Rain and red flags wreck the racing at the Rolex 24 at Daytona
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I love long races like this. I can put it on, do other things, and still enjoy it. Turn it off, come back hours later and still enjoy it.
I still want to know what exactly went on with those two Mazdas. They failed at nearly the same time!
I still want to know what exactly went on with those two Mazdas. They failed at nearly the same time!
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Statistical
Ars Legatus Legionis
From the caption
I assume that Daytona is suppose to be Rolex. Not that I blame you I would have Daytona on the brain too.
I assume that Daytona is suppose to be Rolex. Not that I blame you I would have Daytona on the brain too.
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No, I meant the only Rolex Daytona I want is the one you get for winning this race or Le Mans. I’d be OK paying for a Submariner, but paying for a Daytona feels like failure
I’ll edit the caption in a bit to make it clearer.
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Ars Legatus Legionis
No, I meant the only Rolex Daytona I want is the one you get for winning this race or Le Mans. I’d be OK paying for a Submariner, but paying for a Daytona feels like failure
I’ll edit the caption in a bit to make it clearer.
Gotcha. Like buying an olympic gold medal to say you have one.
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Photon_plumber
Ars Tribunus Militum
Sports car racing fan my whole life, pro to local vintage. Sports car racing is a facsimile of production cars in both the technical and daily aspect, but going at it at 100%. It rains on the street, you slow down. It rains on the track, put on the rains and adjust your driving accordingly. After the first one or two non-visibility mishaps the rest of the field would have gotten the message. They should have let them race. Also, Ferrari got hosed out of the victory. They had better numbers than the BMW. They just happened to be 'officially ' out front by 1.56 seconds when they called the race.
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@Jonathan M. Gitlin
While we do appreciate you detailing the subsidies you've received, except for "press access" to the stadium, you shouldn't have needed any.
While we do appreciate you detailing the subsidies you've received, except for "press access" to the stadium, you shouldn't have needed any.
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The water was deep enough where the cars would have hydroplaned on their belly pans. Slowing down won’t help if your tires can’t even touch the track.
Hell, I read that the pit crews were having wheels/tires floating away.
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Yup, there is no way to safely drive a car with an inch's ground clearance through two inches of water if it has a completely flat underfloor.
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I think racing in the rain really highlights driver skill. It's "easier" when things are dry and perfect an those glue balls they call tires can do their magic. But in the wet it's all about finesse.
I once got to drive a kart in the rain on slicks. The day started wet and cleared up by the afternoon. Being able to go from full wet to a dry line forming to a full dry track in one day, on the same tires, was incredible fun. I can only imagine what it's like to race one of these fantastic machines.
I once got to drive a kart in the rain on slicks. The day started wet and cleared up by the afternoon. Being able to go from full wet to a dry line forming to a full dry track in one day, on the same tires, was incredible fun. I can only imagine what it's like to race one of these fantastic machines.
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I’ve heard some indoor kart tracks have special days where they sprinkle sand or flour on the tracks to make it really slippery. Becomes a real test of skill and finesse to race in these conditions. I’d love to go try out one of these.
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Alonso is a truly gifted driver. He's had a shit car the last few years, but look at his first lap performance when all of the backmarkers are hampered by traffic, and you can see just how good he is.
Alonso's problem has always been that he cannot tolerate having an equally strong teammate. He insists on being the #1 driver, so when Hamilton arrived as a rookie in 2007, and was at least matching Alonso on performance, he really couldn't cope and left the team. If you're going to drive for a top 3 team in F1, you're going to have 2 strong drivers. McLaren had years with 2 world champions, Ferrrari did the last few years, Mercedes would prefer to. Alonso got cycled back to weaker teams where he could be the star, but where he had worse equipment. It was a bad tradeoff, IMO.
Nice to see him winning again. I always enjoy watching him race.
Alonso's problem has always been that he cannot tolerate having an equally strong teammate. He insists on being the #1 driver, so when Hamilton arrived as a rookie in 2007, and was at least matching Alonso on performance, he really couldn't cope and left the team. If you're going to drive for a top 3 team in F1, you're going to have 2 strong drivers. McLaren had years with 2 world champions, Ferrrari did the last few years, Mercedes would prefer to. Alonso got cycled back to weaker teams where he could be the star, but where he had worse equipment. It was a bad tradeoff, IMO.
Nice to see him winning again. I always enjoy watching him race.
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I think I actually prefer racing when it's wet, because as you say it puts more emphasis on the driver and less on the car.
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Also, he is intensely political within a team, and burned bridges at Ferrari. Neither Mercedes nor Red Bull were interested in hiring him for that reason. Which is a shame because he ought to have way more than 2 WDCs.
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Oh, absolutely. In F1 the rain is the great equalizer. F1 even considered installing sprinklers at the tracks to guarantee rain races. IMO the greatest F1 drive of the last 20 years was Button's win in Montreal in 2011. 6 safety cars, a red flag, Button pitted 6 times (once due to Hamilton plowing into him - I love Hamilton but that was one of his dumbest moves I can recall, well, after throwing it off in China to miss out on a drivers championship in his rookie season) and was dead last at the midpoint of the race. In the last lap or two, Vettel threw his car off in the rain and Button came through to win. It was epic and it never would have happened without the rain.
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I'm shocked that McLaren took him back after the 2007 season. But yeah, had he controlled his behavior and gotten a ride at Red Bull alongside Vettel or Mercedes alongside Hamilton, I know Vettel wouldn't have as many championships and I suspect Hamilton wouldn't have as many either.
I think I would most enjoy seeing Alonzo in a V8 Supercar. I think that would be amazing.
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Dunno. When it gets as wet as it did, I think the rain becomes more of a randomizer than an equalizer.
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Can I just say that the current trend for renaming sports events, stadiums, etc after the current sponsors really sucks.
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Nice summary Jonathan and we enjoyed talking with you.
This was the wettest race I can remember and I have been going since before it was a 24 hour race. Regarding racing in the rain. It is great up to a point, but when the drivers can't see and the cars have to be held back to 50-60 percent just to stay on the track, it is too wet to race. Also, when there are more people inside the concourse watching the tv feed, than in the stands, it is time to stop. Sunday the stands were empty and the covered concourse had little groups around each of the many TV monitors.
Great racing while it lasted. We will be there again next year.
Tex
This was the wettest race I can remember and I have been going since before it was a 24 hour race. Regarding racing in the rain. It is great up to a point, but when the drivers can't see and the cars have to be held back to 50-60 percent just to stay on the track, it is too wet to race. Also, when there are more people inside the concourse watching the tv feed, than in the stands, it is time to stop. Sunday the stands were empty and the covered concourse had little groups around each of the many TV monitors.
Great racing while it lasted. We will be there again next year.
Tex
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Alonso's speed in the wet at this Daytona was repeatedly described as 'magic.' But other than his sheer driving skills, one of the things I've always appreciated about Alonso is his race craft, the ability to make rapid judgments and manage yourself on the track.
The perfect example this past weekend was when Wayne Taylor put Alonso back in the car for what would likely be a long and grueling final session in appallingly wet conditions. Alonso soon took the car into the lead, but Felipe Nasr in another Cadillac started gaining on him, and then made a successful pass for the race lead. However Alonso didn't speed up to stay with Nasr, who gradually pulled out a few seconds lead. I thought at the time that Alonso likely realized that Nasr was over-driving for the conditions, and sure enough, on the next lap or two Nasr aquaplaned way into the runoff zone under braking, losing his lead definitively.
Not too long afterward the race was red flagged, and as it turned out that was that. But Alonso's combination of sheer speed and finely honed race craft had put his #10 car out front.
The perfect example this past weekend was when Wayne Taylor put Alonso back in the car for what would likely be a long and grueling final session in appallingly wet conditions. Alonso soon took the car into the lead, but Felipe Nasr in another Cadillac started gaining on him, and then made a successful pass for the race lead. However Alonso didn't speed up to stay with Nasr, who gradually pulled out a few seconds lead. I thought at the time that Alonso likely realized that Nasr was over-driving for the conditions, and sure enough, on the next lap or two Nasr aquaplaned way into the runoff zone under braking, losing his lead definitively.
Not too long afterward the race was red flagged, and as it turned out that was that. But Alonso's combination of sheer speed and finely honed race craft had put his #10 car out front.
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“probably IMSA's highest-profile event“
From an old ALMS fan...
SEBRING!!! (While shaking fist in the air)
You are probably right, but I think the 12 hours of Sebring is a harder race on both the drivers and cars.
Plus more people show up (though Daytona was pretty full this year)
Sebring has character. It’s a “Happening” as my old deceased uncle used to say
From an old ALMS fan...
SEBRING!!! (While shaking fist in the air)
You are probably right, but I think the 12 hours of Sebring is a harder race on both the drivers and cars.
Plus more people show up (though Daytona was pretty full this year)
Sebring has character. It’s a “Happening” as my old deceased uncle used to say
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I have to agree, Sebring is a far better race and test for car and driver. Honestly, for all its importance, I never found Daytona all that interesting of a race.“probably IMSA's highest-profile event“
From an old ALMS fan...
SEBRING!!! (While shaking fist in the air)
You are probably right, but I think the 12 hours of Sebring is a harder race on both the drivers and cars.
Plus more people show up (though Daytona was pretty full this year)
Sebring has character. It’s a “Happening” as my old deceased uncle used to say
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as someone who understands a car has 4 tires and an engine and can go really fast intentionally and be regularly interesting to watch in passing, i was initially puzzled and asked 'why on ars?'.
i read it in full with interest, but got lost in small sections that required context i missed. then i read the comments (all more interesting than expected) and the same thing happened (a little help on acronyms please, aficionados!). a nice diversion.
it's definitely worthy of ars. And techy detail is certainly a good angle to bridge the gap of empathy and interest. just help a guy out with the oodles of TLAs and assumed history, please!
i read it in full with interest, but got lost in small sections that required context i missed. then i read the comments (all more interesting than expected) and the same thing happened (a little help on acronyms please, aficionados!). a nice diversion.
it's definitely worthy of ars. And techy detail is certainly a good angle to bridge the gap of empathy and interest. just help a guy out with the oodles of TLAs and assumed history, please!
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“probably IMSA's highest-profile event“
From an old ALMS fan...
SEBRING!!! (While shaking fist in the air)
You are probably right, but I think the 12 hours of Sebring is a harder race on both the drivers and cars.
Plus more people show up (though Daytona was pretty full this year)
Sebring has character. It’s a “Happening” as my old deceased uncle used to say
Don't worry, there will be Sebring content in March. Which reminds me, I need to book my flights...
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I did include links to many prior articles which should hopefully fill you in. These are all from last year and were linked in the very second paragraph:
https://meincmagazine.com/cars/2018/06/up ... rand-prix/
https://meincmagazine.com/cars/2018/09/im ... t-go-next/
https://meincmagazine.com/cars/2018/10/th ... ar-racing/
https://meincmagazine.com/cars/2018/10/mo ... -race-car/
Here are some others. I have listed them in reverse chronological order, but the first one in the list was first published in 2015.
https://meincmagazine.com/cars/2018/11/th ... than-ever/
https://meincmagazine.com/cars/2018/08/th ... simulator/
https://meincmagazine.com/cars/2018/01/an ... t-daytona/
https://meincmagazine.com/cars/2017/04/no ... -race-car/
https://meincmagazine.com/cars/2017/02/co ... -race-car/
https://meincmagazine.com/cars/2016/11/ma ... auto-show/
https://meincmagazine.com/cars/2016/09/th ... -pictures/
https://meincmagazine.com/cars/2016/01/st ... -rolex-24/
https://meincmagazine.com/cars/2015/07/wa ... -race-car/
https://meincmagazine.com/cars/2014/09/lo ... -in-texas/
https://meincmagazine.com/information-tec ... nway-park/
https://meincmagazine.com/information-tec ... d-vehicle/
And here's a piece from 2008 (Yes, 11 years ago) which ought to at least prove that this is a topic we've been covering for a long time: https://meincmagazine.com/features/2008/0 ... -of-speed/
Those are most of the IMSA-specific ones, I can point you in the direction of some features and other stuff we've done on Le Mans and the hybrid LMP1 prototypes if you like.
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I have to agree, Sebring is a far better race and test for car and driver. Honestly, for all its importance, I never found Daytona all that interesting of a race.“probably IMSA's highest-profile event“
From an old ALMS fan...
SEBRING!!! (While shaking fist in the air)
You are probably right, but I think the 12 hours of Sebring is a harder race on both the drivers and cars.
Plus more people show up (though Daytona was pretty full this year)
Sebring has character. It’s a “Happening” as my old deceased uncle used to say
There's no doubting Sebring is hard, and before the buyout in the days of the prototurtles I definitely had more interest in the ALMS race. But as hard as Sebring is, it is only 12 hours. I've done 24 hour races as a competitor, as a journalist, and as a spectator, and there's just something different about a race around the clock.
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I watched the first couple hours, then picked it up again the next morning. While I also like racing in the rain, this seemed to be a bit much if you're going to spend hours behind the pace car under yellow. And it seemed to be sort of bad timing to go back to green just when it started to rain harder. That rear end wreck in zero visibility should be required viewing during instructional videos for driver training, at all levels.
I heard the commentary crew say the bus stop was totally under water and that drainage was poor after a few hours of hard rain.
I heard the commentary crew say the bus stop was totally under water and that drainage was poor after a few hours of hard rain.
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I’ve been following F1 and other series since mid 1990s and what I cannot understand is adoration of Fernando Alonso.
Sure, he is a 2-time world champion and won Le Mans, had a good run at Indy 500.
But let’s compare him with Jacques Villeneuve, who has an equally difficult personality.
The Canadian won 1 WC, finished runner up his first season. He won Indy 500 (came from 2 laps down), Indy championship, and finished runner up at Le Mans (behind all conquering Audis). He put a Nascar car on qualifying p6 on his first attempt in Taladega.
They are in the same league.
Sure, he is a 2-time world champion and won Le Mans, had a good run at Indy 500.
But let’s compare him with Jacques Villeneuve, who has an equally difficult personality.
The Canadian won 1 WC, finished runner up his first season. He won Indy 500 (came from 2 laps down), Indy championship, and finished runner up at Le Mans (behind all conquering Audis). He put a Nascar car on qualifying p6 on his first attempt in Taladega.
They are in the same league.
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No signs of rain at the Bathurst 12 hour (a race for for GT3, GT4 classes at the challenging Mt Panorama circuit), in progress as I type this.
https://www.bathurst12hour.com.au/streams-tv/
https://www.bathurst12hour.com.au/streams-tv/
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A wet track is a great equalizer. Enough standing water that you're effectively trying to race in a very shallow pond. otoh, is just a mess.
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Just a minor correction to one of the image captions: As much as I wish it'd happened, Kobayashi didn't win Le Mans in 2018; you might have mixed him up with Kazuki Nakajima, who did win at Le Mans last year, but has never driven in the Daytona 24.
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