GOP voters had higher excess deaths rates after COVID vaccine rollout

graylshaped

Ars Legatus Legionis
68,744
Subscriptor++
Counties have zero impact on federal elections, the closest thing would be house districts but so many seats change hands in any given election that a given seat is generally meaningless (unlike a Senate seat which is often critical given how nearly evenly it's been split in recent history but Senate seats are determined state wide).
The remaining Koch brothers would speak differently--or would spend differently. Start local to build larger. That was their milieu
 
Upvote
13 (13 / 0)

orwelldesign

Ars Tribunus Angusticlavius
7,322
Subscriptor++
Archer reference? If so, +1000000

ROFL, you have no idea that the Archer instance of this was, itself, a reference to Casablanca? The film?

I mean, I actually sort of get that, it's a classic, but, like, driving my dad's Corvair before he sold it, was a reminder that nostalgia is a helluva drug -- classics mostly don't hold up to modern standards. Mostly.

In any case, if you're curious, the Archer bit was itself a riff on Casablanca, which, for a movie from 1942, does hold up pretty well. It's noted as a classic, in fact. If you go to (or near) film school, weird movie geeks have been dissecting it as high art since, oh, probably January of 1943. And ever since. Really.
 
Upvote
16 (16 / 0)

Azhrarn

Ars Praetorian
492
Subscriptor
I'm not sure if this will ever happen, but it would be pretty fascinating to someday see any potential links between a partisan gap in excess deaths and a swing state going blue in any given election. I'm not sure if the data to correlate this exists, or if the effect is strong enough in any one place to actually manifest, but it would be a fantastic (if seemingly obvious) lesson in why policies that actively kill off your own voter base might be a bad idea.
Without minimizing the sheer number of deaths (that's like half the population of the Montreal island), its still a fraction of a percent of voters, so I'd say unlikely to swing a State one way or another... until we have a pandemic caused by a more deadly virus.
Considering how narrow the margin of victory can be in some districts, it may not flip a state blue, but it may well flip individual districts, and that can make quite a difference in the House.
 
Upvote
9 (9 / 0)
What I find amazing is how many of these stories came out about anti-vaxxer finding themselves dying in intensive care, and still the cohort of anti-vaxxers don't believe it.
They believe it. One guy I know put the spin on it of "god damn vaxxers, taking a dad away from his family because of his beliefs."
 
Upvote
9 (9 / 0)

freaq

Ars Scholae Palatinae
1,287
I'm not sure if this will ever happen, but it would be pretty fascinating to someday see any potential links between a partisan gap in excess deaths and a swing state going blue in any given election. I'm not sure if the data to correlate this exists, or if the effect is strong enough in any one place to actually manifest, but it would be a fantastic (if seemingly obvious) lesson in why policies that actively kill off your own voter base might be a bad idea.
Its called darwinism, or evolution ^^
Been going on for eons, it just takes a very long time.
 
Upvote
-17 (0 / -17)
155 million people voted in the 2020 election. Per the article, 1.1 million people have died from COVID in the USA (not all voters).

Without minimizing the sheer number of deaths (that's like half the population of the Montreal island), its still a fraction of a percent of voters, so I'd say unlikely to swing a State one way or another... until we have a pandemic caused by a more deadly virus.
If there was a more lethal virus, behaviour would change. Take something as infectious as original Covid and as lethal as Ebola.

There wouldn’t be a lockdown needed, people would be just too afraid to leave their homes. Republicans would queue up for vaccinations like everybody else. Death figures would go up to the level where republicans think it’s more important to save their own lives, plus a bit more since you can’t stop a disease instantly.

20 million dead, that is one in fifteen, that is someone in the five houses closest to you, that would get everyone vaccinated.
 
Upvote
7 (8 / -1)
The anti-vax movement is one of those Goldilocks conspiracy theories that unites the extremes of both ends of the political spectrum, for some time now. It would be fascinating if it was not so disheartening.
It’s the idiotic logic.

If we don’t do something things will go horrible.
We do something so they don’t go horrible.
They didn’t go horribly wrong so we didn’t need to do anything.
 
Upvote
11 (11 / 0)

DavidT256

Ars Centurion
342
Subscriptor
The anti science crowd did not just get themselves killed though. They also spread the disease, killing plenty of unrelated victims.

In Ohio, one of the first things to reopen was the bars. The Trumpkins continued to attend social gatherings, usually while ignoring mask requirements.

My mother died from Covid, about two weeks before she would have been eligible to get her first vaccine. She had been following all the safety recommendations, even though most people in her area weren’t taking the pandemic seriously.

It would not surprise me one bit, to learn that whomever had exposed her to the virus, had themselves picked it up while behaving like an idiot.
 
Upvote
36 (36 / 0)
It may be worse than this. In southeast Ohio and Appalachia in general, there are lots of registered Democrats who haven't voted for a Democrat in decades (to give you a hint why, they haven't voted for a Democrat since 1968 specifically).
Can you explain for people not in the USA (and for everyone under 60)?
 
Upvote
7 (7 / 0)
If there's one thing I've learned about these people from living 50+ years in the dead (no pun intended) center of deep red, they cannot abide being wrong. If they are proven wrong, instead of admitting it and moving on with better information, they will dig their heels in and double down on being wrong. It's very much a pride thing. They have invested so much (pride, emotion, etc.) in their decision/action that there is no way that pride will let them admit being wrong. It's just too embarrassing. They would rather die (no pun intended) than admit they were duped and/or are wrong about something, especially something like this in which they are so emotionally vested.
Remember that you don’t notice the ones who move on with better information. They will do it quietly. The ones digging in their heels will do it loudly and noticeable.
 
Upvote
7 (7 / 0)
Crossover voting in some states like New Hampshire is very easy, you can be registered an independent until primary day, choose a party when you walk in, pick up the appropriate ballot, vote, and there is a station to change your alliance back to independent after you vote. Some parties want that changed, so it might be different by the next election.
Can you explain that. I thought voting in the USA was secret, so you can register any way you like, then walk into a polling station and vote for whoever you want to vote for? And nobody would know?
 
Upvote
2 (2 / 0)
Can you explain for people not in the USA (and for everyone under 60)?
Prior to the 60’s, Democrats were the conservative party. As the civil rights movement got under way, southern Democrats split with northern ones, and the Republican Party steered right to snatch the rural white American vote up. Typically referred to as the “Southern Strategy”.

It’s when folks like Donald Trump say that it was Republicans that opposed slavery he isn’t wrong…if you take it literally and ignore the underlying beliefs of the parties and who has those values now. The reality is that progressives were against slavery, conservatives were for it. Described in ideology, there’s no change. But which party represented each ideology DID change.
 
Upvote
32 (32 / 0)
200 dead people maybe vote and republicans say that making it harder for every single american to vote is the answer.

200 dead kids killed by guns and republicans say nothing can be done.


Lets remember that the worst crime imaginable to republicans isn't cops blowing out the brains of an innocent kid, but instead the mere charging and trial of a rapist, fraud, thief, traitor, and pedo.
Just saying: The BBC took a published list of “dead” voters, checked the oldest 33 on the list, and in every single case found a voter who was well and alive, but also someone with the same name and born in the same week elsewhere who had died.

So if you compare lists of voters and lists of deceased people you will find matching names. Even matching names and birthdates. But not matching people. If your name is John Smith, and you are in your sixties , there will be another John Smith born on the same day and dead.

Sorry, in one case they found a 50 year old voter who had lived all his life with his dad in the same house, and the dad had just died. Dad and son had the same name. That guy got two invitations to vote and by mistake voted with his dad’s invitation. He only voted once.
 
Last edited:
Upvote
27 (28 / -1)

roman

Ars Tribunus Militum
2,830
Subscriptor
Can you explain that. I thought voting in the USA was secret, so you can register any way you like, then walk into a polling station and vote for whoever you want to vote for? And nobody would know?
A primary election is where voters can choose the person (of their party) to be on the ballot of the general election. Those votes are usually only cast by the people registered to that party.

This makes sense because if they allowed anybody to vote for a primary, an opposing party could deliberately hijack it by voting in a weaker candidate.
 
Upvote
7 (7 / 0)

GreyAreaUK

Ars Legatus Legionis
11,562
Subscriptor
There's only one rational explanation - Fauci went to Wuhan to engineer a virus that would preferentially kill Republicans!
Please, for the love of Zod add a '/s' to that, because there are a frightening number of utter imbeciles who will actually believe that.
 
Upvote
29 (29 / 0)

andygates

Ars Praefectus
5,816
Subscriptor
Yeah, I'm feeling the schadenfreude too, but we're only as strong as our weakest links. I strongly favor efforts to increase vaccination among the hesitant/resistant. I just don't have a clue how to do that.

Katharine Hayhoe has a whole thing on this, that the way to reach people was to identify with what they care about.

So maybe "everyone loves babies, nobody likes polio, get yer shots before visiting, gramps."
 
Upvote
-4 (2 / -6)
Post content hidden for low score. Show…

Carewolf

Ars Legatus Legionis
10,456
Can you explain for people not in the USA (and for everyone under 60)?
Both US parties used to both be more umbrella in before the 1960s. Back then the Southern Democrats were racists white supremacist, but the Northern Democrats more egalitarian. The Democrat party decided to ignore the southern voters at some point in the 60s to push for civil rights. The Republican party then decided to appeal to these Southern Democrats, and pick them up for an easy win. Those racists ended up controlling the entire Republican party in later decades.

It is sometimes called the big switch, because the racist party changed sides, but it was more that both sides had has racist element before, and that just became a new polarized subject. But if you look at election maps before and after, the Republican and Democrat strongholds basically flipped 100%.
 
Last edited:
Upvote
24 (24 / 0)

AdrianS

Ars Praefectus
3,915
Subscriptor
Failure to find fraud by the same people accused of being part of the problem is not exactly a ringing endorsement for that position.

I first became aware of electronic voting cyber security issues in an upper level CS course in the late '90s. I was shocked at the differences in how the same companies who designed banking equipment failed to build in similar and adequate security features into their voting systems - the stated reason being that it wasn't in the requirements.

Ever since, I've been following along whenever technical details come to light about current voting systems. From a cybersecurity perspective, the situation is pretty bad. Over and over, I've seen cases where election official spout assurances about security where there are subsequent investigations showing the same systems are susceptible to well-known vulnerabilities. Often, these officials don't seem to even understand what they are saying. Recent elections where officials claim that the machines are not connected to the internet since they don't have a web browser are particularly grating, since their procedures cover installing updates and using the network to upload their data to the state computers using the public IP infrastructure.

Given that in many locales a single political entity effectively controls access to and deployment of the the systems, compiling results, and investigating any complaints, it would be quite easy to skew the results with a small number of individuals. Whether or not people are prosecuted, the opportunities exist. Similarly, weak security opens an avenue for external parties to manipulate. Given the propensity of foreign actors to mess with even high-security DoD and other national security systems, I find the idea that they would not interfere with our democratic processes in such a soft target to be simply un-credible.

So are you another one of those fools that think Trump won in 2020?

All this waffle about undetected voter fraud leads me to believe you are.
 
Upvote
29 (29 / 0)

SixDegrees

Ars Legatus Legionis
48,632
Subscriptor
A primary election is where voters can choose the person (of their party) to be on the ballot of the general election. Those votes are usually only cast by the people registered to that party.

This makes sense because if they allowed anybody to vote for a primary, an opposing party could deliberately hijack it by voting in a weaker candidate.

Open primaries are actually quite common; you don't have to be registered with the party, but you are limited in voting for only one party; you can't double-dip and vote for a candidate in each party.

Shenanigans like voting in a loser during the primaries is definitely a thing. It's quite possible to have a lunatic win in the primaries (which favor that sort of thing thanks to low turnout) and get trounced in the general election as even their own party can't bring themselves to vote for them.
 
Upvote
8 (8 / 0)

Carewolf

Ars Legatus Legionis
10,456
Open primaries are actually quite common; you don't have to be registered with the party, but you are limited in voting for only one party; you can't double-dip and vote for a candidate in each party.

Shenanigans like voting in a loser during the primaries is definitely a thing. It's quite possible to have a lunatic win in the primaries (which favor that sort of thing thanks to low turnout) and get trounced in the general election as even their own party can't bring themselves to vote for them.
Not sure it only happens due to shenanigans. Pretty sure when (was it Alabama?) turned blue because the Republicans ran a pedophile candidate, it was the honest to god choice of the party.
 
Upvote
17 (17 / 0)

SixDegrees

Ars Legatus Legionis
48,632
Subscriptor
Not sure it only happens due to shenanigans. Pretty sure when (was it Alabama?) turned blue because the Republicans ran a pedophile candidate, it was the honest to god choice of the party.

Oh, sure, that definitely happens as well. When the dems do it, though, their intent and hope is that the gop candidate they boost will go on to lose; when goppers do it, they actually intend that candidate to win.

You're thinking of Roy Moore.
 
Upvote
10 (10 / 0)
I'm sorry, but if someone is willing to disregard their own health, in fact their own life, solely to agree with the prescribed political agenda, then that person is literally, willingly, enslaved.
That's great, seeing as how Republicans think slavery was actually beneficial to the slaves!
 
Upvote
18 (18 / 0)
They're still there, but it's a weird universe now. People who were not fully committed to antivax on the left saw what was happening on the right and very quietly left the movement. People who were fully committed have turned into this weird sounds-like-a-joke hybrid. Your neo-Nazi yoga instructors, your white nationalist afro-cuban drum circle groups. The anti-vax left isn't even the same as it once was, it's even more over-the-top cray cray than ever before.
Also, a lot(?) of hippies fell really easily into supporting fascism. The ones I knew had warning signs all along but still who would ever expect that
 
Upvote
-7 (5 / -12)
If there's one thing I've learned about these people from living 50+ years in the dead (no pun intended) center of deep red, they cannot abide being wrong. If they are proven wrong, instead of admitting it and moving on with better information, they will dig their heels in and double down on being wrong. It's very much a pride thing. They have invested so much (pride, emotion, etc.) in their decision/action that there is no way that pride will let them admit being wrong. It's just too embarrassing. They would rather die (no pun intended) than admit they were duped and/or are wrong about something, especially something like this in which they are so emotionally vested.
The reason they can't take being wrong, IMO, is they have made their political party a core aspect of who they are as a person. If they weren't Republicans then who would they be?
 
Upvote
13 (13 / 0)

Jiggers

Ars Scholae Palatinae
885
It may be worse than this. In southeast Ohio and Appalachia in general, there are lots of registered Democrats who haven't voted for a Democrat in decades (to give you a hint why, they haven't voted for a Democrat since 1968 specifically). Similarly in Florida, older voters may retain party affiliation from decades gone by. You register your political party once, and it stays the same unless you specifically go through the effort of changing it.

If you've ever wondered in polls who those x% of Democrats are who think Trump is the bee's knees, it's not all people messing with pollsters. Some of it is Dixiecrats who refuse to associate with the same party that ended slavery.

So if you use registration data, you'll get some Republicans mixed with your Democrats. Not so much the other way around.
Not to mention that what started as the Southern Strategy has matured to the point that most low income US people identify with the right now.
 
Upvote
9 (10 / -1)
Sure. But I don't understand the point of making the comparison. The death rate is going to be significantly impacted by things like immigration, general health, access to healthcare and housing affordability/availability for seniors. That is a lot to correct for; comparing the raw numbers doesn't seem useful without correcting for factors like these.
People are trying to be helpful to you, and you're just sealionining them. Go troll on X social or whatever instead of here
 
Upvote
21 (22 / -1)

Solidstate89

Ars Tribunus Angusticlavius
7,098
But what about the fact that none of these facts matter? As a matter of fact id like to point out that facts dont exist, and that this is just part of the globalists agenda to insert talking point here
Oh but facts do matter. Watch:

Fact: more republicans died of covid than democrats
Fact: Covid is fake/weapon from china/weapon from the U.S./developed by the U.S. in Ukraine with adrenochrome idk
Ergo: republicans died more because they were targeted due to their love of freedom or something, whatever.

Anyways, those are the facts and they matter.
 
Upvote
6 (7 / -1)