Epstein client list, does it exist or not?

[dave99]

Is he though? Not a day goes by that I don't wonder if he is the most luckiest or actually smart. I don't lean toward smart, just how he is, but if he is smart, then he is really really smart.

He's probably (or was anyway) at least average intelligence, but there is a big difference is book smart vs daily life smart. I know someone close who was harvard med school smart, but is maybe the flightiest & most absent minded person in my orbit, where I wonder how they function in day to day.

Trump has that weird charisma that attracts a lot of people (but is utterly revolting to many others), and you get that by being able to read what your people want and how to feed it to them in a way that makes you seem almost invincible.

 

[Welcome to Darwin]

He's probably (or was anyway) at least average intelligence

There's a joke in here about "average intelligence"...

 

[sword_9mm]

He has no shame which I think is his biggest draw for these people.

He has no issue saying nothing, garbage, words that make no sense, etc. I'd think a lot of folks would be a bit embarrassed by that but not Trump.

I'm not even sure what his 'fans' hear out of him that they like; I don't think it's the words it's just the pure rage/hate of it all.

All I hear is a mess of words the few times I've ever listened to him for more than about 2 seconds. I guess my brain doesn't filter his antics in the right way.

 

[Welcome to Darwin]

Getting away with things that would get most people thrown in prison makes him a "winner."

The ultimate conman.

 

[ahmerali]

He has no shame which I think is his biggest draw for these people.

He has no issue saying nothing, garbage, words that make no sense, etc. I'd think a lot of folks would be a bit embarrassed by that but not Trump.

I'm not even sure what his 'fans' hear out of him that they like; I don't think it's the words it's just the pure rage/hate of it all.

All I hear is a mess of words the few times I've ever listened to him for more than about 2 seconds. I guess my brain doesn't filter his antics in the right way.

He makes it OK to be and do whatever you want. You want to hate people? He does, and he's rich and successful and the frickin PRESIDENT, so it's OK for me to do that.

You want to speak unfiltered without consequence? Be terrible to people and make them afraid? Same deal.

Whatever base desire you have, he validates your wish to have it and express it.

That's worth more than any money he could give you. To some people. Because you can't 'buy' that feeling.

 

[Thank You and Best of Luck!]

Because you can't 'buy' that feeling.

[citation needed]

“Cocaine is a helluva drug.”

 

[dzid]

He makes it OK to be and do whatever you want. You want to hate people? He does, and he's rich and successful and the frickin PRESIDENT, so it's OK for me to do that.

You want to speak unfiltered without consequence? Be terrible to people and make them afraid? Same deal.

Whatever base desire you have, he validates your wish to have it and express it.

That's worth more than any money he could give you. To some people. Because you can't 'buy' that feeling.

He told people that the system is rigged against them. This is true.

He told them that only he can fix it. This was always a lie, and the fissures we see in the MAGA coalition are a result of some beginning to realize they've been lied to and used.

We should be exploiting the fissures.

 

[Babbaganoosh]

How exactly would we be able to tell if DOJ actually releases "ALL" the files related to Epstein? It's not exactly far-fetched to think at least some of the most incriminating files would either be held back or outright destroyed.

 

[dzid]

How exactly would we be able to tell if DOJ actually releases "ALL" the files related to Epstein? It's not exactly far-fetched to think at least some of the most incriminating files would either be held back or outright destroyed.

Hopefully by comparing the "official" release to the subsequent leaks.

 

[ahmerali]

He told people that the system is rigged against them. This is true.

He told them that only he can fix it. This was always a lie, and the fissures we see in the MAGA coalition are a result of some beginning to realize they've been lied to and used.

We should be exploiting the fissures.

Agreed, but the question is why he appeals to a certain group. That's the answer. People believe the lies to the point that they are comfortable with them.

 

[dzid]

Agreed, but the question is why he appeals to a certain group. That's the answer. People believe the lies to the point that they are comfortable with them.

Yes, and that's nothing that I'm going to excuse. Hating on the out-group(s) is a fundamental part of it, and addressing that relies on a number of things, but first and foremost a commitment to change and a willingness to put in the work to do so. Which includes learning something about those that were that targets of that hate.

 

[Gub]

How exactly would we be able to tell if DOJ actually releases "ALL" the files related to Epstein? It's not exactly far-fetched to think at least some of the most incriminating files would either be held back or outright destroyed.

One of the first things I would look at is to compare emails. The emails that have been released so far were obtained from the Epstein estate, and I would check to see if the future DOJ releases contained the same emails, especially the ones where Trump is referenced. If those emails are missing from the DOJ release(s), that may be evidence that something is missing.

 

[KobayashiSaru]

Hopefully by comparing the "official" release to the subsequent leaks.

"The full files have been released and these weren't in them, so clearly faked!"

 

[dzid]

"The full files have been released and these weren't in them, so clearly faked!"

I think there's more than enough evidence already public, along with ongoing court cases bringing new facts to light to be utterly damning of Trump. His sycophants and enablers daily implicate themselves by their excuses, deflections and minimizing of objectively horrific crimes.

I want to see it all public, of course, and I believe it most likely will happen, one way or another. Convictions happen all the time on circumstantial evidence. If someone claims not to see the abuse of children, the enabling law firms, public officials and financial institutions, it is because they do not want to see it.

Keep the aperture wide. Those suspicious activity reports received by managers at Bank of America, Bank of New York Mellon, Morgan Stanley and who knows how many others would have been enough to bury any two-bit drug dealer or money launderer.

But people made decisions to let those related to Epstein and his co-conspirators slide. Those people should be sweating fucking bullets waiting for an aggressive, independent journalist to start asking questions and not take no for an answer. Why didn't you process those SARs? Who told you not to? That's what we need to know.

Because guys like Epstein are good for business. He brings in wealthy clients. Make them own that.

 

[wco81]

Trump would not sign a bill to release the files if he wasn't assured that he isn't going to be implicated in any way.

 

[concernUrsus]

Trump would not sign a bill to release the files if he wasn't assured that he isn't going to be implicated in any way.

I would assume the report/file is never strong enough. There are enough room that allow people to look the other ways. People would have been criminal charged to begin with if the files are that strong. There are probably a lot of stuff like Epstein's birthday cards. Probably a lot of files that worth look into, but people in power do not. With all these confusion, it is even easier to muddy the water (and DOJ will help with that as well).

 

[Stern]

How exactly would we be able to tell if DOJ actually releases "ALL" the files related to Epstein?

You won't, which is why this conspiracy theory will never completely die out.

 

[dio82]

I think there's more than enough evidence already public, along with ongoing court cases bringing new facts to light to be utterly damning of Trump. His sycophants and enablers daily implicate themselves by their excuses, deflections and minimizing of objectively horrific crimes.

I want to see it all public, of course, and I believe it most likely will happen, one way or another. Convictions happen all the time on circumstantial evidence. If someone claims not to see the abuse of children, the enabling law firms, public officials and financial institutions, it is because they do not want to see it.

Keep the aperture wide. Those suspicious activity reports received by managers at Bank of America, Bank of New York Mellon, Morgan Stanley and who knows how many others would have been enough to bury any two-bit drug dealer or money launderer.

But people made decisions to let those related to Epstein and his co-conspirators slide. Those people should be sweating fucking bullets waiting for an aggressive, independent journalist to start asking questions and not take no for an answer. Why didn't you process those SARs? Who told you not to? That's what we need to know.

Because guys like Epstein are good for business. He brings in wealthy clients. Make them own that.

I personally think that the stuff that Epstein is relating to that could kill any Trump presidency is NOT the child sex trafficking thing. That's like the rite of passage to billionaire life, just background noise.

The stuff that would definitely definitely sink Trump is financial fraud and money laundering. Possibly proof to organised crime. Epstein alluded to this in the mails to Wolfe before the CNN election interview. Something about backdating contracts...

 

[Technarch]

Hose votes 427-1 to release the Epstein files

Dissenting vote is Clay Higgins (R-LA). Bill moves to Senate next where it is expected to pass.

I'm expecting the released files to be almost comically redacted, if not outright falsified.

 

[dzid]

I would assume the report/file is never strong enough. There are enough room that allow people to look the other ways. People would have been criminal charged to begin with if the files are that strong. There are probably a lot of stuff like Epstein's birthday cards. Probably a lot of files that worth look into, but people in power do not. With all these confusion, it is even easier to muddy the water (and DOJ will help with that as well).

Yes, the DOJ will evade and obfuscate as much as possible. So go after the soft targets like I said above. Why did the SARs get buried by the banks? Who authorized it? Who gave cover to pedophiles and sex traffickers? Why?

 

[LTParis]

I'm expecting the released files to be almost comically redacted, if not outright falsified.

Same. Problem is that if it is released, and falsified/redacted it will probably be enough relief from what Trump has been getting from the base that it becomes a non-issue. And frankly that is all he is looking for at this point, for it to go away. And if he can take down only Dems, all the better.

Sadly the one thing that has been sticking to him might not be so sticky as the days roll on.

 

[dzid]

I personally think that the stuff that Epstein is relating to that could kill any Trump presidency is NOT the child sex trafficking thing. That's like the rite of passage to billionaire life, just background noise.

The stuff that would definitely definitely sink Trump is financial fraud and money laundering. Possibly proof to organised crime. Epstein alluded to this in the mails to Wolfe before the CNN election interview. Something about backdating contracts...

I agree that the crimes include more than abuse of children, but I can't see that as background noise. It's all part of the culture of impunity, lawlessness and moral vacuum, and that's why it's important to expose it, condemn it and begin the effort to dismantle the structures that make it possible.

 

[monsterscraponme]

Same. Problem is that if it is released, and falsified/redacted it will probably be enough relief from what Trump has been getting from the base that it becomes a non-issue. And frankly that is all he is looking for at this point, for it to go away. And if he can take down only Dems, all the better.

Sadly the one thing that has been sticking to him might not be so sticky as the days roll on.

Perhaps that may be, but so far this has felt a bit different.

Over the past few months, Trump & company (Johnson, Bondi, etc) have been using a variety of desperate tactics to make this issue disappear. Johnson shut down the House. Representatives were personally pressured. Trump tried to draw lines in the sand with all sorts of antics and with the House vote (no matter what happens afterwards), he ultimately lost.

Take that and add the backdrop of inflation, Trump technically being a lame duck, a horrendous immigration policy, Trump's general health & demeanor, healthcare (and much more) and I think it's quite obvious that Trump has diminished power right now.

Earlier in this thread I suggested that this particular issue had enough to it to cause real fractures in MAGA. So far that is still playing out. The very public split with MTG (even if temporary) is pretty significant. It's not only MAGA cracks forming, but it also shows that the GOP is starting to openly ponder a post-Trump world, sooner rather than later.

Redacted or not, I didn't think this alone was ever going to bring it all down but it's definitely leaving cracks in the foundation that affect his and his administration's ability to carry out their fascist project and confidently project power.

As far as the conspiracy living on even if the files are released, of course. That's a feature, not a bug.

 

[Zod]

Perhaps he’s relying on the Senate to block/hold.

Well, the Senate has unanimously approved release, so it’s up to Trump now. I guess they believe that they have sufficiently doctored the files to protect Trump.

NYT

 

[Zich]

I don't know exactly what the play is here, but I don't trust it one bit.

 

[Technarch]

One thing to keep in mind is that this is Ro Khanna's Epstein Files Transparency Act, not Tom Massie's discharge petition which was being held up by Adelita Grijalva's non-swearing-in (and which still must be brought to the House floor for a vote next week). Supposedly the two bills are functionally identical, but I have my doubts. Many, many doubts.

 

[Gub]

If any files are released, I wonder how that will impact a potential pardon or commutation for Ghislaine Maxwell. Will DOJ redact/remove things involving Maxwell to preserve a possible deal that was struck with her?

 

[wco81]

I can't help it, but despite all her craziness i can get but get behind MTG in her fight for her fight for the release of the files.

The rumor is that MTG wanted to run for higher office in GA, like the Senate seat or governor.

But Trump showed her polls that she wouldn't do well at all, which is why she may be speaking against him and other Republicans, like saying they could have ended the shutdown, as well as the whole Epstein Files issue.

May also be why she's toned down her act.

 

[Pocky Is God]

I'm thinking they just did a CTRL-F/H and replaced Trump with DEMOCRAT over and over again. Throw in Soros a few times and maybe even Obama and released super doctored filth that no one believes is actually true.

 

[RefrigeratorCo.]

I'm thinking they just did a CTRL-F/H and replaced Trump with DEMOCRAT over and over again. Throw in Soros a few times and maybe even Obama and released super doctored filth that no one believes is actually true.

That's how I feel as well.. this is gona end up being served with a guaranteed hook.

Still needs to survive the senate and a Trump veto.
A whole bunch of randoms are going to get caught in the blast wave though.. people no one expects. Next few weeks are gona be real

 

[etr]

My bet is that they will release the bulk of the files and that no smoking guns will be found. This is not to say I doubt the claimed crimes, but there was no incentive for the DOJ to investigate and document enough to justify charges if it did not want to bring charges to begin with. I suspect the files will paint the picture of cases that could have yielded charges with enough follow-up, but had a blind eye turned until the trail was too cold to yield anything.

If the files are the nothing burger I suspect, though, I could see Pam Bondi given the ax. She talked up the files quite a bit, so a boring release is just going to drive a narrative she's holding back, even if she's not. She's played enough of a game here to warrant dismissal regardless, but Trump will pull the trigger not for that directly, but rather because it makes her a convenient scapegoat.

 

[concernUrsus]

There are a lot of nothing burger in the files. As someone has mentioned up thread, the most worthwhile investigation would be on the initial investigation and Epstein deal with the prosecutor(s).

 

[Crolis]

I just think it’s likely at worst more of what we already have seen. I mean you’ve already got Epstein saying Trump was with a victim. We have the story of various girls that already nobody believes. We have the Access Hollywood tape that he went on to be held liable for actually doing by a jury. He’s a convicted felon. Almost all of that was before the American people voted him in.

Short of a video of him having sex with a minor I just can’t see how any of this moves the needle from where we already are. Any new stuff will just be thrown on the pile and those who don’t believe any of it will continue to do so and the rest of us will just have our priors further validated.

I feel if there is anything big in there it will be for some of his allies who might face consequences but not him.

 

[sporkman]

There’s an interview in the NYT opinion where ro kohanna explains that Epstein is important to left behind Americans because they view the Davos set as an “Epstein class” which is they are rich people who sexually exploit poor people. Virginia giuffre could have been anyone’s high school daughter from Ohio.

https://www.nytimes.com/2025/11/18/opinion/ro-khanna-epstein-files-trump.html?smid=nytcore-ios-share

I think what is interesting about MTG is that she’s sympathetic to Palestine and she hasn’t gone along with the spin about Israel. She has stated the truth that absent a fix for Obamacare rates for everyday people goes up. She seems impervious to the right wing political correctness that is common in the gop.

I view Epstein more as an avenue where dissent against trump takes shape. It’s about time. I can’t imagine it being any fun to be in the GOP either right now.

 

[dzid]

I just think it’s likely at worst more of what we already have seen.

I think there's incredibly disturbing material among those files, and it may well come to light. As for "at worst", I shudder to think.

Why might Epstein have been "gifted" that New York mansion?

I mean you’ve already got Epstein saying Trump was with a victim.

Liars that lie effortlessly.

We have the story of various girls that already nobody believes.

Nobody? I believe them. Wonder about the things they don't speak of.

We have the Access Hollywood tape that he went on to be held liable for actually doing by a jury.

Access Hollywood? Jury? Did I miss something? ETA: ah, I get you - I think of that case as the overarching conspiracy and the Access Hollywood tape as one part of it

He’s a convicted felon. Almost all of that was before the American people voted him in.

Short of a video of him having sex with a minor I just can’t see how any of this moves the needle from where we already are. Any new stuff will just be thrown on the pile and those who don’t believe any of it will continue to do so and the rest of us will just have out priora further validated.

I've known a few really shitty, scary people in my life. The people involved in this are so much worse.

I feel if there is anything big in there it will be for some of his allies who might face consequences but not him.

We'll see.

ETA: When I say "liars that lie effortlessly", I don't mean to say I disbelieve that particular assertion. Just keep in mind who these people are and their track records.

 

[dzid]

There’s an interview in the NYT opinion where ro kohanna explains that Epstein is important to left behind Americans because they view the Davos set as an “Epstein class” which is they are rich people who sexually exploit poor people. Virginia giuffre could have been anyone’s high school daughter from Ohio.

https://www.nytimes.com/2025/11/18/opinion/ro-khanna-epstein-files-trump.html?smid=nytcore-ios-share

I think what is interesting about MTG is that she’s sympathetic to Palestine and she hasn’t gone along with the spin about Israel. She has stated the truth that absent a fix for Obamacare rates for everyday people goes up. She seems impervious to the right wing political correctness that is common in the gop.

I view Epstein more as an avenue where dissent against trump takes shape. It’s about time. I can’t imagine it being any fun to be in the GOP either right now.

Marjorie Taylor Greene may be an actual MAGA true believer, or about as close as one gets, and I do not think that's something Trump and the people behind him were prepared for.

 

[dio82]

Well, the Senate has unanimously approved release, so it’s up to Trump now. I guess they believe that they have sufficiently doctored the files to protect Trump.

NYT

That is actually surprising. I expected lots of procedural maneuvers and delaying tactics in the Senate.

 

[dio82]

I just think it’s likely at worst more of what we already have seen. I mean you’ve already got Epstein saying Trump was with a victim. We have the story of various girls that already nobody believes. We have the Access Hollywood tape that he went on to be held liable for actually doing by a jury. He’s a convicted felon. Almost all of that was before the American people voted him in.

Short of a video of him having sex with a minor I just can’t see how any of this moves the needle from where we already are. Any new stuff will just be thrown on the pile and those who don’t believe any of it will continue to do so and the rest of us will just have out priora further validated.

I feel if there is anything big in there it will be for some of his allies who might face consequences but not him.

The much bigger topic is that one mail where Epstein is talking to Wolff about SARs (suspicious activity reports: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Suspicious_activity_report ) being buried and contracts getting backdated. The stuff that Epstein must have on Trump cannot be directly related to his sex trafficking ring, because that would implicate him (Epstein) the most. The Epstein files were focused on sex trafficking, not financial crime, so there will be hundreds of leads in that area that are unexplored

 

[Megalodon]

That is actually surprising. I expected lots of procedural maneuvers and delaying tactics in the Senate.

We're in hot potato mode. It's looking like Johnson was expecting the Senate to introduce amendments and send it back to the House but Thune fucked him by passing as is.

 

[Technarch]

The much bigger topic is that one mail where Epstein is talking to Wolff about SARs (suspicious activity reports: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Suspicious_activity_report ) being buried and contracts getting backdated. The stuff that Epstein must have on Trump cannot be directly related to his sex trafficking ring, because that would implicate him (Epstein) the most. The Epstein files were focused on sex trafficking, not financial crime, so there will be hundreds of leads in that area that are unexplored

There's evidence that Trump was running his own sex trafficking ring. The whole reason the two had a falling out was because Epstein poached a girl from Trump's ring for his own ring.