In addition to being full of screens, China now wants its cars to be packed with AI.
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There’s a lot of hype about Chinese EVs—is any of it true?
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Everything about this article reeks of "American exceptionalism"
The entire planet has been caught with their pants down as China seems to have been the only country who didn't half-arse electrification.
(Global) People are now buying Chinese cars not because they're cheaper, but because they're straight up better. It's the 90s Japanese auto takeover, but it's China's turn now.
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jonbob_newcastle
Ars Praetorian
Now tell me you've never seen a Beemer, a Merc, or an Audi.
If they didn't meet EU safety standards they wouldn't be available for sale there at all... much like the Cybertruck.
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A 20' container, or a 40' container? The former is basically the same size as a car, so I could fit that. The latter, not so much.
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Underpaid Chinese workers and robots without human rights, subsidized by an underdeveloped country that is stealing all your know-how, are producing substandard, lousy vehicles... yet you slap on 100%+ tariffs because they might ruin your 'magnificent' auto industry. Very confident, are you?
Btw, @DrGitlin: Tesla and other startups? Tesla market cap: $1.4T > Ford + GM: $110B.
Btw, @DrGitlin: Tesla and other startups? Tesla market cap: $1.4T > Ford + GM: $110B.
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Yeah, but we should do something about that, no?
There really needs to be huge subsidies for merchant car manufacturing to allow startups to ship, to try to drive down the cost of mass manufacturing of cars. It’s not a real market if startups fail before having a product.
A lot of interesting car concepts, but the capital needed to get to market, for incumbents too, means only milquetoast little-risk vehicles make it.
And even if they do make it, there are crazy conditions that must be worked around, like only being able sell cars through dealers, further increasing capital costs.
It’s an embarrassment.
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Yep. 1,000% better
Wait til you get old enough to have hand tremors. Or try to use a touch screen on an american gravel road.
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I own an EV and plan on buying a second. But I own a house.
I have never rented at a place that had external power outlets anywhere near the parking.
Of course, rental houses essentially don't exist in my market. They cost more than buying a house so only people who don't plan to stay or who have enough cash to afford a house but not enough credit to get a loan rent stand-alone houses.
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"y'all" coming from an expat is delicious sarcasm...
I have a Subaru BRZ, which somewhat meets your description and happens to be a lot of fun going around corners. (I am sure the GPS track recorded off its shark fin is of interest and available to some interested parties though.)
But if I was less interested in going around corners, I might accept all the other things. I could see that happening.
I am not simple about my desires for "car" (fun/transport/?) I expect much of the commentariat here to be conflicted.
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Seems like a bit of a weird article. I have a Chinese car (xpeng g6), and it's great. What's more, the 2025 model brought back manual control for air vents after following Tesla's crap lead on touchscreen only controls for the prior model.
Disappointingly one sided, but at least honest that it's based on forum chat, not actual experience.
Disappointingly one sided, but at least honest that it's based on forum chat, not actual experience.
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We all know of heat death, the ultimate end of energy in the universe. May I posit the wage death: when every Nation will have wages slightly higher than China's wages in 2000
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This got downvoted, but I loathe rental car companies.
- I've been accused of not returning the car ("hands free" drop off at airport) and only avoided that becoming a thing because I had photos of it in their lot, trapped by other cars.
- I have received a vehicle half the size I requested and had to drive 700 miles with luggage on peoples' laps
- have had to go to a different rental company because I there were no cars even though I had a 6-month older reservation
- Have had to go to a different rental company because the car I was given was defective and wouldn't turn left.
- I have spent far, far, far too long waiting at rental car desks.
I'm not even adding the predatory fuel charges and assortment of add-ons.
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It's sort of fascinating to hear all the "oh no trust me the cars are crap not worth it" in this thread when in the last thread on the topic we had some of the same people (including the OP) breathlessly explaining why it was so important to take a protectionist stance and hedge the Chinese out of the US market entirely.
The positions feel somewhat at odds with each other. Are Chinese EVs irrelevant garbage or is it our patriotic duty to protect Ford as suggested in a previous article?
The positions feel somewhat at odds with each other. Are Chinese EVs irrelevant garbage or is it our patriotic duty to protect Ford as suggested in a previous article?
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Add a stick to it and window cranks, and I'm with you! Now pardon me while I shake out the dashboard carpet...
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I should have been clearer - I know they exist, but aren't sold here. No ID3, and probably won't get the ID Polo, considering we don't get the gas Polo (or even the base model Golf any more). It is really frustrating because the incumbents don't seem interested. If it is because nobody here wants small cars, we'll find out when the Chinese brands can export 49,000 cars to us. Unless they do the same thing and only send their high end models.
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I only ever rented one place that didn't have a place where I could have charged, and that was the first apartment I ever rented. All but one of the rest had a garage but even that one had a private driveway.
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Sadly yes, same as with Saab when GM owned the company and then started using their crappy parts bib to build the cars to their utter detriment.
Volvo being part of the Geely group isn't a bad thing though. Geely are building a reputation for solid reliability, excellent tech and great design. The new Zeekrs in particular are getting a lot of positive reviews in markets outside China as well as performing well intehir home market.
I think they're finding their way with Volvo products, the new ones on show at Beijing a week or so ago seem very solid and more traditional Volvo. And they share tech with the Chinese house brands in a good way which will help them compete in a way that many solely European brands are failing at.
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I can't speak for everyone, but I don't necessarily mind one large screen...depending on the definition of "large".
I wouldn't mind something a bit larger than my current double-DIN head unit.
But the 12"+ screens in some cars always look sorta wedged-in to me, like the designers got a last-minute directive to fit one in.
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I agree with you about Saab, which died the typical GM death but Volvo really didn't lose its identity under Ford like that. Sure there was some cross-make development like the C1 platform that was shared by the V40, Ford Focus (European), Mazda3 but Volvo had been partnering with other companies before the Ford acquisition (looking sideways at the miserable PRV V6). The move from their traditional rear wheel drive models to front wheel drive predated Ford and I'm not sure anything else could be pointed at as "Ford did that!"
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All fair points.
But I'd counter that they were starved of development money by Ford for a long time and that had a big effect. It feels like Geely are happy to invest more for the cachet of owning a Euro marque (two with Polestar) and seem to utilised that for their home market bands like Zeekr and Lynx & Co which definitely have more Euro influence and designers than other Chinese cars.
Ford's influence was felt in the restrictions imposed rather than direct intervention.
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Something to think about for those who view Chinese cars a copy/paste of other designs.
The Chinese car industry is massively invested in R&D and this doesn't appear to be slowing down.
As an example here's a quote about BYD's hiring in recent years and what they're hiring for:
That's from this article:
https://carnewschina.com/2024/12/30...tomaker-and-nearly-110000-engineers-ceo-says/
The Chinese car industry is massively invested in R&D and this doesn't appear to be slowing down.
As an example here's a quote about BYD's hiring in recent years and what they're hiring for:
That's from this article:
https://carnewschina.com/2024/12/30...tomaker-and-nearly-110000-engineers-ceo-says/
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This article is a pretty low effort post for Ars. Please do better.
All of the fear mongering around Chinese data collection now can equally be applied by the rest of the world to American vehicles. Do I want to drive a Tesla if I think that Musk can gather whatever data he wants, or shut my car down remotely if he has another ketamine-fuelled tantrum? How about the long-promised, paid for and never delivered FSD that so many people are hanging out for? Orders that are paid in full that have never been fulfilled even years later, and now he says "Oh, sorry, that hardware I promised could do FSD, well, nah, it actually can't – if you want FSD I'll give you a discount on a new Tesla though". Like seriously?
Here in Australia, we get a lot of the new Chinese brands. There is the BYD Atto 1, that has a driveaway price of $25,000 AUD, including GST, which is roughly $15,500 USD once you take off 10% for GST and then factor in the exchange rate. There's all of the Geely brands – including Zeekr, Polestar and Lotus. MG, GWM, Chery. BYD and Denza. Take your pick. It's a brave new world out there and the USA is no longer the king of the hill.
I recently purchased a Polestar 2, having driven various versions of the Audi S3 for the past 10+ years, and the Polestar is an excellent vehicle – a true driver's EV.
It combines some of the best minimal and classy European design with cutting-edge Chinese technology, and the whole package is very compelling.
The Long Range, Dual Motor variant has an 82kW/h battery that delivers 590km range, and with over 300kW to the wheels, it can get all 2,100kgs of vehicle and batteries to do the 0-100 sprint in around 4.5 seconds. The Bowers and Wilkins stereo possibly sounds better than my hifi system at home, the leather seats are comfy and the panoramic sunroof is just the icing on the cake.
All of the fear mongering around Chinese data collection now can equally be applied by the rest of the world to American vehicles. Do I want to drive a Tesla if I think that Musk can gather whatever data he wants, or shut my car down remotely if he has another ketamine-fuelled tantrum? How about the long-promised, paid for and never delivered FSD that so many people are hanging out for? Orders that are paid in full that have never been fulfilled even years later, and now he says "Oh, sorry, that hardware I promised could do FSD, well, nah, it actually can't – if you want FSD I'll give you a discount on a new Tesla though". Like seriously?
Here in Australia, we get a lot of the new Chinese brands. There is the BYD Atto 1, that has a driveaway price of $25,000 AUD, including GST, which is roughly $15,500 USD once you take off 10% for GST and then factor in the exchange rate. There's all of the Geely brands – including Zeekr, Polestar and Lotus. MG, GWM, Chery. BYD and Denza. Take your pick. It's a brave new world out there and the USA is no longer the king of the hill.
I recently purchased a Polestar 2, having driven various versions of the Audi S3 for the past 10+ years, and the Polestar is an excellent vehicle – a true driver's EV.
It combines some of the best minimal and classy European design with cutting-edge Chinese technology, and the whole package is very compelling.
The Long Range, Dual Motor variant has an 82kW/h battery that delivers 590km range, and with over 300kW to the wheels, it can get all 2,100kgs of vehicle and batteries to do the 0-100 sprint in around 4.5 seconds. The Bowers and Wilkins stereo possibly sounds better than my hifi system at home, the leather seats are comfy and the panoramic sunroof is just the icing on the cake.
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I think there are a number of underlying problems with the US industry that China addresses:
US cars got a LOT better as a result of that pressure. But that's not how we're responding to this. Instead, we have a bipartisan effort in the Senate to seal the US off from China, banning any joint effort like NUMMI as if there's nothing there to learn. US automakers will just get weaker. Electrification is the obvious outcome. Electrification benefits from size reduction and simplification. US automakers can't afford a revenue drop, and the government will protect them from one, and they're going to milk us for that revenue rather than deliver what the country needs and customers increasingly will want.
I'll add BYD has a factory in the US. It's in Lancaster, CA. They make electric buses and have been for over a decade. They're fantastic.
- The industry predicted that EVs would be cheaper than ICE around 2020. 6 years later they're still charging us more for EVs presumably because EV buyers will pay more and they like the money.
- If the vehicle interface is going to just be an iPad, it might as well be inexpensive. It's not like Cadillac is returning the savings to us.
- Many of us dislike that the formula for US safety is to wrap more steel around us to counter the extra steel everyone has wrapped around them, and would like a return to more modest vehicles.
US cars got a LOT better as a result of that pressure. But that's not how we're responding to this. Instead, we have a bipartisan effort in the Senate to seal the US off from China, banning any joint effort like NUMMI as if there's nothing there to learn. US automakers will just get weaker. Electrification is the obvious outcome. Electrification benefits from size reduction and simplification. US automakers can't afford a revenue drop, and the government will protect them from one, and they're going to milk us for that revenue rather than deliver what the country needs and customers increasingly will want.
I'll add BYD has a factory in the US. It's in Lancaster, CA. They make electric buses and have been for over a decade. They're fantastic.
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Nope. You need to live within commuting distance of an L2 charger. Here in Atlanta, MARTA has L2 chargers at many of their Park-N-Ride sites. Plug the car in, hop on a bus or train, and go about your business. I have done that many, may times in the 2+ years that I have lived here. And I have never lived anywhere that I could charge at home or at work.
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The majority of the time I spend in my car is karaoke. What fun is music if you can't sing along?
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Sub $30K USD is pretty cheap for a new car these days. It is worth noting that $30K in 2026 is compared to $15K in 1999.
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Well, considering that Mainland Chinese cars are coming to Canada, it might only be necessary to take a trip up there to drive them soon (the Chinese-built Tesla Model 3 is already available up there, but that mostly has improved fit and finish compared to the California ones).
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Here's a review of the tiny Wu-ling EV pictured at the top of the story by an American plying his trade as a YouTube (and Chinese social media) based automotive journalist, it sells for US$6,500 and they've sold like hotcakes for years to people looking to upgrade from a bicycle or scooter who don't have funds for anything grander, very much not an export option:
http://www.wheelsboy.net/sys-nd/146.html
http://www.wheelsboy.net/sys-nd/146.html
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The demonstration BYD ‘flash’ charging station didn’t use a grid connection, relying entirely on on-site storage and power imports from vehicles. However, normally most fast charging sites would still have a grid connection, even if they rely primarily on solar and/or wind along with storage (like the Tesla ‘Oasis’ station: https://electrek.co/2025/07/03/tesla-launches-oasis-supercharger-with-solar-farm-off-grid-batteries/ ).
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I’m in my early 30’s and also favor physical buttons and switches for important or commonly used controls, although I don’t mind a vehicle also including a touchscreen, as long as it works well.
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For the demonstration sure - but BYD have already installed 5,000 of these and are continuing on with deployment:
https://insideevs.com/news/791930/byd-charging-network-5000-flash/
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This reminds me of the wailing and gnashing of teeth about Japanese cars in the 1970s. There was a lot of woe is me back then too. Australia has lost its domestic manufacturing capability thanks to GM, Ford, Toyota and Mitsubishi pulling out when the government refused to keep subsidizing them. We now have an unbelievable array of imports. Those complaining about screens and interior design should look to home. Tesla started this nonsense. As for style, we anre inundated with ugly huge and very conservative looking trucks and suvs from the US, the usual quirky Japanese and European imports and shiploads of Chinese Evs. Yes the Chinese cars seem a little gaudy, but fuck, they’re just cars. Here, in March BYD was third highest selling car in the market overall, not just for evs. They are great vehicles, and everyone I know that has one loves them. That market share is sure to grow as Evs make a hell of a lot of sense while the theocracies (US, Iran, and Isreal) are beefing it up in west Asia and screwing up the rest of the world’s energy supplies. Energy security is real, and electricity doesn’t need ships.
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Do I like cars with touchscreens? No, but pretty much every modern car has that particular cancer. There are, essentially, no modern cars I actually want.
Am I buying a BYD Atto 2? Yes, it's being delivered in July. It's a $24,000 USD EV with plenty of range for my needs.
Am I buying a BYD Atto 2? Yes, it's being delivered in July. It's a $24,000 USD EV with plenty of range for my needs.
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That's right! Drop an extension cord from your 4th floor apartment across the sidewalk and just plug in overnight!No you do not. Level 1 charging only requires a regular electrical outlet. Plug it in overnight and unplug in the morning. Works for me!
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93% of people buying new cars are homeowners and only about 3% of Americans own an EV right now.
According to US Census, in 2023 73% of households in the US live in an single family home (63%) or a townhouse (10%). Now that isn't everyone (and some of those homes aren't immediately EV-ready) but that's a lot more people than the 3% of households that own an EV. This is a "glass 2/3 full, 1/3 empty" type of deal since US Census says that out of all households in the US, 35% rent (versus 65% the own their own home)... and about 15% rent an apartment.
In the long term we will need to build EV charging infrastructure for people without access to ovenight charging, we still have over a decade (probably or more if you do the math on production build up) before total EV adoption is high enough for this to become an issue for continued adoption growth. Otherwise, people who aren't homeowners are unlikely to be buying new vehicles anyway (and there are still enough homeowners to leftover to buy used EVs).
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That's well behind the times, China banned retractable door handles and already all the new models no longer have them, there's a legal requirement to have mechanical door lock mechanisms. Watch something like this and its follow-ups for details (and a full run-down of the Beijing show, it's far more insightful than this article:
View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qs_ihHX_uOY
They move fast.
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Not quite sure why there’s an avalanche of downvotes (on my comments and apparently everyone else’s). It was actually a book not an article, from 25 years ago.
https://www.amazon.com/Year-Without-Made-China-Adventure/dp/0470116137
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Don’t worry US citizens the government will decide what you can buy and save you from the nasty touch screens. China evs will proliferate outside US, either way US manufactures not be competitive.
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