Microsoft to replace flickering Surface Pro 4s for free
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The lower third of the screen on my HP Envy x360 flickers but not like that. It didn't do it for months after it was new but after a few updates it started.
The Surface Pro 4 screen flicker looks very similar to my old Macbook Pro screen problem which is a bad video card.
My next laptop will be a cheap piece of crap because it seems they all have some flaw. You can barely get your money's worth out of it before it fails. Meanwhile I've got an old (with floppy drive, no USB) Compaq Armada laptop the size of a phone book that still works.
The Surface Pro 4 screen flicker looks very similar to my old Macbook Pro screen problem which is a bad video card.
My next laptop will be a cheap piece of crap because it seems they all have some flaw. You can barely get your money's worth out of it before it fails. Meanwhile I've got an old (with floppy drive, no USB) Compaq Armada laptop the size of a phone book that still works.
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From what i've heard from some people I know a lot of what is in a dell is refurbished.
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Becuase your country hasnt made laws to protect your consumer rights.
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I don't think so. They need to fix the issue, and can't give a worse replacement, but they can give you a machine that is just as good except fixed as the one you bought.
Anyway "refurbished" machines on this new equipment is essentially just machines send back within the first 14 days as is allowed in the EU. They can even sell those as new.
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This is so lame, they basically have the best x-over product in the world and they go for refurb. New Surface pro (5, which it isn't called I think) for everyone.
Microsoft, you have been going so good last few years, don't go fucking it up over obvious manufacture error.
I have had my SP4 now for almost two years, couldn't be happier about it, but sucks for those that are inflicted by this.
Microsoft, you have been going so good last few years, don't go fucking it up over obvious manufacture error.
I have had my SP4 now for almost two years, couldn't be happier about it, but sucks for those that are inflicted by this.
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No, it's definitely money back warranty. Perhaps this refurb thing is something producers try out now, and we'll see how it ends up in courts practice.
Here in Norway, that's semi-EU, it's for five years, money-back or brand new product - for products assumed to last for five years.
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This should really be detailed in the warranty. In insurance, there's a difference between "equivalent functionality" and "equivalent monetary value". If the guarantee is the first, a replacement might actually give you an updated-spec newer device if the one you bought is no longer being made.
Over here, car insurance regs require the insurance companies to be explicit in their policies re what components will be used to repair.
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Not necessarily connected, but Dell had an issue a few years ago whereby their Laptops would bluescreen on a regular basis. It eventually turned out that there was an issue with the graphics cards they used and specifically with the soldering coming apart. One temporary cure was to bake the laptop in an oven which would reflow the solder and thus correct the issue. Apparently it would only work temporarily, but it worked. Might be something like this.
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I have a SP4 that I use for daily work in Laos. It gets some pretty rugged treatment, having been carted on a scooter daily, but also a dirt bike for three weeks, including half a dozen spills due to it being the wet season and me being fairly inexperienced on said bike.
My early experience was lots of frustration as it handled going into sleep mode very badly, and needed to be reset which required holding the power button for 25 seconds. It also had problems with downscaling certain applications (SSMS and Remote Terminal) since the native resolution of the device was so high the recommended was to run it at 200% (or is that 50%?). Took about a year for that to work its way out with various updates. Since then it was rock solid, until the screen started to judder by a couple of pixels, and finally much more severely.
After doing the whole online support thing they told me to go to a MS store for a replacement. I was dubious that this would happen, but last November, over two years since I bought it, they gave me a brand new (and slightly upgraded) version, no questions asked.
The new one works like a dream for now. With the SP4 I have finally achieved paperless with a combo of the pen, camera and OneNote. I also love the way it can handle being a tablet or a full on development machine - my role is pretty diverse so at times I am doing power points to ministers, but at others web service development and complex SQL interactions.
The TL;DR is that the approach to MS in replacing my unit turned my frustrations into a fan of the product.
My early experience was lots of frustration as it handled going into sleep mode very badly, and needed to be reset which required holding the power button for 25 seconds. It also had problems with downscaling certain applications (SSMS and Remote Terminal) since the native resolution of the device was so high the recommended was to run it at 200% (or is that 50%?). Took about a year for that to work its way out with various updates. Since then it was rock solid, until the screen started to judder by a couple of pixels, and finally much more severely.
After doing the whole online support thing they told me to go to a MS store for a replacement. I was dubious that this would happen, but last November, over two years since I bought it, they gave me a brand new (and slightly upgraded) version, no questions asked.
The new one works like a dream for now. With the SP4 I have finally achieved paperless with a combo of the pen, camera and OneNote. I also love the way it can handle being a tablet or a full on development machine - my role is pretty diverse so at times I am doing power points to ministers, but at others web service development and complex SQL interactions.
The TL;DR is that the approach to MS in replacing my unit turned my frustrations into a fan of the product.
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I don’t agree. If anything they learned a lot from the 360 fiasco. Remember the original Xbox One? It was massive, even tough it didn’t need to be, compared to the PS4. They really went conservative with the design, with lot of room for air to flow. Most people agreed that they overdid it actuallly.
Then they released the One X, which is one if not the smallest console they have ever made and still apparently super quiet and the heat dissipation technique is ahead of anything else on the console market.
Seems like they just dropped the ball there. What consumer electronic hardware company doesn’t? The good news is the are doing something about it.
Edit: I do my best proof reading after hitting submit.
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FINALLY.
I've been suffering with this for over a year now. It's definitely heat-related, so it's good to hear this should be fixed as summer is coming, as it's way worse then.
I've been suffering with this for over a year now. It's definitely heat-related, so it's good to hear this should be fixed as summer is coming, as it's way worse then.
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Before you replace a Surface device for a refurbished model, consider the warranty protection coverage you may have from your credit card.
American Express, Chase Sapphire, and Visa Rewards cards typically cover an additional period beyond the manufacturer's warranty, so if you purchased your Surface using one of those, you may have that coverage on your original serial number. However, if you exchange that Surface for a device with a new serial number, they will only provide coverage for the replacement refurbished unit according to the warranty it comes with. This means that following Microsoft's service recommendation may impact your secondary coverage.
I had a Surface Book with a screen bleeding issue that was getting so bad I couldn't have dark windows open on a quarter of the screen. Although the motherboard was working fine, the glue along one edge of the display was parting and exposing the light from the LEDs under the display. I purchased the extended warranty on that original unit so I had two years of manufacturer coverage, and since I used an Amex, I would then have an additional year on top of that, as Microsoft Surfaces have a year of coverage with each serial number.
Unfortunately, when I replaced the Surface Book under warranty for that problem, I got a refurbished model replacement which developed performance problems with the CPU and GPU after two months. I believed that I still had a year under my Amex warranty, so when I filed a claim with my Amex Assurance, I was rather shocked when they declined it.
They only provide coverage according to the serial of the device you list on the claim, and because all refurbished Surfaces have a 90-day warranty, they offered coverage for 90 days only on that second laptop, even though their coverage window for the original was more than year away.
I strongly recommend that if you are considering replacing your Surface 4 Pro, and you purchased it with a credit card that has additional coverage, file a claim with your card company first. Your original serial number has warranty value that a refurbished one does not.
At first I was upset at my credit card company, and I complained when I found out that they wouldn't give me coverage for what turned out to be a lemon. However, due to Insurace fraud laws, they can only cover and provide insurance for the warranty of an appliance according to the original manufacturer warranty attached to its serial number. This is the same for any laptop, appliance or electronics item from any company, so I will do the same for my wife's Apple laptop if it comes time to replace it as well.
This is just another example of how replacing new laptops with refurbished ones under warranty hurts consumers. Without regulation that either guarantees the same warranty coverage for replacements or mandates that customers get a new laptop replacement, there won't be any change either. It's just not profitable.
American Express, Chase Sapphire, and Visa Rewards cards typically cover an additional period beyond the manufacturer's warranty, so if you purchased your Surface using one of those, you may have that coverage on your original serial number. However, if you exchange that Surface for a device with a new serial number, they will only provide coverage for the replacement refurbished unit according to the warranty it comes with. This means that following Microsoft's service recommendation may impact your secondary coverage.
I had a Surface Book with a screen bleeding issue that was getting so bad I couldn't have dark windows open on a quarter of the screen. Although the motherboard was working fine, the glue along one edge of the display was parting and exposing the light from the LEDs under the display. I purchased the extended warranty on that original unit so I had two years of manufacturer coverage, and since I used an Amex, I would then have an additional year on top of that, as Microsoft Surfaces have a year of coverage with each serial number.
Unfortunately, when I replaced the Surface Book under warranty for that problem, I got a refurbished model replacement which developed performance problems with the CPU and GPU after two months. I believed that I still had a year under my Amex warranty, so when I filed a claim with my Amex Assurance, I was rather shocked when they declined it.
They only provide coverage according to the serial of the device you list on the claim, and because all refurbished Surfaces have a 90-day warranty, they offered coverage for 90 days only on that second laptop, even though their coverage window for the original was more than year away.
I strongly recommend that if you are considering replacing your Surface 4 Pro, and you purchased it with a credit card that has additional coverage, file a claim with your card company first. Your original serial number has warranty value that a refurbished one does not.
At first I was upset at my credit card company, and I complained when I found out that they wouldn't give me coverage for what turned out to be a lemon. However, due to Insurace fraud laws, they can only cover and provide insurance for the warranty of an appliance according to the original manufacturer warranty attached to its serial number. This is the same for any laptop, appliance or electronics item from any company, so I will do the same for my wife's Apple laptop if it comes time to replace it as well.
This is just another example of how replacing new laptops with refurbished ones under warranty hurts consumers. Without regulation that either guarantees the same warranty coverage for replacements or mandates that customers get a new laptop replacement, there won't be any change either. It's just not profitable.
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Some things never change, MS is just as bad at hardware as the are at software.
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Huh. This fall will be year 3. So far no issues. Hope this is a problem that would show up before now.
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Bullshit mr itard. My iPad pro 9.7 was just replaced as the port failed on it and shall we talk about the plethora of iPhone problems that have plagued Apple over the years....My first gen MacBook pro.... repaired 4 times, then replaced then repaired once before I sold the damn thing. Then there was the Samsung note 7 battery issues. No company is immune to hardware problems.
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And if Microsoft's ex-CEO got involved, it would be Bill Gates flickergate.
But, yes, I agree- why does any scandal have to "something-gate"?
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EU law only requires the seller to properly repair or replace the product, with refund as last option. And mandatory guarantee us only 2 years.
But some countries go further and allow consumers to demand an immediate refund.
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2011-MBP-dGPU-gate
Apple replaced the main board on my $4000 laptop the first time this happened (heat caused a failure of the ball connections). 8 months later, when it failed again, they told me to fork over $450 or take a hike.
I'd still be using that machine today instead of a Dell if it wasn't defective.
Apple replaced the main board on my $4000 laptop the first time this happened (heat caused a failure of the ball connections). 8 months later, when it failed again, they told me to fork over $450 or take a hike.
I'd still be using that machine today instead of a Dell if it wasn't defective.
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As a counter point, the sp4 was released in October 2015 so it's not going to be "a few months later" in most cases. Mines over 2 years old, has been used heavily daily and obviously has not been refurbished. I'm hopeful that the replacemmenr will actually be a step up in longevity, at least in my case.
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At least MS is quickly replacing the devices, so kudo's to them on that. I was over at AppleInsider today reading about people's issues with the 2016 MacBook Pro keyboard. How Apple is treating the issue and the cost associated with fixing it is atrocious.
MS looks like damn saints compared to Apple and I would rather buy from them than Apple. At least if something goes wrong I know they would be willing to work with me.
MS looks like damn saints compared to Apple and I would rather buy from them than Apple. At least if something goes wrong I know they would be willing to work with me.
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Makers have traditionally been slow to 'see' hardware problems.
In my (last) experience with Apple (mid-2000s), they had a forum where (at least) hundreds of iMac users reported displays developing colored vertical bars in them a few months after the warranty ran out. Apple's response was to remove complaints from the forum every now and then. (IIRC the displays cost about $700 to replace.)
Eventually (a year or two later) there was a limited offer to replace some of the machines. How many people were still trying to use them by that time?
In my (last) experience with Apple (mid-2000s), they had a forum where (at least) hundreds of iMac users reported displays developing colored vertical bars in them a few months after the warranty ran out. Apple's response was to remove complaints from the forum every now and then. (IIRC the displays cost about $700 to replace.)
Eventually (a year or two later) there was a limited offer to replace some of the machines. How many people were still trying to use them by that time?
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People used to buy red ringed xboxes and do this. Thermal paste upgrade, good cleaning, garbage becomes worth $100
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Ok, my bad, I stand corrected. I think Switzerland and GB have better than that, but then Swiss is EEC, as Norway, and Britain - who knows what they will be eventually - what with Brexit and strange politicians. I think France also have a better policy, as if I buy from a well-known french Amazon-like, I get 5 year warranty, but that might be for us that buy from more well-endowed countries (no, not with a bigger c***).
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My wife had a surface RT. It served its purpose for her first two years at College, then started going twitchy like an old cell phone. Convinced that since it had hardware closer to a cell phone than a real computer I figured that while not okay this is probably what it was: a big cell phone going wonky. so we bought a surface 3 Pro to replace it. this functioned perfectly well until it was dropped in a bathroom and shattered the corner of the screen. surprisingly the screen still functioned but was acting like it was being touched at the same point along a crack.
We took the Pro 3 to a Microsoft certified repair shop who used a Microsoft oem screen ( digitizer and LCD in one sealed unit) literally the day after the warranty was up, 31 days I think, the computer began acting as if that same spot where the old screen was cracked was being touched on the brand new screen. Not wanting to waste money on the other *another* "brand new screen" we grabbed a used Surface Pro 3 on eBay from a seller with 100% feedback, within hours after being turned on this computer acted as if the screen was being touched when it wasn't.... just like the other one.
This computer was returned and another one was bought from a different seller and we experienced the exact same issue for a third time. Search for Surface Pro 3 on eBay today and you'll find numerous with these issues. Microsoft is making junk again.
Microsoft used to be a company that made very solid things. Early windows phones kick my androids ass with both how responsive they were and the battery life ... No longer. MS just isn't good anymore they abandon products (lumina) or start making junk (sp4) ... I used to say "never bet against MS, they will work at beating you until they have a better product, (or at least AS GOOD) and they then will undercut your finances to kill you" ... Now they skip the get a better product part.
We took the Pro 3 to a Microsoft certified repair shop who used a Microsoft oem screen ( digitizer and LCD in one sealed unit) literally the day after the warranty was up, 31 days I think, the computer began acting as if that same spot where the old screen was cracked was being touched on the brand new screen. Not wanting to waste money on the other *another* "brand new screen" we grabbed a used Surface Pro 3 on eBay from a seller with 100% feedback, within hours after being turned on this computer acted as if the screen was being touched when it wasn't.... just like the other one.
This computer was returned and another one was bought from a different seller and we experienced the exact same issue for a third time. Search for Surface Pro 3 on eBay today and you'll find numerous with these issues. Microsoft is making junk again.
Microsoft used to be a company that made very solid things. Early windows phones kick my androids ass with both how responsive they were and the battery life ... No longer. MS just isn't good anymore they abandon products (lumina) or start making junk (sp4) ... I used to say "never bet against MS, they will work at beating you until they have a better product, (or at least AS GOOD) and they then will undercut your finances to kill you" ... Now they skip the get a better product part.
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That's standard practice for all hardware manufactures especially if it's a older model and the boards are no longer made they ship a tested refurbished unit or part and take back the defective one to be repaired by a bench tech or recycled. They also do the same thing for cars and Appliances the manufactures have to keep making replacement parts generally as long as any units can be claimed under warranty. PC makers tend to keep refurbished parts longer mainly for Business line models as those tend to not only stay in service longer but larger businesses buy the extended no questions asked service agreement where the IT guys requests the part and a contractor of a contractor comes to replace it or they just ship the part because the IT staff has the cert to fix it.
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Agreed. Do I have a second to start calling them 'Ghazis' instead? This would be Flickgerghazi. Show of hands?
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Flickergate? Really?
Microsoft has a late production/life issue with one product, that they are going to fix, and they are demonized for doing the right thing?
Year after year with almost every generation of Apple devices, flickering screens (and other screen problems) issues have plagued their products, and it is hardly ever mentioned by tech writers.
Apple has also never been demonized, and stories written about the flicking issues explain away the Apple 'screen issues' as being an exception - even though they are not.
Apple also has also been deaf to consumers, hardly ever addressing the issues or fixing them.
- See for yourself - do a web search: apple flickering screen.
There are thousands video and thousands of blogs with 'tricks/tips' to fix Apple flicker issues, that range from slapping the products, and freezing them and heating them to full tear downs to add glue and other tricks to secure cables, etc. You will also find an array of ofther Apple screen and hardware issues that have gone unaddressed by Apple.
The Apple love is fine, but to go after Microsoft after they offer to fix a problem that appeared in late life/production of a product, how does that make sense?
*stupidgate*
Microsoft has a late production/life issue with one product, that they are going to fix, and they are demonized for doing the right thing?
Year after year with almost every generation of Apple devices, flickering screens (and other screen problems) issues have plagued their products, and it is hardly ever mentioned by tech writers.
Apple has also never been demonized, and stories written about the flicking issues explain away the Apple 'screen issues' as being an exception - even though they are not.
Apple also has also been deaf to consumers, hardly ever addressing the issues or fixing them.
- See for yourself - do a web search: apple flickering screen.
There are thousands video and thousands of blogs with 'tricks/tips' to fix Apple flicker issues, that range from slapping the products, and freezing them and heating them to full tear downs to add glue and other tricks to secure cables, etc. You will also find an array of ofther Apple screen and hardware issues that have gone unaddressed by Apple.
The Apple love is fine, but to go after Microsoft after they offer to fix a problem that appeared in late life/production of a product, how does that make sense?
*stupidgate*
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YetAnotherAnonymousAppellation
Ars Praefectus
I used to recommend refurb items on the assumption that the almost inevitable manufacturing defect present in all consumer electronics had been uncovered, fixed, and the unit thoroughly tested.
That was before I figured out that what "refurbished" actually means is that someone may have actually turned it on to verify it booted, wiped it down, and then slapped it into a box without doing anything else.
Now, I won't even consider a refurb unless it's so cheap that I can scrap it and still have enough value by disassembling it for parts to make it an acceptable deal. Anything that doesn't have useful sub-assemblies (e.g. TVs) is an absolute NO!
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YetAnotherAnonymousAppellation
Ars Praefectus
If what you say is true, then the issue is that Apple fanbois will keep buying Apple products even though they treat their customers like dirt.
This doesn't mean that MS should get a pass for selling a shoddy product, it means that Apple should also be held similarly accountable.
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Oh, yeah. These new ones are the machines that iFixit deemed "unfixable" because you have to actually break the case in order to open 'em up. Good luck, folks!
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Having owned several large computer dealerships with repair facilities I seen this work or seem to at least. A hairline crack on a solder joint can temporarily be closed by expansion when heating and then the heat from the device can keep it working until you turn it off and it cools then you are back to square one.
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Users reported the problem soon after release if you look on their forums, there are complaints going back to November 2015. They took 2 1/2 years to finally acknowledge there was an issue.
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I have a MBP 2011 15" with a descrete video card and went through two motherboards - both at Apple's expense on a generous extended warranty period that ended just a short while ago.
Yes it was a flaw and Apple took a while (a long while) to respond but they did and I'm pleased with the solution. However, I refuse to buy a new one until their keyboards are more reliable and comfortable - I don't want "thin" to be the primary reason I buy a laptop. That's what tablets are for.
I want a gotdamn usable keyboard that won't be KO'ed by a crumb.
-Recovering Fanboi
Yes it was a flaw and Apple took a while (a long while) to respond but they did and I'm pleased with the solution. However, I refuse to buy a new one until their keyboards are more reliable and comfortable - I don't want "thin" to be the primary reason I buy a laptop. That's what tablets are for.
I want a gotdamn usable keyboard that won't be KO'ed by a crumb.
-Recovering Fanboi
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I've actually experienced this a few times, apart from the solder issues on the 360 mentioned my Dell Studio 15 also would only boot up when the GPU was piping hot! I'd either let it heat up turned on in its black screen state (which never engaged the fan until it was booted), or speed up the process with a hair drier. Wasn't the best method but it was old and near dead by that point.
The problem with ball grid array solder especially from 2009-2011 with the first batches after the lead free switch was the balls would sometimes crack, and heat would cause them to expand and make contact. That Studio 15 got a few more months and the data off of it because it stayed on when it was booted, just not when it was cold.
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Not trying to what-about this, but the program for the 2011 Macbook Pro solder flaws only started in 2015 and ended in 2017, I bring this up because maybe it takes time to gather enough evidence that a problem is widespread, we can see popular forum posts and such but that may be a blip in the grand scheme of sales, we just don't have the internal data.
https://www.macworld.co.uk/news/mac/mac ... e-3497935/
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I'd thought about the whole process and it sucks - I recently had a small kitchen appliance break on me.
The part that broke was small and plastic, but the whole process left me without the appliance through the RMA process and I didn't get compensated for the hassle in any way.
That made me go even further towards 'quality' things, but even that is no panacea - the latest $4k Macbook Pros develop keyboard problems, I had an SD card die on me (it has no moving parts).
My next startup idea is insurance where you get compensated whenever such a thing happens, no questions asked, minimal friction so you can buy another new item like that and not go through RMA hell.
The part that broke was small and plastic, but the whole process left me without the appliance through the RMA process and I didn't get compensated for the hassle in any way.
That made me go even further towards 'quality' things, but even that is no panacea - the latest $4k Macbook Pros develop keyboard problems, I had an SD card die on me (it has no moving parts).
My next startup idea is insurance where you get compensated whenever such a thing happens, no questions asked, minimal friction so you can buy another new item like that and not go through RMA hell.
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I think the people who downvoted you were holding their mouse wrong.
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