Zune hardware apparently dead, software and services live on

Microsoft's Zune-branded MP3 players are set to leave the market, after reports that the company will be concentrating on smartphones and services after lacklustre market performance of the hardware.

<a href='http://meincmagazine.com/microsoft/news/2011/03/zune-hardware-apparently-dead-software-and-services-live-on.ars'>Read the whole story</a>

 

[Noahco]

I absolutely love my Zune and Zune Pass combo. The only reason I didn't upgrade to a Zune HD is because my 16gb one has lasted so long and not had any problems and I figured I would just skip a generation. Which is crazy when comparing it to my friends who have all gone through at least 2-3 ipods in the same time frame.

Not sure if I will keep zune pass after i finally do break or lose my zune but I may since it's still the best deal out there. Purchase 10 songs at a $1 each and have access to all the songs I want besides it.

 

[Eldorito]

The decision to end Zune hardware production also means that it's unlikely that Microsoft will ever mimic Apple and produce an iPod touch equivalent for Windows Phone 7—the phone platform without the phone part.

I don't see how this follows. It seems like it would be trivial for any handset maker to produce a handset without a phone. Yes, MS won't be making it, but it also doesn't make the phone. In fact, one could hope for a variety of competing players (e.g. one with stereo speakers and a kick-stand, one small and light, another with a slide out keyboard, etc.)

I think the key here is that Microsoft probably won't do it. I'd be really surprised if someone doesn't try shoehorn it onto a bunch of devices (tablets, iPod Touch like products, etc)

 

[godzillaWax]

Too bad. The Zune HD is a great device, and I use the hell out of the Zune Pass.

On a side note: wow, there are a lot of douchebag fanboys (of multiple varieties) in this forum.

 

[bb-15]

Yes, but if they make a Windows Phone 7 device without a phone, what would they call the OS? Windows 7? wOS? wp7OS? BalmOS? Microsoft iOS? MiOS? Score!

I know you are joking but you bring up an important point, the name of the MS mobile OS, hardware and MS mobile app software.

- Apple makes it simple; iOS and iTunes and then the i devices (pod, pad, phone). It jams these names into people's minds until everyone can easily remember what to buy and what software to use.

- MS never got a basic thing right; consistent NAMES for its mobile products. MS kept trying to tie names to a desktop product, Windows, except for Zune. And now it's dumping Zune hardware. All the different names for MS mobile products, hardware and software, causes confusion for the average non techie customer. And that has hurt the marketing of MS mobile products imo.

 

[roebeet]

I had a Zune 30 and a Zune HD. Great devices both, excellent sound quality, and Zune Pass was (and still is) an excellent idea.

But by the time the Zune HD came out, MS needed to compete not just with music, but also the iPod App Store. It never even came close. When I heard that they were not allowing an App-like store for developers, I knew that there was no way that their product would break out of the niche market.

You can buy a Cowon D3 or Archos 43 now and throw the Android Market on there if you don't want an Apple product. The Zune could have have been a true multimedia device, but MS just didn't put enough effort into it to succeed. What a shame.

 

[Onyx]

Think it's a bitter day for J Allard? Guy was riding high on the success of the Xbox 360 so he's moved over to be in charge of the struggling Zune, and not only doesn't save it but ends up leaving MS.

 

[OrangeCream]

Why is it that Microsoft manages to compete effectively in the complex business of gaming paraphernalia yet it is failing so badly with its music players and phones? The Zune and the WP7 are excellent products so bad quality is not the issue. I find the “too little too late” explanation too simplistic. But if it’s not that, what is it?

Because in the world of gaming paraphenalia, their biggest competitor, Nintendo, only updates their HW once every five years. So even if it takes an extra quarter to push an update, that's hardly a dealbreaker.

In the world of phones and PMPs, Apple updates once a year for all their devices. Android phones get updated once a quarter. Including soft updates, Apple updates five to six times a year, in an attempt to compete with Android.

So Microsoft literally gets left in the dust.

 

[rcastro0]

It's only logical that MS wouldn't produce two separate lines of portable devices. As they get more capable and cheaper, they naturally consolidate.

Right, like the iPhone killed the iPod or... hold on a second...

 

[saltcured]

I thought Microsoft had so much money they can stick with a loser until they dominate the market. That's what I always hear whenever they start a new venture.

 

[XavierItzmann]

Can someone recommend a good tattoo removal clinic, for that Zune-guy?

;-)

Welcome to the social.

 

[DrChumley]

This is unfortunate, but certainly not unexpected. I still use my 8GB Zune for audiobooks and my 120GB zune for music. I MUCH prefer the Zune software to iTunes, which chokes on my large music collection and runs slower than a Tandy TRS-80. If Microsoft would open up the Zune platform to other OSes and Devices, I think they could manage to make a real go of it. If Zune were available on my Android phone, for instance, I'd use it in a heartbeat. There really isn't a decent music solution for Android phones right now, and if MS could manage to port the really solid Zune software to Android and implement a solid syncing strategy, I think they'd have a solid chance of competing against the iProducts.

 

[XavierItzmann]

It seems like it would be trivial for any handset maker to produce a handset without a phone.

As a matter of fact, this product does not exist, other than as iPod Touch.

It is true. A multibillion dollar handheld computer disguised as a music player that has no competitor

 

[OrangeCream]

It seems like it would be trivial for any handset maker to produce a handset without a phone.

As a matter of fact, this product does not exist, other than as iPod Touch.

It is true. A multibillion dollar handheld computer disguised as a music player that has no competitor

That's not true. Archos has a whole stable of poorly received Android PMPs.

 

[swerus]

This is sad day..

I love my zune HD, and with the mess that WP7 is in I just don't see me buying one any time in the next few months.

 

[PhilipStorry]

Why is it that Microsoft manages to compete effectively in the complex business of gaming paraphernalia yet it is failing so badly with its music players and phones? The Zune and the WP7 are excellent products so bad quality is not the issue. I find the “too little too late” explanation too simplistic. But if it’s not that, what is it?

I have some ideas, but I don't work for them so this is just my take on it.

One thing I can say - from a pure business perspective, Xbox isn't successful.

It's only profitable due to massive write-offs (in the order of at least a billion, possibly multiple billions) on the development costs of the initial hardware, followed by massive write-offs of the costs of later hardware problems (RROD). Sure, it's had profitable times too - but if most other companies had these kinds of problems, they'd have had to kill Xbox or go bust. Only Microsoft's deep pockets, lined with Windows and Office-minted gold, kept Xbox from becoming Dreamcast Mk II.

But Microsoft has kept piling money into Xbox, because it's a vision thing. A key part of corporate strategy.

Bill Gates wanted a computer in every home. And later, he wanted that computer to be a media hub, a social/organisational hub - everything. The key thing to realise is that he wanted it in the living room, not the study.

In that sense, strategically, the Xbox is a trojan horse. It's in your living room, waiting for the day when Microsoft decides to turn it into a more fully-fledged computer that just happens to be plugged into your TV. It has a part in a strategy that dates back to when Bill was still heading the operation. Nobody, but nobody, is going to say "let's not fund XBox anymore". It'd be throwing away your own career.

But a phone or Zune hardware? That's nothing. "Bill never said anything about that, and that's not the strategy that got us to where we are today..." is probably the thinking.

It's a contrast to Apple. Look at Apple TV. (Don't worry, nobody will see you doing it, because nobody else is looking at it!)
Apple TV is part of Apple's big strategy. The fact that it hasn't found a widespread audience yet is irrelevant. They keep just plugging away at it.

Apple TV is Apple's Xbox. They'll fund it no matter what. Zune's problem is that it wasn't ever Microsoft's Apple TV...

 

[arcadium]

In that sense, strategically, the Xbox is a trojan horse. It's in your living room, waiting for the day when Microsoft decides to turn it into a more fully-fledged computer that just happens to be plugged into your TV. It has a part in a strategy that dates back to when Bill was still heading the operation. Nobody, but nobody, is going to say "let's not fund XBox anymore". It'd be throwing away your own career.

But a phone or Zune hardware? That's nothing. "Bill never said anything about that, and that's not the strategy that got us to where we are today..." is probably the thinking.

It's a contrast to Apple. Look at Apple TV. (Don't worry, nobody will see you doing it, because nobody else is looking at it!)
Apple TV is part of Apple's big strategy. The fact that it hasn't found a widespread audience yet is irrelevant. They keep just plugging away at it.

Apple TV is Apple's Xbox. They'll fund it no matter what. Zune's problem is that it wasn't ever Microsoft's Apple TV...

This analysis seems mostly right to me. e.g., take away XBox Live integration, and you lose a major WP7 differentiating point.

I think Apple has been pretty straightforward about Apple TV. It is a way to allow you to take your iTunes content to your TV. Apple TV is not a good comparison financially to the XBox. Apple TV costs Apple a minimal amount of money in development (most of the SW dev is prorated across the entire iOS line, and the HW is also similar to the iPod Touch, etc.). And also, I'm pretty sure Apple is not selling Apple TV at a loss. I think Apple treats Apple TV as an accessory to iTunes, and the iOS devices (with the addition of airplay).

 

[kailinu]

All I know is that Zune in French sound butt-ugly. Zut alors!

 

[maxgruv]

<quote>The apparent decision to cancel the standalone hardware may be the fact behind the rumors, or this could be the first step in a complete overhaul and rebranding of the platform, possibly codenamed "Ventura."</quote>

That will be so awesome if they decide to use Ace as their new spokesman... or better yet, Jesse.

 

[XavierItzmann]

It seems like it would be trivial for any handset maker to produce a handset without a phone.

As a matter of fact, this product does not exist, other than as iPod Touch.

It is true. A multibillion dollar handheld computer disguised as a music player that has no competitor

That's not true. Archos has a whole stable of poorly received Android PMPs.

Thanks for the link.
On the Archos website, one sees their Vision MP3/MP4 players. While some do have a slate form, it is not immediately clear that some may be general purpose computers.
Archos does advertise on its site some internet slates, iPad style, and some are diminutive, such as their 3.2" iphone-form factor.

So, I take it back. Apparently Archos does have a general computer competitor to iPod Touch.

 

[dlux]

Can someone recommend a good tattoo removal clinic, for that Zune-guy?

Who, x2Real?

 

[mikeyk]

Coming next will be abandoning Win phone 7 after it not gaining enough traction quick enough. MS seems to always be way to late to the party once the party starts, and they can't seem to gain any traction on their competitors fast enough because their always one step ahead or more by the time MS finally gets something on the market. MS has become like the Titanic, its too big and too diverse that it can't make decisions quick enough to avoid the big "FAIL" iceberg. MS needs to stop chasing after everyone elses market after its already been established, and Balmer absolutely needs to step down before MS has no furniture left.

 

[thekaj]

I don't think we're talking MP3 players either with this or the touch. These are small computers that happen to play music.

Sure, but even then, beyond the iPod Touch, there doesn't seem to be a market. Microsoft tried and failed with the Zune. WP7 needs to mature as a platform (especially with game apps), before it would be a viable platform for those people looking for a mobile device that isn't a phone. Then maybe they can consider licensing it out.

 

[Ufgt]

That's too bad. My Zune80 is an excellent device and the software is great, runs much better on my laptop than itunes.

 

[Lbaxter]

"Windows Phone 7 embeds the Zune player for media playback on the phone, uses the Zune Marketplace for online music sales, and the Zune PC software for media syncing and firmware updates."

Windows Phone 7 also apparently embeds Microsoft's complete inability to react, or keep up feature wise, with competitors. The Zune software and marketplace is a dream to work with. However there was no Appstore counterpart, no Xbox Live integration, and the product inevitably suffered because of it.

Whoever is in charge of the Zune and WP7, needs to be shit canned with extreme prejudice. It's almost like there's a downward directed goal to not compete, and not capture market share. Instead to simply release a respectable product with awesome potential and promptly let it rot, as the world passes it by.

You almost get this sense that they're completely phoning in these products (no pun intended) and could honestly care less whether they succeed or not. It's like Microsoft just doesn't give a shit about the product, or it's users.

/bitter Zune owner

 

[x2Real]

As I type this I'm watching a movie on my Zune 80GB second gen. I really like this player but I took the chance that buying it, Microsoft would drop the line shortly after unlike Apple. Now that they took this route, which honestly was not surprising, I have little doubt that I would purchase another MS product again. My player is working just fine but I'm sure it's soon when they'll discontinue the updates to the Zune software.

true unlike ipods i've never had a zune break on me

 

[x2Real]

This is sad day..

I love my zune HD, and with the mess that WP7 is in I just don't see me buying one any time in the next few months.

i own a WP7 and there's nothing wrong with it at all
dont' believe what the apple lovers push in the news

 

[Deleted member 174040]

What took them so long? As Daring Fireball put it:

When has demand for Zunes done anything but ebb?

 

[bb-15]

Why is it that Microsoft manages to compete effectively in the complex business of gaming paraphernalia yet it is failing so badly with its music players and phones? The Zune and the WP7 are excellent products so bad quality is not the issue. I find the “too little too late” explanation too simplistic. But if it’s not that, what is it?

Because in the world of gaming paraphenalia, their biggest competitor, Nintendo, only updates their HW once every five years. So even if it takes an extra quarter to push an update, that's hardly a dealbreaker.

In the world of phones and PMPs, Apple updates once a year for all their devices. Android phones get updated once a quarter. Including soft updates, Apple updates five to six times a year, in an attempt to compete with Android.

So Microsoft literally gets left in the dust.

I'll add that MS is a good software company and that Nintendo and Sony are not in MS's league in terms of producing software.

Take for example Halo. MS had the money to buy Bungie away from Apple's OS. Then MS was able to create a network system for Halo, Xbox LIVE, where players could talk to each other while gaming. For years this was way ahead of what Nintendo and Sony could do. So, in gaming even though the Xbox hardware was pretty bad for a long time, its software was better.

- But with mobile devices Apple and Google can match or even beat MS in terms of software. No advantage to MS.

 

[Viking ZX]

IF this does indeed turn out to be true (as the article says MS has not said anything, so I'd brand this as a rumor) I would be very sad indeed. I've had my little Zune for several years now and I love the thing. I like the interface, the durability, the straightforward design. Sure, the Zune software can be clunky sometimes, but overall its better then iTunes. Plus, Zunes customer relations has been great, they've been very on top of requests and suggestions for the firmware.

If this is true, sad day. All I want is an MP3 player. I don't want the do everything. I want the straight ease.

 

[OrangeCream]

This is sad day..

I love my zune HD, and with the mess that WP7 is in I just don't see me buying one any time in the next few months.

i own a WP7 and there's nothing wrong with it at all
dont' believe what the apple lovers push in the news

Wrong vs right are two different things.

No copy/paste, no "squirting" (ala AirPlay and Home Sharing), no printing, no multitasking, no fast resume, etc.

 

[NickN]

Didn't the pre-Zune Balmer say the iPod was a dead end because soon everybody would just play music on their phone? The Zune was just a stopgap for MS all along. Unfortunately for him it turned out that the iTouch is a $200 contract free gateway drug for kids to the iOS ecosystem.

 

[neodorian]

Coming next will be abandoning Win phone 7 after it not gaining enough traction quick enough. MS seems to always be way to late to the party once the party starts, and they can't seem to gain any traction on their competitors fast enough because their always one step ahead or more by the time MS finally gets something on the market. MS has become like the Titanic, its too big and too diverse that it can't make decisions quick enough to avoid the big "FAIL" iceberg. MS needs to stop chasing after everyone elses market after its already been established, and Balmer absolutely needs to step down before MS has no furniture left.

In some ways I would agree but I also remember a time when they had one of the only really versatile smart phone platforms that included such gems as 3G data, GPS, 3rd party apps, copy/paste, tethering, multitasking, and touch screens. This was long before any iPhone or Android phone had been released so I don't know that they were exactly "chasing" anything. It was just the nature of competition that Apple saw the strength of a smart phone platform and the potential for some real convergence and improved on a couple of the things that were necessary to appeal to a larger casual/consumer market: big responsive screen, improved browser, and a balance of capability and ease of use...putting ease and looks above function for the most part. The original few iPhones were missing lots of the typical smart phone *functions* but since they couldn't implement them in a simple and pretty way yet, they left them out. As much as I nerd raged over it at the time, it's obviously a legit market segment that doesn't care about GPS or 3G data or copy/paste or whatever if it's intimidating to them. Since most weren't coming from smart phones, they didn't care that these were missing on gen 1 or gen 2 or whatever.

Anyway, getting off topic. The point is, it's not exactly as if Microsoft is always chasing other companies and failing. They have historically done flexibility and function pretty well but they have been lacking in some of the "softer" aspects of tech (UI, marketing, consistency, etc) that sell to consumers. Competitors have taken good advantage of this and it's forced Microsoft to address these things. So far it's been pretty good for the market as far as I have been able to see.

 

[LeaderlessByChoice]

My daughter is going to scream bloody murder, She had a Zune 30gb from the very beginning and it just finally had to be replaced (the headset jack finally loosened up enough that only one ear works) she received it for Christmas 2006. 4 Plus years of constant use (and I do mean constant).

In Feb this year she borrowed a friends new iPod for a few days to allow her to make a buying decision (Birthday gift time)... She HATED the iPod declared it the biggest POS in the world and decided to go with a Zune HD 32gb.

The Zune HD 32gb is without a doubt the slickest piece of hardware I have held and she loves it without a doubt, lets hope it lasts as long as her last one by then Android should have settled down enough to provide something to pacify her

 

[Alan H.]

I knew it was doomed when they thought poop brown was a good idea for a color.

 

[OrangeCream]

My daughter is going to scream bloody murder, She had a Zune 30gb from the very beginning and it just finally had to be replaced (the headset jack finally loosened up enough that only one ear works) she received it for Christmas 2006. 4 Plus years of constant use (and I do mean constant).

In Feb this year she borrowed a friends new iPod for a few days to allow her to make a buying decision (Birthday gift time)... She HATED the iPod declared it the biggest POS in the world and decided to go with a Zune HD 32gb.

The Zune HD 32gb is without a doubt the slickest piece of hardware I have held and she loves it without a doubt, lets hope it lasts as long as her last one by then Android should have settled down enough to provide something to pacify her

How could you hate the iPod, but like the ZuneHD? I'm assuming she's comparing the iPod to the Zune, but not know that the ZuneHD is just like the iPod touch?

 

[Vampyre]

My daughter is going to scream bloody murder, She had a Zune 30gb from the very beginning and it just finally had to be replaced (the headset jack finally loosened up enough that only one ear works) she received it for Christmas 2006. 4 Plus years of constant use (and I do mean constant).

In Feb this year she borrowed a friends new iPod for a few days to allow her to make a buying decision (Birthday gift time)... She HATED the iPod declared it the biggest POS in the world and decided to go with a Zune HD 32gb.

The Zune HD 32gb is without a doubt the slickest piece of hardware I have held and she loves it without a doubt, lets hope it lasts as long as her last one by then Android should have settled down enough to provide something to pacify her

How could you hate the iPod, but like the ZuneHD? I'm assuming she's comparing the iPod to the Zune, but not know that the ZuneHD is just like the iPod touch?

The same way I could. The iPod was intollerable; the iPod touch would barely be tollerable but with the forced used of iTunes it's still unacceptable.

The Zune, on the other hand, worked just fine, did what I wanted it to do without any fuss, and frankly the ZuneHD works great. It is a better device. It failed because it lacked momentum and because people are idiots.

I'm always vastly unimpressed with Apple products; I've never found any more than just tolerable and most I refuse to work with or use. I just hate their design, from the ground up. I don't like their interfaces, their OS's seem inconsistent to me, and their support is assinine.

Why no one has created an embedded virus to fuck up iPods and released it with a time delay in a bunch of pirated music, I don't know, but I'll laugh when they do and your precious iDevices become unrepairable scrap.

 

[solomonrex]

MS is losing opportunities by constantly abandoning products, even if they're niches. We see it in car makers all the time. Everyone abandoned tiny roadsters, so when Mazda made the Miata and MADE IT GOOD, they had a rock to build on. Jeep kept going through the tough times with a similar niche. Apple's own comeback was built on an mp3 player! MS is a classic American company staffed by classic MBAs: people who only see the next Powerpoint or the next quarterly results.

There are profitable niches out there. The ipod wasn't great for working out, and the zune could have taken share from the touch nano, which was a misstep. But MS never believed in Zune with marketing and message and mission.

 

[digger1985]

My daughter is going to scream bloody murder, She had a Zune 30gb from the very beginning and it just finally had to be replaced (the headset jack finally loosened up enough that only one ear works) she received it for Christmas 2006. 4 Plus years of constant use (and I do mean constant).

In Feb this year she borrowed a friends new iPod for a few days to allow her to make a buying decision (Birthday gift time)... She HATED the iPod declared it the biggest POS in the world and decided to go with a Zune HD 32gb.

The Zune HD 32gb is without a doubt the slickest piece of hardware I have held and she loves it without a doubt, lets hope it lasts as long as her last one by then Android should have settled down enough to provide something to pacify her

How could you hate the iPod, but like the ZuneHD? I'm assuming she's comparing the iPod to the Zune, but not know that the ZuneHD is just like the iPod touch?

The same way I could. The iPod was intollerable; the iPod touch would barely be tollerable but with the forced used of iTunes it's still unacceptable.

The Zune, on the other hand, worked just fine, did what I wanted it to do without any fuss, and frankly the ZuneHD works great. It is a better device. It failed because it lacked momentum and because people are idiots.

I'm always vastly unimpressed with Apple products; I've never found any more than just tolerable and most I refuse to work with or use. I just hate their design, from the ground up. I don't like their interfaces, their OS's seem inconsistent to me, and their support is assinine.

Why no one has created an embedded virus to fuck up iPods and released it with a time delay in a bunch of pirated music, I don't know, but I'll laugh when they do and your precious iDevices become unrepairable scrap.

This is one of the main problems with MS users. Their apathetic nature. They user the hardware but don't do anything to support Ms through word of mouth, through press, through forum posts, through marketing etc.

It's only when MS stops doing something that people then start complaining. See Windows Home Server for example. As soon as DE was pulled out everyone started screaming. Zune goes, you will people saying Zune HD was the best device they ever had. The question is, where were all those times when MS was getting bashed by Apple in the media, in the adverts etc.

Sometimes it feels like I am the only MS user who proactively pushes MS forward. Apple has a legion of people pushing their products forwards. MS on the other hand has no one. That is why they are forced to do such things. If you don't support them, they have no option but to cut products.

 

[digger1985]

MS is losing opportunities by constantly abandoning products, even if they're niches. We see it in car makers all the time. Everyone abandoned tiny roadsters, so when Mazda made the Miata and MADE IT GOOD, they had a rock to build on. Jeep kept going through the tough times with a similar niche. Apple's own comeback was built on an mp3 player! MS is a classic American company staffed by classic MBAs: people who only see the next Powerpoint or the next quarterly results.

There are profitable niches out there. The ipod wasn't great for working out, and the zune could have taken share from the touch nano, which was a misstep. But MS never believed in Zune with marketing and message and mission.

Well Apple pulled out xServes. I am sure that was a profitable niche as well. But hey, let's not point towards Apple failures eh?

 

[clackerd]

Why no one has created an embedded virus to fuck up iPods and released it with a time delay in a bunch of pirated music, I don't know, but I'll laugh when they do and your precious iDevices become unrepairable scrap.

IF YOU DON'T LIKE WHAT I LIKE THEN I DON'T WANT YOU TO BE HAPPY AT ALL