New research shows gas stove emissions contribute to 19,000 deaths annually

California is considering a law that would require warning labels on gas stoves.

See full article...

 

[numerobis]

Next time I redo my kitchen, it will definitely be with a big induction stove built in. They are just so good.

Just, not the LG. They turn the fan on blast, no matter what, for some reason.

 

[mygeek911]

My asthma kicked into high gear whenever I was around a gas stove. I loved cooking with them, but I like breathing more.

 

[Commander_Keen]

My asthma actually started getting a lot worse when living at a location that had an old commercial stove/often with a griddle. I cooked with it. We thought it was tree pollen...

 

[ElCameron]

Venting has been recommended for a long time, there is no requirement if they are still building them without ventilation.

Even if ventilation is installed it still needs to be controlled manually in most cases.

Sorry but this is incorrect. Venting is required for gas piping systems and gas fueled appliances. There are common exceptions for 1 and 2 family dwellings less than 35’ in height (typically type V construction). I wish it wasn’t the case, but blame republican suburban voters.

For about the 500,000 homes built last year use of gas required venting. (Typically 3+ units, which include townhomes).

 

[foboz1]

Do you know how many emitters per “burner” there are? I tried a single-burner portable induction cooktop from a reputable company (not a cheap Amazon special) and it absolutely failed to work with my cast iron skillets. My warranty claim was denied as I was told the burner only had three magnetic emitters, and it was expected to only create three hot spots in my skillet.

Ended up being useless for making quesadillas because the cooktop would make three parts of the skillet so hot it burned the tortilla, the rest would be raw, and then the unit went into a thermal overload safety shutdown for a few minutes.

My frustration ended up being mostly that it was impossible to tell if the unit was defective or not, as it was all software controlled with no way to understand why my cooking was being ruined until multiple conversations with customer service convinced me the unit was only acceptable for boiling water.

I’d like it try an induction cooktop, but I’m not going to drop $6000 on something with no promises it will work or not, and no showrooms have them actually connected to test.

Single-burner portables are just not going to do the trick. As others have mentioned, induction cooktops are not exactly new technology, and they do work "as advertised". In my home, we just switched from a resistive electric cooktop to induction and the experience is night and day. Things heat up quickly and evenly, and while temperature control may not be quite as precise as with gas, it's more than good enough - basically all of the benefits of cooking with gas, just without the gas.

 

[numerobis]

This sounds weird. You could buy an induction cooktop for around $500, and of course they work, they have been mainstream for 20 years.

You can get them much cheaper than $6k but not as cheap as $500 anywhere I’m seeing. It’s more like $1k Canadian, so 750 USD, for the cooktop. A couple hundred more for the range.

 

[bongbong]

A lot of condo type apartment dwellers should uses induction stoves just to be safe. In my country most kitchens in lower middle class upwards have the kitchen surrounded by windows and a door opening out to the laundry area. Since it's a hot, tropical country, all these windows and the door is open or has a screen door, to allow the heat to go out. This also brings in proper air circulation with the outside. Electric and even gas rates have gone up so some have resorted to used motor oil stoves, which require outdoor use for safety

 

[poltroon]

Can you get adjustable grips for household stoves like boats & campers sometimes have? I assume someone makes them since they're just as convenient for accessibility reasons as they are for making eggs during nor'easters.

Pic for visual reference; sorry in advance for semi-potato quality. Note that the grips are on a rail independent of the stove surface

View attachment 81014

This is something I'd never contemplated on a regular land based stove but I can see how it would certainly solve some issues, including making pans more secure for certain occupants. Thank you!

 

[Mad Klingon]

Many have commented about the lack of venting in new homes. One of the reasons are the mandates to improve energy efficiencies in new homes. More ventilation equals less efficiency unless a lot of extra money is spent on ventilation heat exchangers. One thing contractors hate is spending more money on a new house if their return is minimal. So they install the non-vented fans above the stoves and tout its 'energy efficiency'. By the time anyone notices the reason for new allergies is the kitchen, the warranty has expired and the contractor banks the profit.

 

[Bill T.]

It's interesting that California has resorted to a mere warning label. Presumably they noticed that Berkeley's attempt to ban gas piping in new construction was struck down by the ninth circuit(!) thanks to federal laws supporting gas appliances. Washington State's ban will surely fall in the same way. I'd be surprised if the second circuit treated New York's ban any differently.

So, if you're thinking national building code are the answer: Think again. Federal law is already making things worse.

Edit: grammar

 

[mobby_6kl]

You could maybe use some silicone rubber sheet on top with the lower settings, carefuly. Like a baking mat from Ikea. Silicone is usually fine up to 220°C. Caveat emptor, obviously, as you don't really want it decomposing, catching fire or melting into slag on your nice glass ceramic top, and even on induction, the bottom of the pot can get really hot, especially if you don't have much water in it for thermal mass. And it would likely void your warranty if anything happened.

Warning – do not try at home, this video was produced by specially trained professionals, et cetera et cetera ;-)

Now, I'll have to look for some extreme high‑temperature silicone sheet producers, to see if they have something better than the Ikea baking mat, or if it's just dumb...

EDIT: @ninjaneer 's separate pot holder is probably a much better and safer idea, as long as it's non conductive. One could forget the silicone mat is on and put it on high, melting it or worse.

Hmm maybe some sort of asbestos mat instead?

If you are considering a trial induction stove before you get hooked up like me and everybody else, please keep in mind that not all 1‑2‑zone portable induction stoves are created equal. Some of the very cheapest no‑name ones cheap out on power level granularity, using on‑off cycling for some intermediate levels.

But you don't really need a super‑expensive one, just avoid the bad models. Even the cheap Ikea one is allegedly fine, although I haven't tested it myself. It's kinda like with TVs of old – you could buy a shitty TR and be put off LCD TVs forever, or buy a good IPS display for just a few dollars more and be impressed.

Yeah and this is a pain in the ass to figure out. I've been looking for one to run off battery in remote locations (long story) and there's no way to tell if the model will peak at 2000W even if you set it to 800 or whatever, which would impact the specs needed for the battery and inverter etc.

 

[autostop]

Gas stoves have required exterior venting for a long time. Recirculating vents are only allowed with electric cooking. (If your area doesn’t it is far behind in adopting model building codes. Also, this is why we need a national building code.)

But to the point of this article, building codes have already recognized the dangers of gas stoves.

Most houses only meet the codes in place at the time they were constructed, though. There are millions of occupied homes out there that were built 50-75-100 years ago, and their compliance with building codes is grandfathered. Anecdotally, you see a lot more gas ranges in older homes.

Maybe I've missed it but I don't recall seeing yet how well good exterior venting mitigates the problem. 100%? 50%? I mean, even when using our vent (which is always when the stove or oven are running), the smell of the cooking still spreads through the house. And if there are emissions while the stove is off then obviously the fan won't help that at all.

https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/22568807/
https://www.energy.ca.gov/sites/default/files/2021-05/CEC-500-2021-005.pdf
https://www.aivc.org/sites/default/files/lbnl-5545e.pdf

TL;DR, it depends, generally closer to 50% than 100%, but one of the things anyone with a gas cooktop can do for a quick win is to use the rear-most burners, which are generally better covered by the vent hood, rather than the more exposed front-most burners, whenever possible.

 

[poltroon]

This kind of news story is why millions of people like me are starting to ignore "science." Because there is already a political desire to take away our gas stoves, so then they go look for some studies to support it. Just like the grape industry looks for studies to say grapes are heart healthy, or the oat industry fishes up studies to say oats are good for cholesterol.

This is a subtle point to make, because I am not denying that the people doing the study are sincere, and perhaps very knowledgable. But we know the reason this is making waves today is because of politics.

And for all this, gas stoves are awesome. There is nothing wrong with them. Whether people slip in bath tubs doesn't mean we need to stop taking baths. And if some pollutant somewhere hurts someone (which I doubt is a thing) it doesn't undo the good of gas stoves for society.

This is like where a kid comes home all jazzed up about something they learned in school, but they have no life experience. So they tell their parents and the parents have heard it all their whole lives and they know back in the 60's we were supposed to have a "silent spring" and famines. In the 70's we were supposed to be destroyed by acid rain. In the 80's global warming and rising seas. (My parents shore house is still sitting pretty.) In the 90's, 00's, and 10's more of the same. It's all "the boy who cried wolf" to us.

When I share a view like this, people shout troll instead of making a logical reply. So if you go ad hominem and call me names, then it proves you have no logic. If you just say, "Hey lady, I disagree" then I credit you for it. No problem with honest disagreement. Thanks

Yeah, but how do you feel about the political desire to make lots of people use and buy gas stoves because the natural gas industry used it as a marketing hook?

 

[DovePig]

Yeah, but how do you feel about the political desire to make lots of people use and buy gas stoves because the natural gas industry used it as a marketing hook?

Could you at least please spoiler the troll's rant when replying to one? Thanks ;-)

 

[Fenixgoon]

After reading an article on Ars about health impacts from gas cooking (I had a gas line run for a stove), I ended up getting an induction range instead. My sister and her husband also got one when they renovated their kitchen!

 

[neil_w]

https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/22568807/
https://www.energy.ca.gov/sites/default/files/2021-05/CEC-500-2021-005.pdf
https://www.aivc.org/sites/default/files/lbnl-5545e.pdf

TL;DR, it depends, generally closer to 50% than 100%, but one of the things anyone with a gas cooktop can do for a quick win is to use the rear-most burners, which are generally better covered by the vent hood, rather than the more exposed front-most burners, whenever possible.

Thank you. Now if they only put the high-powered burners in the rear instead of the front...

 

[psarhjinian]

We can add this, along with asbestos, lead, fossil-fuel powered cars and such to the list of things that amount to a kind of "poverty tax" in much of the world.

A rich person who owns their own home can just...buy an induction stove, just as they can drive a new EV or just...not live in a place like Flint MI. A poor person who rents, commutes as far as they can stand to balance the cost of living, doesn't really get a choice.

It would be really nice if we could force the wealthy to make do with a little less, instead of forcing the poor to be as sick, tired and/or stressed as possible without inciting a revolt.

 

[Mungus the Unhyphenated]

Inadequate outdoor venting is a huge component of gas stove emissions effects. It was very typical to have a vent to the outside either above the stove or in the wall, pulling air sideways out of the kitchen and stove area. But then in the 1970s with increased energy efficiency demands and insulation requirements, putting a big hole in the house became less desirable and the recirculating vents came into fashion. In general, homes became more sealed-up all through the latter third of the 20th century and into the present. Any emissions from both the stove and from cooking in general are trapped without proper outdoor ventilation, period.

Apartment complexes are even worse; with multiple units and multiple households cooking at any given time, there will be more emissions trapped in the building envelope whether you're cooking in your apartment or not. Ventilation to the outdoors is important.

One note about gas stoves and "emissions while not in use" though -- Modern gas stoves with spark igniters for cooktops and glow or hot-surface igniters for ovens emit nothing when not in operation. All the gas valves are closed; no gas flows. (Unless there's a leak, and that's a whole other safety concern!) The risk of gas emissions with the stove off comes from old stoves with pilot ignition -- a tiny amount of gas burning all the time used to light off the flame when a burner valve is opened. These might still be found in very old homes and apartments; yes they do produce emissions while off and are a bigger air quality problem than originally thought. They need to go. (The same is true for old pilot-ignition gas water heaters and furnaces; although those at least have a flue to the outside.) Pilot-ignition gas appliances should have been completely phased out for health reasons years ago.

 

[Emon]

So, if you're thinking national building code are the answer: Think again. Federal law is already making things worse.

How? You literally didn't say. You're just regurgitating thoughtless republican drivel about how "federal government bad."

 

[Sedreaus]

Gas stoves have required exterior venting for a long time. Recirculating vents are only allowed with electric cooking. (If your area doesn’t it is far behind in adopting model building codes. Also, this is why we need a national building code.)

But to the point of this article, building codes have already recognized the dangers of gas stoves.

I have lived in 5 places with gas stoves and absolutely none of them had exterior venting hoods in the design, one was added at one location, but very poorly (and I do mean fire hazard poorly). Only one of those buildings was built prior to 1990.

 

[Sedreaus]

Somehow I feel like that's more of a health risk than the gas stove...

Why no comparison with electric heating elements?

A push for anything without direct comparisons is most certainly an agenda based push. Those agendas are rarely what the surface statements would claim.

Like Columbo would say: "Follow the money." Who stands to benefit most from this type of legislation? Would this push equal regulatory capture in an industry?

So news outlets reported that oil and gas lobbies have spent close to a half billion dollars lobbying the Biden administration to reduce regulations. So, obviously, for your assertion (and to be fair) you would want to know how much environmental groups have lobbied, but also those groups connections to {checks notes} big induction.

Just...just as an aside, and I don't know the answer to be honest, but what do you think the market is for gas v electric appliances, and in how many instances are the manufacturers exclusively one or the other? Or as Columbo would say, "Just one more thing...."

 

[Rbrian]

Damn that's a way to double or more your yearly bills.

A few things to unpick here. Gas is cheaper than electricity, at least where I live. This is because of government policies - the real price, including externalities, would be much higher for fossil fuels. But electrical appliances are far more efficient, so I don’t use so much. Despite this, it still costs more for the same amount of heat, even if I had to use more gas. So I also installed solar and home storage batteries, and buy electricity cheap at night (7.5p vs 28p per kWh). My annual bills are now lower, though I had to invest heavily first - like so much in life, you need to be rich to live cheaply.

And all of this misses the point - I’m not concerned about the price, but rather the cost. I could burn gas and shorten my life. I could drive a diesel and kill schoolgirls. I choose to put my money where my mouth is.
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-london-55330945

 

[SSteve]

Impulse Labs makes an induction stove that has an integrated battery, it's designed for homes that aren't wired for the high electrical loads of a traditional electric stove.

Looking at their website, it appears they don't actually make one. They've announced one and are taking deposits. It looks really cool, but I don't think I want that much computer built in to my stove. To me it seems highly unlikely that it'll still be working twenty years from now. Not to single them out. I feel the same way about computerized stoves from any maker. Especially smart ones. Wi-Fi on a stove is a deal-breaker for me.

 

[passivesmoking]

This is why California's habit of putting warning labels on literally everything is so annoying.

Now that there's something that might legitimately require a warning label, nobody's going to take it seriously because the tin foil hat brigade are scared of "phone radiation".

It'll be warning labels for warning labels next.

"WARNING: This label contains a warning about a label that contains a warning about a warning that has not been verified by anything remotely resembling a scientific study whatsoever. Users are warned that the warning is a warning about a warning and they heed the warning at their own risk. You have been warned"

 

[kgb999-again]

I'm noticing that they keep saying "indoor levels can exceed established standards for outside air quality."

There are a ton of EPA resources that address air quality in indoor settings as a very separate issue - presumably with indoor standards. I have no idea which standard would be more stringent, but it feels like science has addressed the two contexts with individual specificity.

Why is this legislation referencing an outdoor air standard rather than applying the (seemingly) more correct levels defined for indoor safety?

 

[Sedreaus]

Counterpoint: as someone who heats a variety of materials on the stove ... induction kind of sucks.

Gas imo, sucks more. The amount of waste heat is embarrassing. I hated cooking for long periods on a gas stove in a southern climate with crappy AC. And mind you I do like the smell of burning natural gas, probably incomplete combustion, I grew up with it on mornings with perfectly crispy bacon and pancakes.

Gas stoves, at best (so a high cfm hood) are indoor BBQs that give you some convenience. I guess if you do mostly wok cooking the market still makes it pricey or inconvenient for an electric option, but a lot of cooking on stovetop is affected more by the vessel than the heat source and your skill with that vessel. Iron is the great equalizer imo, but acids aren't great for it (hot acid isn't great for lots of stuff) so steel is my backup.

Sorry running long here, but essentially if you have experience with cooking beyond an occasional fry up, I am vexxed by stating induction is bad. Like, I guess compared to a regular glass electric top you're limited in materials (no standard copper or aluminum pans) but otherwise it's quicker and more responsive than anything else I've used.

 

[nom3ramy]

This kind of news story is why millions of people like me are starting to ignore "science."

This statement implies ignorance of the nature of the scientific method. It is based on measuring results, then identifying possible weak points and areas that should be explored further. Reporting the results of any one study can be a valuable contribution to evolving knowledge. If its methods and procedures are valid and reproducible, it should not be ignored.

After many such studies and cross-checks, certainty about a topic usually can be asymptotically approached. Once a topic has been documented to this extent, we can use the verified results as a basis to reach very solid and valuable responses to real-world problems. One person's speculations about possible motives for attempted deception without evidence is not a viable alternative.

 

[Rbrian]

If they got a heat pump or electric tankless hot water heater (or even a hybrid hot water heater), it's cheaper than using gas even here in the US for the most part....

I looked into a heat pump, but I don’t believe they’re quiet enough. In a back to back mid terrace house, I only have one external wall, and refuse to put a noisy fan near my bedroom window. The ground outside doesn’t belong to me, though I was able to get permission for a cable for my EV charger, but the extra tanks and such required for a ground source heat pump simply wouldn’t fit. 40m2 is about 400sqft - like I said, my house is tiny.

In the UK, gas is about a quarter the price of electricity, so a heat pump with a COP of 4 would break even. It may work out cheaper if piping and radiators need replacing, if only because the new ones are cleaner. I fitted an electric shower, inline electric heater for the bathroom tap, and a Quooker hybrid tap which does both boiling and warm water, so I no longer need a kettle. My plumber disconnected the hot loop, and sometime later this year he’ll remove the old boiler, which is just taking up space in a cupboard.

I have lots of insulation though, so don’t need too much heat, and my far IR panels use less than expected, due to heating solid objects (including me) but not the air. They also allow for microzoning, so I only need to heat the room I’m using. May not be so good if I didn’t live alone.

 

[Aegis2639]

Gas stoves have required exterior venting for a long time. Recirculating vents are only allowed with electric cooking. (If your area doesn’t it is far behind in adopting model building codes. Also, this is why we need a national building code.)

But to the point of this article, building codes have already recognized the dangers of gas stoves.

Externally venting is really not permitted in most existing buildings in NYC.

For us to have done this, and we probably should have in retrospect, was to use a window attachment and leave the window open at the top. It wasn't the worst option given it would be comparable to a portable AC window vent but not everyone has a nearby window to their stove.

 

[Rival Vector Plot]

So news outlets reported that oil and gas lobbies have spent close to a half billion dollars lobbying the Biden administration to reduce regulations. So, obviously, for your assertion (and to be fair) you would want to know how much environmental groups have lobbied, but also those groups connections to {checks notes} big induction.

Just...just as an aside, and I don't know the answer to be honest, but what do you think the market is for gas v electric appliances, and in how many instances are the manufacturers exclusively one or the other? Or as Columbo would say, "Just one more thing...."

Looking at the size of one market, global oil/gas energy vs induction stove manufacturers, it’s quite clear, one side has a lot more to lose, monetarily speaking . No one can dispute this.

 

[Mechjaz]

I’m pretty sure slapping a “this is known by the state of California to cause …” sticker on the stoves is going to do absolutely nothing. It’s already a joke that those stickers come on everything. Why not do what New York did?

At least they reworded it. It used to be "known to cause [usually] cancer in the state of California" to which was no end of jokes about not using/doing the thing in California.

 

[Arstotzka]

Switching to an electric shouldn't even require an electrical panel upgrade for the majority of homes.

Annoyingly, it is possible for the panel to need an upgrade. Not because the service needs to be increased, but because it requires adding another circuit and if there’s no room for that, it means the panel needs to be changed, and that means no longer being grandfathered in to previous versions of the electric code, which in my case would mean relocating the entire thing a few inches because it is too close to the gas line.

About $15k at the low end, if you’re curious. Ugh.