No F-150 in France? US automakers complain the EU blocks big trucks.

European buyers aren't interested in full-size trucks; US car industry doesn't care.

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[Juvba Fnakix]

I'd certainly agree that a lot of older cities and town centers are going to be extremely tight, but at the same time, heavy commercial trucks are larger than all these USA-ian pickups, and they do manage to get around to most places collecting trash, delivering building supplies, carrying dirt, etc.

The road to my home has a 2m width restriction enforced by concrete. The Ram Pickup would lose the side trim, mirrors and hub caps. The refuse collectors changed to a narrower vehicle when the restriction was put in place.

 

[Bob Dobilina]

My neighbor had a Tacoma and then he and his wife bought a travel trailer. He said he needed to upgrade to haul it. His Tacoma had a tow capacity of 6500 lbs, and his travel trailer weighted 3000 lbs. He got a Ram 2500 instead. Because he needed it.

Same with my old college roommate. He “needed” a bigger camper since his kids were getting bigger so he took out a 7-year note on a F-250. His last kid graduates HS in a couple months. Nothing like a car mortgage to pull your camper for a week every year.

 

[Dr Gitlin]

The safety standards are half the problem.

US crash testing--assumes a hit with (basically) a standardized comparable or larger object. There's no crash-compatibility of what happens when an overlarge SUV impacts smaller vehicle. Or a high-ground-clearance vehicle impacts a low-to-the ground one. And therefore there's no regulatory worry about the asymmetric size warfare on the streets

The result is what we have increasingly gigantic vehicles because everyone is worried about getting run over by someone who cannot see out their truck because the near-field sight lines are too poor.

And it’s even worse--because we are all legally required to have auto insurance--to pay for the damages we cause by our collective carelessness. And as vehicles get larger those consequences become more severe and expensive. SUVs crashing into buildings and doing structural damage is so common--it doesn't make the news anymore. But we are all collectively paying for it with higher insurance premiums--because risk pools is how insurance works.

sorry, how do you think EuroNCAP crash-tests cars?

https://www.euroncap.com/protocols/

It also drives them into a crash structure.

 

[Anonymous Chicken]

The road to my home has a 2m width restriction enforced by concrete. The Ram Pickup would lose the side trim, mirrors and hub caps. The refuse collectors changed to a narrower vehicle when the restriction was put in place.

Hmm, some larger cars would struggle with that too. But yeah, I'm not saying roads are huge. I had some really interesting experiences on tree-lined lanes in England, let me tell you.

 

[Me Myself And I1]

Hold the line, Europe — America is clogged with massive trucks driven by small men.

There's a guy living in the adjacent tower block in my neighborhood in Czechia. He drives a Ford Ranger - https://www.ford.cz/dodavky-pick-upy/ranger - with jacked up suspension, oversized heavy-duty all terrain tires sticking to the sides, the lot.

The car is ridiculously oversized, sticks out of the parking box, you can't open the door on a car parked next to it. The fact that the owner can't park doesn't help.

Oh... and he's like 165 cm tall (that's 5'5")

In 5-6 years I never saw a speckle of mud on the car, never saw the guy loading tools or gear, or tow a trailer.

 

[Pitabred]

I can't tell you how many small minded people here buy absolutely obnoxious large trucks that have never been used for a day of work. We need more regulation here in the US regarding the size of our vehicles. The last thing EU should do is follow our example.

Hell, I'd just love for a higher-level license to be required for any half-ton or larger vehicles. Trucks, SUVs, all of those... too many people that can't maintain their lane, hit curbs, don't follow at appropriate distances, speed excessively, etc.

I say this as someone with a truck that I use for hauling a trailer a couple times a year, I'd be more than happy to meet those requirements.

 

[4mula1]

I know fullsize truck owners who use the bed for nothing but mountain bikes, mulch, and paddleboards.

Most mountain bikes I see are on a hitch rack because:

A) The bed is too short to fit the bike and close the tailgate
B) The bed is too high
C) There's a cover over the bed making the bed pretty much useless, especially the hard covers

 

[LDA 6502]

I once filled a 2000 Hyundai Elantra with enough bagged sand and concrete mix to nearly bottom out its suspension. I also moved couches and towed a boat with that thing. The car didn't care and lasted to 400,000 km before dying of fuel system problems.

I used to tow a rented 183 x 365 cm (6 x 12 ft) utility trailer behind my Nissan Rogue, which was 182 x 464 cm (5.9 x 15.2 ft). No, the CVT didn't explode on me. Yes, I used to get some incredulous looks from other drivers, especially ones in big pickup trucks. Those trailers were cheap to rent (~$25/day) and you could abuse them without care.

 

[FluffyFreak]

I'd prefer to have the trade war and tariffs than let a single one of those "trucks" into the UK, sadly there are some already here.

Most of us despise them, and would prefer that they were completely illegal here. If the USA had any sense they'd be illegal in the US too.

The smaller pickups like the older Toyota Hilux are a little more acceptable, but monsters like the RAM etc, nah, we'll keep the trade war thanks

 

[Anonymous Chicken]

Around here, some large Fords are used by the bomb response squad, and a I swear I saw a brand-new ambulance conversion of a half-ton GM truck driving the other way on the divided highway (freeway?) in Sweden.

Quoting myself, Sweden really does operate some Chevy pickup ambulances now. Hah!


View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rkJeW7ZPmtU


View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CiS3Jdk9vhI

 

[ReadandShare]

Hold the line, Europe — America is clogged with massive trucks driven by small men.

American men are not small. Indeed, most are overweight and many are outright obese! Perhaps it's just one particular body part you were referring to?

 

[TheOldChevy]

Given that the current US administration's recent actions have hugely increased the cost of gasoline and diesel, is this really a good time to try and force the rest of the world to buy massive, gas-guzzling American SUVs?

Not least since it's likely to be months if not years before oil prices settle back down.

The main problem of these "things" is not gas, it is size. Electric monster trucks are no better than the gas ones.

 

[Embattle]

They are over sized, fuel munching pedestrian killing machines, we really don't need something like that over here and the back door should of been closed years ago.

 

[Hap]

Give me a M1A2 Abrams that I can park at Morrisons in Whitby or give me death.

As an American who has worked in the defense industry for over 3 decades. The newer British Challengers and late model (2A5+) Leopards are better tanks.

 

[Snark218]

The principle here is just "your right to swing your fist ends at my face." Oversized pickups are a direct problem because they are actually dangerous to everyone else; it isn't just a matter of taste. Oversized SUVs also have a lot of bad effects on people who don't drive them, but they aren't direct threats in the same way.

I would argue there's little difference between a Tahoe, Suburban, or Excursion and the pickups they're based on. The very largest crossovers aren't a great deal better, but the added risk to pedestrians and other cars really kicks in with the fullsize category.

My neighbor had a Tacoma and then he and his wife bought a travel trailer. He said he needed to upgrade to haul it. His Tacoma had a tow capacity of 6500 lbs, and his travel trailer weighted 3000 lbs. He got a Ram 2500 instead. Because he needed it.

Yes! I've posted this observation before. It's the Wheel of Truckma. The truck justifies the pop-up justifies the bigger truck justifies the travel trailer justifies the UBER DUTY 2500 justifies the fifth wheel justifies the side by side justifies the toy hauler. It only stops when the bank literally won't loan them the money. Meanwhile they have the same job they always had, live in the same suburb they always did, have the same commute everyone else does, and the same two weeks of PTO they accrue per year. But if they ever had time to be the kind of free, unfettered, self-actualized Big Truck Guy who cruises the wide-open highways in his beautiful Big Truck on the way to camp in Yellowstone, he's ready with the truck and the camper he sold his wife on because she hates camping!

 

[thelongdarkteatimeof]

That's a pretty rich claim given a 60 year-old tariff on "light trucks" known as the "Chicken Tax" pretty much keeps Europe (and Japan, and Korea) from exporting pickups, non-passenger vans, and truck-type SUVs to the United States.

This is one of the big reasons that you can't buy a Toyota Hilux in the U.S.

Even Ford had to import the Transit made in Europe, with fake seats that were removed and destroyed after the vehicle landed in the US, to avoid the Chicken Tax.

 

[ReadandShare]

I hope for the day when the entire rest of the world will levy extra environmental taxes on gas vehicles and especially gas-guzzling vehicles!

Capitalism is a great balancer between supply and demand - and between cost and benefit. Factor in appropriately the costs to our environment. Consumers can then make better decisions with their wallets.

 

[thelongdarkteatimeof]

You can only buy what that exists

After Yankee car companies stopped making regular cars because they make more money on large vehicles that have lax safety and fuel economy standards. The game is rigged.

 

[Juvba Fnakix]

Hmm, some larger cars would struggle with that too. But yeah, I'm not saying roads are huge. I had some really interesting experiences on tree-lined lanes in England, let me tell you.

Since the 2m restriction went up most of the vanity 4 wheel drives have stopped using the road which has been "no vehicles except for access" for years. The locals can drive within an inch of the pot holes and pass each other at speed. Shiny 4 wheel drives swing out wide. Perhaps the wheels will fall off if they go through one.

 

[poke 532810]

First vehicle I ever drove was a Chevy LUV (rebadged Isuzu Faster). It was only 160 x 486 cm (63 x 191 in) in size, which isn't much different from my Bolt EUV, which is dwarfed by almost every light truck I see on the road these days. The growth in size, especially height, is just nuts.

In the late 90s, I owned a 1995 4wd F-150 regular cab with a long bed. This was not a small pickup by any measure. I now own a 2010 Honda Ridgeline, a midsize pickup, and it is dwarfed by the current crop of full size pickups. I looked up the dimensions of the two:

F-150: 220” long x 78” wide x 75” high
Ridgeline: 207” long x 78” wide x 70” high

So my midsize 2010 Ridgeline is just a smidge smaller than my full size 1995 F-150.

 

[Kebba]

The last thing Europe needs is turbocharged F150s.

Hell, I'm in Toronto, work as a contractor, ALL my coworkers drive giant ass pickup trucks - and the best part? They refuse to haul goods or fill them to more than 1/10th capacity because they don't want to "abuse the car". Seriously, they refuse to load anything over 220lb.

They bought fully decked out trucks for... ??? I don't know - one coworker paid over 120,000CAD despite spending almost all of his earnings on payments each month. "It'll ruin the suspension or transmission". 220lb is "too fucking much".

I was considering stopping and taking a photo of a rare F-150 today. It honestly made me laugh, like somebody was making a parody. A gigant-ass crew cab F150 towing a trailer smaller than the empty bed, a few europallets on the trailer. As a cherry on top, parked sideways across 5 spaces. I swear I saw him drive away on my second pass. He had a cowboy hat on. Just perfect chefs kiss

These vehicles exist but are rare here (Stockholm). The roads around here are not as cramped as say Italy, but still generally small by American standards. The real trouble is the very expensive gas, and that you need special licenses for vehicles (trailer and load included) over 3.5 tons. When you see one, it is a 50% chance it is driven by a dude with shades, a cap and goatee.

I hope EU holds firm. We absolutely do not want to import Americas terrible pedestrian safety statistics

 

[kalizec]

Europeans do not want these garbage trucks. The only reasons US manufacturers went this route is because of the lobbied exemption for efficiency for trucks.

These pickups are needlessly large and heavy, and if you allow them on your roads you will all other cars to also become heavier just to be safe in a collision with these pedestrian death machines.

Most European politicians know and understand this, and the EU isn't so corrupt to allow the US to negotiate an exemption for US pickups, it's political suicide.

 

[ReadandShare]

Oh? How does that philosophy work with regard to trade in fentanyl? Non-tariff trade barriers clearly have a role in the trade of not only dangerous substances but also dangerous vehicles.

People talk about trade principles in general and you cite a highly-controlled substance that's often traded illegally. Non sequitur much?

 

[Snark218]

Quoting myself, Sweden really does operate some Chevy pickup ambulances now. Hah!


View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rkJeW7ZPmtU


View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CiS3Jdk9vhI

I feel like that's actually pretty defensible, in a place where 4WD might be required.

 

[Snark218]

In the late 90s, I owned a 1995 4wd F-150 regular cab with a long bed. This was not a small pickup by any measure. I now own a 2010 Honda Ridgeline, a midsize pickup, and it is dwarfed by the current crop of full size pickups. I looked up the dimensions of the two:

F-150: 220” long x 78” wide x 75” high
Ridgeline: 207” long x 78” wide x 70” high

So my midsize 2010 Ridgeline is just a smidge smaller than my full size 1995 F-150.

It is wild how much Truck Guys hate the Ridgeline. They just loathe it, because they know that's all the truck they actually need and they cannot stand being reminded of it. In comment threads on car sites, they react like it's personally calling bullshit on them, which it implicitly sort of is, I guess.

 

[sbuso]

So that means that European car makers could bring matrix LED lights and rear-view cameras instead of mirrors to the US?

 

[thelongdarkteatimeof]

Hell, I'd just love for a higher-level license to be required for any half-ton or larger vehicles. Trucks, SUVs, all of those... too many people that can't maintain their lane, hit curbs, don't follow at appropriate distances, speed excessively, etc.

I say this as someone with a truck that I use for hauling a trailer a couple times a year, I'd be more than happy to meet those requirements.

Having been tailgated by a dump truck on more than one occassion, I don't think the licensing will make much difference. They need to ban these overly large vehicles.

The easiest way would be to make them subject to the same crash test, fuel economy, weight restriction, and pedestrian-safety as cars.

 

[thelongdarkteatimeof]

It is wild how much Truck Guys hate the Ridgeline. They just loathe it, because they know that's all the truck they actually need and they cannot stand being reminded of it. In comment threads on car sites, they react like it's personally calling bullshit on them, which it implicitly sort of is, I guess.

An Chevy S-10 is more that what most truck buyers really need.

They need to stop pretending that it's about utility, it's a Vanity Truck, and you know it.

It's the Minivan of this decade.

 

[jezra]

Heck, I'm an American and what surprises me is the lack of alternatives to these monsters. I own a first-generation Tacoma, and it's common for people to tell me: "Man, I wish they still made these small trucks!"

You are not alone. My first gen tacoma (v6 extended cab) is going to need to be replaced in the next year or 2, and it simply isn't possible to find a decent replacement coupe-ute. The only potential alternative is the vaporous Slate. :/

 

[archtop]

The last thing Europe needs is turbocharged F150s.

Hell, I'm in Toronto, work as a contractor, ALL my coworkers drive giant ass pickup trucks - and the best part? They refuse to haul goods or fill them to more than 1/10th capacity because they don't want to "abuse the car". Seriously, they refuse to load anything over 220lb.

They bought fully decked out trucks for... ??? [some unknown purpose, it sure aint hauling goods] I don't know. - one coworker paid over 120,000CAD despite spending almost all of his earnings on payments each month. "It'll ruin the suspension or transmission". 220lb is "too fucking much".

Ha -- I've regularly hauled 500 lb. or more in the back of my Prius.

 

[jezra]

Isn't the fact that obnoxious large trucks exist solely because of tax loopholes in the first place?

Tax law is written by corporate sponsored politicians. Those aren't "loopholes", they are 'corporate entitlements'.

 

[Snark218]

That's a pretty rich claim given a 60 year-old tariff on "light trucks" known as the "Chicken Tax" pretty much keeps Europe (and Japan, and Korea) from exporting pickups, non-passenger vans, and truck-type SUVs to the United States.

It would be hilarious if this is how the Chicken Tax falls. And the Monkey's Paw curls!

This is one of the big reasons that you can't buy a Toyota Hilux in the U.S.

I spent a week and a half in a literally brand-new Hilux last year, in a location that counts as natural habitat for those things, namely Greenland. It was the most basic imaginable spec; I think the one built for industrial use in South Africa. Manual, naturally aspirated diesel, power nothing, no infotainment - @huskcummerbund would nut. It rode like a Power Wheels car on a rough road and the local musk oxen out-accelerated it, but I'm not gonna lie, I had fun in it. It'd break my tailbone going over a pothole back home, though.

 

[chateauarusi]

A huge number of EU roads were never built with the size of big trucks and SUVs in mind; since when have these vehicles ever been a great purchase choice there to begin with?

Also, even before the new Iranian "special military operation", gasoline per-litre in the UK/EU is nuts from what I understand and it's just going to get worse.

I live in Europe. I'll echo what everyone else is saying on the two points above. My family's daily driver is a Yaris hybrid; gas runs us the equivalent of eight dollars a gallon. And that's in Luxembourg, where petrol is notoriously cheaper than in our neighbors, which easily top ten per gal.

Re the size question: We happen to be in Spain on holiday at the moment, doing a road trip along the eastern coast. The rental agency gave us a VW Caddy PHEV, which is smaller than a typical American minivan, but which feels enormous on these streets. We did okay in the smaller beach-resort towns, because the hotels are typically on the outskirts and have their own lots or garages.

But we just got to Barcelona, and whoo boy. The hotel has a garage, but the staff took one look at our car and said "no way." We have to park on the street, which is no picnic in this busy town.

I can't imagine trying to navigate traffic in an American-style Canyonero. The US car companies are delusional.

 

[dEvErGEN]

That’s pretty effin rich… the US truck-makers would have ALL failed without the Chicken Tax - and still deserve to fail.

 

[Anonymous Chicken]

I feel like that's actually pretty defensible, in a place where 4WD might be required.

You can actually get AWD versions of Sprinter and I'm pretty sure also the VW competitor (forget the name). From what I've read, the problem with those is more that they have just got no balls, and they are loaded up with equipment. (Also, they are quite tall and have small tires. Maybe not the best running around in the winter.) They've also converted some VW Amaroks to ambulances previously.

 

[Arstotzka]

The last thing Europe needs is turbocharged F150s.

Hell, I'm in Toronto, work as a contractor, ALL my coworkers drive giant ass pickup trucks - and the best part? They refuse to haul goods or fill them to more than 1/10th capacity because they don't want to "abuse the car". Seriously, they refuse to load anything over 220lb.

They bought fully decked out trucks for... ??? [some unknown purpose, it sure aint hauling goods] I don't know. - one coworker paid over 120,000CAD despite spending almost all of his earnings on payments each month. "It'll ruin the suspension or transmission". 220lb is "too fucking much".

I haul heavier loads from hardware stores in my minivan. Full sheets of plywood, too.

 

[Navalia Vigilate]

Give me a M1A2 Abrams that I can park at Morrisons in Whitby or give me death.

Sir will be requiring the M1A2 SEPV3 for the full 73.6 short tons (66.8 t) version. Or perhaps sir would like to consider a restored T28 Super-heavy tank at 95 short tons (86 t)? This is sure to impress the villagers and rid the cul-de-sac of annoying children.

 

[Snark218]

I live in Europe. I'll echo what everyone else is saying on the two points above. My family's daily driver is a Yaris hybrid; gas runs us the equivalent of eight dollars a gallon. And that's in Luxembourg, where petrol is notoriously cheaper than in our neighbors, which easily top ten per gal.

Re the size question: We happen to be in Spain on holiday at the moment, doing a road trip along the eastern coast. The rental agency gave us a VW Caddy PHEV, which is smaller than a typical American minivan, but which feels enormous on these streets. We did okay in the smaller beach-resort towns, because the hotels are typically on the outskirts and have their own lots or garages.

But we just got to Barcelona, and whoo boy. The hotel has a garage, but the staff took one look at our car and said "no way." We have to park on the street, which is no picnic in this busy town.

I can't imagine trying to navigate traffic in an American-style Canyonero. The US car companies are delusional.

My wife's family lives in Spain, a bit outside Madrid, and a Caddy would be fine in their area - they drive a Seat Arona, which is B-segment, but you see plenty of C-segment crossovers around except in the old core of the city. Madrid has a lot of that big, grand fascist urban planning, though, and was less constrained in its expansion. Speaking of Barcelona, the Eixample neighborhood, for example (ayoooo) was actually designed around cars, with angled corners so a '20s car could take them without slowing down so much they'd stall and big wide streets by Euro standards, but you're SOL in the old town. In my experience, this is the case with a lot of Euro cities - the part where the street plan was laid down by Romans or Goths sucks to drive anything in, but the suburban ring that got built in the '70s up to now is basically designed around people driving Golfs.

 

[lurknomore]

In contrast, full-size truck buyers are disproportionately likely to be fucking maniacs. Their loyalty to their preferred brand is pegged at "Heaven's Gate Cultist," they will go into financial ruin to keep driving their preferred model, they will pay anything at the pump, and they have a frankly pathological amount of self-image and aspiration invested in being a Big Truck Guy, so they are cash cows on a level that is almost unimaginable. They will buy the biggest, most aggressive truck in the best equipped possible trim level they can convince a bank they're good for the payments on.

s/truck/Harley/g or s/truck/McMansion/g
Yup, checks out.
It's almost as if there was a whole industry dedicated to making Americans think they need more...