“Robotaxi” and “Cybercab” are too unoriginal to trademark, USPTO tells Tesla

According to CEO Elon Musk, Tesla's future rests on the two-seat driverless pod.

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[vizaezuul]

XoXoXaXi looks really cool. Look at all those Xs. Xs are cool, right? Maybe throw another on at the end: XoXoXaXiX.

 

[Echohead2]

independent testing showed that Tesla's "FSD" system averaged one human intervention every 13 miles

Do we know the average distance per human intervention for Waymo?

 

[Echohead2]

I feel like pretty much any trademark attorney could have told them that they should pick a more distinctive mark.

I think Swasticab might be available.

 

[Snark218]

Did I mention which autistic billionaire buddy? You seem to assume I was referring to Musk! And I made no reference to Musks business practices! Gee, maybe the GOP needs to investigate the biased liberal policies of online board post?

https://www.axios.com/2022/04/15/elon-musk-aspergers-syndrome

Edit: add possible AI generated fake news link

Can we skip the part where we play this game because you seem to think I'm a total idiot, and just fast forward to where I tell you to eat my shorts with hollandaise?

 

[Snark218]

OTOH I dropped my 2020 Subaru Forester off for a service today and I received a phone call from the dealership asking if I wanted to sell it.

I'm getting the same from the Chevy dealer re: my Bolt. I'd make a decent chunk over what I paid for it.

 

[GaidinBDJ]

Oooooooo....someone's sleeping on the couch tonight.

 

[AusPeter]

I'm getting the same from the Chevy dealer re: my Bolt. I'd make a decent chunk over what I paid for it.

I didn't even bother to ask how much money was being offered. Aside from the fact that it's great car and has a lot more miles in it, the Trump Tariffs and general Trump economic uncertainty make it not in my best interests to sell, and hence buy a replacement.

 

[WhyNotZoidberg]

First of all there are a couple of videos online showing a purported Robotaxi driving autonomously around part of a Tesla campus in TX. Except they're drone videos, so no close ups. And from what you can see, all the windows in the Robotaxi are blacked out, so you have no idea what is going on inside the cabin.

One thing I noted in a previous Tesla story, is that if this Robotaxi is able to drive fully autonomously in June, then FSD should also be operational for every Tesla that bought that option (of at least supports the same hardware as the Robotaxi). Such an accomplishment would be ground breaking. Yet there is nary a comment from Tesla about this. Given the lack of press releases from Tesla, I suspect that points to the actual state of things.

I'm thinking that there is nothing autonomous about these vehicles and they're just being operated remotely. Kind of like how we found out that Amazon was just using a bunch of people in India for their 'just walk out' store.

 

[ERIFNOMI]

OTOH I dropped my 2020 Subaru Forester off for a service today and I received a phone call from the dealership asking if I wanted to sell it.

Dealers always do that with new-ish cars that they can make a buck on, because they're actually trying to turn you into a new sale at the same time.

I get letters for both my cars at least once a month with some low-ball offer plus a "deal" on a new car to replace it from my nearest dealer who will never earn a sale from me anyway.

 

[Lonyo]

Soooo… here’s the piece I don’t get. If Elon had gone all in on LIDAR in the beginning with the same approach he brought to batteries - iterative improvement, own the manufacturing process, make building the things super efficient - he’d have relatively inexpensive LIDAR that he could make a selling point in all his vehicles. That would substantially improve FSD for an investment that’s a drop in the bucket relative to Tesla’s valuation. His intransigence on LIDAR is just baffling.

Like he revolutionised digging tunnels, making electric pickups, electric semis, self driving itself, and all the other things he promised without delivering on?

Yes, he succeeded at space flight, and yes batteries have become cheaper, but that's one success with space flight, one following the global trend in batteries (Tesla isn't the only one making batteries cheaper), and many claims and promises not delivered.

Tesla didn't make batteries cheaper, batteries got cheaper while Tesla was making (or getting others to make) batteries.

 

[Snark218]

Also, this has already been pointed out by many people, but the Robotaxi pisses me off so much, because it's just the dumbest fucking possible take on a taxi. Look at any vehicle in wide use as a taxi, past or present, whether that's a Checker cab or a London cab or a Hindustan Motors Ambassador or a Crown Vic or a NV200 or whatever. They all have in common seating for 4-5 passengers, a large cargo area, a relatively high stance and hip point, a high-riding suspension with plenty of travel, and (at least for modern vehicles) handicap accessibility.

The Robotaxi has NONE of those things. Not one motherfucking item on that list. Not one thing that makes a taxi a good taxi made it to this clean-sheet design for a vehicle that can only be used for autonomous ride-sharing. Two couples sharing a cab down to the club? Not happening. Wheelchair? Fuck you. Parent with two children in car seats going to the airport? Tough. Old people? Fuck 'em. Four suitcases? Take a Waymo. Family trying to cross town to see the sights? Better walk.

It's so fucking stupid.

 

[Coriolanus]

@Coriolanus: Listening to the advice of lawyers or experts is for the little people, not titans like Elon Musk.

He is always fixated on random weird things (like the name "X", which he has used in a bunch of companies and, if memory serves, one of his kids) and can't seem to break away from the idea.

Trademark attorneys would typically tell you that if you're trying to get a trademark for something - if you can make up a word or use a word that is unrelated to the product you are selling (arbitrary and fanciful), then it makes your trademark that much easier to prosecute and defend. This is true especially if you are creating a completely new product or service and don't have some sort of legacy ties to an existing name. Just make something up. Hell, even "x.ybercab" would be better than Cybercab.

 

[AusPeter]

I remember people saying back in the old days of... checks calendar November that Musk couldn't be corrupt because he had all the money he could ever want.

And Trump was saying basically the same thing about himself as well.

 

[Snark218]

Like he revolutionised digging tunnels, making electric pickups, electric semis, self driving itself, and all the other things he promised without delivering on?

Yes, he succeeded at space flight, and yes batteries have become cheaper, but that's one success with space flight, one following the global trend in batteries (Tesla isn't the only one making batteries cheaper), and many claims and promises not delivered.

Tesla didn't make batteries cheaper, batteries got cheaper while Tesla was making (or getting others to make) batteries.

When you look at the record, it looks less like unique brilliance in making impossible things happen and more like two spots of luck and good timing in a life full of bashing his forehead against so many brick walls a few of them had to have cracks.

 

[Jeff S]

Then again, perhaps as boss of DOGE, Musk will just use his "special government employee" status to bring the USPTO to heel, purging it of the experts needed to regulate his business, just as he did at NHTSA.

Question: Might this not in the end, end up helping him? That is, I think Courts are the final say on whether a trademark is valid or not, because they have to comport with the law? Also, since Conservatives recently scrapped Chevron Deference, I think Courts have more authority than ever to review regulatory decisions?

So, if Musk abuses his authority to put in people who will grant him his trademark, and then someone violates it, and he tries to sue for enforcement (because courts enforce TMs, not the TM office), couldn't a court find that the trademark was granted inappropriately in violation of applicable statutes, and dismiss the case? ESPECIALLY since the TM office has already denied his application here in this case? Seems like that would be hella damning evidence in court. . . But IANAL.

 

[AusPeter]

Dealers always do that with new-ish cars that they can make a buck on, because they're actually trying to turn you into a new sale at the same time.

I get letters for both my cars at least once a month with some low-ball offer plus a "deal" on a new car to replace it from my nearest dealer who will never earn a sale from me anyway.

Oh, I also get the letters and the emails. But this was notably the first time that someone personally called me from the dealership (and coincidently when they have access to inspect my car). IMHO that's a step up in their game.

 

[Jeff S]

Maybe he could name it after himself -- Pasty White Fish Belly a go go.

I think Nazitaxi, Reichtaxi, Reichride, or HailHitler are probably available.

 

[AusPeter]

I think Nazitaxi, Reichtaxi, or Reichride are probably available.

I'll add onto your last one: TurdReichRide

 

[Dr Gitlin]

Yes, he succeeded at space flight, and yes batteries have become cheaper, but that's one success with space flight, one following the global trend in batteries (Tesla isn't the only one making batteries cheaper), and many claims and promises not delivered.

Tesla doesn't even make its own cells! The kudos for battery production goes to Panasonic. Tesla is just the customer for those cells. And the ongoing fiasco with the 4680 cells tells us all we need to know about Tesla's own ability there./

 

[fe3a8b63]

USPTO ain't going nowhere.

DOGE, corruption and Trump combined can't fight mega corporations like Apple, Microsoft Disney, etc. whose total value combined exceeds US debt. They need the broken status quo patent system to stay at all costs.

Can you imagine the horrors of patent reform in the US?

They're probably the only agency safe from idiots in charge

 

[ERIFNOMI]

Oh, I also get the letters and the emails. But this was notably the first time that someone personally called me from the dealership (and coincidently when they have access to inspect my car). IMHO that's a step up in their game.

You're just an easier mark at that point. Your car's already there and you have to come back and get it. Why not try to roll you through the new car lot while they're at it?

 

[ERIFNOMI]

Tesla doesn't even make its own cells! The kudos for battery production goes to Panasonic. Tesla is just the customer for those cells. And the ongoing fiasco with the 4680 cells tells us all we need to know about Tesla's own ability there./

I had to explain the same thing about their solar business recently too. People think Tesla is making solar cells. They're not even making solar panels. They're rebranding white labels from a couple of other companies.

 

[Rayz2016]

I'll add onto your last one: TurdReichRide

PanzerCab?

 

[ktmglen]

He is always fixated on random weird things (like the name "X", which he has used in a bunch of companies and, if memory serves, one of his kids) and can't seem to break away from the idea.

Trademark attorneys would typically tell you that if you're trying to get a trademark for something - if you can make up a word or use a word that is unrelated to the product you are selling (arbitrary and fanciful), then it makes your trademark that much easier to prosecute and defend. This is true especially if you are creating a completely new product or service and don't have some sort of legacy ties to an existing name. Just make something up. Hell, even "x.ybercab" would be better than Cybercab.

Hence all the random combination of letters brand names on Amazon. Amazon requires sellers to have a trademarked name. Run to the USPTO and trademark the easiest thing possible...a unique, somewhat random combination of letters.

 

[AusPeter]

USPTO ain't going nowhere.

DOGE, corruption and Trump combined can't fight mega corporations like Apple, Microsoft Disney, etc. whose total value combined exceeds US debt. They need the broken status quo patent system to stay at all costs.

Can you imagine the horrors of patent reform in the US?

They're probably the only agency safe from idiots in charge

While the House of Mouse is extremely powerful and vindictive, it did lose to DeSantis. So it's not cut and dried.

 

[AusPeter]

You're just an easier mark at that point. Your car's already there and you have to come back and get it. Why not try to roll you through the new car lot while they're at it?

But that's the thing. For every previous service at that same dealership no-one has ever personally called me up asking if I wanted to sell. This is a change.

 

[jock2nerd]

I feel like pretty much any trademark attorney could have told them that they should pick a more distinctive mark.

Based on the tales we hear out of Tesla, we can presume that this happened, happened multiple times, and Elmo ignored the advice that "robotaxi" and "cybercab" weren't likely to be accepted as trademarks and ploughed ahead anyway.

 

[simonbp]

PanzerCab?

If you're going that direction, might as well name it after the He 117 Grief, a bomber that was massively compromised by micromanaging by prominent Nazi incompetents.

I'm sure many Tesla owners already call their car a Griefmobile.

 

[DK2]

Question: Might this not in the end, end up helping him? That is, I think Courts are the final say on whether a trademark is valid or not, because they have to comport with the law? Also, since Conservatives recently scrapped Chevron Deference, I think Courts have more authority than ever to review regulatory decisions?

So, if Musk abuses his authority to put in people who will grant him his trademark, and then someone violates it, and he tries to sue for enforcement (because courts enforce TMs, not the TM office), couldn't a court find that the trademark was granted inappropriately in violation of applicable statutes, and dismiss the case? ESPECIALLY since the TM office has already denied his application here in this case? Seems like that would be hella damning evidence in court. . . But IANAL.

Chevron deference isn't relevant, since registered trademarks are presumed valid as a matter of explicit statutory law. In this case it probably doesn't matter, since these particular terms are almost certainly generic, and wouldn't be enforced by a court with or without a registration.

 

[Panj0]

Does it even matter what something that will never exist is called?

Did he trademark Hyperloop?

 

[cyberpenguin]

Now you can pick up a used Model 3 from that era for about the cost of a cheeseburger.

Is that a new or used cheeseburger?

 

[jock2nerd]

Also, this has already been pointed out by many people, but the Robotaxi pisses me off so much, because it's just the dumbest fucking possible take on a taxi. Look at any vehicle in wide use as a taxi, past or present, whether that's a Checker cab or a London cab or a Hindustan Motors Ambassador or a Crown Vic or a NV200 or whatever. They all have in common seating for 4-5 passengers, a large cargo area, a relatively high stance and hip point, a high-riding suspension with plenty of travel, and (at least for modern vehicles) handicap accessibility.

The Robotaxi has NONE of those things. Not one motherfucking item on that list. Not one thing that makes a taxi a good taxi made it to this clean-sheet design for a vehicle that can only be used for autonomous ride-sharing. Two couples sharing a cab down to the club? Not happening. Wheelchair? Fuck you. Parent with two children in car seats going to the airport? Tough. Old people? Fuck 'em. Four suitcases? Take a Waymo. Family trying to cross town to see the sights? Better walk.

It's so fucking stupid.

I suspect its because Tesla took some existing in-house designs and regurgitated them, instead of spending time creating a user-friendly design.

However, the design is very aerodynamic, which improves range when driven at highway speeds, though taxis rarely spend much time at highway speeds, mainly stop-and-go traffic, so WHY?

 

[ERIFNOMI]

But that's the thing. For every previous service at that same dealership no-one has ever personally called me up asking if I wanted to sell. This is a change.

I'm just saying dealers are scumbags and they're always trying to fuck you over. The dude who's in charge of upping the new car inventory has a slow day so he went through the service department and looked for late models they could make a buck off of. Or a salesperson has some bills coming up and needs an extra commission or two.

Don't put much thought into it, they're just trying to bend you over.

 

[Echohead2]

Soooo… here’s the piece I don’t get. If Elon had gone all in on LIDAR in the beginning with the same approach he brought to batteries - iterative improvement, own the manufacturing process, make building the things super efficient - he’d have relatively inexpensive LIDAR that he could make a selling point in all his vehicles. That would substantially improve FSD for an investment that’s a drop in the bucket relative to Tesla’s valuation. His intransigence on LIDAR is just baffling.

Penny wise, pound foolish?

 

[phik]

If you're going that direction, might as well name it after the He 117 Grief, a bomber that was massively compromised by micromanaging by prominent Nazi incompetents.

I'm sure many Tesla owners already call their car a Griefmobile.

%s/Grief/Greif/g

 

[Fred Duck]

I wonder how much Sega would sell CrazyTaxi for?

If they don't include the proper soundtrack, I'm not interested.

 

[meisanerd]

I didn't even bother to ask how much money was being offered. Aside from the fact that it's great car and has a lot more miles in it, the Trump Tariffs and general Trump economic uncertainty make it not in my best interests to sell, and hence buy a replacement.

I always tell them which vehicle I will trade it in for, and mention that I want to keep my current payment amount and length of time the same (ie: I will trade this vehicle straight across for another vehicle for the same amount of money). Never mind that I currently drive something worth about $20k, and would have to replace it with something worth $80k...

They always look at me funny, but I'm just like, how badly do you want my vehicle, because that is what it is worth to me if I had to replace it... I'm not going to take a hit just so you can have a different vehicle to sell.

 

[Snark218]

When a "Subscriptor" decides to act as a "Moderator" with an presumptious editorial then I'd say the "game" is triggered. Dood... if you don't like my post then you can downvote it like a fair number of people did! So pull your shorts out of your crack and give them a good wash in your PC bucket.

How about I do both? Because telling you that you're being a bigoted asshole, and that doing so is unacceptable, with or without the merited downvote you also got, isn't moderating you, it's just less pushback than you really merit for being a bigoted asshole. This is how social interaction works when you choose to say things that are shitty and prejudiced.

But thanks for picking a user handle that really checks out.