Microsoft keeps insisting that it’s deeply committed to the quality of Windows 11
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The Windows 7 task bar was certainly a different and lasting take on window management (at least where Windows is concerned). The Windows 8 task manager provided some genuinely useful new information. WSL is great if you need that sort of thing. PowerShell is, from what I understand, a very powerful automation tool for Windows. There are lots of examples of Windows incrementally improving over the long years for various classes of people, and it's hard to predict what future features might one day become obvious and major improvements.
With how Microsoft have been managing Windows, though, I don't know that we'll ever get there.
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It's really hard to take MS seriously on this sort of thing. The serious quality deficiencies are, alarmingly, perhaps the least of it: those suggest a fairly dire deficiency in engineering and testing; but might conceivably be delivered in good faith by whatever survivors of the shareholder value blood culls.
The 'unnecessary copilot entry points' and general getting-advertised-at-like-it's-a-pre-malwared-android-box experience(sorry, 'second chance out of box experience'), though, are not some sort of under-resourcing or misunderstood design concept. That stuff is obviously deliberate and obviously adversarial and is only going to be walked back if MS are actively concerned, likely only just enough, just long enough, to reduce the temperature slightly.
The 'unnecessary copilot entry points' and general getting-advertised-at-like-it's-a-pre-malwared-android-box experience(sorry, 'second chance out of box experience'), though, are not some sort of under-resourcing or misunderstood design concept. That stuff is obviously deliberate and obviously adversarial and is only going to be walked back if MS are actively concerned, likely only just enough, just long enough, to reduce the temperature slightly.
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As usual, tech companies don’t even start making promises to do better until the people who use the product have become thunderously loud complainers, and/or people start leaving in droves (if that’s even an option). It costs far more time, effort, and resources to turn a ship completely around compared to mild course correction, and yet they never seem to understand that.
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FWIW, MacOS isn't bad these days.
I switched Mom over when her NUC started shitting itself like a toddler let loose in a chocolate-covered bacon booth. There were a few hiccoughs, but nothing too major; she's happily using it now, and hasn't dropped back to the NUC in at least a couple months other than to find some odd file she hadn't copied over.
Maybe talk with your IT people and see if you can get a Mac to try out for a while?
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Or it'll reset it's position every time the monitor layout changes, making it useless for docked laptops.
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Windows 7 was perfectly fine, everything that came after was worse. Imagine had they just kept focussed on refining the Windows user experience after 7 like Apple do for MacOS rather than push cloud, ads and AI everywhere.
No wonder people are increasingly looking to alternatives and hopefully it holds to teach them and similar large tech companies a lesson.
Too busy doing some strategic cloud/AI political power play and boosting dubious AI accelerationists like Suleyman and Altman rather than focussing on their actual customers.
No wonder people are increasingly looking to alternatives and hopefully it holds to teach them and similar large tech companies a lesson.
Too busy doing some strategic cloud/AI political power play and boosting dubious AI accelerationists like Suleyman and Altman rather than focussing on their actual customers.
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The more I've stewed on it, the more irritated I am. Why did they let it get so bad that they felt like they had to put out this message? Couldn't they have just not let it become super shitty over the last few years? It remains to be seen whether they can fix it, but why are they actually taking the time to acknowledge it?
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SubWoofer2
Ars Tribunus Militum
I don't want to climb aboard the negativity train about Win 11, so I'll play it straight about quality. For this user, it is about usability. In practical terms this means muscle memory of established work flows.
If there is a Santa Claus in Redmond, then dear Santa my expectations now are low, after you have spent years putting lumps of coal into my Christmas stocking. And yet still I hope, but it's now a short list:
- The Task Bar. I want it two or three rows high, so it fits all the things I want to see. (Someone needs to be fired for preventing user choice in how many rows high for the Taskbar).
- The Task Bar. I want it to fit larger icons, so I can see what I am looking for. Part of this is now having to wear reading glasses, and part is that a redesign of your icons to a modern iconography has made it hard to tell the difference between Office program icons. (Someone needs to be fired for preventing user choice in icon sets, and in icon sizes).
- The Most Recent Files. I want it to show the Most Recent Files. Not the version of the files that I most recently used but had saved yesterday in a directory I used yesterday not today. (Someone needs to be fired for preventing the most recent save from being detected as a Recently Used File).
- The Snipping Tool. Just give me a choice of the old one. (Whoever thought I needed new functionality and more clicks when Snipping should be fired, but really the person who ought to go down the road is the person who prevents the old Snipping Tool from being installed on Win 11).
- The Desktop. Just leave my desktop alone! I want the icons in the same place even after a Windows update. I have a matrix layout with rows of Tools/Customer 1/2/3/4 / Back Office Tools/ Text tools / etc. Each row has relevant icons left to right, eg profile logins, publishing tools ranging from Notepad to full Publisher-level. This is randomly scrambled at every Windows update.
These are simple requests.
I haven't even asked that you stop killing the functionality of third-party tools that solve some of this crap. As I said, my expectations are low after all those deliveries of coal.
I know you are a very paternalistic organisation and your software is based on the model, "Dave I can't let you do that" but perhaps one Christmas these crumbs may drip from your fingers. Because it's a special day, and maybe someone in Redmond has watched "It's a Wonderful Life".
If there is a Santa Claus in Redmond, then dear Santa my expectations now are low, after you have spent years putting lumps of coal into my Christmas stocking. And yet still I hope, but it's now a short list:
- The Task Bar. I want it two or three rows high, so it fits all the things I want to see. (Someone needs to be fired for preventing user choice in how many rows high for the Taskbar).
- The Task Bar. I want it to fit larger icons, so I can see what I am looking for. Part of this is now having to wear reading glasses, and part is that a redesign of your icons to a modern iconography has made it hard to tell the difference between Office program icons. (Someone needs to be fired for preventing user choice in icon sets, and in icon sizes).
- The Most Recent Files. I want it to show the Most Recent Files. Not the version of the files that I most recently used but had saved yesterday in a directory I used yesterday not today. (Someone needs to be fired for preventing the most recent save from being detected as a Recently Used File).
- The Snipping Tool. Just give me a choice of the old one. (Whoever thought I needed new functionality and more clicks when Snipping should be fired, but really the person who ought to go down the road is the person who prevents the old Snipping Tool from being installed on Win 11).
- The Desktop. Just leave my desktop alone! I want the icons in the same place even after a Windows update. I have a matrix layout with rows of Tools/Customer 1/2/3/4 / Back Office Tools/ Text tools / etc. Each row has relevant icons left to right, eg profile logins, publishing tools ranging from Notepad to full Publisher-level. This is randomly scrambled at every Windows update.
These are simple requests.
I haven't even asked that you stop killing the functionality of third-party tools that solve some of this crap. As I said, my expectations are low after all those deliveries of coal.
I know you are a very paternalistic organisation and your software is based on the model, "Dave I can't let you do that" but perhaps one Christmas these crumbs may drip from your fingers. Because it's a special day, and maybe someone in Redmond has watched "It's a Wonderful Life".
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Yeah, I get the principle. But isn’t it a pain to move all the way to the side when you need it?
I guess I use two large 4k monitors side by side so I don’t care so much?
In any event the point is lots of people do care about this so they should have fixed it a long time ago. And as a user, when they break a feature that lots of people care about I take notice - even if I don’t use that feature.
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I should be able to trust my operating system to be secure and not divulge my health or my finances or any number of non-of-your-business stuff or shove ads down my throat. Win10 was the start of that crud.. I'd have stayed on win10 (heck 7 really) if it weren't for the security.. win11 was last straw.. 3 of 4 home machines fully linux.. it works for most things, including games. I keep win11 just in case.. but I think I've booted into it 2 times in the last 6 months.. this from a user since DOS 3.3.
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SubWoofer2
Ars Tribunus Militum
My A-B comparison with Linux is that Microsoft will install and then, in use, will break things randomly and, when fixed, will break things later unexpectedly a different way. On the other hand, Linux will install in ways that are discovered to be broken, and when fixed, will stay fixed. My temperament suits the latter philosophy. I guess it depends whether you want your surprises up front, or scattered throughout the use life.
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Microsoft keeps insisting that it’s deeply committed to the quality enshittification of Windows 11
FIFY
FIFY
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There has never been a better time to migrate to Linux. I urge people to give it a shot. Gaming was holding me back for so long, but cachy/steam makes it damn near seamless.
distros worth considering:
non-power user gaming: Bazzite
power user gaming (or just need cutting edge everything): CachyOS
non gamer: Mint
pining for the good old days of windows: Zorin
distros worth considering:
non-power user gaming: Bazzite
power user gaming (or just need cutting edge everything): CachyOS
non gamer: Mint
pining for the good old days of windows: Zorin
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What pisses me off the most with Windows is that they took what used to work then added 12 clicks to do the same operation in Windows 11. Its the constant focus stealing, popups that make me angry. The debloating scripts help, but it is not entirely clean.
My MInt box and my M4 Mini are way better here.
Then the constant reboots, i remember someone from Microsoft telling me that Windows reboots was something of the past.
Why must i choose the individual icons that i want displayed in the taskbar? The right click menu is a disaster. Two different version of the user interface with different fonts. The old one is the more readable also.
Settings/control panel - such a clusterfuck, then add in even older dialogue windows at random that might bring you back to the settings app that does not fucking fix the problem i am trying to solve. . sigh.
Bluetooth needing morning meds and a prayer to perhaps work well during a session, not to mention the wifi dialogues.
Fake shutdowns, making laptops melt if you have not made sure it really turns off, but hang on, we are going to update your OS. My laptop runs Windows 11 since it is not that well supported in Linux, but that is an Acer problem, not Microsoft, at least i think so.
My MInt box and my M4 Mini are way better here.
Then the constant reboots, i remember someone from Microsoft telling me that Windows reboots was something of the past.
Why must i choose the individual icons that i want displayed in the taskbar? The right click menu is a disaster. Two different version of the user interface with different fonts. The old one is the more readable also.
Settings/control panel - such a clusterfuck, then add in even older dialogue windows at random that might bring you back to the settings app that does not fucking fix the problem i am trying to solve. . sigh.
Bluetooth needing morning meds and a prayer to perhaps work well during a session, not to mention the wifi dialogues.
Fake shutdowns, making laptops melt if you have not made sure it really turns off, but hang on, we are going to update your OS. My laptop runs Windows 11 since it is not that well supported in Linux, but that is an Acer problem, not Microsoft, at least i think so.
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There is a special hell for people at Microsoft who write announcements worded like this, and for people who speak at the theatre.
A special hell.
A special hell.
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I don't see anything in there about removing ads, and the issues about a Microsoft account are already noted. It doesn't sound like they plan to do anything to recover trust.
The taskbar change is nice, and I'll use it, but honestly at this point it's more like a shameful reminder that they took it away for no reason. It does nothing to restore good feelings.
The taskbar change is nice, and I'll use it, but honestly at this point it's more like a shameful reminder that they took it away for no reason. It does nothing to restore good feelings.
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I think it's a sort of "tail wagging the dog" moment.
Some sales analyst sees that everyone's selling AI stuff, so they put in AI stuff. People like (or at least tolerate) the bars in MacOS, iOS, and Android, so they fix the bar to the bottom.
Then they find that the expectations were wrong, and you end up with statements like this.
I don't think they've really realized it, though. I doubt they'll stop, re-evaluate the problems with Windows, and work to correct them; they'll just grind down the highest points of friction and call it good.
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You can all thank me, I recently canceled my subscription auto renewal of Office 365 and when they asked why, I stated too much AI in everything. I don't want it and No means No.
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lunatic_cringe
Smack-Fu Master, in training
Aero snap is the first thing I turn off when I find myself spending any amount of time on a Windows computer. Especially one with multiple monitors. Everyone’s workflow is different, though. I’m just thankful MS gives us the option, vs. the Apple m.o. We know best how you should use your computer!
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I honestly kind of liked the Office Cat version of the assistant.Never thought I'd yern for the days of Clippy
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Good. But my Win10 stays Win10 until 11 restores the Quick Launch toolbar. Pinned apps don't cut it, because they move around horizontally if labels and ungrouping are enabled.
If they wanna do halfsies, a checkbox for "keep pinned icons on the left" would partly get there, but that would still prevent me from having shortcuts to specific folders, or shortcuts with custom command flags.
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Microsoft lost me as a user of 25 years with the release of Windows 8, at which time I saw the writing on the wall. Windows 10, with the addition of telemetry, forced updates, and the continuation of two settings screens, was not a significant improvement.
If I recall correctly, Windows 8 was also the first version of Windows after Microsoft disbanded significant portions of their QA and testing teams.
To see this message almost 15 years after the release of Windows 8 does not give me confidence that Microsoft will ever get Windows back on track.
Today, I’m unfortunately in a position where I need to continue to use it for work. I did give W11 the benefit of the doubt when I recently bought a new personal Lenovo, but the requirement for an MS account, combined with force updates and multiple restarts, had me installing Fedora only hours after installing Windows. The final straw? Windows search for settings didn’t even work out of the box on a brand new machine.
If I recall correctly, Windows 8 was also the first version of Windows after Microsoft disbanded significant portions of their QA and testing teams.
To see this message almost 15 years after the release of Windows 8 does not give me confidence that Microsoft will ever get Windows back on track.
Today, I’m unfortunately in a position where I need to continue to use it for work. I did give W11 the benefit of the doubt when I recently bought a new personal Lenovo, but the requirement for an MS account, combined with force updates and multiple restarts, had me installing Fedora only hours after installing Windows. The final straw? Windows search for settings didn’t even work out of the box on a brand new machine.
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I’ve no ire against W11 and found it to be a good foundation. That said, I’ve turned off auto-updates and have no intention of letting ANY AI slop on what is, ostensibly, my gaming PC.
They can fuck right off with that BS.
They can fuck right off with that BS.
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Linux Mint on a new PC and NO Microsoft shit at all. Libre Office. Firefox. Good luck in the Epstein files Bill.
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I'm conflicted.
I want them to keep sucking and getting worse so more people discover the easy and enjoyment of modern Linux distro for average users, link Mint, or Catchy, etc, and a significant return of computer resources no longer bogged down by the OS
Potentially adding so more years of life to their system in this Ram expensive market.
I also hope more enterprise customers realize the options with stable multiyear support distro for end users.
But I also think they should just rip the bandaid and move Win 12, MS has continued it's "Curse" of generally every other OS version sucking and pissing people off. In previous editions it feels like they'd have moved the f' on by now. (I'm not sure if that's just failing memory of age, or they really are dragging this out way longer then usual).
I want them to keep sucking and getting worse so more people discover the easy and enjoyment of modern Linux distro for average users, link Mint, or Catchy, etc, and a significant return of computer resources no longer bogged down by the OS
Potentially adding so more years of life to their system in this Ram expensive market.
I also hope more enterprise customers realize the options with stable multiyear support distro for end users.
But I also think they should just rip the bandaid and move Win 12, MS has continued it's "Curse" of generally every other OS version sucking and pissing people off. In previous editions it feels like they'd have moved the f' on by now. (I'm not sure if that's just failing memory of age, or they really are dragging this out way longer then usual).
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They fucked up Notepad so bad it had a critical CVE. They fucked up Task Manager so it didn't cleanly exit when you closed it, and each new instance ate up more memory. They fucked up a major update so badly they had to delay it for a large part of the audience. They've forgotten all the security lessons from the XP SP2 fiasco, and they're getting worse trying to shove CoproPilot into everything, and they've already had to shelve the original plans for Windows Recall, aka "Windows watch everything you do and store it in a nice little insecure database that nefarious actors can enjoy should they gain access".
No, thank you. Yeah, I'm using Windows 11, but I much preferred 10. (I also work across Mac, and generally that's been not too bad, Liquid Ass notwithstanding).
No, thank you. Yeah, I'm using Windows 11, but I much preferred 10. (I also work across Mac, and generally that's been not too bad, Liquid Ass notwithstanding).
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(/S) Ads in windows... Look kids, there is no such thing as a free ride! Microsoft has to pay all it's employees. They need to eat!
Oh ... wait... we paid ... and there is an alternative free ride available...
Never mind.
(I would like to take this opportunity to thank all the volunteers that make Linux happen. )
Oh ... wait... we paid ... and there is an alternative free ride available...
Never mind.
(I would like to take this opportunity to thank all the volunteers that make Linux happen. )
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I've been having issues with a recent update, it reportedly fixed video issues but I started getting random driver crashes after it installed, and now it's installed a second time and I can't remove it.
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Yes you can make it shut up with
https://www.oo-software.com/en/shutup10
The only reason to use that more than once is if Windows Update reverts a change. But when you open it up after a Windows Update it will highlight which settings the update effected and turned on and ask you if you want to turn it off again.
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I utterly don’t care about Windows.
It barely limps along on my work computer, which is fine by me.
Anything else is Apple, and maybe one day I’ll tinker with Linux.
It barely limps along on my work computer, which is fine by me.
Anything else is Apple, and maybe one day I’ll tinker with Linux.
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Vertical taskbar is nice for work as we are forced to use win11. At home it's over for MS.
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