Apple, Google, and Amazon team up for joint smart home standard

Will this be the one smart home standard to rule them all or just another entry?

Read the whole story

 

[Haravikk]

While I'd love for IPv4 to be in a position that it can realistically stop being supported, is Google planning to finance my ISP (Virgin Media in the UK) finally replacing its fleet of shitty-ass routers with ones actually capable of running IPv6 at all?

Although I'm in a position where I can (and am) using a separate router with my ISP supplied horror-show acting entirely as a modem, I'm not sure I'm going to be in the majority of people who will do this; most are going to still be using ISP supplied devices, most of which aren't going to use IPv6.

So what's the point of a standard that's already choosing to be unsupportable with most consumers?


It doesn't even really make sense; smart home devices are going to be behind a router no matter what anyway, and most won't (or shouldn't) be remotely accessible, and those that are just need a way to ensure they register a port that can be routed their way.

For a local network IPv6 local addresses are an unnecessary extravagance, and certainly not a widely supported one.


So yeah, I hope day two of this CHIP process is slapping Google upside the head and reminding them the dumbest thing a smart home standard can do is not work on most people's networks.

 

[Morhyn]

While I'd love for IPv4 to be in a position that it can realistically stop being supported, is Google planning to finance my ISP (Virgin Media in the UK) finally replacing its fleet of shitty-ass routers with ones actually capable of running IPv6 at all?

Although I'm in a position where I can (and am) using a separate router with my ISP supplied horror-show acting entirely as a modem, I'm not sure I'm going to be in the majority of people who will do this; most are going to still be using ISP supplied devices, most of which aren't going to use IPv6.

So what's the point of a standard that's already choosing to be unsupportable with most consumers?


It doesn't even really make sense; smart home devices are going to be behind a router no matter what anyway, and most won't (or shouldn't) be remotely accessible, and those that are just need a way to ensure they register a port that can be routed their way.

For a local network IPv6 local addresses are an unnecessary extravagance, and certainly not a widely supported one.


So yeah, I hope day two of this CHIP process is slapping Google upside the head and reminding them the dumbest thing a smart home standard can do is not work on most people's networks.

There will very likely be a bridge/hub/whatever they want to call it like the Hue or SmartThings devices that handle this situation via neighbor discovery. That device can likely support both v4 and v6. Just a guess

 

[TechW]

Since security is probably a total after thought for this effort I can't wait to see how this gets used in passive aggressive neighbor squabbles.

Years ago I would agree with you. However, I have to think that along with the attraction of having the devices compatible with each other, security would be, at least, the second major reason for the alliance given the poor security track record the IoT manufactures have at this time. Basically, bake in high security from the start that all IoT manufacturers must use if they are to be compliant with the standard. This would be a great marketing pitch. Compatibility across platforms and strong security.

 

[Decade]

And I can download a smartphone app so they can let me know when loads are done, or nearing completion, because apparently I can't remember than when I started the load the machine said it would take 45 minutes, and that I would somehow miss the chime from the adjacent room.

Already heard from other comments that highly educated Ars readers do in fact forget the washer because they are busy and have other things on their mind, that they in fact do not stay next to the washer when it is running, that connected washers are good for load shifting, that connected devices are good when dealing with disabilities.

I would like to add that my washer/dryer in fact do not take 45 minutes. It’s a fancy high-efficiency set from LG that adjusts its times based on the detected load. When it says 45 minutes, it can take 45 minutes, or it can take 40, or even upwards of an hour if the load is especially soggy. Notifications would be helpful so I would know when the load is done.

 

[OrangeCream]

Everybody loves to post that XKCD comic whenever something like this is tried. It's like they're saying "Ha, it's so futile. Don't even try to improve anything, losers!" (And I'm sure Munroe never intended to say that with the comic.)

But this has the biggest names in smarthome tech on board, and if this really happens, there's no way that this would just be another "standard" for the pile. This would be THE standard, period. This would be akin to the adoption of standard-gauge railways: everyone gets to use the same "tracks" to travel down, and everyone benefits.

Neither Apple nor Google is a big name in smarthome tech. They are big names in tech that have dabbled, poorly, in smarthome tech. They have not been able to translate their overall influence into home automation. Google in particular is just thrashing around killing its own products, as usual.

I'm not sure I understand why you think that. I'll use Apple Pay as an example, though:
2012, Apple Passbook released
2014, iPhone 6 has NFC and Apple Pay is launched
2015, Apple Pay launched internationally, Passbook renamed to Wallet, and added support for Loyalty cards via NFC
2017, Apple adds Apple Cash to send payments via iMessage
2019, Apple releases the Apple Card, integrating directly into it's Wallet app

It's a multiple year process, right? 7 years from nothing.
So Homekit was released in 2014, but also requires support from vendors to provide products to integrate into it. It hasn't been 7 years yet, but Homekit does still exist, still get new product integrations, and seems to work fine. Not sure what you mean here.

Of the long established smarthome protocols, there is Zigbee, Z-wave, UPB, and Insteon. Only one of those four is onboard. Getting Zigbee into the standard looks like an aggressive move to push out its competitors, not an attempt to work with them.

Zigbee is a protocol, though, not unlike USB, Wifi, or Bluetooth, so it makes sense for Alexa, Homekit, and Assistant to interoperate with it. Also, Z-Wave was purchased by Silicon Labs, which is featured prominently in the article. Insteon was one of Apple's HomeKit launch partners.

You bring up Z-Wave, for example, which has been on the market since 1999, it's first products in 2003, 6 products in 2006, and now 2,600 interoperable products available now, in 20 years. Good, right? In comparison, 5 years later, Homekit only has several dozen compatible products. I imagine in 15 years Apple's dabbling will also balloon into thousands of products too. Amazon will aggressively release their own products to seed the ecosystem, and others will follow.

Of the new wave of smarthome devices, the most successful has been Philips Hue. Also not onboard.

Why do they need to be? They already work with Homekit, Alexa, and Assistant.

I definitely see some advantages to interoperability and standardization here, but the effort isn't broad enough and isn't bringing in the companies that are actually important.

I'm not sure I agree with the assessment. Adding a low power protocol into the largely Wifi (high power) standards seems smart. Likewise the list of supporting partners seems pretty big when you consider that Z-Wave was purchased by Silicon Labs.

So of your list of 'big' industry companies, only UPB is really missing from the list of support, since Z-Wave/Silicon Labs, Zigbee, and Insteon all already support HomeKit, Alexa, and Google Assistant, or are a part of this new coalition.

 

[TomViolence]

Google, Amazon, Apple, and Zigbee. Three of these companies' business models depend on locking up your data to lock you into their products and ads. Sounds like a winner, just not for the user.

 

[Junglist]

My issue is I want my home automation to function when my internet goes down. none of the current smart devices can function without internet access. I do have a small pile of wireless remotes for secondary light switches but they use regular 900mhz waves and have short range and are primarily used to control christmas lights.

if I could find a local only app that did wifi light control I might switch to that. but those don't exist unless you roll your own

I don't know about the wifi light, but Zigbee devices still work if your internet is down. Philips Hue and IKEA Trådfri are both using the Zigbee standard. Pretty sure Z-wave devices also work without internet.

 

[O/Siris]

If I were at all interested in bringing IP-accessible monitoring devices into my home, I'd check to see if this standard includes unlimited access by law enforcement.

 

[GreenMeters]

Of the long established smarthome protocols, there is Zigbee, Z-wave, UPB, and Insteon. Only one of those four is onboard. Getting Zigbee into the standard looks like an aggressive move to push out its competitors, not an attempt to work with them.

Of the new wave of smarthome devices, the most successful has been Philips Hue. Also not onboard.

I definitely see some advantages to interoperability and standardization here, but the effort isn't broad enough and isn't bringing in the companies that are actually important.

Hue supports multiple networks, including Zigbee. Philips has been part of Zigbee board of directors forever, just now under the Signify name. Silicon Labs, another Zigbee board of directors member (and of Thread Group, too), bought Z-Wave from Sigma. The field is just getting more incestuous.

 

[GreenMeters]

I love that they continue to ignore AllJoyn and the Open Connectivity Foundation.

AllSeen ate itself after whichever big tech company dropped out, Microsoft or whatever, now just squabbling as a task group within OCF. As for OCF, don't think these same conversations with a lot of the same players weren't happening with OCF leadership too. But at the end of the day, OCF's data model is a toy and they bring no significant deployed base or coherent ecosystem to the table. The only reason they've ever been at the table is no one wanted to totally discount Intel or Microsoft.

 

[agpob]

I look forward to Google abandoning this project in 1-2 years.

That's ok because all the software will be unable to support updates after 6 months! You know, just like current smart home devices... talk about blatant, in-your-face, planned/built-in obsolescence!

 

[OrangeCream]

Google, Amazon, Apple, and Zigbee. Three of these companies' business models depend on locking up your data to lock you into their products and ads. Sounds like a winner, just not for the user.

Well, fundamentally you exchange money for a good or service. Are you going to allege that as theft?

"Three of these companie's business models depend on stealing your money or information."?

 

[Starbeamrainbowlabs]

Not sure I'm seeing the appeal of such a project lead by a bunch of companies who I don't trust with my data.

What about Mozilla's Web Things gateway?

 

[Virtual Horus]

Anyone questioning the usefulness of smart home technology has not been disabled. When my leg was badly broken, it was so nice being able to control a few things (mainly lights) with my voice. Had I broken my leg 6 months earlier, that time would have been much more frustrating.

My wife broke her hip right after giving birth. I added a some smart switches, a smart lock on the front door and a camera door bell. Maybe we would have survived without it, but it made life tons easier than it would have been.

Now I just like it cause I’m lazy. I’ve also replaced almost every light switch in the house and a few plugs (Christmas tree on).

 

[aphoid]

One notable name missing from that list is Belkin with their WeMo devices. I have several of their things including in-wall switches and they seem to work with both Google Home/Nest and Alexa well. I also have their HomeKit bridge, and that has never really worked reliably.

 

[theradicalmoderate]

Home assistants and ancillary wares are reaching saturation. No doubt this holiday season was a huge drop in sales over last year because most of the people who wanted them bought them last year and fleshed out the rest over the following months.

You're forgetting the building and remodeling markets. So far home automation has been restricted mostly to add-ons, but the market for building this stuff into the home infrastructure is huge, and won't be enabled until standards emerge. It's one thing to have five different standards for multiplugs, but it's quite another to convince a developer to put in an order for several million smart receptacles, or wire up lighting on centralized controllers, or put in smart HVAC registers and sensors in every room. Same thing with manufacturers of smart refrigerators, washing machines, and dryers. Or contractors that want to build fast charging for EVs into garages, and enable them to take advantage of demand pricing of electricity.

The built-in and white-goods markets are worth hundreds of billions of dollars. But nobody's going to commit to them until they know that the infrastructure is stable enough that the investments won't get stranded.

Existing standards do all which is necessary and can be extended, but instead the angle presented is "we need a new standard".

Again, I've left the industry, so I'm not completely up to date, but last time I checked, (about three years ago), there were a whole bunch of things that didn't have traction in the IETF:

1) Extremely low-power equipment standards. It's hard to automate stuff that has to run on a battery for most its entire life, and built-in stuff with its own line power supply only takes you so far.

2) Mesh network standards, which go with low-power.

3) Security for all of this stuff is a huge problem, and very poorly addressed.

4) Peering and registration standards aren't great for a bunch of this stuff.

 

[jdale]

Google, Amazon, Apple, and Zigbee. Three of these companies' business models depend on locking up your data to lock you into their products and ads. Sounds like a winner, just not for the user.

Well, fundamentally you exchange money for a good or service. Are you going to allege that as theft?

"Three of these companie's business models depend on stealing your money or information."?

It's theft (or at least fraud) if they don't properly disclose what they are going to take.

 

[OrangeCream]

Google, Amazon, Apple, and Zigbee. Three of these companies' business models depend on locking up your data to lock you into their products and ads. Sounds like a winner, just not for the user.

Well, fundamentally you exchange money for a good or service. Are you going to allege that as theft?

"Three of these companie's business models depend on stealing your money or information."?

It's theft (or at least fraud) if they don't properly disclose what they are going to take.

Well, sure, so of that three, Amazon and Apple take your money in exchange for a product, and the 'lock into their product' is more or less the entire history of US capitalism. At least when you us an iPhone + HomeKit, you can expect a good 5+ years of operation, and if you're lucky, you can keep using your system for 10 years without issue.

Amazon has a fairly good track record, barring their Fire Phone.

With Google you really don't have any guarantees, between obsolete Android handsets, Google killing products or services.

As for information... Google hasn't (yet) done anything wrong, even if it seems creepy.

 

[NPC-Ars]

Yeah NO.. I'm not going to trust anything they come up with to run my house. Thanks.

 

[johnsonwax]

The big problem is configuring things, and for the users to put together both a useable interface, and linking stuff. And of course support for multiple users. And we need light sensors, that can help determine if we should turn on the light.

That's not the big problem, that's really the only problem for consumer adoption. I'm skeptical we'll see a fully open source solution here, mainly because of the security issues.

We've already seen the result of the willingness of consumers to plug whatever rando insecure devices into their homes. This is why the app store curation is necessary - normal people aren't going to review source code, and it's a genuine good thing that you don't need to be the size of Microsoft or Oracle to get shelf space to put software in consumer hands.

So if Zigbee/Z-Wave/Apple are trying to restore trust in home automation by cleaning up the security side, it's going to limit to some degree the ability of hobbyists to plug into that service at the ease of use level that they are aiming for.

 

[co-lee]

Looks to me like most people in this thread are either responding as curmudgeons (who needs all this fancy internet stuff anyway, back in my day, we dried our clothes by walking up hill both ways in the snow) or
as enthusiasts (here's this great hack I figured out, here's a whole pile of hardware and software to acquire and learn in order to still be able to give voice commands to your home if your internet goes down).

This market will not matter if its just geeks and enthusiasts. It needs to just work. And it doesn't today. I'm an enthusiast and dabbler and I've got a fair amount of home automation set up: lights, thermostat, logic for simulating us being home if we're gone, external temperature based control of heat tape wrapping the pipes under the house so they don't freeze, sprinkler and external lighting integration.

But, honestly, while I quite enjoy it and think the whole setup is cool, things absolutely don't "just work". It was a hassle to learn enough to even start and then to get working, my setup needs ongoing maintenance, and I have to plan on replacing basically all the hardware in 5 years.

This market won't happen if people have to write code, evaluate different communication protocols, buy new hubs, figure out how to install Home Assistant on a pi they don't own, etc. If this is still the domain of home automation, well, we can go ahead and geek out but it won't matter. And if the market does happen, angels on the head of a pin arguments about z-wave vs. wifi integration, about local control vs. cloud based control , router configuration to create a separate subnet, etc. will be fondly remembered and totally irrelevant ...

 

[doozaim]

A spyware vendor, e-commerce monopolist and a company that vehemently opposes right to repair walk into a bar.

 

[johnsonwax]

1) Extremely low-power equipment standards. It's hard to automate stuff that has to run on a battery for most its entire life, and built-in stuff with its own line power supply only takes you so far.

2) Mesh network standards, which go with low-power.

3) Security for all of this stuff is a huge problem, and very poorly addressed.

4) Peering and registration standards aren't great for a bunch of this stuff.

Yep to all. Discovery/security balance is particularly a problem. I'm pretty convinced that the problem is at the router level - that a modern router that gives you the granularity of control necessarily is impossible for normal consumers to configure. It's why I was disappointed that Apple got out of that market. Google has made some good progress in replacing that role, but there's still some huge gaps.

BT doesn't have the range necessary and has some real problems with pairing, and while remotely secure is not locally secure.

This is why I think Apple will be pushing hard on 802.15.4z. No IP assignment, it potentially addresses local security given appropriate implementation (the time of flight calculation can determine if the signal is being relayed if it deviates by more than a few centimeters) but that requires correct implementation on each end. Discovery is potentially easier. My guess is that Apple will even do an AR implementation where it shows your devices overlayed on live video, so if you want to configure a light bulb, you can either tap it with your phone (proximity) or tap on it in the video. No need to type in a MAC address or whatever. Requires lots of correct implementation details, though.

There are some usability potential here as well. Because it can quite accurately locate an object in space, someone with an Apple Watch could potentially point at a lamp and ask Siri to turn it on, rather than addressing it by a label, etc.

 

[johnsonwax]

Neither Apple nor Google is a big name in smarthome tech. They are big names in tech that have dabbled, poorly, in smarthome tech. They have not been able to translate their overall influence into home automation. Google in particular is just thrashing around killing its own products, as usual.

Of the long established smarthome protocols, there is Zigbee, Z-wave, UPB, and Insteon. Only one of those four is onboard. Getting Zigbee into the standard looks like an aggressive move to push out its competitors, not an attempt to work with them.

Of the new wave of smarthome devices, the most successful has been Philips Hue. Also not onboard.

I definitely see some advantages to interoperability and standardization here, but the effort isn't broad enough and isn't bringing in the companies that are actually important.

Willing to bet 90% of all home automation is interfaced through an Apple or Google product. Apple was 0% of the payment market until they weren't. Nobody in the US at least could solve that space without Apple because the iPhone was the only viable interface for achieving payment ubiquity in the US. Apple was always going to be the party that chose the winning solution because system level integration was critical. Same will go for home automation.

I'm sure your 90% is true *if* you count systems where the only Apple or Google product is a phone running their OS. But that's a sucker's bet when 99% of phones are iOS or Android. I would not characterize Apple or Google's contribution to, say, a Hue system as meaningful just because the app runs on their OS.

My argument is that consumer ubiquity requires more than the Hue app, for the same reason that app based payment systems all failed - they lacked the immediacy of implementation that a device level solution can provide (why Alexa has been successful) and they lack the integration with non-Hue devices. That's where HomeKit and alternatives come in. Plus, it fucking sucks to have all of these different ways to register and configure devices based on each manufacturer.

Don't get me wrong, Hue is great - they made huge improvements to the home automation space, and I think HomeKit is good for the same reasons, but I don't think either made sufficient improvements for truly mass adoption.

So in order for Hue or anyone else to get there, to *really* get there, just as payments couldn't really get there until it was a device level implementation. It needs to be a system level iOS/Android thing. That's just unavoidable.

 

[OrangeCream]

Neither Apple nor Google is a big name in smarthome tech. They are big names in tech that have dabbled, poorly, in smarthome tech. They have not been able to translate their overall influence into home automation. Google in particular is just thrashing around killing its own products, as usual.

Of the long established smarthome protocols, there is Zigbee, Z-wave, UPB, and Insteon. Only one of those four is onboard. Getting Zigbee into the standard looks like an aggressive move to push out its competitors, not an attempt to work with them.

Of the new wave of smarthome devices, the most successful has been Philips Hue. Also not onboard.

I definitely see some advantages to interoperability and standardization here, but the effort isn't broad enough and isn't bringing in the companies that are actually important.

Willing to bet 90% of all home automation is interfaced through an Apple or Google product. Apple was 0% of the payment market until they weren't. Nobody in the US at least could solve that space without Apple because the iPhone was the only viable interface for achieving payment ubiquity in the US. Apple was always going to be the party that chose the winning solution because system level integration was critical. Same will go for home automation.

I'm sure your 90% is true *if* you count systems where the only Apple or Google product is a phone running their OS. But that's a sucker's bet when 99% of phones are iOS or Android. I would not characterize Apple or Google's contribution to, say, a Hue system as meaningful just because the app runs on their OS.

I don't know how you can say that; I'm assuming you saw the growth of the App Store ecosystem from 2006 onward; are you going to argue that "Apple's contribution to the Fitbit ecosystem as meaningful just because their app run on their OS"?

Or put another way, lack of iOS and Android support will kill any kind of lifestyle product today given, as you put it, 99% of phones are IOS or Android.

Zigbee/Z-Wave/etc did fine until now relying only on iOS or Android app or a dedicated remote/hardware controller, but at this point they also need extensive Homekit, Alexa, or Assistant support if we're going to see home automation be as ubiquitous as, say, Wifi.

Can you imagine Wifi existing today if Apple and Microsoft didn't support it in the year 2000?

 

[ewelch]

I guess I'll never be the target market for smart appliances. I just don't see the point.

The last year has seen a good deal of remodeling in the Degree's household, including new stove, 'fridge, washer and dryer, and other niceties. Not one of them is smart - although every company involved was hawking smart models. I particularly didn't understand the "smart" washer and dryer model - for nearly a grand more than we paid for our dumb set, you get a washer that uses WiFi to tell the dryer immediately next to it that it's getting near the end of a load, so it should turn itself on in prep to receive it. Just turn itself on. Which basically means light up the control panel - it's not like it even pre-heats or anything, just lights up. And I can download a smartphone app so they can let me know when loads are done, or nearing completion, because apparently I can't remember than when I started the load the machine said it would take 45 minutes, and that I would somehow miss the chime from the adjacent room.

I mean, I just don't see the point of any of this stuff, or understand what purpose it serves.

Hold on - there's some rotten kid out on my lawn I need to go yell at.

While I agree with you on your washer/dryer scenario, there are plenty of things that can make life easier, more convenient, and can actually make our homes safer. Turning on lights in different scenes based on what we're doing for example. Walking up stairs with my hands full of laundry, I can turn the lights on with my voice in seconds. Or even automatically by just walking up stairs after sunset.

Warming up the house as I approach can save money by keeping the temperature appropriately lower while we're all gone. Setting off an alarm if someone breaks in the house while I'm playing cards 20 miles away. Feeding the dog if I'm late home.

The answer to your question is, try expanding your imagination to what is possible.

 

[deet]

I guess I'll never be the target market for smart appliances. I just don't see the point.

The last year has seen a good deal of remodeling in the Degree's household, including new stove, 'fridge, washer and dryer, and other niceties. Not one of them is smart - although every company involved was hawking smart models. I particularly didn't understand the "smart" washer and dryer model - for nearly a grand more than we paid for our dumb set, you get a washer that uses WiFi to tell the dryer immediately next to it that it's getting near the end of a load, so it should turn itself on in prep to receive it. Just turn itself on. Which basically means light up the control panel - it's not like it even pre-heats or anything, just lights up. And I can download a smartphone app so they can let me know when loads are done, or nearing completion, because apparently I can't remember than when I started the load the machine said it would take 45 minutes, and that I would somehow miss the chime from the adjacent room.

I mean, I just don't see the point of any of this stuff, or understand what purpose it serves.

Hold on - there's some rotten kid out on my lawn I need to go yell at.

Wait until you get a smart appliance that refuses to shut up. I thought I had shut down my range's wifi (along with the fridge - the builder loaded the house before we bought it). After spending several hours fiddling and searching I found the correct incantation. Which worked until I shut the power off. Then it popped up all happy and chatty again.

Another couple of hours of quality time with a pair of wire cutters will do the job, but what a PITA.

What I'm worried about is the fucking *everything* will be 'connected' (and chatty and insecure).

Oh well, wire cutters are cheap and I'm retired...

Just blackhole the traffic at the router, or stick it in a sandboxed/whitelisted-sites-only DMZ if it doesn't like being blackholed.

One trick I also like to use, above and beyond putting IoT devices on a separate 'untrusted' network, firewalled away from my main machines, is to assign static IPs, and then not give them default gateways.

(edit: without a default gateway, a device can talk on the local net, but it can't get to the broader internet. Firewalling it is better, but this is a trivial thing that will keep most devices off the main 'Net.)

This trick won't work with IPv6, in which stateless auto-configuration and router discovery is mandatory. You will need to turn to a firewall.

Edit: I completely take this back. There are plenty of ways an isolated IPv6 LAN segment could work.

 

[TenacityOverAptitude]

But outside of some niche areas, electricity in the US is just really too cheap to bother. I'm not going to postpone laundry until 2AM to save 2 cents/kWh...

For PG&E in northern CA, the cool season difference indeed is only 2 cents/kWh. However, the high season difference is 10 cents/kWh and up. If you have a EV plan you can save nearly $0.40/kWh off the awful peak rate of $0.52/kWh!

 

[YetAnotherAnonymousAppellation]

But I can totally see, "Hey Siri, open the garage door", "Hey Siri, preheat the oven to 300 degrees", "Hey Siri, lock up the house", and related automatic options, like adjusting the thermostat, turning on and off lights, setting the water heater, etc, too.

And what happens when the neighbourhood thief shouts, "Hey Siri, open the garage door" from outside your house? Or the neighbourhood kids shout, "Hey Siri, preheat the oven to 550 degrees" as a prank?

 

[Hichung]

SSID this will live on: 7MARY3AND4.

I see another CHiPs fan.

 

[jdale]

Neither Apple nor Google is a big name in smarthome tech. They are big names in tech that have dabbled, poorly, in smarthome tech. They have not been able to translate their overall influence into home automation. Google in particular is just thrashing around killing its own products, as usual.

Of the long established smarthome protocols, there is Zigbee, Z-wave, UPB, and Insteon. Only one of those four is onboard. Getting Zigbee into the standard looks like an aggressive move to push out its competitors, not an attempt to work with them.

Of the new wave of smarthome devices, the most successful has been Philips Hue. Also not onboard.

I definitely see some advantages to interoperability and standardization here, but the effort isn't broad enough and isn't bringing in the companies that are actually important.

Willing to bet 90% of all home automation is interfaced through an Apple or Google product. Apple was 0% of the payment market until they weren't. Nobody in the US at least could solve that space without Apple because the iPhone was the only viable interface for achieving payment ubiquity in the US. Apple was always going to be the party that chose the winning solution because system level integration was critical. Same will go for home automation.

I'm sure your 90% is true *if* you count systems where the only Apple or Google product is a phone running their OS. But that's a sucker's bet when 99% of phones are iOS or Android. I would not characterize Apple or Google's contribution to, say, a Hue system as meaningful just because the app runs on their OS.

I don't know how you can say that; I'm assuming you saw the growth of the App Store ecosystem from 2006 onward; are you going to argue that "Apple's contribution to the Fitbit ecosystem as meaningful just because their app run on their OS"?

Or put another way, lack of iOS and Android support will kill any kind of lifestyle product today given, as you put it, 99% of phones are IOS or Android.

Zigbee/Z-Wave/etc did fine until now relying only on iOS or Android app or a dedicated remote/hardware controller, but at this point they also need extensive Homekit, Alexa, or Assistant support if we're going to see home automation be as ubiquitous as, say, Wifi.

Can you imagine Wifi existing today if Apple and Microsoft didn't support it in the year 2000?

My point is, anyone can write an app that runs on iOS and Android. If you have a home automation hub that is on wifi, you can make an app for iOS and Android to work with it. (The other devices don't have to be on wifi, as long as they have some means of communicating with the hub.) At that point it's just software running on an arbitrary handheld device.

Actually building functionality beyond that into the OS has the real danger of taking away choices. I'm not going to buy hardware that only works with iOS, or hardware that only works with Android, because that takes away my choices in the future -- and it could be an especially big mistake if I'm building it into a house I hope to someday sell. It's better if the hub is OS agnostic.

Voice assistants and web services have started to broaden the scope and requirements of what it means to be device agnostic, so hopefully Apple and Google working together will create some space for interoperability without lock-in.

 

[OrangeCream]

But I can totally see, "Hey Siri, open the garage door", "Hey Siri, preheat the oven to 300 degrees", "Hey Siri, lock up the house", and related automatic options, like adjusting the thermostat, turning on and off lights, setting the water heater, etc, too.

And what happens when the neighbourhood thief shouts, "Hey Siri, open the garage door" from outside your house? Or the neighbourhood kids shout, "Hey Siri, preheat the oven to 550 degrees" as a prank?

You don't use "Hey Siri" it seems.

Nothing happens. Hey Siri only works for the owner of the registered voice. If they can activate Siri, they sound just like me.

I mean, that is no different than asking what happens if you take a photo of your neighbor's keys and then create copies at the locksmith.

 

[OrangeCream]

Neither Apple nor Google is a big name in smarthome tech. They are big names in tech that have dabbled, poorly, in smarthome tech. They have not been able to translate their overall influence into home automation. Google in particular is just thrashing around killing its own products, as usual.

Of the long established smarthome protocols, there is Zigbee, Z-wave, UPB, and Insteon. Only one of those four is onboard. Getting Zigbee into the standard looks like an aggressive move to push out its competitors, not an attempt to work with them.

Of the new wave of smarthome devices, the most successful has been Philips Hue. Also not onboard.

I definitely see some advantages to interoperability and standardization here, but the effort isn't broad enough and isn't bringing in the companies that are actually important.

Willing to bet 90% of all home automation is interfaced through an Apple or Google product. Apple was 0% of the payment market until they weren't. Nobody in the US at least could solve that space without Apple because the iPhone was the only viable interface for achieving payment ubiquity in the US. Apple was always going to be the party that chose the winning solution because system level integration was critical. Same will go for home automation.

I'm sure your 90% is true *if* you count systems where the only Apple or Google product is a phone running their OS. But that's a sucker's bet when 99% of phones are iOS or Android. I would not characterize Apple or Google's contribution to, say, a Hue system as meaningful just because the app runs on their OS.

I don't know how you can say that; I'm assuming you saw the growth of the App Store ecosystem from 2006 onward; are you going to argue that "Apple's contribution to the Fitbit ecosystem as meaningful just because their app run on their OS"?

Or put another way, lack of iOS and Android support will kill any kind of lifestyle product today given, as you put it, 99% of phones are IOS or Android.

Zigbee/Z-Wave/etc did fine until now relying only on iOS or Android app or a dedicated remote/hardware controller, but at this point they also need extensive Homekit, Alexa, or Assistant support if we're going to see home automation be as ubiquitous as, say, Wifi.

Can you imagine Wifi existing today if Apple and Microsoft didn't support it in the year 2000?

My point is, anyone can write an app that runs on iOS and Android. If you have a home automation hub that is on wifi, you can make an app for iOS and Android to work with it. (The other devices don't have to be on wifi, as long as they have some means of communicating with the hub.) At that point it's just software running on an arbitrary handheld device.

Actually building functionality beyond that into the OS has the real danger of taking away choices. I'm not going to buy hardware that only works with iOS, or hardware that only works with Android, because that takes away my choices in the future -- and it could be an especially big mistake if I'm building it into a house I hope to someday sell. It's better if the hub is OS agnostic.

Good news! CHIP is OS agnostic, insofar as it's supposed to work with Android, Alexa, and iOS!

Voice assistants and web services have started to broaden the scope and requirements of what it means to be device agnostic, so hopefully Apple and Google working together will create some space for interoperability without lock-in.

Good news! Google and Apple are working together as partners in CHIP!

 

[johnsonwax]

But outside of some niche areas, electricity in the US is just really too cheap to bother. I'm not going to postpone laundry until 2AM to save 2 cents/kWh...

For PG&E in northern CA, the cool season difference indeed is only 2 cents/kWh. However, the high season difference is 10 cents/kWh and up. If you have a EV plan you can save nearly $0.40/kWh off the awful peak rate of $0.52/kWh!

Do you find that $0.52/kWh rate to be motivating? Because that's by design. Installing solar and conservation gets really attractive really quickly at that rate.

 

[Azethoth666]

I look forward to Google abandoning this project in 1-2 years.

That is not the google way.

First they need to start 4 more variations on it that, as the article mentions, are overlapping and competing with each other. Only then does the culling start, and it does not stop until they have lost all market share and reason.

 

[gregvp]

... (commercial devices still needing a license). ...

Aaaand that killed it, right there. Has Apple learned nothing from the Firewire debacle?

 

[OrangeCream]

... (commercial devices still needing a license). ...

Aaaand that killed it, right there. Has Apple learned nothing from the Firewire debacle?

Is there a cheaper alternative?

Because their Made For iPod and Made For iPhone licensing didn’t kill the accompanying accessory ecosystems.

Likewise the developer licenses needed to publish in the App Store.

So they seem to know what works given the 20 years of success between iTunes, iPods, iPhones, and Apps.

 

[Kawag]

This is great news!

I’ve been trying to get in to the automation game, but HomeKit devices are incredibly expensive. A simple wall light-switch is literally €100 (for every switch in the house you’re easily looking at a €1000 bill). Alexa-compatible devices are waaaaay cheaper, but I don’t trust Amazon to really care at all about security or privacy.

A universal standard with wide industry backing could really bring those prices down, and Apple‘s involvement reassures me that security won’t be an afterthought. Apple are not going to replace HomeKit with something that is not at least as secure as their current offering.

To me at least, Apple have so far shown themselves to be trustworthy when it comes to security and privacy. That’s not to say they are angels (there is plenty about their business that I disagree with), but their commitment to software updates, on-device processing, differential privacy and use of encryption is worthy of praise.

 

[croc123]

And, in another section of ARS we find this:

"Nearly 1 in 4 adults in the US will be severely obese by 2030, study suggests"

I predict a new study in the not-too distant future... "New study suggests that the IoT contributes to the blowout in health costs in the US due to Severe Obesity" And, in the 'Enquirer'... "My 'fridge helped elect Donald Trump - for his fourth term"

For the record, I have no tongue...

 

[Dr. McCoy]

Just what I needed ... a toaster reporting my daily bread consumption to the NSA.