That Dragon, Cancer and how the digital age talks about death

How has the advent of technology changed the conversation about our mortality?

Read the whole story

 

[Lonyo]

I wonder how many of those who have discussed death have done so after a specific trigger, such as a diagnosis.

My mother has discussed her will/etc with us, but in part it was due to the death of her dad (after a period of illness).
My dad has discussed these things due to a cancer diagnosis.
My grandmother was diagnosed with cancer, and as far as I know discussed things with her kids after the diagnosis.
My other grandfather died from a car accident and I am not sure whether things were ever discussed regarding what he wanted, because there was no real "warning", other than age, that there was a need to..

We would be part of the group who have discussed it, but it's been discussed in response to a trigger event in both cases which makes it become a relevant issue..

 

[cassandrakhaw]

Lonyo[/url]":1stvuqp3]I wonder how many of those who have discussed death have done so after a specific trigger, such as a diagnosis.

My mother has discussed her will/etc with us, but in part it was due to the death of her dad (after a period of illness).
My dad has discussed these things due to a cancer diagnosis.
My grandmother was diagnosed with cancer, and as far as I know discussed things with her kids after the diagnosis.
My other grandfather died from a car accident and I am not sure whether things were ever discussed regarding what he wanted, because there was no real "warning", other than age, that there was a need to..

We would be part of the group who have discussed it, but it's been discussed in response to a trigger event in both cases which makes it become a relevant issue..

Best wishes and good vibes where needed in your situation. I winced at what happened to your other grandfather. Random death affects me in a big way.

It's a good question, and one I've never considered myself. My parents were very morbidly intent on making sure I understood the consequences of death from a young, YOUNG (oy) age. So I've always grown up with thoughts of it. Sounds horrific, but it's given me a good perspective on my mortality and the necessity of making due with what I have.

 

[mrseb]

cassandrakhaw[/url]":3gu6q4df]

Lonyo[/url]":3gu6q4df]I wonder how many of those who have discussed death have done so after a specific trigger, such as a diagnosis.

My mother has discussed her will/etc with us, but in part it was due to the death of her dad (after a period of illness).
My dad has discussed these things due to a cancer diagnosis.
My grandmother was diagnosed with cancer, and as far as I know discussed things with her kids after the diagnosis.
My other grandfather died from a car accident and I am not sure whether things were ever discussed regarding what he wanted, because there was no real "warning", other than age, that there was a need to..

We would be part of the group who have discussed it, but it's been discussed in response to a trigger event in both cases which makes it become a relevant issue..

Best wishes and good vibes where needed in your situation. I winced at what happened to your other grandfather. Random death affects me in a big way.

It's a good question, and one I've never considered myself. My parents were very morbidly intent on making sure I understood the consequences of death from a young, YOUNG (oy) age. So I've always grown up with thoughts of it. Sounds horrific, but it's given me a good perspective on my mortality and the necessity of making due with what I have.

On the flip side, I have almost no experience/knowledge/etc of death. I am fortunate that I haven't yet had a direct family member die (a grandmother died when I was 5 or 6, but I don't remember much about it, and we weren't very close to her).

There was a great uncle who died, and a teacher from school who I was close to... and they both made me feel a bit sad... but I haven't yet had something truly wrenching.

Or maybe I'm just not affected by such things. I have sometimes wondered if my emotions are a bit... muted. Both positive and negative emotions - neither of them seem to move the needle THAT much.

Ho hum.

 

[Borgmeister]

It's a product of our time for sure. The death of my grandfather hit me like an artillery strike - I suspect that is very much to do with the relative disconnect most - not all - have with death and dying, he would have been far more accustomed to the loss of relatives and friends than myself.

I will take a look at this title, even if I do think I will find the emotional side potentially cloying.

Unfortunately the work I'm involved in really requires me to deprecate my fear and feelings on illness such as cancer or I don't think I'd be able to cope. My colleagues would likely agree.

 

[dhexcxr]

Brava. Masterful article. Wonderful writing.

I work in a children's hospital and the hematology/oncology wing is on my floor. It's wonderful to see the hope and happiness those families manage to hold on to. There's a little girl there now, who sometimes stays weeks at a time, who's probably about the same age as my daughter, I worry every time I see that she's back.......I don't know how they do it.

 

[SplatMan_DK]

I used to be fascinated by games such as these - games or art that have meaning, purpose, expression, emotions.

Now I am a father of 4 kids, and I can't stand the thought of one of them dying - let alone wither away slowly. I have enormous respect for what Amy and Ryan Green did, and I purchased the game to support this piece of art. I don't think i will ever play the game though. I haven't even found the courage to download it yet. Maybe I should have just mailed a check instead of buying the game.

Perhaps I will get the courage when my kids are older. A lot older... :-/

 

[Munden]

For even more insight into the story, check out the podcast The Cathedral from Gimlet Media.

 

[Greek Toomey]

mikesmith[/url]":24mab51k]So while maybe you could call this ode to vanity art, I'd place it in the same vein as emo teenage poetry. Much more about the feelings of the author in too obvious a way to be artistically valuable.

I'm impressed by your ability to so casually dismiss someone's expression of loss and grieving. I can only conclude that you must have led a life of such extremely good fortune that you are incapable of empathizing with those who have suffered.

I hope your good fortune holds, and you never learn the pain of loss first-hand. But if you do, I hope that you don't encounter anyone who dismisses your attempt to cope with your grief as vanity.

 

[MCYL]

As a father of two young children with the baby boy almost one...I don't think I have the stomach for this game.

Just this article makes me queasy. I truly feel for the games creator

 

[MaxArt]

mikesmith[/url]":2ombkk2t]

Greek Toomey[/url]":2ombkk2t]

mikesmith[/url]":2ombkk2t]So while maybe you could call this ode to vanity art, I'd place it in the same vein as emo teenage poetry. Much more about the feelings of the author in too obvious a way to be artistically valuable.

I'm impressed by your ability to so casually dismiss someone's expression of loss and grieving. I can only conclude that you must have led a life of such extremely good fortune that you are incapable of empathizing with those who have suffered.

I hope your good fortune holds, and you never learn the pain of loss first-hand. But if you do, I hope that you don't encounter anyone who dismisses your attempt to cope with your grief as vanity.

The passive aggressiveness of your post belies a lack of emotional control. I don't dismiss the author's experience or feelings, I simply dismiss the idea of such a heavy handed narrative as art. I'm unsurprised that the view would be negatively received as most people are incapable of true extrospection and at best can only relate to others only as through their own limited experience. As such my view receives short shrift and hasty dismissal, as relating to it deeply might challenge one's own views.

We're humans. We're social animals. We build our "emotional control" through relations with the other. We need them to learn what "true extrospection" is.
If you only rely on yourself, you risk developing sociopathy.

Now, cancer is a grievous beast. It destroys lives, of both those who are affected and those who are near them. But we tend to keep our grief to ourselves, so relating on the matter is difficult.
The Greens has the courage to share their story, so people could learn some experience about coping with the tragedy. I wish I had some when my mother died of cancer a while ago...

 

[MCYL]

SplatMan_DK[/url]":ke7jkes2]I used to be fascinated by games such as these - games or art that have meaning, purpose, expression, emotions.

Now I am a father of 4 kids, and I can't stand the thought of one of them dying - let alone wither away slowly. I have enormous respect for what Amy and Ryan Green did, and I purchased the game to support this piece of art. I don't think i will ever play the game though. I haven't even found the courage to download it yet. Maybe I should have just mailed a check instead of buying the game.

Perhaps I will get the courage when my kids are older. A lot older... :-/

X2. I think I'll do just that.
I have lost relatives to cancer, but in each case it related to an organ that would have been affected by their excesses, plus they did manage to live to over twice my current age. With kids it's simply horrifying for parents.

As to the poster labeling Green's work as a tear jerker....
It's their way of expressing their grief, who are you to judge?

 

[Buran]

SplatMan_DK[/url]":1hqpzdld]I used to be fascinated by games such as these - games or art that have meaning, purpose, expression, emotions.

Now I am a father of 4 kids, and I can't stand the thought of one of them dying - let alone wither away slowly. I have enormous respect for what Amy and Ryan Green did, and I purchased the game to support this piece of art. I don't think i will ever play the game though. I haven't even found the courage to download it yet. Maybe I should have just mailed a check instead of buying the game.

Perhaps I will get the courage when my kids are older. A lot older... :-/

I cannot even read the article without skimming past the illustrating picture... and I have to admit I still haven't really read it or the original review. It's just too hard.

My daughter was a 23-week preemie and we were scared of losing her (and still are, sometimes). I could not read apocalypse/zombie novels for a long time, even though I love them, because I knew that if the hospital ever was overrun or lost power, the life support equipment would fail and she and the other babies in the NICU would die. I am slowly regaining the ability to read my favourite genres again, but I tend to click away to a different book if one starts getting into too much danger to young characters. Reminding myself that the books are fiction rarely helps.

While other moms rejoice when their baby sleeps through the night, we worry that she's quit breathing. We have an Owlet pulse ox monitor that we use at night which helps us with this, at least.

I suspect that I have a mild form of PTSD as a result of it all, but she's such a cute baby and is doing incredibly well. It's been worth it, despite all the problems.

 

[MCYL]

mikesmith[/url]":34uv1xet]

MaxArt[/url]":34uv1xet]

mikesmith[/url]":34uv1xet]

Greek Toomey[/url]":34uv1xet]

mikesmith[/url]":34uv1xet]So while maybe you could call this ode to vanity art, I'd place it in the same vein as emo teenage poetry. Much more about the feelings of the author in too obvious a way to be artistically valuable.

I'm impressed by your ability to so casually dismiss someone's expression of loss and grieving. I can only conclude that you must have led a life of such extremely good fortune that you are incapable of empathizing with those who have suffered.

I hope your good fortune holds, and you never learn the pain of loss first-hand. But if you do, I hope that you don't encounter anyone who dismisses your attempt to cope with your grief as vanity.

The passive aggressiveness of your post belies a lack of emotional control. I don't dismiss the author's experience or feelings, I simply dismiss the idea of such a heavy handed narrative as art. I'm unsurprised that the view would be negatively received as most people are incapable of true extrospection and at best can only relate to others only as through their own limited experience. As such my view receives short shrift and hasty dismissal, as relating to it deeply might challenge one's own views.

We're humans. We're social animals. We build our "emotional control" through relations with the other. We need them to learn what "true extrospection" is.
If you only rely on yourself, you risk developing sociopathy.

Now, cancer is a grievous beast. It destroys lives, of both those who are affected and those who are near them. But we tend to keep our grief to ourselves, so relating on the matter is difficult.
The Greens has the courage to share their story, so people could learn some experience about coping with the tragedy. I wish I had some when my mother died of cancer a while ago...

True extrospection springs from the absolute realization and acceptance that one actually can't know or understand the other fully. Anything else is just the cheaper relation, empathy, the idea that you can feel the feelings of the other, and sometimes one simply can't.

Like I said, I don't dismiss the creators feelings or experience, I simply don't believe it reaches the level of art, that such a simple and clearly explained position is meeting with such angst here is a sad commentary on the ability of posters here to relate to and accept the views of others that don't align with the view they've already formed.

Not believing it's art, fine. I can align with that. The creators used a game which can be a more powerful medium than a set of picture or a book.

As to surmising the game as the authors vanity? That's where your votes came from and I put a fair guess it's a little stronger than angst. Your problem is not speaking out your views, it's that you spoke a little too much.

 

[AgentSmith]

I'm having a hard time classifying this as a 'game' in the common sense. I think our nomenclature is catching up to our use of technology. I think this is more as an offering of experience. I don't think it makes it any less important though. The only caveat I see is a 'game' can demean such experiences - I don't know in this case but it doesn't look like it does that.

I personally would have a hard time with a game/experience like this. As one who has lost a child and as a first responder who witnesses the end-of-life of many people young and old, sudden or palliative, I've worked hard to distance myself from the experience in order to be able to do my job without losing my mind. Its not denial, as I don't deny this happens to human beings, but it is controlled exposure in order to prevent PTSD and maintain my ability to function as a responder and as a husband and father.

One has to be careful with emotionally charged experiences like this as there can be unanticipated consequences, for even those who feel they can 'handle' such an experience through a simulation.

 

[OrangeCream]

mrseb[/url]":24pzsrmz]

cassandrakhaw[/url]":24pzsrmz]

Lonyo[/url]":24pzsrmz]I wonder how many of those who have discussed death have done so after a specific trigger, such as a diagnosis.

My mother has discussed her will/etc with us, but in part it was due to the death of her dad (after a period of illness).
My dad has discussed these things due to a cancer diagnosis.
My grandmother was diagnosed with cancer, and as far as I know discussed things with her kids after the diagnosis.
My other grandfather died from a car accident and I am not sure whether things were ever discussed regarding what he wanted, because there was no real "warning", other than age, that there was a need to..

We would be part of the group who have discussed it, but it's been discussed in response to a trigger event in both cases which makes it become a relevant issue..

Best wishes and good vibes where needed in your situation. I winced at what happened to your other grandfather. Random death affects me in a big way.

It's a good question, and one I've never considered myself. My parents were very morbidly intent on making sure I understood the consequences of death from a young, YOUNG (oy) age. So I've always grown up with thoughts of it. Sounds horrific, but it's given me a good perspective on my mortality and the necessity of making due with what I have.

On the flip side, I have almost no experience/knowledge/etc of death. I am fortunate that I haven't yet had a direct family member die (a grandmother died when I was 5 or 6, but I don't remember much about it, and we weren't very close to her).

There was a great uncle who died, and a teacher from school who I was close to... and they both made me feel a bit sad... but I haven't yet had something truly wrenching.

Or maybe I'm just not affected by such things. I have sometimes wondered if my emotions are a bit... muted. Both positive and negative emotions - neither of them seem to move the needle THAT much.

Ho hum.

When it really hits you it is hard. The closest feeling is reaching for you car keys in the parking lot to unlock your car and not finding them. You panic. You need to pick up your kids in a half hour, you need to make dinner, you have a movie date with your wife afterwards. All your plans and expectations, everyone depending on you, and now you have to reschedule everything, call your sister in law to get the kids, your wife to make dinner, and you rush back to your office to see where you might have left your keys.

Now replace keys with your dad. All those things you expected to do, like go visit the Smithsonian, hang out and fish in the summer, go hiking in the spring, play with your kids together, go to Disneyland, etc.

Instead of just an evening of plans it is a lifetime or decades or years. And you can't reschedule. Every time you are at an event you will remember someone is missing.

 

[mikesmith]

MCYL[/url]":3f8mc1rk]

mikesmith[/url]":3f8mc1rk]

MaxArt[/url]":3f8mc1rk]

mikesmith[/url]":3f8mc1rk]

Greek Toomey[/url]":3f8mc1rk]

mikesmith[/url]":3f8mc1rk]So while maybe you could call this ode to vanity art, I'd place it in the same vein as emo teenage poetry. Much more about the feelings of the author in too obvious a way to be artistically valuable.

I'm impressed by your ability to so casually dismiss someone's expression of loss and grieving. I can only conclude that you must have led a life of such extremely good fortune that you are incapable of empathizing with those who have suffered.

I hope your good fortune holds, and you never learn the pain of loss first-hand. But if you do, I hope that you don't encounter anyone who dismisses your attempt to cope with your grief as vanity.

The passive aggressiveness of your post belies a lack of emotional control. I don't dismiss the author's experience or feelings, I simply dismiss the idea of such a heavy handed narrative as art. I'm unsurprised that the view would be negatively received as most people are incapable of true extrospection and at best can only relate to others only as through their own limited experience. As such my view receives short shrift and hasty dismissal, as relating to it deeply might challenge one's own views.

We're humans. We're social animals. We build our "emotional control" through relations with the other. We need them to learn what "true extrospection" is.
If you only rely on yourself, you risk developing sociopathy.

Now, cancer is a grievous beast. It destroys lives, of both those who are affected and those who are near them. But we tend to keep our grief to ourselves, so relating on the matter is difficult.
The Greens has the courage to share their story, so people could learn some experience about coping with the tragedy. I wish I had some when my mother died of cancer a while ago...

True extrospection springs from the absolute realization and acceptance that one actually can't know or understand the other fully. Anything else is just the cheaper relation, empathy, the idea that you can feel the feelings of the other, and sometimes one simply can't.

Like I said, I don't dismiss the creators feelings or experience, I simply don't believe it reaches the level of art, that such a simple and clearly explained position is meeting with such angst here is a sad commentary on the ability of posters here to relate to and accept the views of others that don't align with the view they've already formed.

Not believing it's art, fine. I can align with that. The creators used a game which can be a more powerful medium than a set of picture or a book.

As to surmising the game as the authors vanity? That's where your votes came from and I put a fair guess it's a little stronger than angst. Your problem is not speaking out your views, it's that you spoke a little too much.

No, the actual problem is that people seek to punish people for having a view that doesn't align with their own. I even overlooked your casual accusation of psychopathy. My postings have been quite cordial and if noting the game is a work of vanity from the author gets you upset then I feel bad for you, you're really taking it personally for us just discussing the artistic merits of a game you didn't create.

 

[TenaciousB]

Articles like this are a good reminder to get your...uh..."stuff" together. Wills, advance directives, etc.

 

[Fatesrider]

I worked in what was said to be the busiest trauma ER in the military at the time. We saw everything from infected hangnails to a kid who was too close to a hand grenade (set off by his friend, who didn't survive). I have literally scraped what remains of people up off of the streets, and been adorned by the vomitus of people with bleeding ulcers. I've probably seen several hundred people die. And I've probably seen thousands of stunned, incredulous survivors deal with the shock and grief.

While I can't say that I see this offering as a "game", since it seems to be more of a narrative than something one plays, it highlights one important fact: We die.

Making adequate preparations for that is something we fail to do.

Back in the day, death was much, much closer. Most people died at home. Bodies of loved ones were displayed. Photographs were taken of the dead with the living for posterity. It was no less traumatic, there was no less grieving, but it was a much more accepted way of living with our mortality to recognize it and, if not embrace it, at least rationally acknowledge it.

Today, as is apparent by the description of the game, death is locked up in places we go when we're sick. Most people today die in hospitals, surrounded by technology. It's been institutionalized, handled in an institutional fashion, rubber-stamped, bagged and tagged, kept separate and with an "authorized personnel only" sign stuck on the emotional doors. And our powers over life and death extend to our attitudes - to preserve life at all costs.

That, to me, is the worst thing possible.

We've made progress to the point we can keep a body breathing and a heart beating, but often times, I wouldn't call that "living". The Terry Schaivo's of the world who SHOULD have died when trauma struck. Life isn't about existence. Life is about living.

And that's why this game is an important lesson. In dying, others learn the importance of living. When we don't see death, we often take life for granted. One doesn't have to embrace death to embrace life, but at the same time, IMHO, one doesn't truly appreciate life until death has touched it and left its mark upon us.

If this game does that for people, touches their lives with the reality of death, it may be that their perspectives will begin to alter to take life less for granted and appreciate it for the short time we have it.

It's not a game most people would WANT to play. But it's one most people would likely benefit from by playing it.

 

[MCYL]

mikesmith[/url]":z43twvgg]
No, the actual problem is that people seek to punish people for having a view that doesn't align with their own. I even overlooked your casual accusation of psychopathy. My postings have been quite cordial and if noting the game is a work of vanity from the author gets you upset then I feel bad for you, you're really taking it personally for us just discussing the artistic merits of a game you didn't create.

No one's punishing you, down votes happen when one does not like what you say. It's an opinion upon your opinion and growing by the minute.

And no psychopathy wouldn't fit. A psychopath most probably wouldn't comment here much less respond to bulk downvotes.

As to artistic merits...I do agree with you that this didn't appear to be art to me. Nevertheless I still didn't like what you said.

But no need to get upset about it, you said your piece, we just didn't like it, happens to all of us.

 

[Momo24]

This article resonated a lot with me.
A few times I have made off-hand jokes about my death with people and the kind of fear they show made me realize that not everyone likes to think about death.
I think I never realized this because, growing up in Eastern tradition means keeping in mind proverbs like
"Death is the only truth of life" "Everything born will wither and die with time" yada yada etc.
I know as a kid, the taught of loosing my parents would make me cry.
But by the time I was 14, my parents would discuss with us their final wishes, their will, what to do with their belongings etc.

 

[Shavano]

MCYL[/url]":3h27h9vw]

Not believing it's art, fine. I can align with that. The creators used a game which can be a more powerful medium than a set of picture or a book.

As to surmising the game as the authors vanity? That's where your votes came from and I put a fair guess it's a little stronger than angst. Your problem is not speaking out your views, it's that you spoke a little too much.

Whether it's art is not seriously in question. Some art is simply about expressing its creator's emotion and experience, whether or not anyone else appreciates it.

It's possible some people will find it useful in some way, but it's also possible that other people will experience it only as painful and unwelcome. I've long since learned that trying too hard to empathize with others' pain only brings me pain myself, so I'd rather not. I will not willingly share the pain of someone I don't know. There's enough pain in people I do know and that I will inevitably experience for myself.

To me, it doesn't matter whether you sympathize or understand the feelings of someone who is suffering. It matters if you help reduce their suffering, or prevent it.

 

[MCYL]

^ Hahaha I didn't write that!!

 

[Daros]

Buran[/url]":lmrhtxmu]

SplatMan_DK[/url]":lmrhtxmu]I used to be fascinated by games such as these - games or art that have meaning, purpose, expression, emotions.

Now I am a father of 4 kids, and I can't stand the thought of one of them dying - let alone wither away slowly. I have enormous respect for what Amy and Ryan Green did, and I purchased the game to support this piece of art. I don't think i will ever play the game though. I haven't even found the courage to download it yet. Maybe I should have just mailed a check instead of buying the game.

Perhaps I will get the courage when my kids are older. A lot older... :-/

I cannot even read the article without skimming past the illustrating picture... and I have to admit I still haven't really read it or the original review. It's just too hard.

My daughter was a 23-week preemie and we were scared of losing her (and still are, sometimes). I could not read apocalypse/zombie novels for a long time, even though I love them, because I knew that if the hospital ever was overrun or lost power, the life support equipment would fail and she and the other babies in the NICU would die. I am slowly regaining the ability to read my favourite genres again, but I tend to click away to a different book if one starts getting into too much danger to young characters. Reminding myself that the books are fiction rarely helps.

While other moms rejoice when their baby sleeps through the night, we worry that she's quit breathing. We have an Owlet pulse ox monitor that we use at night which helps us with this, at least.

I suspect that I have a mild form of PTSD as a result of it all, but she's such a cute baby and is doing incredibly well. It's been worth it, despite all the problems.

Our daughter was born only four weeks early, but with a congenital heart defect. She required open heart surgery two days after birth. So, yeah, I'm right there with you on some forms of media just not being in the cards for me. Articles about this game have me skimming them because reading any further just makes me tear up. The podcast that Munden linked above made me start bawling about halfway through.

I'm a big baby. This game is impressive, and I respect the creators immensely. But I doubt I'll ever be able to play it.

 

[Orca]

mikesmith[/url]":27rdxn2b]Like I said, I don't dismiss the creators feelings or experience, I simply don't believe it reaches the level of art, that such a simple and clearly explained position is meeting with such angst here is a sad commentary on the ability of posters here to relate to and accept the views of others that don't align with the view they've already formed.

(disclaimer, I have not played the game yet, and given the subject matter, I'm not sure I'm ready to. I lost a family member to cancer 6 months ago and that wound is still raw)

Art is the conversation between the artist and the culture in which they are embedded. Nothing more, nothing less. Any more constricting definition leaves out important works that are unquestionably art.

A computer game I define as a programmed interactive simulation using text or video.

This game happens to be the medium which the Greens used to hold that conversation, to talk about cancer, end of life care, and to share the experience of losing a loved one.

I said that art is the conversation between the artist and the culture in which they are embedded, but I find the art that I enjoy is that which transmits an experience to the audience. A particularly powerful painting that evokes the experience of being at a bullfight--the bloodlust, the pain, the athleticism. A song that transmits the experience of leaving someone and still longing for them. Or, in this case, a game that evokes the emotional experience of losing your child to cancer.

Maybe the minigames don't work. Maybe the emotional loading is trite and obvious.

Maybe you haven't had the life experience to find this moving, and because the minigames don't work and the emotional loading is trite and obvious, you can't immerse yourself enough into the game.

All of that's fine. It doesn't mean it's not important, and that it's not a game.

Part of why gaming doesn't get taken seriously as an art is that much of gaming is still at the stage of Arrival of a Train at La Ciotat. What isn't, has reached an age of mythological heroes. We're still fumbling our way past that, to tell more complicated and human stories, to share experience beyond that of no-scope head-shotting a guy.

Maybe you didn't like this game. That's fine.

Citizen Kane is a renowned movie with groundbreaking techniques, and it doesn't do anything for me. I appreciate what it did, but it doesn't move me. It's still an important part of film history. And that's okay.

 

[MCYL]

mikesmith[/url]":1v3xu0d3]

MCYL[/url]":1v3xu0d3]

mikesmith[/url]":1v3xu0d3]
No, the actual problem is that people seek to punish people for having a view that doesn't align with their own. I even overlooked your casual accusation of psychopathy. My postings have been quite cordial and if noting the game is a work of vanity from the author gets you upset then I feel bad for you, you're really taking it personally for us just discussing the artistic merits of a game you didn't create.

No one's punishing you, down votes happen when one does not like what you say. It's an opinion upon your opinion and growing by the minute.

And no psychopathy wouldn't fit. A psychopath most probably wouldn't comment here much less respond to bulk downvotes.

As to artistic merits...I do agree with you that this didn't appear to be art to me. Nevertheless I still didn't like what you said.

But no need to get upset about it, you said your piece, we just didn't like it, happens to all of us.

Right, the only punishment available here is an attempt to silence those in disagreement. The actuation only of available actions doesn't actually disprove my assertion.

As for being upset, worry not, I come here for discussion, not to make myself upset. Were I, I'd have already ceased my end of the discourse.

+0/-xx is far from silence, if anything it make ppl click and have a closer read. And no it doesn't disprove a thing, just gauges readers response to your assertion

 

[mikesmith]

MCYL[/url]":evgu74kl]

mikesmith[/url]":evgu74kl]

MCYL[/url]":evgu74kl]

mikesmith[/url]":evgu74kl]
No, the actual problem is that people seek to punish people for having a view that doesn't align with their own. I even overlooked your casual accusation of psychopathy. My postings have been quite cordial and if noting the game is a work of vanity from the author gets you upset then I feel bad for you, you're really taking it personally for us just discussing the artistic merits of a game you didn't create.

No one's punishing you, down votes happen when one does not like what you say. It's an opinion upon your opinion and growing by the minute.

And no psychopathy wouldn't fit. A psychopath most probably wouldn't comment here much less respond to bulk downvotes.

As to artistic merits...I do agree with you that this didn't appear to be art to me. Nevertheless I still didn't like what you said.

But no need to get upset about it, you said your piece, we just didn't like it, happens to all of us.

Right, the only punishment available here is an attempt to silence those in disagreement. The actuation only of available actions doesn't actually disprove my assertion.

As for being upset, worry not, I come here for discussion, not to make myself upset. Were I, I'd have already ceased my end of the discourse.

+0/-xx is far from silence, if anything it make ppl click and have a closer read. And no it doesn't disprove a thing, just gauges readers response to your assertion

Hidden comments don't appear for those not logged in or using forum view, in case you didn't know. They essentially cease to exist for those just casually viewing. All that said I don't care if my posts get voted down, if I did then I'd probably post less or try to play to the crowd, but what would be the point of that?

 

[jenny_linsky]

Munden[/url]":b3omo1kw]For even more insight into the story, check out the podcast The Cathedral from Gimlet Media.

I second the recommendation of this podcast. I am neither a religious person--the Greens are, and their faith is discussed a good deal in the podcast--nor a parent, but I found the story incredibly moving. (Perhaps listening to the podcast while out for a run wasn't the best choice, since I ended up choking back tears a few times.)

 

[grommit!]

mikesmith[/url]":3r1l0lfb]

MCYL[/url]":3r1l0lfb]

mikesmith[/url]":3r1l0lfb]

MCYL[/url]":3r1l0lfb]

mikesmith[/url]":3r1l0lfb]
No, the actual problem is that people seek to punish people for having a view that doesn't align with their own. I even overlooked your casual accusation of psychopathy. My postings have been quite cordial and if noting the game is a work of vanity from the author gets you upset then I feel bad for you, you're really taking it personally for us just discussing the artistic merits of a game you didn't create.

No one's punishing you, down votes happen when one does not like what you say. It's an opinion upon your opinion and growing by the minute.

And no psychopathy wouldn't fit. A psychopath most probably wouldn't comment here much less respond to bulk downvotes.

As to artistic merits...I do agree with you that this didn't appear to be art to me. Nevertheless I still didn't like what you said.

But no need to get upset about it, you said your piece, we just didn't like it, happens to all of us.

Right, the only punishment available here is an attempt to silence those in disagreement. The actuation only of available actions doesn't actually disprove my assertion.

As for being upset, worry not, I come here for discussion, not to make myself upset. Were I, I'd have already ceased my end of the discourse.

+0/-xx is far from silence, if anything it make ppl click and have a closer read. And no it doesn't disprove a thing, just gauges readers response to your assertion

Hidden comments don't appear for those not logged in or using forum view, in case you didn't know. They essentially cease to exist for those just casually viewing. All that said I don't care if my posts get voted down, if I did then I'd probably post less or try to play to the crowd, but what would be the point of that?

And yet you're complaining about being "silenced" due to the downvotes. No hypocrisy there.

Seems to me that you're simply being downvoted for being obnoxious to others in the comments, and rude about the creators work.

 

[unoriginal]

I have just read with astonishment how engagement with a highly personal experience of cancer and death is less important than engagement with one person's opinion of whether something is art.

 

[OrangeCream]

mikesmith[/url]":gwfzp2yk]

MCYL[/url]":gwfzp2yk]

mikesmith[/url]":gwfzp2yk]
No, the actual problem is that people seek to punish people for having a view that doesn't align with their own. I even overlooked your casual accusation of psychopathy. My postings have been quite cordial and if noting the game is a work of vanity from the author gets you upset then I feel bad for you, you're really taking it personally for us just discussing the artistic merits of a game you didn't create.

No one's punishing you, down votes happen when one does not like what you say. It's an opinion upon your opinion and growing by the minute.

And no psychopathy wouldn't fit. A psychopath most probably wouldn't comment here much less respond to bulk downvotes.

As to artistic merits...I do agree with you that this didn't appear to be art to me. Nevertheless I still didn't like what you said.

But no need to get upset about it, you said your piece, we just didn't like it, happens to all of us.

Right, the only punishment available here is an attempt to silence those in disagreement. The actuation only of available actions doesn't actually disprove my assertion.

As for being upset, worry not, I come here for discussion, not to make myself upset. Were I, I'd have already ceased my end of the discourse.

Most of us are too hurt by the subject matter at hand to care for your conversation. To some it feels inappropriate when we are talking about death, loss, pain, and grief for you to bring up meta textual conversations.

 

[Brainling]

mikesmith[/url]":dos1kjdq]
Salty, project much?

Ahhh and here it is. For all your flowery academic language, the truth finally comes out five posts later. You're an insignificant little man who's upset someone doesn't agree with your ridiculous conclusions about someone else's work. Boohoo the internet doesn't agree with me, let me post some more and complain about how the internet disagrees with me and is trying to silence me. You're the type of person we chew up and spit out in logic and debate courses. Which, ironically, is what's happening right now. Your hubris won't allow you to see it, but you're being made a fool of with every post.

Part of me wants to tell you to stop, but I'm finding some morbid entertainment in watching you get eviscerated by smarter people than yourself.

 

[YoTeach]

Munden[/url]":39x0qlbk]For even more insight into the story, check out the podcast The Cathedral from Gimlet Media.

Came here to post this link (though, I have to admit it was Radiolab where I heard it. They correctly credit Gimlet in the article and in the audio). Listening made me pull over in my car and cry by the side of the road. Having navigated my own daughter's cancer (she is healthy and cancer-free now) I can commiserate with having a young toddler dealing with chemo and radiation. However, I can only imagine the depths of despair when the battle is over and you have to say goodbye to your child.