Mozilla’s privacy-heavy browser is flatlining but still crucial to future of the web.
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Is Firefox OK?
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Quote for truth. If I wanted to use Chrome, I'd use Chrome.
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This.
I used Firefox since back when it was known as Phoenix. It was my primary browser for many years, but I ended up dropping it back when they launched the "Australis" makeover. I didn't like the look of it as it was too similar to Chrome, but my biggest beef was just how much customisability they removed. That's been one of my constant criticisms ever since.
Firefox's USP used to be the flexibility and customisability that it had. Sadly, Mozilla seems to be determined to remove as much of this as possible, and hence for me one of the biggest reasons to use it has been steadily eroded. These days I typically use Pale Moon for most things (a Firefox fork that retains much of the customisability Mozilla removed), with Vivaldi being used for certain sites that don't play well with Pale Moon.
From time to time, I do try Firefox again, but it just doesn't have enough to tempt me back. Maybe this may change? I hope so as the web does need none-Chromium browsers.
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I was a pretty early adopter of Firefox, when it was Phoenix back in 2003 (version 0.2 or something) and when I switched to Mac in the mid-2000's I stuck with it until around 2010. I still use it for some sites and some situations, but the major reason for me using Safari rather than Firefox is simply battery life. It's not even close.
Even watching a Netflix show, Firefox will consume 2x the power that Safari does on my M1 Max and on my old Intel machine the difference was even worse.
On my work laptop it's a similar story, Edge is just so much more efficient, and often internal web-based applications are not compatible with Gecko, so there's just no reason to use it for work either.
It's a shame, because I think it's objectively a better browser than Safari in terms of flexibility and plugins.
Even watching a Netflix show, Firefox will consume 2x the power that Safari does on my M1 Max and on my old Intel machine the difference was even worse.
On my work laptop it's a similar story, Edge is just so much more efficient, and often internal web-based applications are not compatible with Gecko, so there's just no reason to use it for work either.
It's a shame, because I think it's objectively a better browser than Safari in terms of flexibility and plugins.
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I just switched back to Edge this last week for my work computer. I can't tell you how heavy handed Outlook safelink referrals are flat out blocked in Firefox due to certificate issues. Of course Office365 safelink reference URLs don't line up with the certificate for the destination site.
But Firefox flat out dont even let me "add an exception" in the browser. Another gripe i have it not being able to easily search Wikipedia or YouTube in the URL bar - there are like two or three more clicks to get the integrated search working. And as someone else mentioned too - rapid releases with random feature depreciation with almost little to no warning.
I switched to Firefox for the privacy-forward thinking, like having the ability to not allow HTTP links work.
I still use it for non-work personal systems and my phone. But... it was simply becoming a hinderence to having my workflow for work tasks be as smooth I would like. None of what I mentioned is really all that bad, but neither is a pebble in your shoe.
Sorry... rant over lol. I really do like Firefox and prefer it. I really do.
But Firefox flat out dont even let me "add an exception" in the browser. Another gripe i have it not being able to easily search Wikipedia or YouTube in the URL bar - there are like two or three more clicks to get the integrated search working. And as someone else mentioned too - rapid releases with random feature depreciation with almost little to no warning.
I switched to Firefox for the privacy-forward thinking, like having the ability to not allow HTTP links work.
I still use it for non-work personal systems and my phone. But... it was simply becoming a hinderence to having my workflow for work tasks be as smooth I would like. None of what I mentioned is really all that bad, but neither is a pebble in your shoe.
Sorry... rant over lol. I really do like Firefox and prefer it. I really do.
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Personally, I use Safari where it’s available and Firefox elsewhere. I think the core problem with Chrome is that it’s Good Enough, even if it hogs data and battery life; most people really don’t care about their browser, and happily let Google suck up their data. Which is a shame… Firefox really is a rather nice browser, and we need the diversity!
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Just use Edge with vertical tabs. They are technically under the address bar and work great on wide-screen monitors.
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I'm not seeing anything in Mozilla's statements that suggests they understand where they went wrong, so I've little hope of them turning it around.
Firefox built its user base by appealing to tech-savvy users who then spread the word through the mainstream. That meant encouraging and supporting customisation. Privacy was only one area that Firefox lead the way. The fact that add-ons could customise the UI was a big deal.
Mozilla has spent a decade now removing customisation and, seemingly, doing everything it can to alienate tech-savvy users. All to try and compete directly with Chrome in the mainstream market where they are so grossly outmatched in money and influence that they never had a chance.
Firefox built its user base by appealing to tech-savvy users who then spread the word through the mainstream. That meant encouraging and supporting customisation. Privacy was only one area that Firefox lead the way. The fact that add-ons could customise the UI was a big deal.
Mozilla has spent a decade now removing customisation and, seemingly, doing everything it can to alienate tech-savvy users. All to try and compete directly with Chrome in the mainstream market where they are so grossly outmatched in money and influence that they never had a chance.
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I finally made the swap from Firefox late last year after over a decade of use, the reason? I was sick to bloody death of updates destroying my settings. Every. Bloody. Update. I would need to find a custom CSS to set things to right, and that's not even getting in on the whole addon cataclysm from a few years ago that nuked many of the addons I relied on.
Finally the whole thing just died due to one of the many bugs and I needed to do a complete fresh install of it, losing every setting. I thought to myself if I needed to set up a new browser I might as well just switch to Chrome.
Yes it's not as customizable, yes it is made by Google, but it *works* and doesn't screw with me by lumping stupid UI changes in with security fixes. I don't care if the UI designer has found a 'better' setup, I don't want to change what works every two months.
I know of two people who are running years old versions of Firefox, unsecure versions, because they have things the way they want them and don't want to risk an update nuking everything.
For a browser that was built on customization the current developers are very much in the "Stop doing things WRONG! RESPECT MY VISION!"
Finally the whole thing just died due to one of the many bugs and I needed to do a complete fresh install of it, losing every setting. I thought to myself if I needed to set up a new browser I might as well just switch to Chrome.
Yes it's not as customizable, yes it is made by Google, but it *works* and doesn't screw with me by lumping stupid UI changes in with security fixes. I don't care if the UI designer has found a 'better' setup, I don't want to change what works every two months.
I know of two people who are running years old versions of Firefox, unsecure versions, because they have things the way they want them and don't want to risk an update nuking everything.
For a browser that was built on customization the current developers are very much in the "Stop doing things WRONG! RESPECT MY VISION!"
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It helps to compare Firefox with Waterfox, a firefox clone. Waterfox is maintained, or used to be maintained, by a single person, as a hobby. Firefox is powered by a 500 million corporation with a huge number of pricy executives.
Which requires a lot of money. Which Firefox tries to earn by adding all sorts of questionable features that undermine their users' privacy.
To save Firefox, it is high time to go back to the basics and start thinking why we need it: to provide an alternative to commercial browers? Or to finance a huge bureaucracy?
Which requires a lot of money. Which Firefox tries to earn by adding all sorts of questionable features that undermine their users' privacy.
To save Firefox, it is high time to go back to the basics and start thinking why we need it: to provide an alternative to commercial browers? Or to finance a huge bureaucracy?
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I've been using Firefox since it was Phoenix nearly 20 years ago. It's been through some rough patches but is a good browser right now.
The problem with FF, and the main danger to it's future, is the useless and greedy executives in charge of Mozilla.
How about instead of crap like this try focusing on not pissing off your remaining users.
The problem with FF, and the main danger to it's future, is the useless and greedy executives in charge of Mozilla.
And for this the CEO Mitchell Baker paid herself another $500,000, because $2.5m/year wasn't enough for someone running a non-profit organization into the ground. In the last 5 years, while totally failing at the job, her pay rose from $1m/year to $3m/year.
Yeah, that worked out really well that time they did something similar for Mr Robot. Totally clueless.
How about instead of crap like this try focusing on not pissing off your remaining users.
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Unfortunately Mozilla's board is an absolutely closed self-perpetuating oligarchy. There are no voting members and of course no stockholders either. So there's no real way to redirect the beast. They can't be replaced no matter how badly they fuck up.
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I use Firefox on both my pc and iPhone. I find it easy to use, it gives the privacy I want, and it’s not Google.
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I'm surprised that Chrome is still so popular. I switched from Chrome to Firefox years ago because I would constantly get tabs crashing, the UI is terrible if you have a large number of tabs open, and the longer you ran it the worse the performance got.
The lack of ability to directly open files always used to bug me as well. The worst thing was that there was a bug/feature that showed Google was looking at it, but they just didn't seem to be able to comprehend that it's sometimes possible to pass a URL to an external app and have it open it directly instead of always sending everything to the download folder (like Chrome itself does for PDFs).
It's less of a problem these days, but using a company intranet site with links to documents was a pain in Chrome and trying to use Citrix clients could end up in a cycle of Chrome redownloading the ica file instead of just running it.
The lack of ability to directly open files always used to bug me as well. The worst thing was that there was a bug/feature that showed Google was looking at it, but they just didn't seem to be able to comprehend that it's sometimes possible to pass a URL to an external app and have it open it directly instead of always sending everything to the download folder (like Chrome itself does for PDFs).
It's less of a problem these days, but using a company intranet site with links to documents was a pain in Chrome and trying to use Citrix clients could end up in a cycle of Chrome redownloading the ica file instead of just running it.
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As a desktop Linux user, the thought of Firefox going away is frightening.
Putting aside Mozilla's own lack of direction, what really perplexes me is why there's so many projects dedicated to fluff like desktop environments but almost zero motivation for a good browser/fork. RedHat/IBM seem to only care about the cloud, so there's no hope for Epiphany anymore. Canonical is busy trying to snapify everything to ensure we turn geriatric while waiting for snap packages to load. System76 wants to build yet-another-gnome-alternative instead of doing something sensible like donating to the Librewolf project.
Seriously, if/when Firefox dies (they've started working with Satan/Meta, so it's pretty close I reckon), I'll probably just ditch desktop Linux for home use and move to iPadOS (personally not a fan of MacOS, which I use at work) and Safari or something, because the only alternatives on Linux at that point will be reskinned Chrome alternatives like Brave, ugh.
Putting aside Mozilla's own lack of direction, what really perplexes me is why there's so many projects dedicated to fluff like desktop environments but almost zero motivation for a good browser/fork. RedHat/IBM seem to only care about the cloud, so there's no hope for Epiphany anymore. Canonical is busy trying to snapify everything to ensure we turn geriatric while waiting for snap packages to load. System76 wants to build yet-another-gnome-alternative instead of doing something sensible like donating to the Librewolf project.
Seriously, if/when Firefox dies (they've started working with Satan/Meta, so it's pretty close I reckon), I'll probably just ditch desktop Linux for home use and move to iPadOS (personally not a fan of MacOS, which I use at work) and Safari or something, because the only alternatives on Linux at that point will be reskinned Chrome alternatives like Brave, ugh.
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I use desktop Firefox for almost all my browsing with a number of additional privacy, blocking & anonymising add-ons that I've set to deliberately break everything, except the content. I use Edge on the handful of sites I trust; I can literally count them on one hand.
On the rare occasions I browse on mobile I use Focus. I always use DDG for search regardless of device.
Like most Ars readers I am in the minority that give a damn about privacy. Defaults, deliberate manipulations, a lack of knowledge & the path of least resistance mean the majority will stick with Chrome (or Safari) and with Google for search.
At this point only regulation to strip browsers away from Ad pushers will change the landscape.
On the rare occasions I browse on mobile I use Focus. I always use DDG for search regardless of device.
Like most Ars readers I am in the minority that give a damn about privacy. Defaults, deliberate manipulations, a lack of knowledge & the path of least resistance mean the majority will stick with Chrome (or Safari) and with Google for search.
At this point only regulation to strip browsers away from Ad pushers will change the landscape.
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To be fair that adoption had more to do with Google search seo than Chrome market share.
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Have you not tried Palemoon? I use that on Linux and Windows. It's pretty much Firefox from 10 years ago as far as the GUI is concerned.
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Try using Firefox on an Android tablet... It sucks. I want the same browser across all my devices (with tab sync) and Firefox disqualified itself. I did want to support the Firefox engine but for now I'm really happy with Vivaldi.
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Same here. I'm using Firefox everywhere (trying to de-googlify but not too hard). Firefox is Fine, but they keep making irrelevant, useless, and ultimately hurtful UI changes. I haven't come across a site it can't render in weeks if not months, and that's pretty much all I ask of a browser (bookmarks+pwd sync and addons are very nice too). But the constant UI tweaks prevent me from recommending it to (erm, forcing it on) tech-averse users.
I'm trying to do my bit to promote competition and diversity (and addons on mobile browsers), but Firefox seems out of touch with regular users. That can be said of most big tech firms (I'm flabbergasted at what Google is doing with designs, and still no Help Screen in sight), but Firefox is particularly vulnerable and should be avoiding useless churn and efforts. It's weird that Vivaldi seems to be doing so much more relevant stuff, with a much smaller team.
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Every day you learn something new.
I've got a pinned tab with DuckDuckGo, which is my primary & only search engine. So I never bothered to use the "new tab" function. In any browser, btw. I dislike those pages.
FireFox: My preferred browser ever since Phoenix, I guess. I've "cheated" a little with Chrome, in the beginning of Chrome, but turned back as soon as that thing became a resource hog. Stayed with FF ever since.
And reading this article, I will until the bitter end :-D
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Don't forget "default". Android --> Alphabet --> Chrome.
That belongs to "practicality", of course.
Just like Microsoft --> Windows --> Edge. Main reason IE could become Edge, paid for by Bing?, is because of Windows, of course. If not, it would have died long ago.
I would like to see statistics on how many people take the effort to install a different-than-default browser on their systems.
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No sympathy for Eich. The man voted for and funded efforts to criminalize many of his own employees over immutable characteristics. If he was a racial Segregationist I doubt he'd have as many defenders, but the two are morally equivalent.
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Exactly none of that has anything to do with your first comment:
Firefox's central problem is that it has lots of alternatives that largely do similar things and doesn't have a distinguishing reason to use it over the alternatives anymore. That has exactly nothing to do with SJWs... and the article itself also doesn't blame it "all on Chrome".
If you want fewer downvotes, put away the nonsensical axe to grind.
These days on a Windows PC, Edge does the job pretty well. If you want Chrome/Vivaldi/Opera/Brave/etc, they're there. They all work pretty well. What's the reason to get Firefox over them?
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Firefox did have a unique position: it was the adored child of power-users. Alas, they decided to dilute that position and push for less functionality, more trendy features, more trendy UI and the lowest common denominator.
I, personally, am especially annoyed by how they've gone so hard on this dumbing-down of Firefox for Android, like e.g. you can no longer access about:support anymore for any of the lower-level settings and you're only allowed to install extensions from their miniscule curated list -- no option, whatsoever, for a power-user to ignore such restrictions and accept the responsibility for any resulting issues. That said, the desktop-version of Firefox isn't safe from this dilution and removal of features, either.
It's still the best browser out there, but that position is degrading at a steady pace.
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I recently switched from Safari to FF on my desktop Mac for the extensions, but I miss the easy access to certain functions that I had in Safari. For example, is there an easy way to toggle Javascript in FF? Other than that, no major issues.
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LOL no, the money was always in getting paid for being the default search engine. The market back then was quite easy, it was Microsoft with IE in one corner and basically everyone else in the other corner. Everyone that's developed for IE6 knows it absolutely sucked and was cheering for Firefox to bring standards compliance to the web, because Firefox actually passed the ACID1/2/3 tests. All kinds of web applications, CMS systems etc. could drop all their IE hacks. So a lot of people cheered for and promoted Firefox, but the money mostly came from the Google.
And honestly, that's kinda all the plan they had. After the Microsoft monopoly was broken it was like "Ding Dong! The Witch Is Dead" and they floundered. Google decided to do their own thing with Chrome while Firefox seemed to go off on ten different side projects while ignoring their core product. And over time what might once have been acceptable degree of crashes, memory leaks and lock-ups became annoying. Having to manage a bunch of different extensions of varying quality to get functionality that was getting integrated and worked out of the box in other browsers got tedious.
I have a love-hate relationship to the death of XUL. It's ability to plug in pretty much everywhere is probably one of the leading causes for why the whole project slowed to a crawl and died on the vine. On the other hand, when they finally cut it they also cut the branch they were sitting on that occasionally made Firefox still worth using. It's no doubt that Electrolysis made Firefox a much better browser and if it had happened five years earlier it'd be a success but by 2016 you mostly ended up with a poorer version of Chrome. Today I feel it's maybe back to even but still lacking any clear benefit.
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I have just one question:
Why does Firefox need nearly half a billion dollar a year to run?
Why does Firefox need nearly half a billion dollar a year to run?
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I'm not business-minded at all, but the sheer numbers baffle me: 242 million dollars in software development and 137 in "general and administrative" in 2020.
I mean, making GTA4 from scratch cost an estimated $100 millions and one year of what is essentially maintenance of Firefox and the other software products Mozilla offer cost 242? Does not compute to me.
This said, I don't think finance has much to do with Firefox's tragic loss of market share, but I want it to survive and with the possibility of losing 94% of their revenue... it would probably be revolution or death.
I mean, making GTA4 from scratch cost an estimated $100 millions and one year of what is essentially maintenance of Firefox and the other software products Mozilla offer cost 242? Does not compute to me.
This said, I don't think finance has much to do with Firefox's tragic loss of market share, but I want it to survive and with the possibility of losing 94% of their revenue... it would probably be revolution or death.
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I still use Firefox, as Chrome wants to hide its menus and UI behind a widget for absolutely no reason.
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Ironically, this reminds me of the recent article and a comment on it about Google itself and how every time they depreciate an API or replace an app with a new version of the same thing, some people bail out and will never come back.
Firefox did a lot of the same thing: it got big in the first place because it did some things really well, more tech savvy users loved it, and installed it for their friends/family. Then Mozilla systematically alienated those people by removing the stuff they liked, while changing the UI and making it harder for the non-tech savvy folks to follow why it was changing.
They tried to out-Chrome Chrome, and chased everyone off in the process.
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Yes. Click the lock icon next to the URL bar, then two more clicks and you get the Page Info window, then Permissions tab. Yes, it's convoluted. For the convenience of a one-click bar icon, use extensions (I use YesScript). To disable JS globally, there's a "hidden" option in about:config, can't find a non-hidden setting right now.
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I use Chromium on Linux for work, but on Windows the update process is not particularly smooth. Using a managed, lightly customized version of Chromium like Brave is not a bad idea there.
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Many people mention they don't like how Firefox apes Chrome. I think it's inevitable in this case; the early successes of Firefox came from copying features from Opera, which had to be purchased at the time, and releasing them for free. They haven't had success in any other way.
My opinion is that Firefox was cursed with money; they earned far too much for their needs and their merit, so they ended up squandering it on initiatives which they couldn't bring to fruition and on generous executive compensation. It would have been far better for them to create a fund which would have given them a regular source of income. I don't see how they can find an alternative source of funding once Google tires of sending them money. People who install Firefox are often sufficiently computer literate to set the search engine to the one they like, which would often be Chrome anyway.
Yet, although I don't hold the Mozilla Foundation in high regard, I do think besting Chrome was an impossible battle. Even Microsoft gave up creating their own browser. It makes sense in retrospect that they tried to grow outside of the browser market since they saw it was a dead end, but they're simply not skilled enough to succeed.
My opinion is that Firefox was cursed with money; they earned far too much for their needs and their merit, so they ended up squandering it on initiatives which they couldn't bring to fruition and on generous executive compensation. It would have been far better for them to create a fund which would have given them a regular source of income. I don't see how they can find an alternative source of funding once Google tires of sending them money. People who install Firefox are often sufficiently computer literate to set the search engine to the one they like, which would often be Chrome anyway.
Yet, although I don't hold the Mozilla Foundation in high regard, I do think besting Chrome was an impossible battle. Even Microsoft gave up creating their own browser. It makes sense in retrospect that they tried to grow outside of the browser market since they saw it was a dead end, but they're simply not skilled enough to succeed.
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Still the best (though not as feature-rich as Chrome's) web inspector imo, perfect for front-end devs.
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