I do not understand car companies desire to make vehicles less safe by the inclusions of a giant touch screen that controls nearly everything in the car. And of course the waste of power to drive such a large display. It is almost bland enough on the inside that you could call it a Tesla. I'm all for the future of electric vehicles, but you don't have to make them less safe and boring at the same time.
It's okay not to like certain new tech. It doesn't make you a luddite or mean you're "just here to hate on new tech". I like tactile buttons. I want an instrument cluster infront of me. If the best vehicle for my needs was only available with a 17" smartphone glued to the center console, I guess I'd eat the crap sandwich and get used to it, but I think we all need to be careful about changing the driving experience too radically too quickly because of the inherent danger.
I can point you to a discussion on this site, going on at this very minute, where readers are saying they don't want any microchips in their cars.
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Know why the iPhone keeps driving thinner, thinner, thinner trends while the actual users continually complain about battery life? Because buyers prioritize sexy over function.
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Not everyone is on board with the Mach-E being called a Mustang. Car people in particular are unhappy that the long and storied name has been attached to a five-door crossover, not a two-door coupe.
It's okay not to like certain new tech. It doesn't make you a luddite or mean you're "just here to hate on new tech". I like tactile buttons. I want an instrument cluster infront of me. If the best vehicle for my needs was only available with a 17" smartphone glued to the center console, I guess I'd eat the crap sandwich and get used to it, but I think we all need to be careful about changing the driving experience too radically too quickly because of the inherent danger.
I can point you to a discussion on this site, going on at this very minute, where readers are saying they don't want any microchips in their cars.
FTA:plenty of Mustangs have been unexciting cars
I once visited the factory when these damned things wore the Mustang badge:
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A pretty low period for all.
I know someone who drove one (can't remember the model). It had decent performance and he drove it like he stole it.Funny thing about the Vega is that GM already knew (as a corporation) how to build a good small car of the time. They had Opel.
You might have had a lemon. I've owned VWs from '56 to '70 models and they were certainly as reliable as any American hulk. Nothing like today's cars overall, but relatively easy to repair as required.Also, learned to drive in a '63 VW in SF - constant maintenance need, perhaps replacing anything that could (or did) break so often that an actual rebuild might never have been needed.
U-turn, I agree, unless the total turning range fits into 1/2 turn lock to lock; requires a hugely variable-ratio steering setup to make that work in a car that needs to deal with real roads. Parking space is a little grayer: if you turn around and look out the back window like DMV requires in a driving test, you almost naturally will revert to one hand - a problem in certain old cars I have driven where there was no power steering and you NEEDED 2 hands to steer at low speeds. But then cars that can park themselves have been around for longer than Tesla...I often see it opined on the internet that we need Real Car Builders that Know How to Build Cars to come in and fix all of Tesla's mistakes.
Maybe they'll get there, but I see nothing in this car that would entice me away from buying another Tesla when the time comes. Poor efficiency, poor range, poor DCFC, worse driving dynamics.
Then again, if Tesla is truly committed to the yoke wheel, no-stalk lifestyle...ugh.
I'm willing to give the yoke wheel the benefit of the doubt. I'm mostly a one hand turning type of guy anyway, so the yoke steering wheel makes no difference to me handling wise. The only time I put my hand on the top of the steering wheel or at the bottom is when I'm cruising, in which case I have autopilot on. But autopilot is designed such that, annoyingly, it won't register your hand in those positions because it does not register any torque on the steering wheel. So I'm stuck with putting my hand somewhere at the 3 and 9 position anyways.
How do you back up into a parking space or do a 3-point turn or a u-turn with one hand?
Not everyone is on board with the Mach-E being called a Mustang. Car people in particular are unhappy that the long and storied name has been attached to a five-door crossover, not a two-door coupe.
Are there going to be any small, affordable, sporty 2-door electric coupes anytime soon?
I'd be interested in something like a Miata, or a Toyota 86, or a Porsche Cayman (although it's obviously less affordable).
It's okay not to like certain new tech. It doesn't make you a luddite or mean you're "just here to hate on new tech". I like tactile buttons. I want an instrument cluster infront of me. If the best vehicle for my needs was only available with a 17" smartphone glued to the center console, I guess I'd eat the crap sandwich and get used to it, but I think we all need to be careful about changing the driving experience too radically too quickly because of the inherent danger.
I can point you to a discussion on this site, going on at this very minute, where readers are saying they don't want any microchips in their cars.
No doubt, but that's a very small percentage of people from what I've seen on various car-centric platforms.
Half of which are computer AI.But we're not talking about other sites, we're talking about Arsians.
Half of which are computer AI.But we're not talking about other sites, we're talking about Arsians.
fast charging once a week probably won't be cheap (or healthy for the battery's longevity).
I'm curious about the battery health statement. I've seen it mentioned before, but I've also read a lot of conflicting information about it. Many also say that as long as you're not going below 10% and then charging above 80% on the DC fast charging it should have a negligible effect.
The cost of batteries is certainly moving in the right direction - too slow for our liking but still better than the alternative.Nope, and as long as batteries remain heavy and expensive there won't be.
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Nope, and as long as batteries remain heavy and expensive there won't be.
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Nope, and as long as batteries remain heavy and expensive there won't be.
What if a Tesla Model 3 were scaled down to be Cayman-sized?
It would weigh less just by way of being smaller. Then the battery capacity could presumably be reduced because the car weighs less. And a smaller battery weighs less and costs less.
Seriously, if Tesla scaled the Model 3 down to be Cayman-sized, what kind of weight and price would people be looking at?
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You'd probably have to halve the pack size, which means carrying about 40kWh.
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Nope, and as long as batteries remain heavy and expensive there won't be.
What if a Tesla Model 3 were scaled down to be Cayman-sized?
It would weigh less just by way of being smaller. Then the battery capacity could presumably be reduced because the car weighs less. And a smaller battery weighs less and costs less.
Seriously, if Tesla scaled the Model 3 down to be Cayman-sized, what kind of weight and price would people be looking at?
You'd probably have to halve the pack size, which means carrying about 40kWh.
I often see it opined on the internet that we need Real Car Builders that Know How to Build Cars to come in and fix all of Tesla's mistakes.
Maybe they'll get there, but I see nothing in this car that would entice me away from buying another Tesla when the time comes. Poor efficiency, poor range, poor DCFC, worse driving dynamics.
Then again, if Tesla is truly committed to the yoke wheel, no-stalk lifestyle...ugh.
I'm willing to give the yoke wheel the benefit of the doubt. I'm mostly a one hand turning type of guy anyway, so the yoke steering wheel makes no difference to me handling wise. The only time I put my hand on the top of the steering wheel or at the bottom is when I'm cruising, in which case I have autopilot on. But autopilot is designed such that, annoyingly, it won't register your hand in those positions because it does not register any torque on the steering wheel. So I'm stuck with putting my hand somewhere at the 3 and 9 position anyways.
A brief history of ‘frunks’. A splattering of low priced, mid-engined cars from the 60s/70s like the Lotus Europa, Porsche 914, Fiat X1/9 and Lancia Beta Montecarlo introduced the masses to frunks. However, I’ve never met anyone who uses the term. ‘Stick it in the front trunk’ is common at shows or car runs. Frunk is used in a jesting manner.
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You'd probably have to halve the pack size, which means carrying about 40kWh.
A Cayman is ~175 inches long. A Tesla Model 3 is 185 inches long.
Why would you have to halve the pack size? A Model 3's battery pack isn't 20 inches long.
What happened to the Tesla Roadster II, or whatever it's called? I haven't heard anything since the original teaser video.
That should provide some data on battery weight (although it might cost a couple hundred-K and have a range of only two football fields).
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You'd probably have to halve the pack size, which means carrying about 40kWh.
A Cayman is ~175 inches long. A Tesla Model 3 is 185 inches long.
Why would you have to halve the pack size? A Model 3's battery pack isn't 20 inches long.
Because otherwise you're carrying around 800-1000lbs of battery. Which kind of defeats the point of making a small, nimble sports car.
The answer is that right now, batteries do not have the sufficient energy and power density at a sufficient price to make affordable little two seaters. Or even Boxster-priced sports cars. If they did, someone would be building one.
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You'd probably have to halve the pack size, which means carrying about 40kWh.
A Cayman is ~175 inches long. A Tesla Model 3 is 185 inches long.
Why would you have to halve the pack size? A Model 3's battery pack isn't 20 inches long.
Because otherwise you're carrying around 800-1000lbs of battery. Which kind of defeats the point of making a small, nimble sports car.
The answer is that right now, batteries do not have the sufficient energy and power density at a sufficient price to make affordable little two seaters. Or even Boxster-priced sports cars. If they did, someone would be building one.
From 2010
Comparison: 2010 Tesla Roadster Sport vs 2011 Porsche Boxster Spyder
https://www.motortrend.com/cars/porsche ... omparison/
I often see it opined on the internet that we need Real Car Builders that Know How to Build Cars to come in and fix all of Tesla's mistakes.
Maybe they'll get there, but I see nothing in this car that would entice me away from buying another Tesla when the time comes. Poor efficiency, poor range, poor DCFC, worse driving dynamics.
Then again, if Tesla is truly committed to the yoke wheel, no-stalk lifestyle...ugh.
I'm willing to give the yoke wheel the benefit of the doubt. I'm mostly a one hand turning type of guy anyway, so the yoke steering wheel makes no difference to me handling wise. The only time I put my hand on the top of the steering wheel or at the bottom is when I'm cruising, in which case I have autopilot on. But autopilot is designed such that, annoyingly, it won't register your hand in those positions because it does not register any torque on the steering wheel. So I'm stuck with putting my hand somewhere at the 3 and 9 position anyways.
How do you back up into a parking space or do a 3-point turn or a u-turn with one hand?
The thing I find most puzzling in the cars that have a large centralized touchscreen, is that apparently none of them have a tilt-&-swivel mount.My hypothesis is that these components might frequently fail (relatively). Building it into the dash would make it much more expensive to swap in a new display when the existing one fails. (NOTE: This might not be a well thought out hypothesis, I'm only two sips into my morning coffee).
R&I of dashboard components including touchscreen head units (long available from the aftermarket) is a thoroughly solved problem with no necessity to hang them out in space. It's so easy to do automakers could make their displays as tablets (which have been able to interact with OBD systems for many years via simple Bluetooth dongles) permitting effortless swapout. Every connector option they might need is available COTS.
Given the need to make a dashboard crash-safe, I don't think the idea of removable consumer tablets instead of built-in infotainment screens will work nearly as well as you think it might.
Also, if the screen is to be touched, it needs to be within reach of the driver and front seat passenger, and that often means putting it proud of the dash, which is further away from the front seat occupants because again, people want crash safety in their new vehicles and that means having room between you and the hard dash.
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Because otherwise you're carrying around 800-1000lbs of battery. Which kind of defeats the point of making a small, nimble sports car.
The answer is that right now, batteries do not have the sufficient energy and power density at a sufficient price to make affordable little two seaters. Or even Boxster-priced sports cars. If they did, someone would be building one.
And to answer the most common question I have been asked about the car, yes, there is plenty of room for your head when you sit in the back, with 39.3 inches (998mm) of headroom courtesy of that TARDIS-like rear hatch.
That is great to know, thanks!
I wasn't able to find official specs on the ID4's rear headroom, but when I actually SIT in the back, my scalp grazes the ceiling. Very annoying. I'm not tall and I have have a good inch in the back of, say, a Passat Variant (which was next to the ID4 in the showroom). The Passat Variant is listed at 37.8" in the back, so 39.3" is very good. My best guess is the ID4 is a minuscule 37", but even the saleperson wasn't able to give me a number.
As for the rest of the interior, I'm split. I don't like the portrait mode touchscreen. Not here and not in the Model S. I'm not convinced by the decision to go with a small screen stuck on top of the dash in lieu of a traditional cluster of recessed gauges / screen. I don't quite feel the center console and armrest "flows" well, either, and looks a bit messy.
I *do* like the outside of the car. One of the best looking CUVs out there, IMHO, and I completely understand the amount of attention it garnered during testing!
I don't understand the decision to lock away the frunk, though, with what is basically an old-ICE-style hood release lever. As for the pre-segmented nature of the frunk... it almost looks like it's there to act as a crumple zone, doesn't it?
Perhaps they are afraid a frunk with an outside button would be easier to leave open, leading to some very exciting moments when the hood slams into your windscreen at highway speeds? That's the only thing I can think of.
That, or they just did this because they're used to it.
I'm not really expecting an external button and it almost certainly has an external manual release of some kind for first responders to use to gain access (required in e.g. a Tesla to disconnect the high voltage stuff). I would like to see the frunk access get some more love, though, and be as easy to use as in a 911. I'm not a fan of needing to get the phone out and use an app on the Tesla, either. The old 911s you could just use your key, which is easier to do one-handed with a bag in the other than getting your phone out, opening and navigating the Tesla app. Yeah, we're apparently going key-less, so maybe this is just a losing proposition, but the utility of a frunk is severely diminished for me if access to it isn't easy.
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Because otherwise you're carrying around 800-1000lbs of battery. Which kind of defeats the point of making a small, nimble sports car.
The answer is that right now, batteries do not have the sufficient energy and power density at a sufficient price to make affordable little two seaters. Or even Boxster-priced sports cars. If they did, someone would be building one.
The original Tesla Roadster from 2008 weighs almost exactly as much as the Porsche Cayman does today. Surely in 2021 somebody could make a car with similar characteristics to the original Roadster for less money?
But whatever, my question was, what would a scaled-down Model 3 look like in terms of weight and price?
That is to say, make a two-seat, two-door Model 3 with reduced cargo storage and a big enough battery for the thing to go ~250 miles.
How much does that weigh? How much does that cost?
I would assume that such a car would weigh... what... 400 pounds less than a regular Model 3? And cost... what... $4000 less (at least to manufacture)?
So you'd be looking at a small car that weighs ~3300 lbs and costs around $34,000? That doesn't seem too bad at all.
Not everyone is on board with the Mach-E being called a Mustang. Car people in particular are unhappy that the long and storied name has been attached to a five-door crossover, not a two-door coupe.
Are there going to be any small, affordable, sporty 2-door electric coupes anytime soon?
I'd be interested in something like a Miata, or a Toyota 86, or a Porsche Cayman (although it's obviously less affordable).
Nope, and as long as batteries remain heavy and expensive there won't be.
It's okay not to like certain new tech. It doesn't make you a luddite or mean you're "just here to hate on new tech". I like tactile buttons. I want an instrument cluster infront of me. If the best vehicle for my needs was only available with a 17" smartphone glued to the center console, I guess I'd eat the crap sandwich and get used to it, but I think we all need to be careful about changing the driving experience too radically too quickly because of the inherent danger.
I can point you to a discussion on this site, going on at this very minute, where readers are saying they don't want any microchips in their cars.
...
The current SR+ version of the Model 3 weighs 3550 lbs, costs $38K and has an EPA range of 263 miles.
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You'd probably have to halve the pack size, which means carrying about 40kWh.
A Cayman is ~175 inches long. A Tesla Model 3 is 185 inches long.
Why would you have to halve the pack size? A Model 3's battery pack isn't 20 inches long.
Because otherwise you're carrying around 800-1000lbs of battery. Which kind of defeats the point of making a small, nimble sports car.
The answer is that right now, batteries do not have the sufficient energy and power density at a sufficient price to make affordable little two seaters. Or even Boxster-priced sports cars. If they did, someone would be building one.
I do not understand car companies desire to make vehicles less safe by the inclusions of a giant touch screen that controls nearly everything in the car. ....[snip]...I'm all for the future of electric vehicles, but you don't have to make them less safe and boring at the same time.
I don't understand why people with zero subject knowledge post this in every single forum. Every. Single. Forum. I assume these are the same people who are still using a sub 5" smart phone because 'big phones won't fit in my pockets'.
Even aside from the safety and convenience issues with touchscreen controls, I don't understand why no-one seems to make any effort at all to make them look like they belong there. Why does every car just have a big tablet glued in front of the dashboard? Surely it can't be that much effort to actually build it into place so that the screen seems like part of the fittings? It just looks so pathetically shoddy to try selling an expensive shiny car, and then just duck tape a cheap tablet to the front.
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And what is your subject expertise that you think you can be condescending to my view points? I can concede I was wrong about the power consumption of the screen based being a drain on all the other replies, but an all touchscreen system for even basic vehicle controls is not safer than knobs and buttons of most cars on the road today. I don't have to take my eyes off the road to change the volume (not everyone is blessed enough to own a vehicle with steering wheel controls), to change the temperature, change fan speed, turn on the rear window defroster, etc.