Elon Musk loses fight with ex-Twitter staffer, must pay $600K

Elon Musk’s 24-hour email ultimatum unfairly dismissed Twitter staff, court says.

See full article...

 

[AmanoJyaku]

https://www.motherjones.com/politic...-of-retribution-at-the-republican-convention/

Realized I should share the story.

I must have missed something, because there's no evidence there. You have a vague, throwaway claim from a guy who's likely nuts.

 

[SGJ]

UK Civil collections are fairly strong. IIRC Delta Airlines found out the hard way that Bailiffs can block your checkin counters until you pay.

Delta owed a passenger a $3,400 refund and hadn't paid. Bailiffs were appointed and turned up at Heathrow, closed the Delta check-in and threatened to seize a plane. With queues growing and police and airport security powerless to stop them the bailiffs only stood down after a Delta manager paid the amount due (the original refund plus costs) on her personal credit card! It was filmed for a reality TV program called "Call the Bailiffs". The same sort of thing has happened to Wizz Air (at Luton Airport) which caused a flight to be delayed which, of course, resulted in Wizz Air being liable for payments to all those on board!

 

[sd70mac]

From the article:
"X has not commented on the ruling but is likely disappointed by the loss."
(Emphasis mine.)

Please stop doing this. If X hasn't (or won't) comment, just leave it at that and don't make any assumptions of how they feel about it.

Most other times, I would agree with you on this, but it is not just X/Twitter and Musk who would benefit from a victory in this case, it is many corporations also run by bean counters.

By the way, the difference between Musk and most other bean counters is that Musk has actual experience with the nuts and bolts of engineering and operations, also like a former (but still disliked, including by myself) CEO of AT&T. Most bean counters come from accounting or MBA backgrounds.

 

[MrTom]

Reminds me of that story “Disgraceful”: Messy ToS update allegedly locks Roku devices until users give in.
Too bad users of Roku couldn't get the same payout.

 

[AmanoJyaku]

He makes the claim, it should be investigated.

No journalist is going to investigate this claim, because nothing was said. Most important, proving this claim requires sources inside X.

Ars has never demonstrated having such sources, which is part of why they're ignoring you. That, and the lack evidence.

 

[KingKrayola]

Aren't your taxes higher, though? (I ask with true interest, not trying to play "gotcha".)

On about £55k I think effective rate is about 30-35%? Employer (me) pays an extra 13.9% payroll tax on top. I'm state educated through-and-through, graduated before fees and loans went mental, and use the NHS for everything so I get/got my money's worth.

Not low, and employment bears a heavier toll than capital gains or dividends, but not so different to a lot of the US?

Europe can be higher. Scandinavia you pay a fair bit of tax but get loads of benefit. Italy has a bunch of surprise local taxes and fees iirc.

We debated hiring someone in the US as my business partner is Californian and has contacts out there, but salaries plus taxes plus healthcare liabilities made it pretty tricky.

 

[Mus Musculus Circensis]

For a "Senior Executive" who was an employee for NINE years, Twitter wasn't paying much! The original 3 months severance was $25,000 soooo he was earning the equivalent of $100,000 per year? Even with stock options (which how is higher up people are often compensated in addition to salary) and maybe other benefits (which he might not have retained after employment ended), that compensation isn't great. Also, Twitter's stock isn't publicly traded anymore, so who knows how much it is worth for purposes of stock options!

I'm glad this guy won in court. I don't hate or dislike Elon Musk, but I'm disappointed that he didn't have (or didn't bother to consult) internal counsel prior to trying make continued employment "Opt-In" at Twitter!

I think a title such as "Senior Executive" doesn't tell us much (some companies have funny titles), but in most European countries and the UK (where I am), there would be multiple other benefits on top of that base salary.

For example, I am not an "executive", but working on Fintech I do earn a larger base salary. I do not have any options, but I have a 20% percent performance bonus, and another 20% flexible fund. The latter is always guaranteed and I can either draw as salary, or use the money to increase, for example, pension plan contributions (which are doubled by my employer). Then I have a paid for life insurance worth four times my yearly salary; private medical plan for me and my wife (paid for by the company, and a supplement to what the NHS provide), as well as 30 days holidays plus all the statutory holidays ( called Bank Holidays in the UK).

The company I work for was bought by an American company some five years ago. I can guarantee to you that most of my peers in the US have way less in the way of benefits than we have over here. Besides, excepting for Dublin, the cost of living in the Republic of Ireland is reasonably low…

Edit: After reading the report from the Journal linked to at the end of this article, his salary was considerably more than $100,000.

The remuneration losses are based on Rooney's Twitter remuneration of €323,560 made up of €151,225 in pay and €172,335 in deferred cash consideration.

 

[MHStrawn]

Perhaps in the short term. It's not easy to retain top talent if you treat them like shit.

Certainly limits options of such employees, especially considering the never-ending consolidation of virtually every industry.

 

[csl_]

Aha, perhaps this is why Musk has been getting his nose in Irish affairs lately and trying to start a culture war here. Including, as I recall, endorsing Conor McGregor for president of Ireland - a mostly decorative role that all the same should not go to a man with more concussions than sense, and certainly utterly none of Elon's business.

 

[EngineerX]

On one hand it is great someone got a win. On the other hand it is 2 years after the fact and Twitface will appeal.

Honestly I think on appeal penalty interest at 25% APY should accrue. If you think you will win on the merits then great but if not best to stop digging a hole. That is the problem with "the best justice money can buy". Elon can drag it out for 2-10 years and then pay essentially couch cushion money if he exhausts every option to avoid paying.

Thanks for bringing Vance into it

 

[daveishereagain]

There isn't a day in existence that I would have ever clicked 'yes' to such a blatant attempt at extortion on such vague and nebulous terms such as 'hardcore' (a favorite expression of Musk and what it means known only to him) with no concept of what the fuck the e-mail was even saying let alone it being a complete departure from business etiquette and process.
It's all part of the Musk MO where bullying meets any reasonable disagreement with his actions/intent.
He has no connection with people as anything but a tool to be exploited and, if anyone dare disagree, squash them like a bug because he can.
My revulsion has no bounds.

 

[Raxiel]

Not to worry, they can pay it out of that huge pile of ad money that will be rolling in...

Any day now...

 

[OrvGull]

https://www.motherjones.com/politic...-of-retribution-at-the-republican-convention/

Realized I should share the story.

I don't see anything in there about him having access to Twitter DMs.

I do think it would be pretty daft for any political operative to use Twitter DMs for anything, given the site's poor security and the potential for mischief.

 

[OrvGull]

I've wondered about this as well. When the layoffs were underway, many commented that Twitter would be entirely hobbled. I'm certainly not qualified to assess corporate operations, especially at this scale; but the outward face of Twitter doesn't look much different to me. No doubt some folks know more about this than I do. How it is possible that ⅔ are gone and the company is functionally nearly the same? (and please allow me some error bars here).

Every time they try to have a big event, the site crashes. They also seem to have abandoned pretty much any additional development; the site very much seems to be in "maintenance mode" with very few improvements or changes. It's also probably true that Twitter was somewhat bloated when Elon bought it, although probably not as bloated as he claimed.

 

[blown_auratone]

Dear, sweet Ars Technica: Could you please choose a less impish and smug image of Elon to post when you're publishing an article about his bad actions? Dude doesn't deserve the flattery.

 

[Statistical]

I've wondered about this as well. When the layoffs were underway, many commented that Twitter would be entirely hobbled. I'm certainly not qualified to assess corporate operations, especially at this scale; but the outward face of Twitter doesn't look much different to me. No doubt some folks know more about this than I do. How it is possible that ⅔ are gone and the company is functionally nearly the same? (and please allow me some error bars here).

If you consider losing essentially all ad revenue, moderation (related to losing all ad revenue) and bleeding money as it circles the drain sure it is the same. A significant portion of the people canned were people who clean up childporn, deal with hate speech, doxing, abuse/stalking, etc, AND act as BRAND LIASONS for high spending advertisers who don't want their ads next to objectionable content. Sure Elon saved money on the expense side firing them and then lost essentially 85%+ of ad revenue on the revenue side making the financials of Twitter far worse..

So yeah if the goal is for Twitter to circle the drain and lose billions before Elon gets bored and pulls the plug in a couple years pretty much nothing has changed. Well one thing changed twitter can't do livestreams without crashing anymore but I am all in favor of Elon "helping" his favorite fascist.

 

[daveishereagain]

I've wondered about this as well. When the layoffs were underway, many commented that Twitter would be entirely hobbled. I'm certainly not qualified to assess corporate operations, especially at this scale; but the outward face of Twitter doesn't look much different to me. No doubt some folks know more about this than I do. How it is possible that ⅔ are gone and the company is functionally nearly the same? (and please allow me some error bars here).

How is X 'functionally the same' as Twitter? It's become a Nazi cesspool with endless bots and constant breaches of (what used to be) TOS. and Musk who bans any criticism of himself.
If it doesn't look different to you I guess you're in the above demographic.

 

[daveishereagain]

Dear, sweet Ars Technica: Could you please choose a less impish and smug image of Elon to post when you're publishing an article about his bad actions? Dude doesn't deserve the flattery.

I think the image clearly shows what an asshole he is. Impish and smug is all he got, dude. We all know guys like him.

 

[s73v3r]

How would twitter pay this guy? Twitter doesn't have any money. Their profits were always negative even before musk sank the company by telling advertisers to go f themselves.

Elongated Muskrat is the new Mike Pillow. Maybe Musk should look at history: how trying to befriend a malignant narcissist worked out so well for the lumpy pillows.

Not having profits is not the same as not having money. They have some advertisers, so they are getting some revenues.

 

[s73v3r]

A guy invited to the RNC who has connections as well. He makes the claim, it should be investigated.

The evidence I spoke of was that it was said. On the RNC floor. Don’t gaslight.

I think your response is a case in point. I am asking for it to be looked into, because there is literally nothing stopping it from happening. You seem to want to dismiss it out of hand.

Sus.

Edit. One additional sentence

Was it caught on video? Did the guy show the access he had?

One person saying another person said something is not evidence.

 

[s73v3r]

My heart bleeds for the useless wankers that got canned.

Given how bad Monday night's stream went, they must not have been useless.

 

[Fnord666]

(I don't really need to add the /s do I?)

you must be new here.

(Of course you're not but posted for the lols)

 

[Eye of Cassandra]

I don't hate or dislike Elon Musk, but I'm disappointed that he didn't have (or didn't bother to consult) internal counsel prior to trying make continued employment "Opt-In" at Twitter!

He doesn't care about things like that. His constant refrain at Twitter was "Let them sue."

https://meincmagazine.com/tech-policy...awsuits-try-to-force-twitter-aka-x-to-pay-up/

The class-action complaint in US District Court for the Northern District of California points to a Business Insider report that said, "in response to concerns about not paying vendors who provided services to or performed work for Twitter, Musk told Twitter employees, repeatedly, to 'let them sue.'"

A Financial Times article had a similar anecdote. "Elon would always say, 'Let them sue,' it was a constant refrain... It's all very short-term thinking," a former senior staffer reportedly said.

 

[AmanoJyaku]

Was it caught on video? Did the guy show the access he had?

One person saying another person said something is not evidence.

The journal is Mother Jones, and they have a reputation for accuracy. What they reported very likely happened.

It's just PhysicaNova claimed something they never reported, so you should be attacking them, not the journalists.

 

[jimjam]

HA! Wait.. You're joking right? Please tell me you're joking.

Anyone who doesn't have their lips superglued to Musk's sphincter knows the technical issues weren't caused by a "DDOS"

 

[OrvGull]

Anyone who doesn't have their lips superglued to Musk's sphincter knows the technical issues weren't caused by a "DDOS"

To be fair, having 2 million people try to tune in to a livestream when you've only paid for enough hardware to handle half that is a KIND of DDoS, just not an intentional one.

 

[duncansil]

At one point I admired Musk for his innovation and ability to get things done but I now see the human cost and general assery, and I just cannot tolerate him anymore. I live in a very rural community and my only choice for usable internet is Starlink. I need it for work. I'm not sure why I am writing this other than to say, would someone else please come up with a decent rural internet option so I never have to send another cent to Musk? Please.

 

[Maestro4k]

In what world can one use "fair" and "Musk" in the same sentence?

"Stating that Elon Musk is a huge flaming asshole with the world's most fragile ego is a fair assessment of the 'man'." contains both and is accurate.

 

[ItchyPoo]

Agreed, if we're going to speculate without evidence here's mine:

...but it caused Musk to take another hit of K and call the plaintiff a pedophile.

I figured they were out back celebrating the loss by sacrificing a pony… while doing mounds of k.

 

[graylshaped]

"Stating that Elon Musk is a huge flaming asshole with the world's most fragile ego is a fair assessment of the 'man'." contains both and is accurate.

Granted! I was expressing surprise about the idea of being fair TO a man who has never and would never reciprocate, which somehow doesn't seem... fair.

 

[Snarky Robot]

My understanding is that he's primarily an asshole to under-performers

That’s a fun thing to say about minorities, especially the Jewish people he agrees are responsible for bringing those minorities to America in an effort to replace them.

Or is racism and transphobia not “asshole” material for you?

 

[sjl]

To be fair, having 2 million people try to tune in to a livestream when you've only paid for enough hardware to handle half that is a KIND of DDoS, just not an intentional one.

That depends on how you define intent. I'm sure Twitler intended to have a massive livestream and didn't put enough effort into making sure it would work, so you could argue that the DDoS was intentional... on Twitler's part.

 

[williamlondon]

Another IPO would mean more investors, who would demand that Musk take actions to make Twitter more profitable. Which would mean Musk would have to please advertisers to get them back.

I can't see Musk giving up that much control.

That's one very expensive ego he owns.

 

[tRexx]

There is a guy I would never work for.