Apple TVs and HDMI weirdness

[daGUY]

Try to wrap your head around this one…

I sit down in my home office last night to watch TV and press the button on the Apple TV’s remote to turn it on. The box wakes up and the TV turns on, but the screen says “no signal.” Hm, I must be on the wrong input (sometimes it fails to switch automatically). Nope: I’m on HDMI 1, which is for the Apple TV. I turn everything off and back on: still no signal. I unplug and reseat the HDMI cable on the Apple TV’s end: no signal. I unplug and reseat the HDMI cable on the TV’s end: no signal. I completely unplug the Apple TV from power and plug it back in: no signal.

What the…? Everything worked perfectly as of yesterday, and I haven’t physically touched any part of this setup in years. Did the HDMI output on the Apple TV box itself die?

Well, I happen to have a second Apple TV out in the living room. So I switch both boxes around to see what happens. Neither Apple TV works when plugged into the TV in my office, while both Apple TVs work when plugged into the TV in the living room. So clearly both boxes are fine; the problem must be the HDMI cable, right?

I put everything back how it was. Still no signal. Okay, let’s go find a different HDMI cable…

I go digging around in my closet, and of course I’ve got every possible cable known to man except for an HDMI cable. Ugh. Well, the only other thing I can do is take the HDMI cable I’m currently using with the external monitor for my laptop. But before I swap that out, just for shits and giggles, let’s try everything one more time just to confirm it really isn’t working…

And…it works! The Apple TV home screen comes up and somehow everything is fine now. But this is with the exact equipment that hasn’t been working for the past hour, and after I already unplugged/reseated/restarted everything multiple times and it didn’t help! All that’s happened at this point is that about five minutes had passed while I was looking for a different HDMI cable to use. I hadn’t even turned the TV off in the meantime.

So in summation: it stopped working without any physical changes being made to my setup; it continued not working even after physically resetting everything; and then it started working again after making no physical changes. I’ve got no explanation

 

[japtor]

HDMI-CEC is powered by hopes and dreams. Or a RNG lottery where it'll mysteriously break all of a sudden, where the only fix is another RNG lottery where it'll mysteriously fix itself whether you've changed everything or nothing at all.

 

[daGUY]

It would certainly seem that way! I recall one other similar incident a few years ago, and the only way I could get it to work again was by swapping which end of the HDMI cable was plugged into which device. What sense does that make?! Again, it had been fine for years up until that point. And then that worked totally fine for another few years until yesterday. Bizarre.

 

[japtor]

Yeah troubleshooting CEC stuff is just, uhh...well, good luck!

I just do the simplest thing and power cycle everything involved, then if that doesn't work, while everything is "off" (or whatever the closest state stuff can get) I switch off at the power strip and wait a few seconds before switching back on...then decide on some magical sequence of turning things on and cross my fingers.

 

[un]

HDMI and CEC is like trying to find the combinations of SCSI cables a scanner likes used to be. Our LG TV will sometimes not turn on with the remote if it receives a power off from the PS5 if all of the PS5, the Apple TV, and the receiver are plugged in. Unplug any of them and there's no problem.

 

[Cranioclast]

I find that the AppleTV sometimes just doesn't boot the UI, even when it's the device that kicks off the CEC. I have to hit the home button multiple times before it fully turns on.

 

[cateye]

My AV stack (original AppleTV 4K, ancient Denon receiver, XBox Series X, LG CX TV, Nintendo Switch 2) all works well, CEC included. Everything turns on and off in sync, as it should. As a result, I'm terrified to change any of it for any reason. Swapping the Switch 2 dock in place of the OLED Switch dock that had been there previously felt like daring to pull a bottom log out of a huge Jenga tower.

 

[dal20402]

I find that the AppleTV sometimes just doesn't boot the UI, even when it's the device that kicks off the CEC. I have to hit the home button multiple times before it fully turns on.

A "me too" on this one; 2017 ATV 4K talking to 2021-vintage LG webOS TV.

 

[GaitherBill]

I've had some HDMI cables just straight up not work, or be flakey. Then I'll switch to another one and things will be fine.

I don't think your average HDMI cable is manufactured to very strict tolerances.

The first cable I used on my 4k home theater setup, with an ATV 4k, would blackout randomly.

 

[japtor]

I find that the AppleTV sometimes just doesn't boot the UI, even when it's the device that kicks off the CEC. I have to hit the home button multiple times before it fully turns on.

Pretty sure I've seen this occasionally too, 2nd gen 4K on a newer Samsung which definitely has its own weirdness going on at times which doesn't help the confusion. And oh yeah and an older receiver in the mix.

My AV stack (original AppleTV 4K, ancient Denon receiver, XBox Series X, LG CX TV, Nintendo Switch 2) all works well, CEC included. Everything turns on and off in sync, as it should. As a result, I'm terrified to change any of it for any reason. Swapping the Switch 2 dock in place of the OLED Switch dock that had been there previously felt like daring to pull a bottom log out of a huge Jenga tower.

And did the ol Switch 2 switcheroo last year too! CEC didn't break thankfully. The ALLM option was new to me though. Automatically turned on game mode which was nice I guess...other than the fact that game mode had its own default picture settings which were totally divorced from my previous settings. And/or may have been HDR that switched things around. In any case that was a hell of a time going through all the menus and switching modes/inputs to make sure things were consistent between everything.

 

[daGUY]

I find that the AppleTV sometimes just doesn't boot the UI, even when it's the device that kicks off the CEC. I have to hit the home button multiple times before it fully turns on.

Yeah, it’s definitely flaky. I’ll hit the button on the Apple TV remote and either:

1. Nothing happens at all
2. The Apple TV turns on, but nothing else does
3. The Apple TV turns on and the TV set turns on, but the active input doesn’t change
4. The Apple TV turns on, the TV set turns on, and the active input changes

#4 is of course how it’s supposed to work, but it only does that maybe 70% of the time. So I’ve gotten into the habit of just mashing the button a bunch of times when I sit down to watch TV, since I never actually know how many times I need to press it to get everything set up!

 

[greatlakeexpat]

I find that the AppleTV sometimes just doesn't boot the UI, even when it's the device that kicks off the CEC. I have to hit the home button multiple times before it fully turns on.

Mine does that. It's on, as I can see its white LED status, but nothing happening.

ATV->Denon AVR->TCL TV. Sometimes everything turns on, but the TV. I just chalk it up to CEC being butt.

I miss my Harmony remote that's mostly given up the ghost. I know about Sofabaton, but they seem to get mixed reviews.

 

[dal20402]

Yeah, it’s definitely flaky. I’ll hit the button on the Apple TV remote and either:

1. Nothing happens at all
2. The Apple TV turns on, but nothing else does
3. The Apple TV turns on and the TV set turns on, but the active input doesn’t change
4. The Apple TV turns on, the TV set turns on, and the active input changes

I don't ever get #3, but I get all the others, and your estimate of #4 happening 70% of the time seems about right.

 

[motales]

Mine works to turn stuff on and go to right inout but won’t shut tv off

 

[Rocketpilot]

Our Apple TV 4K has possibly died, can't really tell. But it now just has a blinking power light, Apple logo comes up, reboots, starts again. I did think it was HDMI cable related but from a little googling, apparently it requires a return to the store to factory reset it or they give you a new one? Absurd.

So long story short I've just ordered the cheapest Fire Stick and will wait for the presumably completely perfect next-gen model to solve all my problems in life.

 

[Hap]

I have quite a few TVs, ones hooked direct to an LG TV always work (won't change input). Samsung just won't work. Won't work with my Denon AVRs either. However, if I have never had and issue with it not working at all. I've had more HDMI cables go bad than anything, which is why I have a very large closet with a wall of mostly cable bins - including one with probably close to 50 HDMI cables.

 

[japtor]

Holy cow. Damn. Hap's setup(s) continues to amaze.

 

[dal20402]

That closet appears to be bigger than any single floor of my townhouse.

 

[VirtualWolf]

Yeah, it’s definitely flaky. I’ll hit the button on the Apple TV remote and either:

1. Nothing happens at all
2. The Apple TV turns on, but nothing else does
3. The Apple TV turns on and the TV set turns on, but the active input doesn’t change
4. The Apple TV turns on, the TV set turns on, and the active input changes

#4 is of course how it’s supposed to work, but it only does that maybe 70% of the time. So I’ve gotten into the habit of just mashing the button a bunch of times when I sit down to watch TV, since I never actually know how many times I need to press it to get everything set up!

My favourite* is when I turn the Xbox on (via the controller) and the Apple TV turns on as well and switches to the Apple TV input. At which point when I turn the Apple TV off, it turns the TV off too, which I then need to turn back on.

 

[Evil Lair]

I have an older 4K tv that does this constantly, both with the old Windows htpc and current Mac Mini. The only solution is to cut power to the tv, wait for for all the power supply clicking to stop, and reconnect. Nearly always works after that. Its so bad I have the tv on a separate power strip so you just have to flip the power switch instead of pulling plugs. On occasion it will get a signal but at a wrong extremely low resolution requiring the same fix.

 

[Bonusround]

For years I enjoyed perfect CEC harmony. Probably even took it for granted.

But the eventual addition of a sound bar and HDMI splitter (to support a TV backlight) resulted in an odd situation: the television responds to TV-sleep and shuts down, but no longer powers-up when the TV wakes. Okay, fine.

Powering-up the television does wake the TV. Good enough, right? It would be save for every sixth or seventh time, when the TV waking up triggers the TV to power down, OF COURSE.

Magnificent, ain't it?

 

[orionquest]

Yeah aTV does have some HDMI gremlin's. I've seen 2 main things happen

• turn on with no interface sounds, or very low
• turn on and audio is working but corrupted somehow, listening to any media file sounds like everything in a low volume echo box.

Both these issues require a restart of the aTV and tv and is usually fine.

 

[Thinine]

I've also seen audio issues when the HDMI connection is very slightly loose, so there are a few things that can go wrong.

 

[bigsnake499]

I am still using a first generation 4K Apple TV. It worked perfectly with my 2015 Samsung TV and my JBL soundbar until the TV itself started developing white spots and it was time for a new TV this time a Sony smart TV (you really can't get anything else). I tried and generally succeeded in limiting the Sony from thinking it is the boss but it sometimes the CEC sequence of waking up does not always succeed. So I turn everything off again and it usually works the second time. I have no idea why it works most of the time and then it does not work the time times it does not. The whole boot up sequence seems to take twice the time it used to with the Samsung.

Now don't let me get started with Airplay and Home Sharing...

 

[Hap]

Now don't let me get started with Airplay and Home Sharing...

AirPlay is hot garbage, but the wife and I use Home Sharing extensively and rarely have a problem. What’s the issue?

EDIT: I do have the Home Sharing Macs reboot nightly at 2am and auto launch iTunes. That has resolved most issues

 

[ant1pathy]

I both Airplay and Home Share all the time without issues. Another anecdata .

 

[almostinsane]

If your network isn't allowing mDNS or Bonjour to function then any and all of the Apple networking technologies will fail. HomeKit stops, Airplay runs away, Home Share, etc.

 

[Hap]

My issues with AirPlay are all around stability, even if it's 100% ethernet (and there is absolutely no way my ethernet is not fast enough). It just stops shortly into a video. Home Share will play for days (or well, it will play from server boot until server shut down).

The one annoying issue is if I pause Music Videos in the Computer app and wait >30 minutes - I have to kill the computer app to get it to do anything. This is 100% repeatable across a number of TVs and has been for years.

 

[Bonusround]

Honest question: what are you playing that requires home share and the Computer app? DRM'd content?

 

[Hap]

Apple purchased DRM stuff mixed with a health amount of format shifted stuff. I do NOT like going multiple places for my media. All in one place is a must.

 

[bigsnake499]

AirPlay is hot garbage, but the wife and I use Home Sharing extensively and rarely have a problem. What’s the issue?

EDIT: I do have the Home Sharing Macs reboot nightly at 2am and auto launch iTunes. That has resolved most issues

Where to begin. I do have my music (around 18,000) songs on an old (2010 vintage) Mac Mini. I play my music stored on it either through the Computers app on the AppleTV or through my iPad than then airplays it either through my Denon receiver or through the JBL sounder or through an AirPort Express on the patio.

The Mac mini/Computers connection works pretty well most of the time until the Mac mini does not appear in the Computers app. I have to manually reboot the Mac mini to re-establish the connection.

The Mac mini->iPad->airplay target usually fails when I try to connect to the Mac mini through Home Sharing. The library appears on the menu of libraries but cannot be connected to. If by chance I connect to the library then the stream will drop off at some time.

I have also tried to connect to the library through the Control app on the iPad and then airplay . It works intermittently just like Home Sharing.

Maybe rebooting the Mac mini at 2:00 nightly will clear some of these problems. Maybe switching to my M1 Mac mini would also cure it. But the M1 does not have enough storage and it will be have to be expanded through external storage. Then I might have to deal with sleep problems.

 

[Hap]

Where to begin. I do have my music (around 18,000) songs on an old (2010 vintage) Mac Mini. I play my music stored on it either through the Computers app on the AppleTV or through my iPad than then airplays it either through my Denon receiver or through the JBL sounder or through an AirPort Express on the patio.

The Mac mini/Computers connection works pretty well most of the time until the Mac mini does not appear in the Computers app. I have to manually reboot the Mac mini to re-establish the connection.

The Mac mini->iPad->airplay target usually fails when I try to connect to the Mac mini through Home Sharing. The library appears on the menu of libraries but cannot be connected to. If by chance I connect to the library then the stream will drop off at some time.

I have also tried to connect to the library through the Control app on the iPad and then airplay . It works intermittently just like Home Sharing.

Maybe rebooting the Mac mini at 2:00 nightly will clear some of these problems. Maybe switching to my M1 Mac mini would also cure it. But the M1 does not have enough storage and it will be have to be expanded through external storage. Then I might have to deal with sleep problems.

I'm running the latest version of macOS that would run iTunes (finder sharing is bunk). I agree, Home Sharing to anything other than direct to an TV is bunk in my experience.

Rebooting nightly and killing the computer app have resolved all my Home Sharing issues except one. Periodically iTunes will ask for the account password before it will share. These are headless Macs, so requires sitting down at another computer and firing up ARD or a CometPro.

 

[ant1pathy]

Where to begin. I do have my music (around 18,000) songs on an old (2010 vintage) Mac Mini. I play my music stored on it either through the Computers app on the AppleTV or through my iPad than then airplays it either through my Denon receiver or through the JBL sounder or through an AirPort Express on the patio.

Try using the Remote app to control the Mini and have it directly AirPlay cast to all of your destinations.

 

[bigsnake499]

Try using the Remote app to control the Mini and have it directly AirPlay cast to all of your destinations.

I have been using it. I finally got a satechi USB C hub and added a 500GB 2280 SSD to the M1 Mini. I will be retiring the 2010 Mac mini. Remote app on the iPad works pretty reliably but then it quits for some unknown reason. I cannot get my iPhone's Remote app to work at all to control Apple Music or to do Home Sharing, it just does not work. It does not show the libraries under either Remote app or Home sharing. Apple if you are reading these chats please make one Remote app for AppleTV, iPad, iPhone, and Mac and test the crap out of it. What you have now does not work.

 

[Zod]

I find that the AppleTV sometimes just doesn't boot the UI, even when it's the device that kicks off the CEC. I have to hit the home button multiple times before it fully turns on.

This is my daily experience.