How EVE Online builds emotion out of its strict in-game economy

Keeping virtual resources hard to get lets players craft their own value.

Read the whole story

 

[Penguin Warlord]

Some of my favourite memories are base jumping and otherwise spending hours glitching Halo 2. Soemtimes bugs are the best part.

 

[Abresh]

Penguin Warlord[/url]":1pt890to]Some of my favourite memories are base jumping and otherwise spending hours glitching Halo 2. Soemtimes bugs are the best part.

Sometimes bugs break/ruin the game for the people who are actually there to play it in the correct manner.... that is the 99% case.

 

[UserIDAlreadyInUse]

I'd be curious to know, since the game's been running for years now, where they set the bar to determine when a behavior is a bug and to apply a fix, and when to leave a behavior alone to be used by the player base? There must be some intensely interesting discussions at CCP around that, and I'd be interested to know more about how they decide to classify each.

 

[DarkSkyForever]

Abresh[/url]":1p17d7ja]

Penguin Warlord[/url]":1p17d7ja]Some of my favourite memories are base jumping and otherwise spending hours glitching Halo 2. Soemtimes bugs are the best part.

Sometimes bugs break/ruin the game for the people who are actually there to play it in the correct manner.... that is the 99% case.

I can guess which camp you'd fall under regarding the recent Jeopardy game theory controversy.

 

[TheMerricat]

Abresh[/url]":3knh9p2k]

Penguin Warlord[/url]":3knh9p2k]Some of my favourite memories are base jumping and otherwise spending hours glitching Halo 2. Soemtimes bugs are the best part.

Sometimes bugs break/ruin the game for the people who are actually there to play it in the correct manner.... that is the 99% case.

Then you have Tribes....

 

[matthewslyman]

…a galaxy-wide battle that destroys $300,000 in real-world value…

I totally understand why in-game objects acquire psychological value for players; but this sentence was enlightening for me. Do some Wall Street assets (sub-prime mortgage based securities, other assets "recovered" under government bail-out programs, perhaps even fully negotiable printed money) have only the same "real-world value" as these fictional objects; until the point when they have actually been redeemed against tangible real-world goods? We really are in deep trouble then…

 

[Kyle Orland]

matthewslyman[/url]":18zi64ww]

…a galaxy-wide battle that destroys $300,000 in real-world value…

I totally understand why in-game objects acquire psychological value for players; but this sentence was enlightening for me. Do some wall-street assets (sub-prime mortgage based securities, other assets "recovered" under government bail-out programs, perhaps even fully negotiable printed money) have only the same "real-world value" as these fictional objects; until the point when they have actually been redeemed against tangible real-world goods? We really are in deep trouble then…

The real-world value of EVE's in-game ISK is mainly measured in its ability to buy pilots license extensions, which can also be purchased for real money. A bit more on this here: http://massively.joystiq.com/2012/06/10 ... ng-points/

 

[DannibusX]

After swearing off MMO's a few years ago, I tried EVE after reading some of the stories about the game on various gaming blogs. It's been a great experience so far.

What sold me on continuing to play was that my ship was destroyed on my third or fourth time running into lowsec space, and the dude that did it gave me 10 million ISK to replace my ship, invited me to his corporation and wanted to teach me the ins and outs of PVP combat and lowsec survival. It was the greatest "guild" recruitment I have ever witnessed.

Unlike other MMO's EVE is a sandbox with everyone playing on the same server. It's really cool talking to people all over the world instead of people from the same time zone. It's fun and funny to find out how a different culture thinks about yours and vice-versa.

Just tell the Brits you have based your opinion on them based solely on Karl Pilkington or Gordon Ramsey for fun.

Edit:

The vast majority of ships in-game, including all of the Titans lost in the battle at B-R5RB were earned in game by the players. Real world news likes to attach to real world currency value to these ships because of Pilots License EXtensions available from CCP Games which have it's own market value. Currently a PLEX sells for $19.99 US and is available on the in-game market for 600 Million ISK.

 

[Quiet Desperation]

DannibusX[/url]":2xgns865]Just tell the Brits you have based your opinion on them based solely on Karl Pilkington or Gordon Ramsey for fun.

Back in the Usenet days I used Benny Hill for that.

 

[jweller13]

From an On The Media podcast. Very poignant story and relevant to this article I think

"...Sean Smith, one of the four killed in Benghazi, was an IT manager in the real world, but online, he was Vile Rat, a hugely influential diplomat in the video game Eve Online. TLDR Co-Host Alex Goldman looks at Sean’s life both offline and in Eve..."

http://onthemedia.tumblr.com/post/73752775446

 

[Pinko!]

The fact that losing a ship is a big deal leads to EvE being one of the most exciting games I have ever played.

 

[Bluefinger]

Well, I'm currently in a corporation who's alliance is collapsing, and we are doing are best to protect our assets by moving it all out to a safe place. In one region of space, instead of expending money/resources moving my stuff, I've simply sold it all off at a slight loss since it was more cost effective to liquidate those assets. For all of my other stuff, that's now been organised to get shipped out, making sure it doesn't get accidentally lost by opportunists looking for easy targets (which a few corp members have already have gotten caught).

And this is just another chapter in the game for me. I may have missed out on that exceedingly huge battle (it started after I went to bed), but I've had my fair share of awesome moments. I just look forward to where I'll end up next (or at least until some other MMO manages to grab my attention).

 

[matthewslyman]

Kyle Orland[/url]":3rihl1xd]

matthewslyman[/url]":3rihl1xd]

…a galaxy-wide battle that destroys $300,000 in real-world value…

I totally understand why in-game objects acquire psychological value for players; but this sentence was enlightening for me. Do some wall-street assets (sub-prime mortgage based securities, other assets "recovered" under government bail-out programs, perhaps even fully negotiable printed money) have only the same "real-world value" as these fictional objects; until the point when they have actually been redeemed against tangible real-world goods? We really are in deep trouble then…

The real-world value of EVE's in-game ISK is mainly measured in its ability to buy pilots license extensions, which can also be purchased for real money. A bit more on this here: http://massively.joystiq.com/2012/06/10 ... ng-points/

This comparison does place a theoretical real-world value on the in-game currency (which is perhaps partly what was intended by the game's designers); but that is also "just psychological", is it not? Unless of course you can sell ISK for real-world money, and transfer them in-game — in which case, the game could have real-world value to skilful players? I had a work-mate once who slept through half of his working days after moonlighting playing "Second Life" for a small profit (he designed/invented all sorts of things in the game, but some of his designs were unconstrained by real-world physics — as they must be in a fantasy game — so I was skeptical of the value of these design skills in the real world). So the game might have some real-world commercial value to a few skilful players…
I might be cynical now (perhaps partly due to my experience of working "with" that one game-addicted loser who lost his girlfriend, cheated his employer and constantly lied about me to the same employer, obstructing my progress, to protect his own back side; as well, to a lesser extent, as my own experience of the limited long-term value of most computer games); and markedly absent from the article are Petursson's wife's views on his explanation of why he spent part of his paternity leave on this game, and I grant that the game might have positive real-world value to some people; but I think this is a different question altogether:
Does the game (taken as an entire system, for its whole value proposition) have net positive real-world value to the human race? Further, could/should a game be engineered to be engaging, yet at the same time engineered to help people avoid the costly excesses of gaming addiction? (Here's another case: and these are just some of the extreme cases…) That fellow I knew who moonlighted playing Second Life? Of the half-working-days he put in at "work", he spent half of the remainder playing "Second Life" in his cubicle, building up his wealth and reputation in a fictional and very fragile world! It was a real shame he didn't get out and explore his "First Life" a bit more.

On the plus side of the equation; I sometimes wonder how many times the collision-avoidance skills I gained playing "frogger" have saved my skin or my vehicle in the real world!

FINAL EDIT: Why so many down-votes? (Not that I'm bothered, just curious.) I'm not talking down this excellent article (I'm genuinely interested in what has been written here.) I'm not saying computer gaming is wrong (I think some games have some positive value.) Do people think my remarks are wrong, or do people merely dislike what I have written? It's a genuine question: What do people get in the real world out of playing this game, apart from entertainment from escaping into a world where it appears easier and less risky to be a hero than it is in the real world?

 

[Pinko!]

Just in case someone sees all the press regarding EvE and decides to try the game out, here is some advice. Join a corp. Take a few days, figure out how to move around and what not, but JOIN A CORP. This is not a game like any other. You won't be able to solo until you are quite experienced. And ask a lot of questions.

 

[+Griz]

UserIDAlreadyInUse[/url]":1g36rqlo]I'd be curious to know, since the game's been running for years now, where they set the bar to determine when a behavior is a bug and to apply a fix, and when to leave a behavior alone to be used by the player base? There must be some intensely interesting discussions at CCP around that, and I'd be interested to know more about how they decide to classify each.

they seem to have a list of things that absolutely cannot be allowed to happen, like evading the space police after ganking someone in highsec, abusing the physics model to get into a POS that you don't have access to or bump people out of it, or generating trillions of isk by taking advantage of a poorly designed feature in faction warfare (those guys got temp-banned for a while and all the profits from their scheme were confiscated)

 

[DannibusX]

matthewslyman[/url]":1gm0w1ty]

Kyle Orland[/url]":1gm0w1ty]

matthewslyman[/url]":1gm0w1ty]

…a galaxy-wide battle that destroys $300,000 in real-world value…

I totally understand why in-game objects acquire psychological value for players; but this sentence was enlightening for me. Do some wall-street assets (sub-prime mortgage based securities, other assets "recovered" under government bail-out programs, perhaps even fully negotiable printed money) have only the same "real-world value" as these fictional objects; until the point when they have actually been redeemed against tangible real-world goods? We really are in deep trouble then…

The real-world value of EVE's in-game ISK is mainly measured in its ability to buy pilots license extensions, which can also be purchased for real money. A bit more on this here: http://massively.joystiq.com/2012/06/10 ... ng-points/

This comparison does place a theoretical real-world value on the in-game currency; but that is also "just psychological", is it not? (Unless of course you can sell ISK for real-world money, and transfer them in-game — in which case, the game could have real-world value to skilful players? I had a work-mate once who slept through half of his working days after moonlighting playing "Second Life" for a small profit.) So the game might have real-world value to a few skilful players… I might be cynical now (perhaps partly due to my experience of working "with" that one game-addicted loser who lost his girlfriend and cheated his employer), but I think this is a different question to this one: Does the game (taken as an entire system, for its whole value proposition) have net positive real-world value to the human race? Further, could/should a game be engineered to be engaging, yet at the same time engineered to help people avoid the costly excesses of gaming addiction? (Here's another case…)

You can't sell or trade in game ISK for real world currency. CCP Games would run into regulatory issues if that were allowed to happen. They'd need bank status or some equivalent.

One of the awesome things about EVE is that your skills train regardless of whether you're logged in or not. I've taken breaks from playing, only logging in to make sure my skill queue is full. I've never felt like I "needed" to play EVE and only play when I want to.

 

[lostalaska]

I had a friend get really deep into Eve, after he'd been playing it for a few years he finally convinced me to jump on too. I played it for about 18 months and while it was definitely something different from all the fantasy MMO's and Eve's in game market had a ton of depth and built in analytics I just never really got into the whole thing. At least in my experience it was far more fun to read about all the crazy giant space battles and people beefing over turf than it was to actually play the game. Still, every now and again I kinda want to play it, but what I really want is a sci-fi MMO where you're in the actually in the cockpit controlling the ship not just plotting points and telling it where to go. I'm kinda hoping Star Citizen will fill that niche for me.

 

[brainchasm]

One of my favorite memories of EVE was one instance of using a ship for...well not exactly what it was meant for.

Stealth bombers used to carry cruise missiles instead of torpedoes. They had a decent range, but you were still made out of paper mache. But with the right skills, and the right mods, you could fit out a covops to be able to push its cruise missiles to 175km or so. Took a while for them to get there, but that was ok.

In lowsec, gate guns only fire at you if you aggress and are within 150km. So, orbit the gate in lowsec at 151-155km, cloaked up, and wait for people autopiloting on their way out of lowsec into hisec. Uncloak, fire for effect.

I splashed some fun ships that way, and then got a handful of pirates to join me, and we had a lot fun.

Keep a character on the hisec side of the gate so they could jump in, loot, and jump back out.

It wasn't exactly frenetic action, but it was fun, and profitable.

CCP nerfed that ability though, by switching bombers to use torpedoes, which can't achieve the same range. But that also changed the role of said bombers. I was so bummed, I think that's when I went on hiatus...to lose something fun and easy to do solo ruined my limited playtime.

 

[Deleted member 250988]

DannibusX[/url]":1pdxu2ej] Currently a PLEX sells for $19.99 US and is available on the in-game market for 600 Million ISK.

Wow, last I played (2 years ago) a PLEX sold for 300m ISK. Did ship prices increase 100% as well, or are less people seling plex making them more saught after?

I just afk mined in highsec on an alt and it paid enough for two plexes, unless market prices increased this means more people are actually paying for their subscription.

 

[Darkness1231]

What I find interesting is the quantity of low life thugs in the majority of player stories. The phrase 'scum and villainy' comes to mind. Paying any amount of money to play with such is beyond me.

As far as fixing bugs, CCP has an aversion to it in my brief encounters with them. Getting them to acknowledge a bug is the hardest job. Actually fixing is best left to those with much more patience than I.

 

[DannibusX]

eco_nl[/url]":3n2fhdbp]

DannibusX[/url]":3n2fhdbp] Currently a PLEX sells for $19.99 US and is available on the in-game market for 600 Million ISK.

Wow, last I played (2 years ago) a PLEX sold for 300m ISK. Did ship prices increase 100% as well, or are less people seling plex making them more saught after?

I just afk mined in highsec on an alt and it paid enough for two plexes, unless market prices increased this means more people are actually paying for their subscription.

PLEX was around 450 mil a few months ago. EVE has still been growing population-wise, plus the Odyssey and Rubicon expansions have seemed to have brought back quite a few players and retained them. I'm also sure there's some inflation at work here.

Ships have increased in price, but not by much. Not that I can tell anyway.

 

[RoninX]

matthewslyman[/url]":2fani4zv]

…a galaxy-wide battle that destroys $300,000 in real-world value…

I totally understand why in-game objects acquire psychological value for players; but this sentence was enlightening for me. Do some Wall Street assets (sub-prime mortgage based securities, other assets "recovered" under government bail-out programs, perhaps even fully negotiable printed money) have only the same "real-world value" as these fictional objects; until the point when they have actually been redeemed against tangible real-world goods? We really are in deep trouble then…

Replace "some Wall Street assets" with "all forms of currency" and you would be correct.

 

[sunshinerag]

"How EVE Online builds emotion out of its <b>strict</b> in-game economy... it sure is a fantasy game... in the real world things are not strict at all.. minting stuff out of thin air is the norm ...

 

[Penforhire]

I played for about a year and I get a chuckle out of the 'spreadsheets in space' that the game can be. But it can also be about so many other things. Joining the Ars faction was one of the best choices I made. You guys were great to play with. And yes, losing that first Hurricane was painful and never-forgotten.

 

[Zomboe]

“This is a fundamental test from the universe” he recalls telling his wife. “If I make a spaceship out of nothing, then that spaceship isn’t real. If I bring something unreal into the game, the whole thing is gonna crumble. I might not get caught, but… I will always know the game isn’t real.”

It is impressive that this guy can appreciate the game to this degree, especially considering that he works on it (though I'd be curious to know in what capacity).

The sense of "realness" that he describes is what I tend to call "immersion" (maybe for lack of a better word). It is the feeling you get where you forget that you are playing a video game, a suspension of disbelief. It is actually amazing and inspiring that he would rather spend that much time to replace the lost ship rather than break that illusion.

I've played EVE a little but ironically I never felt really immersed in the game. Little things would bug me and remind me that it wasn't "real". For example, the great variation in player ship sizes is really just an illusion that feels like it is accomplished by simply moving the camera. The way that tiny ships and big ships (at least up to battleships) move is identical. Likewise combat always visually appeared "fake" to me, since the animations were the same regardless of whether an attack did damage or "missed".

It is amazing what a small team has been able to do, but it really feels like they took a lot of shortcuts that ruin the immersion for me.

Also, if I'm not mistaken, a player can buy PLEX for real money and then sell the PLEX for ingame currency. Although not as blatant as other games, I feel like support of this real money -> ingame currency exchange cheapens the game.

I also remember something about CCP trying to sell hats for real money, though they backed off on that... any updates on that one?

 

[kalzekdor]

Stories like this always make me want to try EVE, but I just don't have the free time to dedicate to an MMO these days. Too much of it is spent running and building my real world corporation, which is not nearly as fun. I've been working for the last 18 hours on one thing or another. :-/

 

[jimisawesome]

I will never play EVE but I love the stories that derive from EVE.

 

[lordcheeto]

I need to get back in to EVE Online. Unfortunately, all my stuff is in Fountain, which is now controlled by the enemy...

 

[brionl]

brainchasm[/url]":2lvyalxh]One of my favorite memories of EVE was one instance of using a ship for...well not exactly what it was meant for.

Stealth bombers used to carry cruise missiles instead of torpedoes. They had a decent range, but you were still made out of paper mache. But with the right skills, and the right mods, you could fit out a covops to be able to push its cruise missiles to 175km or so. Took a while for them to get there, but that was ok.

In lowsec, gate guns only fire at you if you aggress and are within 150km. So, orbit the gate in lowsec at 151-155km, cloaked up, and wait for people autopiloting on their way out of lowsec into hisec. Uncloak, fire for effect.

I splashed some fun ships that way, and then got a handful of pirates to join me, and we had a lot fun.

Keep a character on the hisec side of the gate so they could jump in, loot, and jump back out.

It wasn't exactly frenetic action, but it was fun, and profitable.

CCP nerfed that ability though, by switching bombers to use torpedoes, which can't achieve the same range. But that also changed the role of said bombers. I was so bummed, I think that's when I went on hiatus...to lose something fun and easy to do solo ruined my limited playtime.

Yeah, I totally see how fixing an exploit that lets you attack people with no retaliation could ruin your gameplay.

 

[Pyros]

The linked article about the huge battle was really enjoyable, I actually wish it had been a longer account.

 

[Zomboe]

new2mac[/url]":apqxijzv]I enjoy the occasional online game but EVE is for people with a screw or two rattling around in the head. It's a MASSIVE time sink. Biggest gaming time sink ever. It's seriously disturbing that people would commit so much time to it.

Having sunk a lot of time into earlier MMORPGs (UO, EQ, and ATITD), I came to realize that the way people play these games is basically like a job. In general the gameplay is boring, slow, not intense, with very long term payoffs. However this is also what makes the games so immersive, since amassing wealth and power does take a huge amount of work (though it's mostly just time).

Back when I was in school, I had enough time to put into those games and enjoyed that virtual life, but once I actually got a job I realized that I just didn't have the time. Unfortunately even the dullest MMORPG is probably more fun and interesting than the average job. In that sense I have a lot of respect for those who can make a living playing these things.

For a lot of people, living in these virtual worlds can be a lot more rewarding than living in the real world.

 

[killing_time]

Pyros[/url]":ntg3x18u]The linked article about the huge battle was really enjoyable, I actually wish it had been a longer account.

The site also has two podcasts on the subject, from the winner and loser's perspective.

Both good people in that they seem to be rational adults and both enjoy and accept the glitch hardships that come with the game as part of its charm.

whatever happens, happens.

 

[Misaniovent]

DannibusX[/url]":1gnug16x]

matthewslyman[/url]":1gnug16x]

Kyle Orland[/url]":1gnug16x]

matthewslyman[/url]":1gnug16x]

…a galaxy-wide battle that destroys $300,000 in real-world value…

I totally understand why in-game objects acquire psychological value for players; but this sentence was enlightening for me. Do some wall-street assets (sub-prime mortgage based securities, other assets "recovered" under government bail-out programs, perhaps even fully negotiable printed money) have only the same "real-world value" as these fictional objects; until the point when they have actually been redeemed against tangible real-world goods? We really are in deep trouble then…

The real-world value of EVE's in-game ISK is mainly measured in its ability to buy pilots license extensions, which can also be purchased for real money. A bit more on this here: http://massively.joystiq.com/2012/06/10 ... ng-points/

This comparison does place a theoretical real-world value on the in-game currency; but that is also "just psychological", is it not? (Unless of course you can sell ISK for real-world money, and transfer them in-game — in which case, the game could have real-world value to skilful players? I had a work-mate once who slept through half of his working days after moonlighting playing "Second Life" for a small profit.) So the game might have real-world value to a few skilful players… I might be cynical now (perhaps partly due to my experience of working "with" that one game-addicted loser who lost his girlfriend and cheated his employer), but I think this is a different question to this one: Does the game (taken as an entire system, for its whole value proposition) have net positive real-world value to the human race? Further, could/should a game be engineered to be engaging, yet at the same time engineered to help people avoid the costly excesses of gaming addiction? (Here's another case…)

You can't sell or trade in game ISK for real world currency. CCP Games would run into regulatory issues if that were allowed to happen. They'd need bank status or some equivalent.

One of the awesome things about EVE is that your skills train regardless of whether you're logged in or not. I've taken breaks from playing, only logging in to make sure my skill queue is full. I've never felt like I "needed" to play EVE and only play when I want to.

You most certainly can sell or trade in game ISK for real world currency. You just can't do it with CCP's knowledge or approval. There is a direct exchange rate because you can purchase ISK from CCP using real world currency, thereby adding ISK to the system.

To remove ISK from the system breaks the EULA, but it happens. EVE has a thriving blackmarket of character, equipment, and financial traders who use complex fronts and laundering schemes. I value my in-game persona far beyond what it is worth in the real world, but I know of people who have sold accounts and belongings for upwards of 10k dollars.

I can't recall the name but a number of the most powerful corporations in EVE are Russian. Take a look at this thread:

http://forums.f13.net/index.php?topic=16412.0

There are rumors of amounts far beyond 100k spent on this game, and there are rumors of individuals visiting the homes of players to cut cords and cables at inopportune times.

 

[Daemonworks]

EVE always struck me as being like taking on a job. Admittedly, a space-job. But still a job. Fun to hear the stories that come out of it though.

 

[Seraphiel]

I have a lot more fun reading about the things people do in this game than I had trying to play the game itself. I just don't have that much spare time.

 

[nondescriptusername]

Every time I see an article about Eve, I think about how much I love and miss it, and consider activating my old character again.

Then I remember that I don't have time a 2nd job. Admittedly, a fun and amazing dream job, but still, a 2nd job.

 

[KalaNag]

“This is a fundamental test from the universe” he recalls telling his wife. “If I make a spaceship out of nothing, then that spaceship isn’t real. If I bring something unreal into the game, the whole thing is gonna crumble. I might not get caught, but… I will always know the game isn’t real.”

It's funny, I have been playing Eve for 7 years now, and explaining eve-economy to the GFs of the moment never achieved any kind of satisfactory response from them >.>

 

[USMA56795]

Make no mistake: the mechanics in EVE are not fun. But this game is by far the most *satisfying* game I've ever played. Mechanically it's 95% preparation and 5% results, but the results are tangible, and grant a sense of accomplishment simply not found in other games.