Epstein client list, does it exist or not?

Doomlord_uk

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All this time being investigated by the FBI, multiple anonymous witnesses, and you think somebody didn't compile a list?

Think again.
I had always assumed the 'client list' was something Epstein had compiled, presumably in a little black book somewhere, or on a note on his phone or something. Of course investigators compile lists, but not sure that's what people think they are clamouring for.
 

Stern

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And in the face of what cannot be anything other than flagrant duplicity from Justice your primary concern is... wagging your finger at people pointing out the lie? IDK if it's them who need to be better.
The finger is being wagged at those who with absolute certainty, and no evidence, claim it's the second part that's the lie. Why does anyone assume that the inveterate liars who flung fabricated accusations at anything and anyone when it suited them told the truth about that one thing that one time?
 

9600man

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I just assumed the list was some spreadsheet of payments or cost to traffic these women in and who was “using” them the most to make some cost analysis.

I don’t want to get into any of this and don’t really want to over think it either because it makes me sick. So I’ll keep it simple and then I’m outta here: If there’s a “list” it’s probably in some ledger form. Especially if Epstein thought of himself as a purveyor of immoral hedonistic services. Entertaining a number of people around the world you’d need to know their fetishes and preferences. Unless this guy has an eidetic memory, he’d need to have this information on hand somewhere.
 
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Thank You and Best of Luck!

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Yeah, it became pretty clear that they'll have to release her and arrive at a settlement for wrongful imprisonment the moment that the US Govt's position flipped on Epstein. That or also off her.

The Trump Administration will have to buy her silence one way or another, and her silence is definitely for sale.
 
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Let's hope she doesn't accidentally 'unalive herself' in prison.

"Ghislaine Maxwell is ready to testify in front of Congress about the Jeffrey Epstein files, according to the Daily Mail. Maxwell is currently serving 20 years for child sex trafficking charges and has been the only person arrested related to Epstein. Despite the convicted paedophile allegedly controlling a sex trafficking operation of underage girls, Maxwell is the only person who’s been charged. Several of Epstein’s victims have alleged they were trafficked to the paedophile’s wealthy friends and clients. A source revealed to the Daily Mail that Maxwell was “never offered any kind of plea deal” but that she would be “more than happy to sit before Congress and tell her story." “No one from the government has ever asked her to share what she knows. She remains the only person to be jailed in connection to Epstein, and she would welcome the chance to tell the American public the truth,” the source said."

https://www.theaustralian.com.au/ne...s-list/video/7680ace199683dd77100eaa602c9f085
 
I have to wonder if she has set up some deadman switches just for such a thing. I'm betting she is maneuvering for a pardon and huge (discrete) settlement. Saying she's ready to talk in front of congress is just a way to turn the screws.
I'm trying to think of any deadman switches that would have any sort of meaningful effect on the current world stage.

I'm sure there are some, but can't think of any. As pointed out earlier, really the only thing that might put shade on someone like Trump is video evidence of being on the receiving end of an interracial same-sex encounter. That would be almost impossible to explain to deflect. But that wasn't really the Epstein game.
 

DarthSlack

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Isn't this a boon to Ghislaine Maxwell, whose lawyers can now surely get her out of prison, as the allegations are now 'clearly' false because Trump says so?

"There's no list, nothing ever happened, that's what the FBI says, so why am I on three squares a day?"

No, not really. She was convicted of getting girls for Epstein and nobody is challenging the notion that Epstein was a predator. Bondi is claiming that there's nothing implicating anyone besides Epstein, which doesn't put Maxwell in the clear.
 

RefrigeratorCo.

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Remember all those qAnon memes, "The Storm is Coming... Donald Trump is going to slaughter the perverts of AMERICA!!"

Then there's a picture of him posing in front of a thunder cloud, mean faced, staring straight at the viewer as to come off intimidating.

Now, all these years later this is going down as one of the most horrific examples of narcissistic projection ever.

The clip of Alex Jones crying is getting blasted all over CNN.

I'm not surprised he's mental, but even I can't believe how disorganized his own team is.

"Guys the files are on my desk. Our entire team has them in their hands ( posing in front of the white house with big smiles ) and were going to release them. Were not going to release them to protect people. They don't exist, actually. BTW, just to set the record straight, Barrack Obama made this whole thing up."

And they said Elon Musk was the one on drugs... like, jesus christ.
 
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wireframed

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An explicit client list with neat names, dates and locations, as well as which girls were abused? Probably not.

Strong evidence showing who were at his island at a time were women and girls were abused, and where the express purpose appeared to be to do such molesting? Yeah, I think so.

The mere fact Trump has seemed to be a bit panicky about the whole deal, makes me think there’s fire somewhere in all the smoke because it fits his behaviour when he knows he’s fucked up and about to be caught out.
 
An explicit client list with neat names, dates and locations, as well as which girls were abused? Probably not.
How about just a list of who his professional clients were? People like billionaire Leon Black who payed him $158 million for estate planning. Also, I believe there were DVDs from surveillance recordings with the names of men and girls they were with written on them, never released. The original search warrant in florida, which apparently was incredibly tightly written to exclude lots the cops might "happen upon" during a search, never released. Ro Khanna is calling for a public vote on the release. I hope the Dems realize the opportunity they have and back this fully.

View: https://x.com/RoKhanna/status/1944243029981770104
 

Lemonhead78

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I think I got it. And I think it was genius.

Ok. So. The think tanks and right intelligence knew about Trump's past with Epstein (and more). Nearly the minute he entered the scene. They knew what was possible. They also knew Bill was probably in there. So they created this whole pedo fantasy they all got in to. It was all obfuscation. They allowed their followers to push this weird narrative to now.

I think this narrative was to make anyone accusing anyone of the crime as crazy. When it came to fruition, you would just be a lair if you believed a man took advantage of a 13-17 year old woman, as Trump obviously has. Many times. And in just despicable conditions.

And everyone knows it. If someone has proof, they own the world.
 

Shavano

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I had always assumed the 'client list' was something Epstein had compiled, presumably in a little black book somewhere, or on a note on his phone or something. Of course investigators compile lists, but not sure that's what people think they are clamouring for.
Who, specifically, do you think is clamoring for that and only that?
 
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Shavano

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Yeah, it became pretty clear that they'll have to release her and arrive at a settlement for wrongful imprisonment the moment that the US Govt's position flipped on Epstein. That or also off her.

The Trump Administration will have to buy her silence one way or another, and her silence is definitely for sale.
They had direct evidence that Maxwell procured underage women and groomed them for Epstein to abuse, and IIRC she participated in the abuse as well.
 

Shavano

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Let's hope she doesn't accidentally 'unalive herself' in prison.

"Ghislaine Maxwell is ready to testify in front of Congress about the Jeffrey Epstein files, according to the Daily Mail. Maxwell is currently serving 20 years for child sex trafficking charges and has been the only person arrested related to Epstein. Despite the convicted paedophile allegedly controlling a sex trafficking operation of underage girls, Maxwell is the only person who’s been charged. Several of Epstein’s victims have alleged they were trafficked to the paedophile’s wealthy friends and clients. A source revealed to the Daily Mail that Maxwell was “never offered any kind of plea deal” but that she would be “more than happy to sit before Congress and tell her story." “No one from the government has ever asked her to share what she knows. She remains the only person to be jailed in connection to Epstein, and she would welcome the chance to tell the American public the truth,” the source said."

https://www.theaustralian.com.au/ne...s-list/video/7680ace199683dd77100eaa602c9f085
She said whatever she wanted to say in her defense at her trial. The government is under no obligation to believe whatever lies she wants to tell to shift blame onto only the dead guy.
 
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m0nckywrench

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I'm trying to think of any deadman switches that would have any sort of meaningful effect on the current world stage.
Privately reminding everyone on the list they should inform the FBI of what they know (or similar BS polished with legal help) which is really a legal way to remind them to avoid exposure by helping her cause. Someone should have enough to lose to beg POTUS for help.

Powerful people are given their power and money by others in expectation of reward. They are beholden to their supporters without whom they'd be in deep shit even were they honest, and even Trump must have associates he values. Squeeze the lesser criminals who have weaker defenses.
 

Lycanthropos

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Rich white men having sex with underage girls on a secluded tropical island. We've seen this story before...but I don't think it'd hurt Trump very much at the end of the day, it might even boost his numbers with certain groups.
Agreed, unfortunately. I have my doubts there's anything in those files, list or no list, that could actually damage Trump at this point.

My best guess on why he's so nervous about all of this is either there's something that will hurt his ego (i.e. proof of an unfortunate kink), or he's realized his base won't accept anything except a full release of a 'list' that he knows doesn't exist. Personally doubtful he's worrying about his support, given everything else they've accepted from him, but can't deny it's a possibility.
 
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NervousEnergy

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She said whatever she wanted to say in her defense at her trial. The government is under no obligation to believe whatever lies she wants to tell to shift blame onto only the dead guy.
I get the disdain, but also consider that in what is alleged to be a huge evil operation of rich white men preying on underage girls the only person in jail is a woman.
 

whm2074

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Agreed, unfortunately. I have my doubts there's anything in those files, list or no list, that could actually damage Trump at this point.

My best guess on why he's so nervous about all of this is either there's something that will hurt his ego (i.e. proof of an unfortunate kink), or he's realized his base won't accept anything except a full release of a 'list' that he knows doesn't exist. Personally doubtful he's worrying about his support, given everything else they've accepted from him, but can't deny it's a possibility.
Maybe the "List" won't hurt Trump personally but might end end hurting his closest supporters. Epstein couldn't have gotten all those girls on his own, he had to have a whole network of people doing that.
 

Doomlord_uk

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Who, specifically, do you think is clamoring for that and only that?
Not really sure I understand your question. To clarify: there is a mythical 'Epstein client list' which people are clamouring for, which I seriously doubt exists. That would be the one Epstein supposedly compiled, for reasons passing understanding. Then, as someone pointed out somewhere, investigators also compile lists and I think there is almost certainly a list of suspects based on testimony from victims and witnesses who've been interviewed so far. That, however, is not THE 'client list' that conspiracy theorists have been fantasizing about. I have no idea who's clamouring for the FBI's list.
 

Doomlord_uk

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Epstein couldn't have gotten all those girls on his own, he had to have a whole network of people doing that.
From the documentary I watched, quite some time ago now, it was Maxwell who did that, and I think they also paid the girls to introduce other girls too. Supposing 'a whole network' of people in a sex trafficking operation to feed the appetite of just one man is a bit much, and even if from time to time they wanted a whole bunch of girls available for trips to the island I'm still not sure they needed a network to pull that off.

Or has there been actual testimony about a wider network? I guess I could have missed it.
 

iPilot05

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or he's realized his base won't accept anything except a full release of a 'list' that he knows doesn't exist.
That thought had crossed my mind early on in this whole drama. Kind of like Hunter's Laptop(TM) that everyone seems to have in their hot little hands but yet nobody can produce any evidence of.

While there's zero chance this will hurt Trump (let alone sink him), it would be a supreme irony if what gets him in the end is his own wild conspiracy theories come back to bite him.
 

Lycanthropos

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That thought had crossed my mind early on in this whole drama. Kind of like Hunter's Laptop(TM) that everyone seems to have in their hot little hands but yet nobody can produce any evidence of.

While there's zero chance this will hurt Trump (let alone sink him), it would be a supreme irony if what gets him in the end is his own wild conspiracy theories come back to bite him.
One can dream that's what finally takes him down
 
which should be followed up with
"Why don't these Republicans want you to see the Epstein files? What are they hiding?"

This is exactly what the Dems should be doing.

"List", files, it hardly matters. Trump & the Right have consolidated so much power already and this can disrupt that, at basically little cost. You don't even need to be a part of any conspiracy to demand the administration follow through on its promise and at least show consistency on it ("they exist, nevermind no, okay yes but Obama")

This is an attack vector that cannot be ignored. I get some consider it too "trashy", but any moment you can get this administration to play defense is a big win considering how much power they've consolidated. Beggars can't be choosers.

The BBB passed and I doubt you're going to see Congress do anything else. Midterms are over a year away. I'm not really seeing a downside here.
 

JustReadingArs

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Even the grifter Candace Owens is on the trail...
“The Epstein scandal is definitely terminal cancer to Trump’s MAGA movement,” she said in the video, which was first highlighted by Mediaite. “There’s no question about it.”
Let's hope metastatic and not operable.
“It seems like you think your base is stupid. That’s how I feel,” Owens said. “I feel like Trump thinks his base is stupid, or, again, because I don’t think he’s pressing send on these messages, the people around him think that Trump is stupid.
So she's finally waking up to reality, they are that stupid, and Trump is as well.
The former supporter turned critic of Trump said last month that she’s “embarrassed” after campaigning for the president during the 2024 election cycle.

“He’s been a chronic disappointment. And I feel embarrassed that I told people to go vote for him because this wasn’t going to happen, and it is happening,”
Leopards face-eating party for one 👋
 

Shavano

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Even the grifter Candace Owens is on the trail...
“It seems like you think your base is stupid. That’s how I feel,” Owens said. “I feel like Trump thinks his base is stupid, or, again, because I don’t think he’s pressing send on these messages, the people around him think that Trump is stupid.
So she's finally waking up to reality, they are that stupid, and Trump is as well.
If only she'd take that obvious next step. When Trump thinks his base is stupid, he's right about that at least. If he thinks that about Candace Owens, he's right about that too.
 

etr

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I doubt there is or ever was a clear Epstein "client list".

Let's consider the Sports Illustrated Swimsuit issue. How many receipts were there for that? As far as I know, there are none. The receipts were for subscriptions to Sports Illustrated. There are probably folks who would have subscribed if the swimsuit issue was not a thing. It's at least plausible enough that those for whom the swimsuit issue was a deciding factor can claim that it wasn't.

That's probably more or less how Epstein's sex trafficking worked (to the extent it went beyond serving his own appetites). Here's another analog. Suppose a businessperson has a paid box at a major sports stadium. They invite actual and potential clients to games for relationship building. Such extravagances are not friendly with ethics policies, but they absolutely happen. Suppose the businessperson has the box, but not clients to entertain on a given date, so they invite friends. That happens, too. By and large, nothing here is a huge legal issue (assuming you handle the tax implications honestly). How studious do you think the who and when of such events are recorded, especially by folks like Epstein?

Let's say the businessperson decides to cross some lines. They stick with inviting...certain...clients from out of town and hire escorts to join the event. Let's say they don't leave an obvious paper trail, and only do this some of the time. How do you tell between the case from the last paragraph and this one if you're investigating?

Or, let's say they do invite escorts every time. Is there enough of a paper trail to properly prove it?

Replace the box at the sports stadium with a private island and the escorts with carefully groomed young ladies that are probably not getting any direct recompense, and you probably have Epstein's arrangement. You can probably tie some folks to them, and even tie some of them to an island trip. It's probably devilishly hard to prove what took place on the island when they were there. Your case probably lives and dies on the words of the young ladies abused, and there are high dollar attorneys happy to take payment to tear into such victims and simultaneously push juror buttons to convince them to vote for acquittal.

Beyond that, the trail is cold at this point. If there was solid evidence to go after those who partook of the entertainment Epstein offered, those investigating at the time probably avoided collecting it or "lost" it when deciding not to prosecute (or in the years since).

Bondi could provide a list of identified Epstein associates, but note that there was not enough evidence to bring charges against any of them. (That would be against Justice Department policy, I'm sure, but I'm also sure Bondi does not care about that.) However, she can't plausibly do that and exclude Trump from that list--which would end Bondi's MAGA career one way or another.
 

Dr Nno

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Regarding the MAGA internal war, I think this is an accelerated version of the process that transformed the Republican Party into a Trump cult. Republican leaders in the past 20 years targeted the low information voters, which slowly climbed the ranks of the party and ended up forming the core of the leadership. Now some of this leadership is in the know about how to manipulate their base (making them rage against the Deep State), and some of this leadership is with the base, raging against the Deep State.

My guess is that the leaders will align with Trump's point of view sooner rather than later, but the rift with the base may still increase for a few days. They can't leave the cult though, so they will end claiming that they never wanted to see that list anyway.

Regarding the list (as a physical object created and kept by Epstein), I think that IF hehad such a list, it was more an insurance against his "friends" than anything. There is a general level of distrust among those people that is incredible. They don't rely on friendship to get something, but only on fear of reprisal against their respective reputation. Epstein was more likely thinking about how to avoid any hostile action from his "friends" by pointing at this list (real or not) and saying "Stay nice to me, because it would be a shame if people knew what you did there". But Epstein did not need to have a real physical list, the threat was sufficient to keep everyone in line.

IF the list is just a compiled report from the investigations, then it probably contains a lot of plausibly deniable nothingburgers, and there is no reason to publish it, and no reason to not publish it either. It's just the McGuffin of the current News Cycle.