There’s a lot of hype about Chinese EVs—is any of it true?

In addition to being full of screens, China now wants its cars to be packed with AI.

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[Alt-X]

Strange, my Chinese car is praised for the high quality buttons and putting functions back from touchscreen to buttons. Maybe you don't know because your knowledge is based on reading 12yr old comments on social media?

 

[Bultrug]

Any nation with a minimum wage should enact a tariff on imports at a level specific to eliminate wage arbitrage. Factories keep timesheets and shipping manifests, so it should be relatively easy to ensure that all products sold in a given nation have their labor costs normalized to that nation's minimum wage.

That would go a long way toward eliminating dumping right there.

If you want to compete by having a better supply chain, or better engineering processes, sure. If your core competency is "we don't bother to pay our workers" then you do not get to sell your products in my nation.

Right... And how would developing nations ever climb the ladder? A knowledge ecosystem with universities and companies doesn't just happen or come cheap. You compete on what you've got, that is the free market thinking the US has pushed for the last 70 years.

And by your reasoning, most of
Europe has a higher minimum wage. Should they just tariff US products to equalize that?

 

[AndyCraig]

The basic truth about Chinese manufacturing of things they focus on (solar, cars etc) is that they listen to what what the market wants, they improve quickly, and they can deliver it at a price that is very competitive. The latest models here in the UK have interior quality similar to BMW and Audi, yet the price is significantly cheaper. In the long run I don't see how volume car companies can beat the Chinese, without trump style tariff barriers. Whether it's a full EV, or a plug in hybrid, they will sell really well if the relevant authorities allow it.

 

[Erbium168]

The problem for the USA comes down to this: wine taste on a beer budget. US consumers want want want all the things....then complain when they are expensive. They want: a massively large vehicle, they want high ground clearance, they want a long range, they want all the tech from power-everything to infotainment and lane-assist, they want giant massive roads to drive wicked fast on.

...and then when handed the bill--not only the sticker purchase price, and the cost of insurance, but the cost of maintaining the infra to use it on they complain they cannot afford it.

Yea the costs are high--that is the dispassionate mistress of economics.

People all seem not to realise that with so many things to go wrong, ongoing maintenance is likely to be expensive. It reminds me of a comment (may have been Jay Leno, not sure) that if you buy a $100000 car, seven years down the road it still costs as much to run as a $100000 car, it's just that the depreciation has been transferred to maintenance cost.

 

[Erbium168]

The latest models here in the UK have interior quality similar to BMW and Audi, yet the price is significantly cheaper.

However they lag on performance and badge status.
When I say performance I don't mean rather pointless metrics like 0-100kph straight line acceleration, I mean how fast they would get round a real racetrack with a few added obstacles.
The issue is that in reality very few people want that performance and of the ones who do, probably many of them are unable to tell the difference.
If badge status goes, all that Europe really has left is protectionism in one form or another.

 

[SFellowes]

There are few restrictions on car imports into Australia, ever since General Motors (Holden), Ford, and Toyota closed their local manufacturing plants between 2016 and 2017. Chinese EV manufacturers have since flooded the market with inexpensive but impressive cars. My wife and I recently made the EV plunge, purchasing a BYD Sealion 7 for around USD $40k — with a range of approximately 340 miles in ECO mode. The car is luxurious and finished to a standard I’d compare to a BMW. It’s genuinely extraordinary.

I understand the US government’s intent to protect jobs and preserve the domestic auto industry. There’s nothing to protect down here, so I have no qualms about buying Chinese, regardless of rumoured government subsidies. European manufacturers are moving fast to close the gap. My concern for the US is that tariffs may protect jobs in the short term, but if American automakers fall too far behind on the technology curve, they risk becoming marginalised in the global market — and no tariff wall lasts forever.

 

[SFellowes]

There are few restrictions on car imports into Australia, ever since General Motors (Holden), Ford, and Toyota closed their local manufacturing plants between 2016 and 2017. Chinese EV manufacturers have since flooded the market with inexpensive but impressive cars. My wife and I recently made the EV plunge, purchasing a BYD Sealion 7, a mid sized SUV, for around USD $40k — with a range of approximately 340 miles in ECO mode. The car is luxurious and finished to a standard I’d compare to a BMW. It’s genuinely extraordinary.

I understand the US government’s intent to protect jobs and preserve the domestic auto industry. There’s nothing to protect down here, so I have no qualms about buying Chinese, regardless of rumoured government subsidies. European manufacturers are moving fast to close the gap. My concern for the US is that tariffs may protect jobs in the short term, but if American automakers fall too far behind on the technology curve, they risk becoming marginalised in the global market — and no tariff wall lasts forever.

 

[ScruffyKiwi]

The cheap Chinese cars don't meet US or European crash safety standards, which is part of why they are cheap. The rest is down to low wages and government subsidies. For that matter cheap European cars are made in low wage places too like Poland, Romania and Czechia and US makers moved production to Mexico for the same reason.
Apparently Chinese gasoline cars sell like hotcakes in Mexico, where they undercut locally produced cars. I'll also point out that Vinfast which builds cars in Vietnam was a hot mess for several years with atrocious build quality and glitchy software.

No. If they don’t meet crash standards they don’t sell in the EU.

The only example I can think of where this is not the case for the New Zealand market is that the DongFeng Box. It received a 3 star Euro rating which is not great and when introduced into NZ was unrated as the model specs were not the same as the EU.

They addressed this by updating the model.

By the way, this EV is the cheapest car of any type sold in New Zealand. NZD 30k (that includes 15% sales tax), so roughly $15,500 USD before any tax

 

[Dr Gitlin]

They exist. I just don't think they're sold in North America, including Canada. There are plenty of good small hatchback, compact SUVs now that are not Chinese.

F.eg the new ID Polo:

View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=25OfJS-gb0U&t=50s

Because as I explained in the article, Americans do not want to buy small cars unless they can help it.

 

[Mdoug1974]

The biggest problem in the US is the American automotive industry is so stuck in its ways, so stuck in the past they just can’t get to grip with the reality of the modern automotive markets. I’d they dont get to grip with it they will continue to fall behind the rest of the world.

 

[andygates]

Watching the American domestic fleet mutate into a monster truck and ebikes.

 

[Ushio]

There are few restrictions on car imports into Australia, ever since General Motors (Holden), Ford, and Toyota closed their local manufacturing plants between 2016 and 2017. Chinese EV manufacturers have since flooded the market with inexpensive but impressive cars. My wife and I recently made the EV plunge, purchasing a BYD Sealion 7 for around USD $40k — with a range of approximately 340 miles in ECO mode. The car is luxurious and finished to a standard I’d compare to a BMW. It’s genuinely extraordinary.

I understand the US government’s intent to protect jobs and preserve the domestic auto industry. There’s nothing to protect down here, so I have no qualms about buying Chinese, regardless of rumoured government subsidies. European manufacturers are moving fast to close the gap. My concern for the US is that tariffs may protect jobs in the short term, but if American automakers fall too far behind on the technology curve, they risk becoming marginalised in the global market — and no tariff wall lasts forever.

US manufacturers already are irrelevant in the global market. Most of their models sold outside of the US aren't sold in the US anyway.

Ford has the EV Explorer and Capri in Europe and both are badge engineered Volkswagen vehicles that will never be sold in the US.

 

[Midnitte]

Toward the end of his administration, President Joe Biden levied a 100 percent tariff on Chinese EVs. Under the Biden and then Trump administrations, Congress passed a law restricting the sale of Chinese-linked connected car software in the US. President Trump has added further tariffs to Chinese imports

God, such a stupid policy from both sides.

They really couldn't have made those tariffs sunset on a depreciating scale? Even just making it go from 100% to 80% over a five or ten year period would have done so much...

Instead we have companies playing tiptoe with EVs

 

[Tonkaman]

God, such a stupid policy from both sides.

They really couldn't have made those tariffs sunset on a depreciating scale? Even just making it go from 100% to 80% over a five or ten year period would have done so much...

Instead we have companies playing tiptoe with EVs

Tariffing subsidized Chinese cars in the US has nothing to do with EVs. Companies are "playing tiptoe" because Trump removed all incentives for them, tried to stop funding the infrastructure for them, and the majority of US consumers don't want them without the incentives or infrastructure existing.