision but they don’t really change the overall meaning of the story.
It does matter.

So far, it somewhat smells like the Hamas playbook.
A possible scenario: A failed Iranian missile. 12 people died, 4 are children.
News story: "US/Israel bombed school, 150 children dead!"

I don't think there's enough reliable information yet to say what really happened.

if they are infighting in that way, that's hardly the kind of thing that national borders contain. They will still be your enemy and they will still be well prepared to engage in terrorist attacks against your people.
The main concern isn't terrorist attacks (especially with no shared borders), but rather nukes and missiles.
Whatever the result of the war now, and even if the government doesn't fall, Iran is going to be much more crippled in both fields.
Also less funds available to send to Hezbollah and the Houthis.
And a bonus, degraded Iranian manufacturing capabilities might also harm Russia's war.
 
Last edited:

Technarch

Ars Legatus Legionis
14,932
Subscriptor
I mean, in both examples it's the ultimate fault of the people who put the school in harms way.

Yeah, fuck those guys.

1772417838409.png


Anything's possible, but for now I'm not convinced.
Particularly the details: how many killed, why (maybe a failed Iranian missile?), when.

Remind me why the Iranians were firing missiles again?
 

iPilot05

Ars Praefectus
3,786
Subscriptor++
Yeah, fuck those guys.
I mean, that's precisely my point. I think the US gets a slight pass since it's essentially inconceivable that there would be, in the modern age, a strike on Pearl Harbor. If it comes to that then basically nobody on Oahu would be considered safe. But still I'm not exactly going to say the aggressor is intentionally bombing children if they're firing on Pearl Harbor. That's simply the name of the game with warfare. This school was in even closer proximity to a military installation. If Iran was really concerned about those kids and given their dicey geopolitical situation in the last 50 years, there should never have been civilians anywhere near that site.

Schools on US bases is a matter of convenience given the relative low risk. For Iran, human shields by design.
 

Macam

Ars Tribunus Militum
2,211
NYT: Trump Short Interview

Trump said that they initially intended to bombard Iran for 4-5 weeks.

The rest of the meandering shows there's no real plan although he mentions how much he loved the result of Venezuela.

Considering nothing's really changed in Venezuela, that speaks volumes.
 

llanitedave

Ars Tribunus Angusticlavius
7,810
I mean, that's precisely my point. I think the US gets a slight pass since it's essentially inconceivable that there would be, in the modern age, a strike on Pearl Harbor. If it comes to that then basically nobody on Oahu would be considered safe. But still I'm not exactly going to say the aggressor is intentionally bombing children if they're firing on Pearl Harbor. That's simply the name of the game with warfare. This school was in even closer proximity to a military installation. If Iran was really concerned about those kids and given their dicey geopolitical situation in the last 50 years, there should never have been civilians anywhere near that site.

Schools on US bases is a matter of convenience given the relative low risk. For Iran, human shields by design.
If we do it, it's ok and reasonable. If they do it, it's a deliberate war crime.
 

concernUrsus

Wise, Aged Ars Veteran
862
I mean, that's precisely my point. I think the US gets a slight pass since it's essentially inconceivable that there would be, in the modern age, a strike on Pearl Harbor. If it comes to that then basically nobody on Oahu would be considered safe. But still I'm not exactly going to say the aggressor is intentionally bombing children if they're firing on Pearl Harbor. That's simply the name of the game with warfare. This school was in even closer proximity to a military installation. If Iran was really concerned about those kids and given their dicey geopolitical situation in the last 50 years, there should never have been civilians anywhere near that site.

Schools on US bases is a matter of convenience given the relative low risk. For Iran, human shields by design.

Is it by design though? I am unfamiliar of Iran base design. I always assume school would be very common for military families. Also, the missiles have flew a very long distance, i would not be surprised that it malfunctioned or get knock off its path by defense system.
 

Lt_Storm

Ars Tribunus Angusticlavius
20,019
Subscriptor++
The main concern isn't terrorist attacks (especially with no shared borders), but rather nukes and missiles.
Whatever the result of the war now, and even if the government doesn't fall, Iran is going to be much more crippled in both fields.
Also less funds available to send to Hezbollah and the Houthis.
And a bonus, degraded Iranian manufacturing capabilities might also harm Russia's war.

Anyone who thinks Iranian nukes were ever a serious threat was severely misinformed. After all, the calculus of the aggressive use of nukes is the same for Iran as it is for any country: use nukes get bombed out of existence. Nobody is going to mess with that balance of power because the cost of it failing is the existence of our society itself, all society itself really: American society, Iranian society, Russian society, Chinese society, all of it and more. We would all agree to burn Iran to the ground if their leaders ever made that choice and everybody knows it. The only time it really makes sense to use nukes is when you are dead anyway.

As for other missiles, well, now we are talking about terrorism. As for Hezbollah and the Houthis, that's more terrorism. So, yes, I stand by the idea that the main threat was terrorism and that said threat is hardly reduced by this. The reality of the matter is that there is little chance this makes the region safer.

That said, at least I suppose I might be able to draw a little comfort for how this affects Russia's war, as distant and relatively minor as those effects are likely to be. (See recent discussion on the relative futility of strategic bombing for why I don't find this particularly comforting).

I mean, that's precisely my point. I think the US gets a slight pass since it's essentially inconceivable that there would be, in the modern age, a strike on Pearl Harbor. If it comes to that then basically nobody on Oahu would be considered safe. But still I'm not exactly going to say the aggressor is intentionally bombing children if they're firing on Pearl Harbor. That's simply the name of the game with warfare. This school was in even closer proximity to a military installation. If Iran was really concerned about those kids and given their dicey geopolitical situation in the last 50 years, there should never have been civilians anywhere near that site.

Schools on US bases is a matter of convenience given the relative low risk. For Iran, human shields by design.

Yes, because I'm sure that the Iranian military authorities are the ones who decided that was a good place to put a school. After all, protection of military assets is typically a consideration for education officials.

Frankly, if you wouldn't say that of a school on a military base in America, you shouldn't say it of one near a military base in Iran without something substantial to implicate the decision. The reality is that the idea that the left hand even noticed what the right hand was doing in this situation is mostly unbelievable. So, you know, extraordinary claims extraordinary evidence.
 

Justin Credible

Ars Tribunus Angusticlavius
8,039
Subscriptor++
Just FYI.
The bombing campaigns of the Vietnam War were the longest and heaviest aerial bombardment in history. The United States Air Force, the U. S. Navy, and U. S. Marine Corps aviation dropped 7,662,000 tons of explosives. By comparison, U. S. forces dropped a total of 2,150,000 tons of bombs in all theaters of World War II.

And that was for 10 years. We didn't get Germany to surrender until the Russian's boots were on the streets of Berlin.

This is not going to end well. There are lot of fanatics out there waiting to get their freak on.

In regards to your last sentence it's the fanatics that scare me that this is going to bring about trumps own 9/11.
 

Gary Patterson

Ars Tribunus Angusticlavius
7,712
Subscriptor
Schools on US bases is a matter of convenience given the relative low risk. For Iran, human shields by design.
The US knew there was a school there and still decided it was better to kill everyone in it to get the adjacent military base. There’s no blaming bad intel or an accidental hit, this was a deliberate choice made by the US military. Maybe some people feel it’s justified. After all, what’s a hundred or so children in Iran worth? Their answer, by their actions, is “Nothing at all.”

This is war and so atrocities are to expected. But on the first day?
 

Technarch

Ars Legatus Legionis
14,932
Subscriptor
The US knew there was a school there and still decided it was better to kill everyone in it to get the adjacent military base. There’s no blaming bad intel or an accidental hit, this was a deliberate choice made by the US military. Maybe some people feel it’s justified. After all, what’s a hundred or so children in Iran worth? Their answer, by their actions, is “Nothing at all.”

This is war and so atrocities are to expected. But on the first day?

Not to defend the US, but it might have been an IDF strike that hit the school. It would be consistent with their 'tactics' in Gaza.
 

Lt_Storm

Ars Tribunus Angusticlavius
20,019
Subscriptor++
Not to defend the US, but it might have been an IDF strike that hit the school. It would be consistent with their 'tactics' in Gaza.
And, if it were the United States, I would suspect that it is a mistake, after all, the US military has learned about how this kind of failing is actually a disaster a time or two. That said, with Trump in charge, I suppose it's possible that everyone who learned that lesson has found themselves out a job.
 
Three Americans are dead. A vastly larger number of people are dead as a result of this. But no amount of deaths will be too many, as long as Trump can distract from Epstein.
I keep seeing this argument as if some revelation in the Epstein files is going to be the thing that finally turns MAGA against Trump and sinks his presidency.

At this point, I believe MAGA is solidly behind Trump no matter what, and his following is only growing, not shrinking. This isn't 1974 where a scandal can topple an administration (certainly not this one).
 

Lt_Storm

Ars Tribunus Angusticlavius
20,019
Subscriptor++
I keep seeing this argument as if some revelation in the Epstein files is going to be the thing that finally turns MAGA against Trump and sinks his presidency.

At this point, I believe MAGA is solidly behind Trump no matter what, and his following is only growing, not shrinking. This isn't 1974 where a scandal can topple an administration (certainly not this one).

Why not both? Just because he actually had MAGA firmly in hand doesn't mean he isn't terrified that they are going to decide they don't like him. He's a narcissist, that kind of fear is what drives his existence. So, the idea that he desperately wants to distract people from the Epstein files works regardless of what they are actually likely to mean to MAGA adherents.
 
Remind me why the Iranians were firing missiles again?
There's not enough real info yet, so the whole discussion is premature. But if the hypothetical is that it was indeed a failed Iranian missile...
It was fired because Iran was trying to keep alive its nuclear program, missile program, government, and thereby advance its Islamic goals?
 

Thank You and Best of Luck!

Ars Legatus Legionis
20,999
Subscriptor
It is still a good idea in a way? For a lot of leaders, breaking and weaken their geopolitical enemies is the goal itself. In this sense, Iran is a lot weaker now. The human cost to Iran or even to their own citizens (Israeli, Americans, etc.) are just cost of business for these people. If the Iran people end up infighting, that is totally fine for these people.
Throwing the Strait of Hormuz into chaos is a terrible plan no matter what’s happening inside Iran. If the U.S. can’t ensure security through the straight, then things are going to be an absolute clusterf*ck for global finance and trade.

The good news I guess is that Pam Bondi and Trump can be dragged in front of Congress now that the Dow is definitely going to be below 50,000.
 

concernUrsus

Wise, Aged Ars Veteran
862
Throwing the Strait of Hormuz into chaos is a terrible plan no matter what’s happening inside Iran. If the U.S. can’t ensure security through the straight, then things are going to be an absolute clusterf*ck for global finance and trade.

The good news I guess is that Pam Bondi and Trump can be dragged in front of Congress now that the Dow is definitely going to be below 50,000.

Not that I disagree with you, but so far Iran feels like a paper tiger. It is very possible that Iran won't have the ability to lock down the Strait of Hormuz. It still a high risk, no/low reward situation though. The reward is mostly for Trump and Israeli leaders to claim their strongmen image.
 
  • Wow
Reactions: Bardon

Technarch

Ars Legatus Legionis
14,932
Subscriptor
There's not enough real info yet, so the whole discussion is premature. But if the hypothetical is that it was indeed a failed Iranian missile...
It was fired because Iran was trying to keep alive its nuclear program, missile program, government, and thereby advance its Islamic goals?

That's an impressive knot. Truly you have a dizzying intellect. :)
 

terrydactyl

Ars Tribunus Angusticlavius
7,871
Subscriptor
I mean, that's precisely my point. I think the US gets a slight pass since it's essentially inconceivable that there would be, in the modern age, a strike on Pearl Harbor. If it comes to that then basically nobody on Oahu would be considered safe. But still I'm not exactly going to say the aggressor is intentionally bombing children if they're firing on Pearl Harbor. That's simply the name of the game with warfare. This school was in even closer proximity to a military installation. If Iran was really concerned about those kids and given their dicey geopolitical situation in the last 50 years, there should never have been civilians anywhere near that site.

Schools on US bases is a matter of convenience given the relative low risk. For Iran, human shields by design.
That quite a "No true Scotsman" argument.
 

Thank You and Best of Luck!

Ars Legatus Legionis
20,999
Subscriptor
Not that I disagree with you, but so far Iran feels like a paper tiger. It is very possible that Iran won't have the ability to lock down the Strait of Hormuz. It still a high risk, no/low reward situation though. The reward is mostly for Trump and Israeli leaders to claim their strongmen image.
That’s not how any of this works. Iran doesn’t have to “lock it down”. The U.S. does.

All Iran has to do is be enough of a problem in the shipping lanes to make cargo ships transiting the strait basically uninsurable or crazy expensive to insure.

That’s the problem. The U.S. has created a situation where its performance has to be basically perfect and damn quick too, while all Iran has to do is be a persistent nuisance. I know which of those I’d put money on to succeed at their role.
 

Lt_Storm

Ars Tribunus Angusticlavius
20,019
Subscriptor++
Not that I disagree with you, but so far Iran feels like a paper tiger. It is very possible that Iran won't have the ability to lock down the Strait of Hormuz. It still a high risk, no/low reward situation though. The reward is mostly for Trump and Israeli leaders to claim their strongmen image.
I'm not sure that achievement requires stability, indeed, it seems to be that sufficient instability might achieve the goal just as well.
 
Anyone who thinks Iranian nukes were ever a serious threat was severely misinformed. After all, the calculus of the aggressive use of nukes is the same for Iran as it is for any country: use nukes get bombed out of existence. Nobody is going to mess with that balance of power because the cost of it failing is the existence of our society itself, all society itself really: American society, Iranian society, Russian society, Chinese society, all of it and more. We would all agree to burn Iran to the ground if their leaders ever made that choice and everybody knows it. The only time it really makes sense to use nukes is when you are dead anyway.

As for other missiles, well, now we are talking about terrorism. As for Hezbollah and the Houthis, that's more terrorism. So, yes, I stand by the idea that the main threat was terrorism and that said threat is hardly reduced by this. The reality of the matter is that there is little chance this makes the region safer.

That said, at least I suppose I might be able to draw a little comfort for how this affects Russia's war, as distant and relatively minor as those effects are likely to be. (See recent discussion on the relative futility of strategic bombing for why I don't find this particularly comforting).



Yes, because I'm sure that the Iranian military authorities are the ones who decided that was a good place to put a school. After all, protection of military assets is typically a consideration for education officials.

Frankly, if you wouldn't say that of a school on a military base in America, you shouldn't say it of one near a military base in Iran without something substantial to implicate the decision. The reality is that the idea that the left hand even noticed what the right hand was doing in this situation is mostly unbelievable. So, you know, extraordinary claims extraordinary evidence.
MAD requires both sides to believe that total destruction of their own country is, you know, a bad thing to be avoided at all costs.

Which for a rational actor, is almost certainly true.

This begins to fall apart when we consider the perspective of the suicide bomber.. they’re willing to wipe themselves off the map to attack their adversary. Does that mentality scale up to where leaders of a country are willing to sacrifice the entire nation? Probably not.. but the answer is not as clear as before.

And there’s also the danger of WMD strikes being outsourced to proxy groups.. who may have different risk calculus.. while offering at least a veneer of deniability to their patron. Does Israel/US nuke Tehran if Hamas nukes Tel Aviv?

I don’t want to find out the answer to that question.
 

Lt_Storm

Ars Tribunus Angusticlavius
20,019
Subscriptor++
MAD requires both sides to believe that total destruction of their own country is, you know, a bad thing to be avoided at all costs.

Which for a rational actor, is almost certainly true.

This begins to fall apart when we consider the perspective of the suicide bomber.. they’re willing to wipe themselves off the map to attack their adversary. Does that mentality scale up to where leaders of a country are willing to sacrifice the entire nation? Probably not.. but the answer is not as clear as before.

Suicide bombers are the tools of the rich and powerful, the rich and powerful have plenty of survival instinct.

And there’s also the danger of WMD strikes being outsourced to proxy groups.. who may have different risk calculus.. while offering at least a veneer of deniability to their patron. Does Israel/US nuke Tehran if Hamas nukes Tel Aviv?

I don’t want to find out the answer to that question.
That one's more a problem of proliferation in general. And, at this point, that's a ship that has thoroughly left the harbor, especially given that all the arms control tattoos are currently experts and nobody seems interested in negotiating new ones. Honestly, I suspect this will just be used as further reason for most nations to decide possession of nuclear arms is the only protection in this world.
 
Last edited:
  • Like
Reactions: Bardon

Crolis

Ars Legatus Legionis
20,059
Subscriptor
This need to defend the US and blame Iran for the school thing when we are actively bombing them in an unprovoked act of aggression is weird. Everyone who dies in this conflict is on the US and Israel. Incidentally why many of us are and were against this war of aggression despite believing the Iranian regime is evil. We have a lot of blood on our hands already and much more to come sounds like. If you somehow support this shit, go ahead and get used to the red stains.