Epstein client list, does it exist or not?

[Megalodon]

Something else I didn't realize initially is that the bill requires the DOJ to report to congress on what it redacts, so while I wouldn't trust the DOJ to actually follow the law, a lot of people not known for being smart or careful are going to have a lot of opportunities to fuck up in any sort of coverup scenario. Unclear if all concerned understood that was in the bill when they voted.

https://www.congress.gov/bill/119th-congress/house-bill/4405/text

 

[dzid]

Something else I didn't realize initially is that the bill requires the DOJ to report to congress on what it redacts, so while I wouldn't trust the DOJ to actually follow the law, a lot of people not known for being smart or careful are going to have a lot of opportunities to fuck up in any sort of coverup scenario. Unclear if all concerned understood that was in the bill when they voted.

https://www.congress.gov/bill/119th-congress/house-bill/4405/text

That's a good point, and some might be nervously looking in the direction of Ms. Halligan and her case against Comey, and thinking they don't want any of what that judge is doling out.

Heather Cox Richardson, on her youtube channel earlier today, shared some thoughts on the files and the chances the American people will see them. At about the 11:30 mark she starts to discuss the question of whether the files have been gutted.

 

[BrangdonJ]

I would assume the report/file is never strong enough. There are enough room that allow people to look the other ways. People would have been criminal charged to begin with if the files are that strong. There are probably a lot of stuff like Epstein's birthday cards. Probably a lot of files that worth look into, but people in power do not. With all these confusion, it is even easier to muddy the water (and DOJ will help with that as well).

I agree. What we've seen so far has been at most suggestive or circumstantial evidence. We know Epstein was guilty, but he was careful enough to keep it out of the emails.

If there's anything, it'll be something whose significance isn't immediately apparent. It may take the form of something minor that happens to corroborate testimony from his known victims that has previously been dismissed. For example, if I was Katie Johnson's representative, I'd be combing through the files looking for anything that might get her believed.

 

[dzid]

I agree. What we've seen so far has been at most suggestive or circumstantial evidence. We know Epstein was guilty, but he was careful enough to keep it out of the emails.

If there's anything, it'll be something whose significance isn't immediately apparent. It may take the form of something minor that happens to corroborate testimony from his known victims that has previously been dismissed. For example, if I was Katie Johnson's representative, I'd be combing through the files looking for anything that might get her believed.

Circumstantial evidence is evidence. Criminals are convicted on the basis of circumstantial evidence all the time.

 

[LTParis]

So maybe this thread should just be renamed "The Epstein files strike back". Because something tells me as people dig there is going to be a whole lot more in store.

I caught this on a TikTok and then verified it through the search of the files (https://journaliststudio.google.com...d=5b719a126e514363_092314e384a58618_0&dapvm=2)

Epstein and Bannon were chatting in 2018, three days before Kavanaugh was sworn in, about overturning Chevron. Epstein calling Kavanaugh "reliable" and literally commenting how his installation is literally to dismantle government

"If Chevron were overturned and Gorsuch voted to overturn it, such a decision would overrule a case which had its origins in an administrative ruling made by his own mother."

Yep. Of course not only did Kavanaugh, Gorsuch, and ACB lie about Stare Decisis on the stand but Kavanaugh was installed and the seed was planted to overturn cases like Chevron.

Oh the quagmire we are in.

 

[dzid]

So maybe this thread should just be renamed "The Epstein files strike back". Because something tells me as people dig there is going to be a whole lot more in store.

I caught this on a TikTok and then verified it through the search of the files (https://journaliststudio.google.com...d=5b719a126e514363_092314e384a58618_0&dapvm=2)

Epstein and Bannon were chatting in 2018, three days before Kavanaugh was sworn in, about overturning Chevron. Epstein calling Kavanaugh "reliable" and literally commenting how his installation is literally to dismantle government

Yep. Of course not only did Kavanaugh, Gorsuch, and ACB lie about Stare Decisis on the stand but Kavanaugh was installed and the seed was planted to overturn cases like Chevron.

Oh the quagmire we are in.

It is a quagmire, but it's also an opportunity. I hope more and more material like what you've posted surfaces. Because it's looking more and more like a conspiracy. No "theory" needed. The American people that don't benefit from the conspiracy (obviously, almost all of us) should be enraged. There's plenty to be enraged about already.

I'm a fan of using rage for productive purposes instead of dissipating heat.

 

[dzid]

When I say "productive purposes", this is what I had in mind. I know it comes off as a rant, but having read it over again, I still mean it. The institutions won't fix themselves, but the rot is clearly visible. I'm just spitballing, really, but I'm so angry.

 

[Crolis]

Nobody? I believe them. Wonder about the things they don't speak of.

I mean I believe them too, my point is that if enough people actually believed them we’d already know he’s a pedo. Like what evidence in there is going to be more damning than a person who was a minor at the time explicitly saying she gave Trump a handy at the Epstein mansion?

 

[BrangdonJ]

Circumstantial evidence is evidence. Criminals are convicted on the basis of circumstantial evidence all the time.

Yes, and people believe victim's testimony, too. We shouldn't need the emails when we have victim accounts.

 

[dzid]

I mean I believe them too, my point is that if enough people actually believed them we’d already know he’s a pedo. Like what evidence in there is going to be more damning than a person who was a minor at the time explicitly saying she gave Trump a handy at the Epstein mansion?

My hope is that as the fractures spread, some room opens up in some people's minds to begin questioning things. That won't happen with many people, I'm sure, but I think some will, and more over time. Every new drip that comes out we should try to use to facilitate that process.

No guarantees.

 

[dzid]

Yep. Of course not only did Kavanaugh, Gorsuch, and ACB lie about Stare Decisis on the stand but Kavanaugh was installed and the seed was planted to overturn cases like Chevron.

Sounds like something to craft merciless messaging targeted at Roberts, for starters.

 

[papadage]

Sounds like something to craft merciless messaging targeted at Roberts, for starters.

Not Roberts. Roberts is not running. We need to target the Republican Party and use this as one of many factors in attacking them on siding with "MAGA billionaries" agains the vast majority. Except for a very few highly-engaged voters, Chevron is a complete mystery that makes us sound out of touch. Sure, it's important, but it's terrible election messaging.

Personally, I love "Kavanaugh Stops". Simple, direct, and lays blame for racist policing with an important swing electorate we need to win back. Plus it tars that fucker for life.

 

[dzid]

Not Roberts. Roberts is not running. We need to target the Republican Party and use this as one of many factors in attacking them on siding with "MAGA billionaries" agains the vast majority. Except for a very few highly-engaged voters, Chevron is a complete mystery that makes us sound out of touch. Sure, it's important, but it's terrible election messaging.

Personally, I love "Kavanaugh Stops". Simple, direct, and lays blame for racist policing with an important swing electorate we need to win back. Plus it tars that fucker for life.

I'm not thinking in an electoral sense, but to put pressure on him in terms of the legacy of his court. I've been following some of the young progressive YouTubers, and some focus on short-form, very targeted, MAGA-style messaging. Why not?

"Kavanaugh Stops" are a winner, though.

 

[wco81]

Long after Trump is out of the WH, they will have to release the real files, to set the record straight on what Trump did.

Remind those who voted in Trump, enabled him, what kind of filth he was.

 

[Lt_Storm]

Short of a video of him having sex with a minor I just can’t see how any of this moves the needle from where we already are. Any new stuff will just be thrown on the pile and those who don’t believe any of it will continue to do so and the rest of us will just have our priors further validated.

Honestly, I sort of doubt that a video of him having sex with a minor would have much impact. It really feels like it would have to be a dead girl or live boy to move the needle at this point. I fear that anything else would just be evidence of his "superior manhood".

 

[Louis XVI]

Honestly, I sort of doubt that a video of him having sex with a minor would have much impact. It really feels like it would have to be a dead girl or live boy too move the needle at this point. I fear that anything else would just be evidence of his "superior manhood".

I’m still rooting for a video (honestly, photos will do) of him submissively with a live Bill Clinton. If anything can move the needle, that would.

 

[ahmerali]

Honestly, I sort of doubt that a video of him having sex with a minor would have much impact. It really feels like it would have to be a dead girl or live boy too move the needle at this point. I fear that anything else would just be evidence of his "superior manhood".

I have used the line 'dead girl or live boy' in the past.

Although the way things are now, I don't think 'dead girl' matters. Underage girls obviously don't matter. "She was dead when I got here" would, ironically, cement MAGA minds in his favor, even, because Biden and brown people killed her.

'Live boy' might not even matter so much. "Live Democrat politician' would probably be somewhat of a tipping point if it could be proven.

 

[Ecmaster76]

This thread is already gross enough by its very nature. Could we maybe stop with all the graphic speculation?

I'd like to keep my lunch down today

 

[thunderous_funker]

This thread is already gross enough by its very nature. Could we maybe stop with all the graphic speculation?

I'd like to keep my lunch down today

Not going to disagree, but I have that involuntary reflex considering any kind of intimacy involving DJT (or Clinton, for that matter). Even the legal and consenting kind.

That said (and guilty of bringing up the same Red Lines myself earlier in the thread), I'd also prefer if the thread didn't plumb these depths.

 

[Gandhim3]

Long after Trump is out of the WH, they will have to release the real files, to set the record straight on what Trump did.

Remind those who voted in Trump, enabled him, what kind of filth he was.

What makes you think Trump plans to leave the Whitehouse while still alive?

And those voters will do the same thing they did when GWB was out of office - “George who? Never heard of the guy”

Trump is giving his voters exactly what they wanted - pain and suffering to own the libs. Doesn’t matter they are suffering too - as long as brown and black folks suffer more, that is the whole point.

As for the Epstein files, I expect nothing but docs marked up completely with signature Trump sharpie black.

 

[Crolis]

I guess my worry is that Dems and people like me are putting way too many eggs in this basket on a mental level. We've already done it with Trumps other legal issues. Feel like the default is that nothing happens to Trump no matter what comes out. The primary messaging of the Democratic party until they have lost or are in power or the least likely scenario they get a win is ACA subsidies or a broader healthcare fix. The Epstein files should be a side show.

 

[Megalodon]

I guess my worry is that Dems and people like me are putting way too many eggs in this basket on a mental level. We've already done it with Trumps other legal issues. Feel like the default is that nothing happens to Trump no matter what comes out. The primary messaging of the Democratic party until they have lost or are in power or the least likely scenario they get a win is ACA subsidies or a broader healthcare fix. The Epstein files should be a side show.

The right way to think about this is that everything that inconveniences, hinders, and weakens Trump is a good thing. Don't follow it expecting it to "work" (whatever that might mean), enjoy it because he damages his standing by mishandling it, regardless of what's actually in there or whether it sees the light of day. Maybe they attempt a coverup—take a look at the Comey hearing today and see if you think it'll be a careful, airtight coverup.

 

[Elrond]

I guess my worry is that Dems and people like me are putting way too many eggs in this basket on a mental level. We've already done it with Trumps other legal issues. Feel like the default is that nothing happens to Trump no matter what comes out. The primary messaging of the Democratic party until they have lost or are in power or the least likely scenario they get a win is ACA subsidies or a broader healthcare fix. The Epstein files should be a side show.

Yeah, after the Mueller stuff, I've pretty much assumed nothing of significance will ever happen. Anyone who doesn't know who Trump is at this point is deluding themself, and any additional evidence probably isn't going to move the needle. This era of alternative facts, AI, deepfakes, biased media ecosytem, etc makes it even more difficult to convince people of what is actually happening.

All I can say is try not to get too invested in this stuff, grab the popcorn, and just sit back and watch.

 

[Technarch]

I guess my worry is that Dems and people like me are putting way too many eggs in this basket on a mental level. We've already done it with Trumps other legal issues. Feel like the default is that nothing happens to Trump no matter what comes out. The primary messaging of the Democratic party until they have lost or are in power or the least likely scenario they get a win is ACA subsidies or a broader healthcare fix. The Epstein files should be a side show.

We're never going to get to 67 Senate votes to convict and remove. But the Epstein Files have proven to be one of the rare issues where MAGA wasn't buying the excuses. To be fair there's a MAGA core that's suicidally loyal to Trump, but the release of the files could be enough to hamstring his administration.

 

[Shavano]

That's a good point, and some might be nervously looking in the direction of Ms. Halligan and her case against Comey, and thinking they don't want any of what that judge is doling out.

Heather Cox Richardson, on her youtube channel earlier today, shared some thoughts on the files and the chances the American people will see them. At about the 11:30 mark she starts to discuss the question of whether the files have been gutted.

Unnamed co-conspirator number one has entered the chat.

 

[Shavano]

What makes you think Trump plans to leave the Whitehouse while still alive?

I'm OK with that as long as it happens before January 20, 2027.

And those voters will do the same thing they did when GWB was out of office - “George who? Never heard of the guy”

Trump is giving his voters exactly what they wanted - pain and suffering to own the libs. Doesn’t matter they are suffering too - as long as brown and black folks suffer more, that is the whole point.

His patina is wearing thin. Generic Democrats are now favored by registered voters by 14 points over Republicans for the 2026 midterms.

The biggest issue with voters is inflation. But dissatisfaction on one issue tends to bleed over to others.

As for the Epstein files, I expect nothing but docs marked up completely with signature Trump sharpie black.

 

[Technarch]

Trump signed the bill, so Bondi now has 30 days for shenanigans before she has to release the files.

Any guesses as to whether the files will become "classified" or be "part of ongoing investigations"?

 

[Welcome to Darwin]

Trump signed the bill, so Bondi now has 30 days for shenanigans before she has to release the files.

Any guesses as to whether the files will become "classified" or be "part of ongoing investigations"?

Why not just burn them? Sure, maybe Bondi resigns, but does anyone think there would be real consequences for anyone for destroying the files?

 

[Bardon]

There’s an interview in the NYT opinion where ro kohanna explains that Epstein is important to left behind Americans because they view the Davos set as an “Epstein class” which is they are rich people who sexually exploit poor people. Virginia giuffre could have been anyone’s high school daughter from Ohio.

https://www.nytimes.com/2025/11/18/opinion/ro-khanna-epstein-files-trump.html?smid=nytcore-ios-share

I think what is interesting about MTG is that she’s sympathetic to Palestine and she hasn’t gone along with the spin about Israel. She has stated the truth that absent a fix for Obamacare rates for everyday people goes up. She seems impervious to the right wing political correctness that is common in the gop.

I view Epstein more as an avenue where dissent against trump takes shape. It’s about time. I can’t imagine it being any fun to be in the GOP either right now.

I'm sorry "she hasn't gone along with the spin about Israel". This is the woman who blamed forest fires on supposed Jewish Space Lasers!

 

[dio82]

I'm sorry "she hasn't gone along with the spin about Israel". This is the woman who blamed forest fires on supposed Jewish Space Lasers!

We can be thankfull that she goes full retard and full force on conspiracy theories. The only reason that the discharge petition passed was because she very strongly believes that democrats are lynchpins in the whole sex-trafficking billionaire cabal, while being totally blasé and ignorant of Trump's involvement.

 

[BrangdonJ]

Why not just burn them? Sure, maybe Bondi resigns, but does anyone think there would be real consequences for anyone for destroying the files?

Currently it's emails. Presumably there are multiple copies. They would have to be deleted, not burned, and even then a good forensics expert could probably get them back.

 

[dio82]

Currently it's emails. Presumably there are multiple copies. They would have to be deleted, not burned, and even then a good forensics expert could probably get them back.

AFAIK, we are talking about the docket from Epstein's court proceedings. Those are nearly impossible to delete outright, or at least it would necessitate an amount of coordination and skill that is far, far, far beyod the means of the Trump regime of loyalist incompetents.

 

[Megalodon]

AFAIK, we are talking about the docket from Epstein's court proceedings. Those are nearly impossible to delete outright, or at least it would necessitate an amount of coordination and skill that is far, far, far beyod the means of the Trump regime of loyalist incompetents.

I don't buy that anyone involved would understand what would be damaging to Trump, understand when they'd be revealing the extent of their tampering, or understand or be able to plan around the idea that Trump is more guilty than basically everyone else. This should be obvious from the fact it was HoR Republicans that released a huge trove of e-mails, many of which turned out to be damaging to Trump.

 

[Shavano]

Trump signed the bill, so Bondi now has 30 days for shenanigans before she has to release the files.

Any guesses as to whether the files will become "classified" or be "part of ongoing investigations"?

Just in time for Christmas.

 

[dio82]

I don't buy that anyone involved would understand what would be damaging to Trump, understand when they'd be revealing the extent of their tampering, or understand or be able to plan around the idea that Trump is more guilty than basically everyone else. This should be obvious from the fact it was HoR Republicans that released a huge trove of e-mails, many of which turned out to be damaging to Trump.

That comes on top. It will be a hilarious shit show that keeps on delivering for the coming months to years. Lots of courts, lots of outrage, lots of miscalculations by team fascist.

 

[DarthSlack]

Why not just burn them? Sure, maybe Bondi resigns, but does anyone think there would be real consequences for anyone for destroying the files?

This sort of thing will just blow up in Trump's face. Too many people have seen the various parts of what the DoJ has over too many years. There's also corroborating evidence outside of the DoJ's possession. So any attempt to delete or alter the DoJ files is going to be noticed because everything they do release is immediately going to be analyzed at the sub-atomic level by multiple parties.

What's a lot more likely is that Trump's order about investigating Democrats in the Epstein files is going to be used to prevent release. Sure, there will be howls, but this is the exact sort of excuse that Trump has used to not release his tax forms for decades. The real question will be if Democrats can continue to make this an issue in the face of Bondi stonewalling. If they retake the House next year that could help as they could compel Bondi to testify.

 

[dzid]

My wife got beat really bad, raped and impregnated when she was fourteen. That was after Roe v. Wade. She didn't live to see it struck down. The fact I'm just watching this go by until eventually they'll just get away with it and do it again, but worse, it's killing me.

ETA: It's that some of that never heals, it fucked up her life with the nightmares and everything else. That's what those victims of Epstein go though, or probably worse. I can't imagine what they're thinking now.

 

[dzid]

People do shit like this when they get away with too much. Like having almost all the wealth and then not paying taxes. That's the kind of asshole who's a client of Epstein's.

Just getting them to pay some taxes would be better than nothing.

 

[Locke]

This sort of thing will just blow up in Trump's face. Too many people have seen the various parts of what the DoJ has over too many years. There's also corroborating evidence outside of the DoJ's possession. So any attempt to delete or alter the DoJ files is going to be noticed because everything they do release is immediately going to be analyzed at the sub-atomic level by multiple parties.

What's a lot more likely is that Trump's order about investigating Democrats in the Epstein files is going to be used to prevent release. Sure, there will be howls, but this is the exact sort of excuse that Trump has used to not release his tax forms for decades. The real question will be if Democrats can continue to make this an issue in the face of Bondi stonewalling. If they retake the House next year that could help as they could compel Bondi to testify.

Dozens of victims are still alive and their lawyers probably have copies of paperwork.

Various courts, investigative agencies, et al have copies of various bits.

If bit go missing it would be very easy for one of them to call bullshit and at that point the stench of coverup is enough where even the american political media would catch a whiff of it.

 

[Megalodon]

That comes on top. It will be a hilarious shit show that keeps on delivering for the coming months to years. Lots of courts, lots of outrage, lots of miscalculations by team fascist.

Case in point, Senator Wyden is pushing for an investication into JP Morgan Chase's angling of Epstein's accounts.


View: https://bsky.app/profile/wyden.senate.gov/post/3m633d66lhk2l


He reports the bank filed suspicious activity reports on ~4 million in transactions prior to Epstein's arrest, then 1.3 billion in transactions after, as well as claiming executives coached Epstein in how to structure his transactions to cause less suspicion. He's pushing for the treasury department to release the material it has, which puts Republicans in the position of either a) defending a "too big to fail" bank or b) opening up Trump to even more damaging disclosures.