666 chip? Why a Texas student thinks her school ID is the "Mark of the Beast"

The theology behind a battle over RFID tags.

Read the whole story

 

[randyrado]

What I really appreciate about this article, is that the authors present the facts on the subject matter as they are, without offering up their own personal opinions disguised as independent analysis about this or that, and further present the article without a condescending attitude toward those who believe any of the 666 / Beast beliefs. To top it off, the authors present several resources for a readers' further research on the topic, all of which say to the reader, "here are the facts", the "reader must come to his or her own conclusion or not at all". Thank you Nate and Eric.

 

[Chuckstar]

In my experience, it is the smallest of minorities of Christians who have actually read the bible in its entirety. The vast, vast majority receive their scripture in short segments, hand-in-hand with their pastor's interpretation every Sunday. Most Christians have read a few chapters on their own (The Pentateuch, 4 Canonical Gospels, rarely much else, often less).

I guarantee that almost no christians have read the whole torah (pentateuch). Even for Jews, most of the ones who have read the whole torah, these days, only did so because they follow along at services. Genesis and Exodus get a lot of play. After that, it's just a slog.

BTW, I'm in the middle of reading the whole bible. I'm Jewish and I'd never even read the whole torah before. I guarantee the Penn Gillette quote is correct. There are sections like Kings where you think "this just sounds like history, not religion". Then there are parts like the revenge for the rape of Dinah where you think "people base their entire world view on this?"

 

[netblaz]

the "Left Behind" series rang a bell. then i remembered why.

 

[Chuckstar]

How is anyone supposed to agree that the Bible has a "message of hope" when its core tenants are ethical atrocities like original sin, proxy forgiveness, and living in fear of an afterlife? Those ideas are demonstrably wrong (and monstrous) but somehow they still make a pastor out to be a "good guy" when he disagrees with the "real" (and far less common) loonies who think RFID chips are straight from Satan's workshop.

I don't know if it supports your argument or hurts it, but none of the items I highlighted above are actually in the bible.

 

[J_T_K]

" though they don't enable any sort of GPS-style location tracking of a student's movements around town, at home, etc.)"

That's not necessarily true. Anyone can use an RFID scanner around town or set one up in any doorway that will scan anyone that goes through it. If nothing else it will show who has an RFID card, even if the card data is encrypted there will probably be an ID marker so that the school ID can be pinpointed, and if the cards aren't encrypted than any information on the chip can be read and that's the ball game.

 

[Marlor_AU]

Honestly, it sounds like those people who believe in these apocalyptic threats are suffering from paranoid delusions.

I have known people who see signs all around them of the end times, and believe they are being persecuted or threatened by everyday objects. Those delusions were medically treatable.

It seems to me that the people who believe in the "mark of the beast" are suffering from similar mental disturbance, but have found a religious framework to place those delusions into, therefore making them more socially acceptable. That doesn't mean they don't need help.

 

[Chuckstar]

The rise of apocalypse in the religion like the isolation and strict Jewish Essenes.

In my opinion, Jesus definitely comes from an Essene background in some way. Of course, thinking yourself the Messiah was not a normal thing for Essenes though. Nor was accepting everyone into the fold.

Read through this and see if it reminds you of anything! http://www.jewishencyclopedia.com/articles/5867-essenes

Like everything in the world it changes through times and tribulations. With Roman rule and Jewish leaders being brought to the table. It weakened the Jewish faith splitting it into many, not that it was whole to start with but fractured the tensions that were already there. Jesus being Essene is like a possibility among many that I'm just are not sure of. In scripture he sure thinks what the current Jewish leaders did was wrong, and there is a sense of purity and righteousness that are hallmarks of Essene ideology, but not really conclusive. The reconcile with the multi generational rule of Romans, turned the Essene inwards and towards the Apocalyptic view to make sense of the world and their god. I find this fascinating, it occurs quite often in history so it soothes something in our psyche, something more to understand, I think I have pieces but it's not all there yet.

I'm kind of coming to the conclusion of Jesus not being an individual, not that there is much evidence either way but just how the evolution occurred in Jewish views and ideas. It just fits the image I have of the evolution of the Jewish faith and the evidence that is there when the gospels were written. The style of the gospels and their timings.

It's unlikely that there was not a Jesus. I can't guarantee he existed, but there's historical evidence of his existence within a generation-or-two of his death. Seems unlikely that the mythology of a completely fictional person would have caught on so quickly. He shows up in Josephus just 55-60 years after he would have died. Whether he said/did any of what's in the New Testament is a completely different question. Also, just going off of the information we are told about Jesus, it is unlikely he could be classified into any particular Jewish sect at the time. He was more likely influenced by various theologies of the time, but wasn't particularly integrated into the thinking of any one sect. In general, though, that's not unusual for preacher-philosophers that build up independent followings (as he seems to have done).

 

[AngelZero]

I really never thought I'd see anyone put this much work into paying any sort of attention to someone's fairy tale fantasy.

Kudos to you, Aurich

 

[Chuckstar]

I don't understand how anyone with even a shred of religious belief could criticize this student for what she believes. You can say your beliefs differ from hers, sure, but how can you call her crazy?

This is the thing I'll never get about people who subscribe to any sort of magical/mystical/spiritual belief: How can you draw a line between reasonable and unreasonable beliefs when none of them are supported by evidence? How is magical Jesus and the virgin birth more reasonable than, say, thetans and Xenu?

Even the belief in an amorphous, nonspecific spiritual entity in the universe seems to me no more or less reasonable than very specific beliefs that also defy the known laws of nature.

Where's my +1,000,000 button?

 

[AngelZero]

You can say your beliefs differ from hers, sure, but how can you call her crazy?

Because, you know, "thou shalt not judge" totally doesn't apply to me, Mr. Hat!

 

[Mydrrin]

It's unlikely that there was not a Jesus. I can't guarantee he existed, but there's historical evidence of his existence within a generation-or-two of his death. Seems unlikely that the mythology of a completely fictional person would have caught on so quickly. He shows up in Josephus just 55-60 years after he would have died. Whether he said/did any of what's in the New Testament is a completely different question. Also, just going off of the information we are told about Jesus, it is unlikely he could be classified into any particular Jewish sect at the time. He was more likely influenced by various theologies of the time, but wasn't particularly integrated into the thinking of any one sect. In general, though, that's not unusual for preacher-philosophers that build up independent followings (as he seems to have done).

Jesus so far has not show himself in writings of the time even though it says in scripture that he is know far and wide in Palestine. There have been no verified (not frauds) accounts of him at the time. Josephus is generally thought of as an add-on in about 5th century copy as other copies do not have it included (the style of the passage is different also to the rest so was generally questioned until eastern copies were found that destroyed any possibility). John the Baptist is known from many sources but Jesus is not? There is no evidence either way, if you take the view of the gospels as tales then you can round the corner of him not being real and a tale told of sayings and stories and ideas made living by gospels.

 

[SaddleUp]

She is entitled to her beliefs, its a recognized religion based belief. Freedom of religion also includes protection against things that infringe upon or burden the practice of religion. It does not matter how many people write what ever explaining this or that, it does not matter how many people think she is right or wrong, its her belief and her practice of it is protected by the Constitution.

I forget where its at right now, but there was a case at one point I read about a while back, not dealing specifically with this matter, but something in a federal circuit court I think, where it was ruled the law, and any entitiy local, state, or federal may not burden the free exercise of religion simply for matters of convenience or accommodation. The school wants to do it to get money, thats a matter of convenience or accommodation for the school.

Maybe she has a case.

 

[oldcoot60]

My father-in-law, who is a Christian minister, thinks that the author of Revelation was high as a kite and crazy.

 

[Random_stranger]

To everyone saying "hope they don't have a cell phone, driver's license, etc", either you haven't analyzed the situation in depth, or you're being facetious.

A cell phone is a choice. Sure, it tracks where I go, but if I think that <insert evil wireless carrier> might disclose my location to the evil anti-christ government, then I can choose not to carry a cell phone. Or buy a tracfone with cash. No one will put me in jail for not carrying a cell phone, or not allow me to shop at <insert grocery store>. Life might be a little bit less convenient, but not insane. Heck, I drove all over North America (approx 10,000 km) in 3 weeks in 1998 with just a road atlas, some $US, my (at the time) Canadian credit cards and no cell phone. Nothing bad happened. People were quite friendly. Figuring out which road to take was FUN. I didn't stress over not having a GPS (although it's nice to have when travelling) because I wasn't in a hurry. Pay phones rocked. I can't imagine how much AT&T has raised their profit margin by getting everyone to buy cell phones and discontinuing pay phones.

If I suspect my Amex smart card is ratting me out, I can switch to any number of Visa/Mastercard/Discover cards, or none at all and carry good old greenback and write checks. Less convenient than carrying plastic (or NFC), but I still see people writing checks at the grocery checkout or paying in cash without being looked at as strange - here in Silicon Valley.

Again, a driver's license is a choice. I can let it expire, not carry it, use my birth certificate as ID, etc. And a DL is not trackable, nor required by law. In many European countries, people don't even need them that much due to good public transit - something I wish North America was better at.

As I mentioned above - I carry what I assume is an RFID badge for work. I don't need it if I work from home via citrix. Or, I can probably still find a job that doesn't require one, if I'm really paranoid. My SSN is not tattooed onto my forearm. I've switched citizenship already once in my life, and it may easily happen again.

A school REQUIRING students to carry an RFID tag or to not be allowed to attend is quite something else. Especially when implantation is such a logical next step to them being lost, etc..

 

[flying_walrus]

"Being apocalyptic in nature, one of Revelation's"

please note the "apocalypse" and "revelation" are actually synonyms. the idea of "destruction" as a meaning is only because the revelations were traditionally about destruction.

(from dictionary.com):

a·poc·a·lypse [uh-pok-uh-lips]
noun
1.
( initial capital letter ) revelation ( def 4 ) .
2.
any of a class of Jewish or Christian writings that appeared from about 200 b.c. to a.d. 350 and were assumed to make revelations of the ultimate divine purpose.
3.
a prophetic revelation, especially concerning a cataclysm in which the forces of good permanently triumph over the forces of evil.
4.
any revelation or prophecy.
5.
any universal or widespread destruction or disaster: the apocalypse of nuclear war.

 

[Mujokan]

I don't know if it supports your argument or hurts it, but none of the items I highlighted above are actually in the bible.

Well, fear of being judged when the Kingdom of Heaven arrives is in there.

I agree with you that it makes the most sense that Jesus existed. You would not invent that guy in the Gospels if you just wanted to promote Essene theology. And he is too different in his approach even from what you see in the later books of the New Testament to make much sense as a pure fiction. That's not to say everything in there is accurate, of course.

A guy starting a Messianic cult of a few hundred people then getting executed for it is not going to make the six o'clock news all around the Mediterranean. Certainly not enough to guarantee the survival of a contemporary manuscript beyond what his followers wrote.

 

[Mujokan]

My father-in-law, who is a Christian minister, thinks that the author of Revelation was high as a kite and crazy.

Seems a bit simplistic for a pro.

 

[efassi]

What a pointless article. I read the first bit and then started scanning - because it was posted on Ars I though it must have some meaningful content somewhere, but no.

 

[Chuckstar]

It's unlikely that there was not a Jesus. I can't guarantee he existed, but there's historical evidence of his existence within a generation-or-two of his death. Seems unlikely that the mythology of a completely fictional person would have caught on so quickly. He shows up in Josephus just 55-60 years after he would have died. Whether he said/did any of what's in the New Testament is a completely different question. Also, just going off of the information we are told about Jesus, it is unlikely he could be classified into any particular Jewish sect at the time. He was more likely influenced by various theologies of the time, but wasn't particularly integrated into the thinking of any one sect. In general, though, that's not unusual for preacher-philosophers that build up independent followings (as he seems to have done).

Jesus so far has not show himself in writings of the time even though it says in scripture that he is know far and wide in Palestine. There have been no verified (not frauds) accounts of him at the time. Josephus is generally thought of as an add-on in about 5th century copy as other copies do not have it included (the style of the passage is different also to the rest so was generally questioned until eastern copies were found that destroyed any possibility). John the Baptist is known from many sources but Jesus is not? There is no evidence either way, if you take the view of the gospels as tales then you can round the corner of him not being real and a tale told of sayings and stories and ideas made living by gospels.

I haven't studied Josephus in depth, but my understanding has been that the scholarly consensus is that it is not a later addition. That comes second hand, though. (For the record, that second-hand source is not religious and neither am I, and I haven't done any direct or indirect research on Josephus. Just what I've heard in conversation with someone who tends to be interested in stuff like this.)

Most importantly, there would have been no need to invent someone who experienced the life that Jesus did. There were plenty of itinerant preachers in Judea at the time, preaching the end-times and salvation, building up small followings while pissing off the Sanhedrin enough to get themselves martyred in one way or the other.

I think of two basic possibilities for a development of a sect like Christianity at that time:

(1) The gospels are generally right about his disciples spreading his word and the subsequent role of Paul. From a historical perspective, there's really nothing about that basic story that seems implausible (putting aside the supernatural parts, that is). Preacher is martyred. His closest disciples continue spreading his philosophy. Someone more energetic than those disciples latches on, makes some key changes making the theology more palatable to a wider group of people (especially dropping the Judaism requirement), and spreads the news far and wide.

(2) Someone completely unrelated to Jesus latched on to a true (or partially true) story which is circulating around Judea about this preacher persecuted by the Sanhedrin and crucified by the Romans and used it as a basis for spreading his own beliefs. Interestingly, if one believes a guy named Paul really played a huge role in spreading christianity in the mid-1st-century, then maybe you don't need the disciples. Maybe you just need a guy like Paul, who knew a story of a guy crucified by the Romans at the behest of the Sanhedrin, but made up all the other stuff.

Just seems like you wouldn't have needed to make up a character like Jesus. You would have only needed to make up a bunch of stuff around a recent (but real) person that people might have heard a story or two about. It just seems way more likely to me. Having said that, that might leave you with a guy named Jesus that was a preacher and was crucified by the Romans. He might not have been from Nazareth, might not have preached anything similar to what it says in the gospels, etc.

 

[Mujokan]

She is entitled to her beliefs, its a recognized religion based belief. Freedom of religion also includes protection against things that infringe upon or burden the practice of religion. It does not matter how many people write what ever explaining this or that, it does not matter how many people think she is right or wrong, its her belief and her practice of it is protected by the Constitution.

I forget where its at right now, but there was a case at one point I read about a while back, not dealing specifically with this matter, but something in a federal circuit court I think, where it was ruled the law, and any entitiy local, state, or federal may not burden the free exercise of religion simply for matters of convenience or accommodation. The school wants to do it to get money, thats a matter of convenience or accommodation for the school.

Maybe she has a case.

Sounds like Compelling Interest, but it is very doubtful it will fail that.

 

[variable455]

This really seems that she simply wants to continue cutting classes.

Whatever. From what I've read in other articles, she's got a better than 4.0, and this isn't some random public school.. it's a nerd school. If she can maintain the GPA w/o going to class.. more power to her.

I don't think they have a truancy problem.. unless the kids are in the lab when they're supposed to be in the class room.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_Jay_S ... ng_Academy

To maintain the school's status as a powerhouse for academic excellence, teachers and staff require students to take part in one or more extra-curricular activities relating to research, engineering, and social sciences. Among these are the Science Fair Research Team (which has had several state and national level qualifying students since the start of the Science Academy), History Fair Research Team (which has recently become strong competition for other schools in the state), Academic Decathlon Team, Science UIL Team (which in the NISD remains a mainstay top performing group in the category of Computer Science, Mathematics and Calculator Applications]), Model United Nations Team, and World Quest Team.

The school is also home to an award-winning fine arts program with the band program being one of the top bands in southern Texas and the orchestra being champions in various competitions.

 

[SuinusLatinus]

I have nothing to add except to say religious thinking is an oxymoron...

No offense, but you really shouldn't say anything then. All you're doing is polarizing the sides instead of bridging them back together. You can't persuade someone with a religious faith if you're brushing them away like that. This is why their communities can be so incredibly insular and comments like that can reinforce their closed-community ways.

Love your enemies and all that.

That would be assuming I want to "persuade" someone.

Nor do I see anyone here as my enemy.

 

[sparkleytone]

Thank you for this article. *This* is what I pay for.

 

[visbis444]

Hmm, really don't care about the religious aspect. The privacy concerns alone are more than enough to make chipping humans (directly or indirectly) completely unacceptable.

 

[Chuckstar]

I don't know if it supports your argument or hurts it, but none of the items I highlighted above are actually in the bible.

Well, fear of being judged when the Kingdom of Heaven arrives is in there.

"Fear of an afterlife" could be interpreted different ways, I guess. The New Testament is relatively vague on this point compared to later Christian theology. There is a wicked man in hades, but how wicked? and is he there forever? he cannot cross over the chasm, but is that forever or just the length of his assigned punishment?

But I'll concede that I was a little too black-and-white in my comment. It just seemed to have more impact the way I did it.

EDIT: My main thought process was that the New Testament talks way more about being allowed into the Kingdom of Heaven (positive reinforcement) then it does about eternal punishments (negative reinforcement). Christianity did not evolve to have that same ratio in its preaching.

 

[Chuckstar]

Hmm, really don't care about the religious aspect. The privacy concerns alone are more than enough to make chipping humans (directly or indirectly) completely unacceptable.

Privacy about your location at school? I don't know what school you went to where there was any expectation of privacy about where you were on school grounds at any moment in time, except maybe which exact stall you were in in the bathroom.

 

[Mujokan]

The New Testament is relatively vague on this point compared to later Christian theology

I get what you are saying, but the NT isn't vague about it. It lays it out about 20 times that you're in big twouble.

But it really comes into its own a few hundred years later. Early Christianity is quite positive, medieval Christianity gets positively morbid.

Also I think there is some "proxy forgiveness" stuff in the Last Supper. Or e.g. "The next day John saw Jesus coming toward him and said, “Look, the Lamb of God, who takes away the sin of the world!"

 

[Jon Ghast]

A school REQUIRING students to carry an RFID tag or to not be allowed to attend is quite something else. Especially when implantation is such a logical next step to them being lost, etc..

It's not different when she is choosing to go to this particular school instead of her local high school.
Guess you missed that part. Or ignored it.


For the people predicting doom and gloom about forcing RFID implants as the next step; a student can't even be compelled to get vaccinations in the interests of public health.

Compulsory RFID implants aren't going to happen. Ever.

 

[Mujokan]

More info, lol

"We have to respect their religious beliefs,” district spokesman Pascual Gonzalez told me in a phone interview. “So we said, ‘All right, if this is objectionable to you because it violates your religious beliefs, then we will not put the RFID technology in the card. But you still have to wear the ID card like every other student at school.’ Daddy said no, and the student said no."
http://www.slate.com/blogs/future_tense ... _wear.html

 

[bsharp]

snip

A school REQUIRING students to carry an RFID tag or to not be allowed to attend is quite something else. Especially when implantation is such a logical next step to them being lost, etc..

Are you kidding me?! Charging them, detention, and incentives are all logical next steps. Surgical implantation isn't even close to the ballpark.

 

[Random_stranger]

A school REQUIRING students to carry an RFID tag or to not be allowed to attend is quite something else. Especially when implantation is such a logical next step to them being lost, etc..

It's not different when she is choosing to go to this particular school instead of her local high school.
Guess you missed that part. Or ignored it.

No, I didn't ignore it. My feeling is that if it works for this school, it'll be all over soon enough, including the public schools. This isn't the first time I've seen RFID tags proposed to monitor student attendance.

For the people predicting doom and gloom about forcing RFID implants as the next step; a student can't even be compelled to get vaccinations in the interests of public health.

Compulsory RFID implants aren't going to happen. Ever.

I hope you're right, but your proof is? ~100 years ago people said things like "communicating at a distance without wires isn't going to happen. Ever." or "Flying is impossible."

20 years ago a fellow intern at IBM said (as best as I can remember): "I can't wait to get my implant so I don't have to carry a wallet anymore".

Follow the $$ - if it allows the government to track EVERY transaction and make sure they get their cut, it'll happen sooner or later, IMHO.

 

[Postulator]

Yep, I was brought up in a family that watched all those really badly made movies (there were a couple that were enjoyable).

What puzzles me is why people who are worried about how the state is going to run their lives seem to forget about "render unto Caesar the things that are Caesar's...", and instead focus upon the words of the mad weirdo who wrote Revelations.

I am concerned at the small sub-set of Christians who want to hasten their "Judgement Day" by encouraging conflict in the Middle East that they hope will turn into nuclear war. They think that destroying the Earth would be "good news". I think they're crazy, possibly dangerous assholes.

 

[katorga]

The entire thing sounds like a supreme waste of money to me. The school districts need to fire the useless administrators, replace them with teachers, and actually educate instead of wasting resources on this drivel.

If I were a student, I'd resist this just to be contrary. I might even use the religious "mark of the beast" argument simply because I know that would send the typical secular school administrator through the roof, greatly increasing my enjoyment. This is just the sort of thing intelligent, questioning, rebellious teens should be fighting.

 

[another ars account]

Compulsory RFID implants aren't going to happen. Ever.

I hope you're right, but your proof is? ~100 years ago people said things like "communicating at a distance without wires isn't going to happen. Ever." or "Flying is impossible."

Your examples are of people saying something is technically impossible, and then being proven wrong. Nobody here would suggest that tattooing a barcode on your forehead or implanting an RFID capsule is even a little bit technically difficult; what we're saying is that it is politically infeasible.

 

[oludir]

If she thinks a RFID is the 'mark of the beast'. She's going to be in for a rude awakening if she carries around a smartphone.

Imagine what google now with google latitude will do to her.

 

[Evilsushi]

I'm not religious but I was raised in a religious household. The interpretation that I get from the Bible is that the mark of the beast is a Mark of Allegience not one of Identity. There is absolutely nothing that says it is tied to your identity, So the whole RF ID thing is bogus.

 

[TheGerbil]

Though a recent believer in the Increate I'm still rabidly anti-religious. IMO, this is backed up by that when JC rose the temple was sundered, the veil ripped, the Holy of Holies laid bare for all to see. In short, no "Priest" should have any right to intercede between you and G-d, "This is between you and me" as far as that issue is going.


Even before, and not really believing anything, having a "Conservative Orthodox Atheist" background I STILL agreed -allegorically- with some aspects of religious teaching. Some of it is actually wisdom, not "Boo Boo scare you to be a slave with my magic ju ju!" depending on what's been edited.


Likewise I consider the "Book of Revelation" to be a hallucinogenic mushroom inspired revenge fantasy against the Emperor Nero. A "Book" that was just a dusty scroll scribbled out, even only debatably being penned by the same martyr / ?prophet it's attached to that the Council of Nicea only included in the books that later became the bible because for crude dominant politics they'd excluded so many the whole thing was about to tear apart.


Even having said all that it's brilliant; "By their FRUIT shall ye KNOW them" - hehe remember "Ted Fa-" excuse me "Ted Haggard"?... But it means more than about him.


Thus I agree that "The Sign of the Beast" facing a world civilization is something to fight at every level. The pretense of safety at the cost of privacy and liberty... Really if that isn't a "Devils Bargain" perhaps stripped of the contract written in blood (though DNA sample, cough cough) or occult trappings, well I don't know what is. We need to always have a dodge for privacy, paranoia, kookiness no "Absolute Control" and yes that's a window for crime, vice, madness and other 'good things in life' to slip through, not that they wouldn't with 'total monitoring' anyways.


I don't want schools so full of cameras and monitoring you are broadcast doing all your bad behavior. To have kids grow up in a rat experiment cage to teach them this is acceptable. It truly is an evil thing for America is a flip of the finger, a stab at the "Controllers" the dominant princes and the "Globalist Bankers" that are now trying to gain control again. It's a worse form of treason than leaking Department of Defense dumb F-ckery to internet exposure sites, for it turns America into a slave nation that pretends it's still better than the kings and dictators and theocrats it is created in opposition do.

 

[Jon Ghast]

I hope you're right, but your proof is? ~100 years ago people said things like "communicating at a distance without wires isn't going to happen. Ever." or "Flying is impossible."

That's the single (technically a pair) dumbest counterexample I've ever seen.

And that's saying something, this is the internet.


I can't think of any, but can you find a single compulsory, invasive, medical procedure forced en masse on American children in the last 50 years? The last hundred?

I'm sorry to be rude, but that's just not a realistic fear. This coming from someone who carries a BoB in preparation for the outbreak of weaponized rabies.

kinda /s

 

[lXilEl]

We all know that a divine deity that's infinitely more knowledgeable than us would send someone to suffer for eternity for what we do here in our 70 years give or take. Sounds like justice to me.

Really what person even has the right to say such a thing.. No single person on this planet past present or future will be able to comprehend what infinity is. Our brains which are very very finite could never even begin to have the capacity to do so. Then when you compare our finite knowledge to a infinite knowledge by comparison we're too primitive to be held accountable for our actions on a infinite time scale.

Religion based on fear of the consequences is not religion at all it's slavery.

 

[thekaj]

I'm fuzzy on the whole good/bad thing. From what I can recall from Revelations, the order in which this stuff is supposed to go down is the Rapture, then the Antichrist appearing, and THEN the whole Mark of the Beast thing getting applied, correct? If that's true, then why are these people who believe in this so concerned about the Mark now? Do they think the Rapture already happened, and they missed the beam out? Because if it hasn't happened yet, then the Antichrist hasn't appeared yet, and that means that the Mark of the Beast hasn't been introduced.

At the very least, these people should be concerned about continuity errors.