This new charger lets all EVs plug in without an adapter

The Omni Port has a Tesla-style J3400 plug as well as a CCS1 plug.

See full article...

 

[Surtrus]

Nissan Leaf: Am I a joke to you?

I feel like this is a setup for literally a dozen different put downs on the leaf.

 

[Tonkaman]

Something doesn't have to be open or managed by a neutral 3rd party to be a standard. IIRC Tesla did even offer up their old charging protocol for others to implement if they wanted to but the terms were not palatable for anyone. Again, nitpicking about if tesla's old charging protocol is a standard or not, has nothing to do with tesla should have used a standard that didn't exist when they first started building their vehicles and charging network.

The CCS standard did exist, but as usual Tesla doesn't play well with others and went off to make their own charge design. Tesla was part of the original committee that created CCS in the first place, but Tesla felt the other automakers weren't going fast enough because they had to actually agree.

 

[Surtrus]

It really isn't that complicated.

Can you handle this?

Congrats, you can handle plugging in your car. If you can't, then you should not be driving a car.

Obligatory:
View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6pDH66X3ClA

 

[LDA 6502]

While you are correct that NACS is basically a Tesla connect using the CCS standard, which is why passive adapters are possible, it really isn't relevant to the Telsa should have used a standard discussion. Tesla's original fast charging standard was out before CCS and they increased the power quicker than other standards. Once CCS caught up they added the ability for their vehicles to speak CCS so Tesla owners could use the sort of cheap passive adapter that CCS vehicles are now able to use for NACS.

Given that Tesla was required to use CCS in Europe, my guess is that it was a relatively minor change to get IEC 61851 working on their vehicles in other markets.

 

[Tonkaman]

Given that Tesla was required to use CCS in Europe, my guess is that it was a relatively minor change to get IEC 61851 working on their vehicles in other markets.

Exactly. The dates align with Europe, and both CCS1 and CCS2 use the same communication protocol. The governments in Europe forced Tesla to use CCS2, so Tesla already had the engineering to do it done. In the US, they had already built out an entire incompatible charge network by that point and didn't want to spend the money to change it to CCS.

 

[sd70mac]

Longer cord, more copper to steal.

To be constructive, how long will it be before the cords retract into the charger and only release when there is a customer signed in?

I’m not sure if there are other cars with this function yet, however the FIAT Panda has an extending L2 cord built in.

 

[nbs2]

I’m not clear on how this is all that different than having these A2Z adapters (whose NACS to CCS adapters seem incredibly popular on the Rivian and Lightning forums) plus some sort of automatic release mechanism installed.

https://a2zevshop.com/collections/charging-adapters/products/a2z-thunderstorm-plug-ccs1-ccs-combo

 

[Zeppos]

I'll buy an EV when you can charge it with USB-C.

 

[bob@bobsbits.net]

The article also says there is more ccs on the roads then nac. This is not true in USA. There is 52% Tesla on roads.

But native ports won't start showing up in non-Tesla EVs until next year, and more than half of the EVs already on North American roads use J1776 (for AC) and CCS1 (for DC) charge ports.

 

[sporkinum]

The article also says there is more ccs on the roads then nac. This is not true in USA. There is 52% Tesla on roads.

Give it a year or so and that will be below 50%. Musk is killing Tesla.

 

[real mikeb_60]

It's pretty clear after many comments that this is a semi-captive Tesla adapter for the CCS cable. Good. If I used Chargepoint a lot it would save the hassle of getting one once they're generally available. And if my Tesla or other future vehicle with the 3400 socket didn't come with the adapter to start with (which they probably will for a while).

Am I blind, or did the story only talk about the plug, not the charge rate?

A little bit of reportorial digging would have been helpful to find out and include the status of this kind of setup at other CCS providers, at least the big ones like EVGo, Electrify America, and (in my area at least) EV Connect.

EVGo has put Tesla plugs on some of their chargers, but in essence they replace or duplicate the ChaDeMo connection with a 50kw limit. Somehow, I don't think that's going to satisfy the average Tesla or Rivian or Lightning owner on a road trip - sort of like trying to put a fire out by squirting through a soda straw. Many existing Chargepoint sites are also limited to 50-75 kw per plug, so similarly limited. Is Chargepoint doing charger upgrades along with the new cables & plugs? Need more info.

 

[rmgoat]

So now the thieves will have two charging cables per charging station to steal, great! Maybe EV manufacturers will have to go the route of the Fiat Grande Panda EV (Europe only so far) and have a retractable cable built in to the vehicle. Still not a perfect solution, we stayed overnight at a friends home, when we got home in the morning the 30A cable in my class C motorhome had been pulled out as far as it would go and cut off, probably with a bolt cutter (the 'locks' on the access door are a joke). Good thing my tame electrician lives just down the street, other than cable length its the same as the one for a 30A clothes dryer.

EV charger cable thefts
View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xy-APNuhoTI


Fiat Grande Panda EV
View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cwcM6XoTXL4

 

[benwaggoner]

“We put two of them on the same box. Look at how smart and innovative we are.”

Sometimes what we need is a simple, practical solution instead of inventing something new and clever.

Which can be an innovative idea on its own sometimes...

 

[ShmoeTheHo]

I don’t really see the innovation. We’ve had the Tesla universal wall connector https://shop.tesla.com/product/universal-wall-connector and it’s less bulky.

It's also not a DC fast charger.

 

[GFKBill]

"The new ChargePoint Omni Port is actually a pair of cables."

It's not. We're 4 pages in and still no article correction?

WRT the article image being an AC charger, Chargepoint made that choice with their press release, it's reproduced from that.

 

[Chuy Ch]

This article is wrong. It is not two cables and one with each connector. Each able comes with both connectors and select the proper one depending on the car that is registered.

View: https://youtu.be/tCAHWnbdyLg?si=a0cKXWVLsMnrZDsc

@admin !!!

 

[Statistical]

I’m not clear on how this is all that different than having these A2Z adapters (whose NACS to CCS adapters seem incredibly popular on the Rivian and Lightning forums) plus some sort of automatic release mechanism installed.

https://a2zevshop.com/collections/charging-adapters/products/a2z-thunderstorm-plug-ccs1-ccs-combo

The difference is it is built in. You don't need to bring your own adapter. You don't need to install the adapter. If you push the CCS1 button you get a CC1 plug. If you push the NACS button you get a NACS plug.

 

[raxx7]

It's pretty clear after many comments that this is a semi-captive Tesla adapter for the CCS cable. Good. If I used Chargepoint a lot it would save the hassle of getting one once they're generally available. And if my Tesla or other future vehicle with the 3400 socket didn't come with the adapter to start with (which they probably will for a while).

Am I blind, or did the story only talk about the plug, not the charge rate?

A little bit of reportorial digging would have been helpful to find out and include the status of this kind of setup at other CCS providers, at least the big ones like EVGo, Electrify America, and (in my area at least) EV Connect.

EVGo has put Tesla plugs on some of their chargers, but in essence they replace or duplicate the ChaDeMo connection with a 50kw limit. Somehow, I don't think that's going to satisfy the average Tesla or Rivian or Lightning owner on a road trip - sort of like trying to put a fire out by squirting through a soda straw. Many existing Chargepoint sites are also limited to 50-75 kw per plug, so similarly limited. Is Chargepoint doing charger upgrades along with the new cables & plugs? Need more info.

That's because those EVgo stations were literally fitting a Tesla Chademo adapter which is limited to 50 kW (then again, so are most Chademo plugs out there).

Tesla's own CCS1->Tesla adapter can approach the practical limits of CCS for a "400 V" vehicle.

 

[raxx7]

Something doesn't have to be open or managed by a neutral 3rd party to be a standard. IIRC Tesla did even offer up their old charging protocol for others to implement if they wanted to but the terms were not palatable for anyone.

It pretty much has.

Companies will generally avoid binging themselves to a standard controlled by their competitors unless you put a gun to their heads.

And the terms Tesla offered before a few years ago were basically the business equivalent of requiring ritual suicide by disembowelment.

 

[ehrenzoner]

Chademo user here wondering why this is good news.

(I see which way the wind is blowing, just saying)

 

[DM619]

No idea why the ars article is showing the J1772 cable but that would only be l2 charging

They are also upgrading the Fast DC chargers which is likely more important (passive AC only NACS to CC1 adapters are tiny and cheap).

The same cable first in CCS1 mode (without the adapter which remains inside the charger if you select CCS)

View attachment 87334

later the same exact cable but in NACS mode (the CCS1 to NACS adapter remains attached when removing the cable from charger if you select NACS)

View attachment 87337

Yikes that does look like it would put a lot of stress on the charge port.

I have one of those adapters in my Tesla, only used it once or twice. Maybe it's not as much stress as the photo suggests.

 

[alansh42]

That's because those EVgo stations were literally fitting a Tesla Chademo adapter which is limited to 50 kW (then again, so are most Chademo plugs out there).

Tesla's own CCS1->Tesla adapter can approach the practical limits of CCS for a "400 V" vehicle.
View attachment 87389

Right now the Superchargers max out at 250kW at 400V. They have announced an upgrade to 350kW at 800V but they don't seem to have deployed any yet. In the Tesla line only the Cybertruck can use the higher power.

Other cars have other limits. My EV6 can charge at up to 350kW 250kW but on 400V chargers (like the Superchargers) it's limited to 100kW. It uses the rear motor inverter to boost it from 400 to 800V and that's limited to 100kW.

Edited to fix charge rate.

 

[Statistical]

Other cars have other limits. My EV6 can charge at up to 350kW

No it can't. It is quite impressive but nowhere near 350 kW. It has roughly similar peak charging as a Tesla Mode 3/Y at ~250 kW but it has overall faster charging 10% to 80% because it can sustain ~250 kW charging for a lot longer.

 

[raxx7]

Right now the Superchargers max out at 250kW at 400V. They have announced an upgrade to 350kW at 800V but they don't seem to have deployed any yet. In the Tesla line only the Cybertruck can use the higher power.

Superchargers can supply in excess of 630 A but CCS 2.0 tops at 500 A which results in a limit of ~200 kW for "400 V" vehicles.

 

[Paul_in_Maine_USA]

Yada yada and bosh. Just give me two copper studs with 600 Volts across them. I know how to jump electric power. Tap the alligator clip to see if it is "live". If the lights dim, reverse the connection. If the machine goes blooie, move to another machine. It's just electricity.

 

[alansh42]

No it can't. It is quite impressive but nowhere near 350 kW. It has roughly similar peak charging as a Tesla Mode 3/Y at ~250 kW but it has overall faster charging 10% to 80% because it can sustain ~250 kW charging for a lot longer.

View attachment 87403

Yeah, typo. I meant 250kW.

 

[croc123]

Looking at "Old Style Fuel" (TM) facilities, ie gas stations, there are two types of 'chargers' or nozzles. Diesel and all others. And there is a valid reason for the difference... I guess that unless the industry decides to standardize on its charger designs (Musk? Standardize???) then you will needlessly have to have several different charger types on each charger base.

Hey, Elon,,, Standards are not a bad thing, all in all.

 

[fishbait]

Tesla lets you register your vehicle's make and model inside the Tesla app. When you go to a Tesla Magic Dock Supercharger, you activate the charger from the app, and it releases the cable with the CCS adapter attached if necessary. V4 Magic Dock dispensers allow you to double-tap the button on the handle before undocking if you want the CCS adapter, so you don't even need the app.

ChargePoint's solution requires you to tap on the charger's screen to select if you want NACS or CCS, just like selecting what fuel grade you want at a gasoline pump.

okay that is a lot better than the nfc it seemed to be

 

[Statistical]

Looking at "Old Style Fuel" (TM) facilities, ie gas stations, there are two types of 'chargers' or nozzles. Diesel and all others. And there is a valid reason for the difference... I guess that unless the industry decides to standardize on its charger designs (Musk? Standardize???) then you will needlessly have to have several different charger types on each charger base.

Hey, Elon,,, Standards are not a bad thing, all in all.

The industry (in North America) has decided to standardize on NACS the standard created by Tesla. However there are millions of CCS vehicles on the road and they will be on the road for 20 years so some sort of transition process is needed hence these chargers which support both standards. Elon agrees with you that standards aren't a bad thing which is why Tesla turned the Tesla connector into NACS.

 

[Gussy2000]

So it's a Magic Dock in reverse. Cool. One more step towards making BEV charging easier (than it already is).

 

[sporkinum]

So now the thieves will have two charging cables per charging station to steal, great!

EV charger cable thefts
View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xy-APNuhoTI

Top thumbnail looks like Zuck is supplementing his billions by stealing copper.

 

[nbs2]

The difference is it is built in. You don't need to bring your own adapter. You don't need to install the adapter. If you push the CCS1 button you get a CC1 plug. If you push the NACS button you get a NACS plug.

I get that. But given that the NACS button is just bolts on the adapter when releasing the plug, I’m wondering what is novel about their solution vs the A2Z product.

From where I’m sitting in the cheap seats, it looks like the brilliant idea is not the adapter, but an automated release from the adapter (when someone presses CCS) or from the base station (retaining the adapter, when someone presses NACS). I guess they’ve got something that keeps users from stealing the CCS to NACS adapter, which is neat.

 

[l1011]

There are actually a number of places in the world where both Type-I/J1772 and Type-II usage overlap: Central America, Korea, Taiwan, the Philippines, Ukraine, and the Caribbean are the notable ones. So it is a bigger problem than you suggest. And GB/T is now common in Costa Rica, just to add another wrinkle.

You seem to be saying there is more to the world than the U.S. and Europe. Americans know that isn't true. /s
I like your comment and your knowledge. Knowledge like yours is why I like Ars commentors.

 

[l1011]

The article also says there is more ccs on the roads then nac. This is not true in USA. There is 52% Tesla on roads.

FYI, there are 23 countries in North America. I know that is a difficult fact for people from the USA to realize though given that they are the self-proclaimed center of the universe. I did think that Ars readers were more knowledgeable than the typical American though.

 

[ricegf]

I think you are completely missing why we're moving - it has nothing to do with a plug being better than another. Tesla's plug is more prolific than others, the end.

It has nothing to do with "more prolific" and everything to do with "more reliable chargers". Superchargers are 99.6% reliable, while EA fast chargers are 76.8% reliable.

The CEO of Ford took his family on an EV trip, and they couldn't find a working CCS1 fast charger. His kids excitedly pointed to the busy Superchargers, and he told them Ford vehicles couldn't use them. The kids said "That's dumb" and the light dawned. Ford announced the switch shortly thereafter and the industry quickly followed.

 

[ricegf]

AFAIK only the Tesla superchargers have had the Tesla plugs previously. Tesla owners would have to bring their own adapter everywhere to use anything but a Tesla charging station.

I'm fairness, after 80,000 miles I've never needed to use "anything but a Tesla charging station". They're ubiquitous and very reliable, which is driving the switch to NACS in the first place.

 

[real mikeb_60]

It is a bit more than ~300 miles, but it is a good length trip for a two day or three-day weekend. Realistically, a second stop during the day would not be overwhelming.

Keep in mind, I said an extra 20 minutes longer. Not that I took a 20-minute stop. My charging stop was around 30 minutes total, but usually I gave myself 10 minutes for a stop with my ICE vehicle, which is my baseline. I think I charge up about 45% to 50% depending on heating and cooling needs. (No idea yet on performance in extreme cold on a trip.)

I've done 500 miles, and it isn't miserable. However, what could make a trip miserable is having multiple long hops between charging stations, because the charging curve isn't nice when you have to charge that high.

Yeah, i don't think the Bolt is a great vehicle for a long road trip from coast to coast. But it is fine for a lot of the more common long distance trips. Especially the type of trip that makes for a good long weekend trip. These are pefectly fine length trips to justify someone wanting a chademo adaptor for a Leaf with one of the large battery packs.

Having an adapter to allow charging a Bolt at a Tesla site would help with road trips, no question, but not having one doesn't prevent doing road trips. It just makes them inconvenient because of the charging time, and all that having Tesla available would do is fill in a few holes in the overall charging network. As a practical matter, most (certainly not all) Bolt owners probably are or were like me: 90%+ of charging sessions on 120V or Level 2 at home or at work. Road trips requiring charging stops away from home or work are extremely rare, and can be planned for. Most of the time, they work without resorting (or potentially resorting) to use of Tesla chargers*. Yes, "drive for 2 hours, charge for 1" is a good rule of thumb for planning those trips (EPA range is 259 miles, but practical freeway cruising range keeping up with traffic is more like 160-180), but how often do you have to deal with that? If it's more than once a year, you probably need something that's Not A Bolt.

*Note: one exception is vacation trips where the hotel only has Tesla destination chargers. Those usually are in places with limited or no alternatives. Luckily, adapters for use of destination chargers by J1772-plug cars have been around approximately forever.

 

[evan_s]

Having an adapter to allow charging a Bolt at a Tesla site would help with road trips, no question, but not having one doesn't prevent doing road trips. It just makes them inconvenient because of the charging time, and all that having Tesla available would do is fill in a few holes in the overall charging network. As a practical matter, most (certainly not all) Bolt owners probably are or were like me: 90%+ of charging sessions on 120V or Level 2 at home or at work. Road trips requiring charging stops away from home or work are extremely rare, and can be planned for. Most of the time, they work without resorting (or potentially resorting) to use of Tesla chargers*. Yes, "drive for 2 hours, charge for 1" is a good rule of thumb for planning those trips (EPA range is 259 miles, but practical freeway cruising range keeping up with traffic is more like 160-180), but how often do you have to deal with that? If it's more than once a year, you probably need something that's Not A Bolt.

*Note: one exception is vacation trips where the hotel only has Tesla destination chargers. Those usually are in places with limited or no alternatives. Luckily, adapters for use of destination chargers by J1772-plug cars have been around approximately forever.

The difference is that a Tesla to J1772 and NACS to CCS adapter together are about 1/4 to 1/3 the cost of the CHAedMO adapter and they don't still have the downsides of Leaf quick charging. Potentially damaging your battery health long term and resulting in turtle mode (limited power while driving) or even slower charging if you need to make a second charging stop. In the best case scenario where you've got a more powerful charger available and the battery temperature is under control a Leaf + can be better than a Bolt for a long road trip but the worst case scenario can be pretty bad.

 

[some guy in San Diego]

The industry (in North America) has decided to standardize on NACS the standard created by Tesla. However there are millions of CCS vehicles on the road

Are there even one million CCS1 vehicles on the road? I'm almost certain there's not two million.

There are likely barely "millions" of Tesla plug vehicles on the road in the US, given that Google says Tesla's sold less than 5 million cars in its existence, period. Quite a lot of those in China and Europe where they don't have Tesla plugs.

Though "hundreds of thousands" is still quite a lot.

 

[real mikeb_60]

Are there even one million CCS1 vehicles on the road? I'm almost certain there's not two million.

There are likely barely "millions" of Tesla plug vehicles on the road in the US, given that Google says Tesla's sold less than 5 million cars in its existence, period. Quite a lot of those in China and Europe where they don't have Tesla plugs.

Though "hundreds of thousands" is still quite a lot.

ISTR that GM sold somewhere north of 200K Bolts (including EUV) during its entire 7-year production run. Still a lot less than Tesla, which has in fact sold several million in the US. Add all non-Tesla sales together in the US and it'll still come to a (smallish but growing) fraction of Tesla sales. Of course, for a long time, if you wanted a practical EV in the US Tesla was effectively the only game in town; cumulatively credible competition has only appeared within the last few years.