Sound familiar? Song lyrics have gotten more repetitive since the 1970s.

I caught up with an old friend last weekend who has been writing death metal (and releasing albums) for decades. He is the bass player, singer and lyricist so I asked him about writing lyrics. The conversation was hilarious, because basically his theory is that simple, childlike phrases and concepts are the way the to go. i.e. Dylan he is not.

Not repetitive though
 
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Well, the idea of music genres is dying these days. I wouldn't even know how to genre-classify half of my liked songs from this year. Tags are more useful; what instruments are in it, what is the rhythm/pace like, what's the vibe it gives, etc.

For what you're talking about probably some sort of -wave, based on the description.
Where and how are you listening? I find that specialisation is really happening a lot. Tons of old (sub) genres are coming back, like Drum and Bass, and Post Punk for example. Pop has always been ludicrously generic and non-genre specific, but most of the other genres go through ups and down IME
 
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Hmnhntr

Ars Scholae Palatinae
3,330
Where and how are you listening? I find that specialisation is really happening a lot. Tons of old (sub) genres are coming back, like Drum and Bass, and Post Punk for example. Pop has always been ludicrously generic and non-genre specific, but most of the other genres go through ups and down IME
Mostly through Spotify these days? I also use YouTube to find smaller artists. And I listen around to what my friends and family are listening to. I can agree about Pop, but I also feel like that's often the point- I don't listen to Pop to hear something complex or deep; I listen to it to dance or jam out, often when I'm tired or upset.

I don't check out what Spotify directly recommends too often; I usually look for key words or most of all I go to a song I like and use the "Song radio" option to get stuff more like it and repeat until I'm satisfied. But for me, I like everything basically. So genres feel conceptually limiting to me. My favorite songs are usually ones that mix genres; Dan Bull's I'm Heading Out is a sea shanty rap, Melody Fall's Remember the Name is a metal cover of rap song, etc. And what genre would something like Indifferent or Give A Little by LeGrand fall under? I think genres only go through ups and downs if you're following the same bands for long periods. I've never been at a loss for good music (or at least music I like) in any genre, personally.

Not really sure what you mean by 'how' I'm listening, but I hope this gave some insight?
 
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Mostly through Spotify these days? I also use YouTube to find smaller artists. And I listen around to what my friends and family are listening to. I can agree about Pop, but I also feel like that's often the point- I don't listen to Pop to hear something complex or deep; I listen to it to dance or jam out, often when I'm tired or upset.

I don't check out what Spotify directly recommends too often; I usually look for key words or most of all I go to a song I like and use the "Song radio" option to get stuff more like it and repeat until I'm satisfied. But for me, I like everything basically. So genres feel conceptually limiting to me. My favorite songs are usually ones that mix genres; Dan Bull's I'm Heading Out is a sea shanty rap, Melody Fall's Remember the Name is a metal cover of rap song, etc. And what genre would something like Indifferent or Give A Little by LeGrand fall under? I think genres only go through ups and downs if you're following the same bands for long periods. I've never been at a loss for good music (or at least music I like) in any genre, personally.
That's what I was thinking. Spotify follows the same model as the other social media platforms:

"here's what you've listened to with some variations, here are some filters if you insist"

I'm not listening to nearly enough new music at the moment, but when I do I tend to listen to streaming radio stations that I like.

Saying that, I find that live shows is really the way to go to hear what's happening out there. At least locally.

I bounced off Spotify. Not because I'm some purist or whatever. I just prefer the randomness of the radio DJs. That being said, they are probably using Spotify as there playlist generator LOL
 
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mknelson

Ars Scholae Palatinae
1,226
Can we make any parallels of Roman or British Empire pop tunes in the days of waning empires, respectively?
The problem with that analysis is that the decline of the British Empire took over a century. It would encompass everything from Georgian and Victorian ditties up to the British Invasion.
 
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Hmnhntr

Ars Scholae Palatinae
3,330
That's what I was thinking. Spotify follows the same model as the other social media platforms:

"here's what you've listened to with some variations, here are some filters if you insist"

I'm not listening to nearly enough new music at the moment, but when I do I tend to listen to streaming radio stations that I like.

Saying that, I find that live shows is really the way to go to hear what's happening out there. At least locally.

I bounced off Spotify. Not because I'm some purist or whatever. I just prefer the randomness of the radio DJs. That being said, they are probably using Spotify as there playlist generator LOL
Really? I used to listen to a lot of radio, but I felt like they were always too samey- too focused on stuff that was popular. Listening for a week and hearing the same 3 'classics' or 'hits', only 1 of which I really like just didn't do it for me. And like I said, I tend to bounce off of Spotify's direct suggestions, because I only want a handful of songs that sound one way- new music is usually serendipity for me.

As for live shows, I dunno. They're so hard to find, or at least they seem to be for me. Never been a 'live music' guy except for bands I really love. Extremely unpopular opinion, but it just feels like listening to a less clean version of the song with extra background noise, usually in a stuffy and crowded room. I can get into it every once in a while, but I can't imagine live music being the main way I listened to anything...
 
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The lyric changes sre easily observable... When postmodern jukebox or someone like Morgan James does a cover of a modern tune... They get boring as the words are the same. They are much more interesting when they cover 80's and older songs.

Not sure what'll real us out of this musical tailspin, but folks are seeing it and gobbling up old music... The modern covers are great, but new tunes that are catchy and have limited repeating lyrics are few and far between. I suppose I could try to blame Taylor Swift, but she's the product of this, not the cause.
 
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Really? I used to listen to a lot of radio, but I felt like they were always too samey- too focused on stuff that was popular. Listening for a week and hearing the same 3 'classics' or 'hits', only 1 of which I really like just didn't do it for me. And like I said, I tend to bounce off of Spotify's direct suggestions, because I only want a handful of songs that sound one way- new music is usually serendipity for me.

As for live shows, I dunno. They're so hard to find, or at least they seem to be for me. Never been a 'live music' guy except for bands I really love. Extremely unpopular opinion, but it just feels like listening to a less clean version of the song with extra background noise, usually in a stuffy and crowded room. I can get into it every once in a while, but I can't imagine live music being the main way I listened to anything...
Oh I know. Main stream commercial radio is hellish. Independent or government funded stations are a good foil for those horror shows. Here in Melbourne the main gotos for me are

Triple RRR (local independent)
PBS (local independent)
Double JJ (ABC/Government no ads)
Tripe JJJ (ABC/Government no ads)

Loads of new music. Lots of focus on local artists, but tons of up and coming international stuff, and even the occasional pop song

As for live music? I've played guitar for more than 30 years so I love to go see bands and see artists going sick. I also like the tribal vibe of a good crowd. I also love having a good stomp to rock and dance as well. I love seeing DJs as well, but that is mainly the crowd vibe and dancing my (now very old) ass off
 
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The problem with that analysis is that the decline of the British Empire took over a century. It would encompass everything from Georgian and Victorian ditties up to the British Invasion.
and the fall of the Roman Empire took around 1000 years. Any modern comparisons to the Roman empire are almost always ludicrous. See Shaun's great video:


View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WqCCx4wj79o
 
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Wheels Of Confusion

Ars Legatus Legionis
76,140
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I caught up with an old friend last weekend who has been writing death metal (and releasing albums) for decades. He is the bass player, singer and lyricist so I asked him about writing lyrics. The conversation was hilarious, because basically his theory is that simple, childlike phrases and concepts are the way the to go. i.e. Dylan he is not.

Not repetitive though
BTW, Jakob Dylan is also a superlative lyricist.

 
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Hmnhntr

Ars Scholae Palatinae
3,330
Oh I know. Main stream commercial radio is hellish. Independent or government funded stations are a good foil for those horror shows. Here in Melbourne the main gotos for me are

Triple RRR (local independent)
PBS (local independent)
Double JJ (ABC/Government no ads)
Tripe JJJ (ABC/Government no ads)

Loads of new music. Lots of focus on local artists, but tons of up and coming international stuff, and even the occasional pop song

As for live music? I've played guitar for more than 30 years so I love to go see bands and see artists going sick. I also like the tribal vibe of a good crowd. I also love having a good stomp to rock and dance as well. I love seeing DJs as well, but that is mainly the crowd vibe and dancing my (now very old) ass off
Fair point on crowd vibes; I'm just a pretty asocial person, so they're usually a lot for me. And I guess I don't really have an appreciation for the craft aspect; not diminishing it, but for me it's just about if the end result sounds good. Like, I've always hated the criticism that electronic music "doesn't take enough skill" because you don't have to play an instrument.

I live in Texas, near Dallas. Supposedly there is a good music scene here, but a lot of it is word-of-mouth, so it's invisible to me.
 
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I live in Texas, near Dallas. Supposedly there is a good music scene here, but a lot of it is word-of-mouth, so it's invisible to me.
I have heard the Texas music scene (I know it is a big generalisation) is brilliant. Hopefully one day I will zoom back to the US and go see some shows! (Europe this year first)
 
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Hmnhntr

Ars Scholae Palatinae
3,330
I have heard the Texas music scene (I know it is a big generalisation) is brilliant. Hopefully one day I will zoom back to the US and go see some shows! (Europe this year first)
I've heard the same thing, I just have no idea how people know about local shows. The only ones advertised online are when big bands pass through.
 
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cgo_12345

Ars Scholae Palatinae
974
It's all boring snow flake music today. Fifty years from now it will not be relevant like what was produced from the sixties up to the early nineties ( Pre rock group Nivana )
At least you used the term "snowflake" so nobody has to waste time taking you seriously.
 
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Blaspheme

Ars Scholae Palatinae
1,406
What can lyrics tell us about different genres and eras? Results for the first analysis showed that certain characteristics are most important across genres, including repeated lines, choruses, and emotional language. The genres in which emotion was most important were country and R&B.

You have to wonder how fine-grained the genre analysis was if the research didn't discover that the genre in which emotion is most important is emo ...

:rimshot:

It's trivial to find counterpoint to the 'modern music is less lyrically complex' meme. Take some emo, like La Dispute's All Our Bruised Bodies and the Whole Heart Shrinks (2011) which as is typical for their songs eschews chorus entirely, and simply presents five verses before repeating lines in the sixth and the outtro.

[Verse 1]
So now tell me how your story goes
Have you ever suffered?
If so, did you get better or have you never quite recovered from it?
Did you find your lover laying in your bedroom with another and then
Did you let it hover over you and everything else well after the fact?

[Verse 2]
Show me all your bruises. I know everybody wears them
They broadcast the pain - how you hurt, how you reacted
Did cancer take your child?
Did your father have a heart attack?
Have you had a moment force the whole heart to grow or retract?
Or just shrink?
Does the heart shrink?

[Verse 3]
Tell me everything
Tell me everything you know
Were you told as a child how cruel the whole world could be?
Did anybody ever tell you that?
Tell me what your purpose is
Who it was that put you here and why?
Did anybody really put you here at all?
And what of those necessities?
Like how to cope with tragedy and pain?
Did anybody ever show you how?
When it hits will my heart burst or break or grow strong?
Is there really only one way to know now?

[Verse 5]
Tell your stories to me
Show your bruises
Let’s see what humanity is capable of handling
She lost her kid, only seven, to cancer
She answered with faith in her God and carried on
While he was attacked by his son and was stabbed in his stomach and his back and his arms
He showed me scars
82 years old, told me, “I still have my daughter and my wife
And I still have my life and my son.”

[Verse 6]
Tell me what your worst fears are
I bet they look a lot like mine
Tell me what you think about when you can’t fall asleep at night
Tell me that you’re struggling
Tell me that you’re scared
No, tell me that you’re terrified of life
Tell me that it’s difficult to not think of death sometimes
Tell me how you lost
Tell me how he left
Tell me how she left
Tell me how you lost everything that you had
Tell me it ain’t ever coming back
Tell me about God
Tell me about love
Tell me that it’s all of the above
Say you think of everything in fear
I bet you’re not the only one who does

[Outro]
Everyone in the world comes at some point to suffering
I wonder when I will, I wonder
Everyone is out searching for someone or something
I wonder what I’ll find, I wonder
Everyone in the world comes at some point to suffering
I wonder when I will, I wonder
Everyone is out searching for someone or something
I wonder what I’ll find, I wonder
I wonder what I’ll find, I wonder
I wonder what I’ll find
I wonder what I’ll find
I wonder what I’ll find

Or moving to something more mainstream, Lana Del Rey's Venice Bitch (2018) which contains four verses, a chorus, a post-chorus, a refrain, two bridges and an outro. Which should be sufficient lyrical/structural complexity for most.

[Verse 1]
Fear fun, fear love
Fresh out of fucks forever
Tryin' to be stronger for you
Ice cream, ice queen
I dream in jeans and leather
Live stream, I'm sweet for you

[Chorus]
Oh God, miss you on my lips
It's me, your little Venice bitch
On the stoop with the neighborhood kids
Callin' out, bang bang, kiss kiss

[Post-Chorus]
You're in the yard, I light the fire
And as the summer fades away
Nothing gold can stay
You write, I tour, we make it work
You're beautiful and I'm insane
We're American-made

[Verse 2]
Give me Hallmark
One dream, one life, one lover
Paint me happy in blue
Norman Rockwell
No hype under our covers
It's just me and you

[Chorus]
Oh God, miss you on my lips
It's me, your little Venice bitch
On the stoop with the neighborhood kids
Callin' out, bang bang, kiss kiss

[Post-Chorus]
You're in the yard, I light the fire
And as the summer fades away
Nothing gold can stay
You write, I tour, we make it work
You're beautiful and I'm insane
We're American-made

[Refrain]
Oh (Yeah), oh (Yeah), oh (Yeah)
Soundin' off, bang bang, kiss kiss
Oh (Yeah), oh (Yeah), oh (Yeah)
Soundin' off, bang bang, kiss kiss

[Chorus]
Oh God, want you on my lips (I do, I do)
It's me, your little Venice bitch (Yes, it is)
On the stoop with the neighborhood kids
Soundin' off, bang bang, kiss kiss

[Refrain]
Oh, shatter (Yeah), oh, shatter (Yeah, yeah), oh, shatter (Yeah)
(Soundin' off, bang bang, kiss kiss)
Yeah (Yeah), oh (Yeah), oh (Yeah)
(Soundin' off, bang bang, kiss kiss)
Yeah, yeah

[Verse 3]
You heard my baby's back in town now
You should come, come over
We'll be hanging around now
You should come, come over

[Chorus]
Oh God, I love him on my lips
It's me, your little Venice bitch
Touch me with your fingertips
It's me, your little Venice bitch

[Verse 4]
Back, back in the garden
We're getting high now because we're older
Me myself, I like diamonds
My baby, crimson and clover

[Bridge]
(La-la-la-la-la-la, losers, beautiful losers)
(La-la-la-la-la-la, losers, beautiful, losers)
Wha-wha-wha-wha-whatever
Everything, whatever
Wha-wha-wha-wha-whatever
Everything, whatever

[Guitar Solo]

[Bridge]
Ah, ah, ah, ah
Ah yeah, ah yeah
(La-la-la-la-la-la, losers, beautiful losers)
Ah yeah, ah
(La-la-la-la-la-la, losers, beautiful losers)
La-la-la-la-la-la, losers, (Yeah) beautiful losers (Yeah)
La-la-la-la-la-la, losers, (Yeah) beautiful losers (Yeah)
La-la-la-la-la-la, losers, beautiful losers
La-la-la-la-la-la, losers, beautiful losers

[Verse 4]
Back in the garden
We're getting high now because we're older
Me myself, I like diamonds
My baby, crimson and clover

[Bridge]
Crimson and clover, honey
Crimson and clover, honey
Crimson and clover, honey
Crimson and clover, honey
Crimson and clover, honey
Crimson and clover, honey
Over and over, honey
Over and over, honey
Over and over, honey
Over and over, honey
Over and over

[Guitar Solo]

[Outro]
If you weren't mine, I'd be
Jealous of your love
If you weren't mine, I'd be
Jealous of your love
If you weren't mine, I'd be
Jealous of your love
If you weren't mine, I'd be
Jealous of your love
If you weren't mine, I'd be
Jealous of your love

We probably need more detail of study method and subject corpus to draw conclusions (as many have observed here) especially with numerous variables in production and distribution that influence the number and variety of material generated in different periods.
 
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alansh42

Ars Praefectus
3,672
Subscriptor++
I grew up in the 1970s so
1713224842612.png


On the weekends Sirius-XM' 70s channel runs American Top 40 with Casey Kasem. Most are ones that have held up, but boy, there are a few I've never heard. "Jungle Fever" made it to #8 in 1972.

View: https://youtu.be/mp-NIC6X0GQ
 
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-2 (1 / -3)
Are there that many Norwegian Black Metal bands with Nazi sympathies? The only one that comes to mind is Burzum, and beyond that my only knowledge of NBM controversy is that they occasionally burned down churches in a sort of nordic kayfabe. Then again, I haven't done a lot of research on the topic, mostly because I get the feeling it would put me on some kind of watchlist.
Every time I hear this mentioned, and people in good faith ask which ones because they'd like to stop listening to those bands, never get a reply. I'm not confident it's real.
 
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Chuckstar

Ars Legatus Legionis
37,477
Subscriptor
Another point is that they are comparing the corpus of songs that remain popular today. What's played on last.fm today isn't the same as what was most poplar in those actual years.

EDIT: So when the paper says 1970s songs are less angry, what they really mean is that the 1970s songs that still get listened to a lot today are less angry.
 
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StvnW

Wise, Aged Ars Veteran
133
The list of simple, repetitive songs of the sixties is long...
And don't even get me started about 1950s rock.
No list of repetitive dittys would be complete without this chart topper from the 40s:

Hallelujah! Hallelujah! Hallelujah, hallelujah, hallelujah!
Hallelujah! Hallelujah! Hallelujah, hallelujah, hallelujah!

For the lord God omnipotent reigneth
Hallelujah! Hallelujah! Hallelujah! Hallelujah!

For the lord God omnipotent reigneth
Hallelujah! Hallelujah! Hallelujah! Hallelujah!

For the lord God omnipotent reigneth
Hallelujah! Hallelujah! Hallelujah! Hallelujah!
Hallelujah! Hallelujah! Hallelujah! Hallelujah!
Hallelujah! Hallelujah! Hallelujah! Hallelujah!

...
(GFH 1741)
 
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D

Deleted member 1061767

Guest
You cannot comprehend how old and crochety your second paragraph sounds. Language changes, and everyone thinks new slang sounds stupid; the whole point is to say things adults aren't. Get over yourself.
I knew precisely what I was saying and stand by it. What‘s really hilarious is your insulting me for being, your word, an adult. I have equal contempt for your attitude as you apparently do for mine. I earned every “old and crochety“ thought that I have. You can only hope that someday you‘ll reach adulthood.
 
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panton41

Ars Legatus Legionis
11,115
Subscriptor
and the fall of the Roman Empire took around 1000 years. Any modern comparisons to the Roman empire are almost always ludicrous. See Shaun's great video:


View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WqCCx4wj79o

The Roman Republic was founded, around, the 9th century BCE and the Western Empire ended in the mid-5th century, while the Eastern Empire ended in 1453. So the Roman Empire was around about as long after it supposedly fell, than before.

The whole idea the Roman Empire fell in the 5th century came from the Renaissance Era, when the Classical Era was seen as a golden age, but they couldn't rectify the fact that the Roman Empire actually ended less than a 100 years earlier. So they made up the BS name Byzantine Empire and tried to claim it was different. It wasn't.

But, if you HAD to name a point where the Roman Empire ended and the Byzantine Empire began, it was the death of Justinian I - the last emperor who spoke Latin natively. His nephew, Justin II, natively spoke, and was culturally more, Greek.
 
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Whitehatdvl

Smack-Fu Master, in training
6
There have always been dumb songs with repetitive lyrics. Maybe we are seeing more of that than we used to, but part of the reason is that more music is getting pumped out nowadays than it was in the past, and the dumb stuff is drowning out the more intelligent stuff because it is catchy. Music that is even moderately good can find it's way into the mainstream because there aren't gatekeepers that have to invest money in actually recording music and putting it on a record based only on what they immediately hear, they can crowdsource it first to see if other people like it. Radio stations and record companies used to be some of our gatekeepers. Some of them would let through really catchy trash, but many really loved music and would only let good stuff get recorded or played. Another reason we hear more bad music is that since people can more easily get their stuff out there to get listened to, they are less likely to take constructive criticism and spend time polishing their craft. There are still many great musicians out there, many of whom we have probably never heard but now it's because they are getting drowned out by everybody else singing because nobody is shutting down the less talented people before they put in the work to become more talented or hone their lyrics.
Music now is like trying to find the good singers in the crowd at church, and only hearing the people close to you. Music in the past was listening to a church choir with a good sound system and nobody else singing unless asked to sing along.
 
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mfirst

Ars Centurion
342
Subscriptor
TBH, I feel the same about Ars comments over the 20+ years I've been here under various handles.

Heck even the battlefront threads from the past were a lot more polite than the regular threads of recent times. Seems like everyone loves to be contagiously angry nowadays ...
You are my hero. Too bad only 1 upvote at a time!

Oh - and:
My baby does the hanky panky
 
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0 (0 / 0)
We get it, you're old and crusty. You don't have to keep saying it over and over again. And I don't even care for Taylor Swift.
You obviously don't listen to hip-hop or you wouldn't spew these bigoted stereotypes about it.
From the study :

“This further substantiates previous findings that lyrics are increasingly becoming simpler and that more repetitive music is perceived as more fluent and may drive market success. The strongest such increase can be observed for rap”

“Similarly, the amount of negative emotions conveyed also increases across all genres. Again rap shows the highest increase (), followed by R&B“

I think that makes you out of touch.
 
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-9 (1 / -10)
Guy with Musicology degree here: Music -- and particularly pop music -- has been roughly stagnant since the early '90s. It's sad.

If you compare music over the decades in 2-decade intervals, you'll see massive differences between all of them. Music of the '40s is totally unlike music of the '20s and '60s. Music of the '50s is totally different from music of the '30s and '70s.

And while music of the '80s is nothing like the music of the '60s, there's a shitton of pop music on the radio today that wouldn't have seemed at all out of place in the late '80s into the '90s.

The only real musical change of the past 35+ years has been the addition of hip-hop in white pop music, but that happened in the '90s and hasn't gone far since then.
There's a ton of stuff in Spanish now, from Latin America and the US itself. People are also listening to Korean music. English is not the only language of music, and if you can't find something interesting in that language, there are thousands of others.
 
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I knew precisely what I was saying and stand by it. What‘s really hilarious is your insulting me for being, your word, an adult. I have equal contempt for your attitude as you apparently do for mine. I earned every “old and crochety“ thought that I have. You can only hope that someday you‘ll reach adulthood.
I too love being called old at 33 by people who seemingly think like teenagers. It’s an epidemic of grown-up kids out here.
Just say you're scared of black people, it's not like you're fooling anyone.
Or we can simply read the study, which confirms what he said, and makes you look like a fool.
 
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