War never changes: A Fallout fan’s spoiler-laden review of the new TV series

The show preserved the themes, archetypes, chronology, and more for the games.

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[Snarky Robot]

Yes, I'm sure they just went about their day, shrugging off those injuries and amputations.

Fucking hell, someone call Guiness. Those goalposts just set a new land speed record.

 

[Causification]

Between the Fallout TV show and the D&D movie I’m cautiously optimistic that writers are finally figuring out how to capture what makes games special. We are getting stories set in those worlds filled with fan service. But by focusing on the characters, these stories are approachable because the themes are universal, not specific to the source material.

At least we're getting some examples of it. So far there's two or three Rings of Power for every Fallout, but the more examples we get of people doing it right the more people will notice it can be done right.

 

[nom3ramy]

It's unpleasant to watch, so what's the point?

Are these "things" human at all?

One point is to discuss aspects of humanity that are not evident in an already well-organized society.

Yes, these creatures are human. If we recognize this, we can see that we need to structure rules of behavior so that everyone gains by following them.

Otherwise, we create situations where clearly "inhuman" behavior is perfectly rational. One current example is Russia's cynical attack and genocide attempts in Ukraine, where Russia can expect a net benefit if success comes quickly with little opposition. Building a moral justification for such despicable actions is easy with enough motivated reasoning.

By examining such situations, even contrived ones via a work of fiction, we can hope to learn how to build social structures where such "inhumanity" is not the best apparent option.

 

[traumadog]

Yes, I'm sure they just went about their day, shrugging off those injuries and amputations.

But, why are you really comparing cartoonish non-human fleshy videogame characters to people having real life medical injuries?

That goes for your second post as well.

A character using a crutch post-traumatic amputation, with evidence of ongoing bleeding doesn’t sound like “shrugging off” to me. Especially since the plot line makes it clear that individual didn’t believe he could make the rest of the journey to where he was going.

And I am pointing out how something that happens IRL today means that the same thing happening in a TV show is entirely plausible.

 

[LizandreBZH]

You're continually confusing plausible with realistic.

...

You are spending too much time on an Internet forum arguing about something that is not important. You don't like it, we get it.

 

[LizandreBZH]

Watched the show, loved it without restrictions but a few things seem off.

In a commercial, Vault-Tec says that the customer will be with 200 neighbors so a population between 500 and 1000, but he vaults 32 and 33 seem too small. Production cost or are the vaults much smaller than advertised by vault-tech ?

We hear about plagues and agricultural disasters leading to starvation in the vaults. Do you think they are engineered to control the vaults and the risks of overpopulation ? It seems strange that pathogens would enter these places, especially when there is not exactly a lot of biomass outside...

 

[traumadog]

It should be fairly obvious, why the syringe also isn't realistic, because it behaves like magic. But, magic can be perfectly plausible.

It’s commonly understood that advanced technology to an uninformed viewer can look like magic.

Because, if they always existed, where do they come from? Who made them and with what technology? What do they cost? How many are there? Where are they made? What are they made of? Can they be destroyed? Why are they strategically scattered, where the hero needs them? Is any of that information of impact or use in the story?

The stimpaks seen/used in the series were both sourced from a first aid kit. And do you need an explanation of where everything came from for it to be plausible? What about the bandages? There’s no explanation as to where they were made, or what their cost is, or if they could be destroyed. Yet a character has a bandaged eye by the end of the first episode. Are those bandages somehow “convenient”? Because it’s clear by the end of the first episode that a stimpak clearly didn’t restore the vision of someone poked in the eye with a fork.

 

[traumadog]

It's not the same thing, because of the violence that causes it. That is part of the comparison.

I'm not sure any of your patients, no matter how horrible their injuries have been, have experienced that kind of violence from characters that inhabit no human psychology, because such characters do not exist.

I didn’t realize that studies in post-apocalyptic human behavior exist for comparison here, to prove that such behavior is inconsistent with human actions.

And the news today is rife with actions from people that don’t exhibit what we would call “rational human behavior”.

But your argument now seems to be that such behavior isn’t plausible because it isn’t realistic.

 

[TimeWinder]

Please don't derail the entire thread by repeatedly responding to trolling.

 

[BigEddieD]

Please don't derail the entire thread by repeatedly responding to trolling.

Easier said than done when they're just so damned sure about the air-tightness of their arguments, while somehow neglecting to ask why they're still able to breath from behind them...

 

[phipse]

I never played the games but I enjoyed the show. My wife would have enjoyed it too, but she's quite turned off by gore. The occasional head being blown off or exploding in the suit's hand would have been enough to turn her on this story. I get that the game may have had gratuitous gory elements and this was faithful, but it's not really necessary to tell the story and engage more people.

While I'm not sure I share your opinion, I did have to upvote your comment to cancel out one of the many downvotes. Your opinion is completely valid and there is certainly a case to be made that certain audiences have become a bit too numb to gore and violence.

 

[tbird20d]

I really enjoyed the show. I have not played any of the games, and am thinking about doing so. My main problem now is that I that I enjoyed the lore so much that I've been soaking up Internet commentary, and I have probably spoiled a good chunk of the games. Are they still worth playing if you know the broad-brush outcomes of the timelines?

 

[TheColinous]

I really enjoyed the show. I have not played any of the games, and am thinking about doing so. My main problem now is that I that I enjoyed the lore so much that I've been soaking up Internet commentary, and I have probably spoiled a good chunk of the games. Are they still worth playing if you know the broad-brush outcomes of the timelines?

The games, at least FO 3, FO NV, and FO 4, are not so story dependent. Yes, there are stories in them, but they tend to be thin railroads that gets you from location A to Location B with a high chance of distraction in between A and B. I think what the game publisher Bethesda is really good at is world building, in that they build worlds that distract you with things to do. Don't be surprised if you start to play and find that your initial plan to progress the story one story beat has involved starting to go toward the next story point, and then you look up and discover that you're half-way across the map in the other direction, and that three hours have passed.

You will find that you've created your own story in the context of the world building that's much more engrossing than whatever bread-crumbs Bethesda put in the game for you to follow.

 

[Statistical]

I really enjoyed the show. I have not played any of the games, and am thinking about doing so. My main problem now is that I that I enjoyed the lore so much that I've been soaking up Internet commentary, and I have probably spoiled a good chunk of the games. Are they still worth playing if you know the broad-brush outcomes of the timelines?

Very much. The games are open ended with endless side quests and even multiple main endings. Even reading up on the lore it is very likely you will run across surprises.

 

[Ben G]

The games, at least FO 3, FO NV, and FO 4, are not so story dependent. Yes, there are stories in them, but they tend to be thin railroads that gets you from location A to Location B with a high chance of distraction in between A and B. I think what the game publisher Bethesda is really good at is world building, in that they build worlds that distract you with things to do. Don't be surprised if you start to play and find that your initial plan to progress the story one story beat has involved starting to go toward the next story point, and then you look up and discover that you're half-way across the map in the other direction, and that three hours have passed.

You will find that you've created your own story in the context of the world building that's much more engrossing than whatever bread-crumbs Bethesda put in the game for you to follow.

That’s the Golden Rule of the Wasteland, right?

 

[Starmartyr]

Watched the show, loved it without restrictions but a few things seem off.

In a commercial, Vault-Tec says that the customer will be with 200 neighbors so a population between 500 and 1000, but he vaults 32 and 33 seem too small. Production cost or are the vaults much smaller than advertised by vault-tech ?

We hear about plagues and agricultural disasters leading to starvation in the vaults. Do you think they are engineered to control the vaults and the risks of overpopulation ? It seems strange that pathogens would enter these places, especially when there is not exactly a lot of biomass outside...

Vault-Tec lies about EVERYTHING! Every vault is an experiment and the vault dwellers are the lab rats.
Vault-Tec would absolutely engineer disasters as a part of the experiment or just for S and G’s.

 

[TheColinous]

Watched the show, loved it without restrictions but a few things seem off.

In a commercial, Vault-Tec says that the customer will be with 200 neighbors so a population between 500 and 1000, but he vaults 32 and 33 seem too small. Production cost or are the vaults much smaller than advertised by vault-tech ?

We hear about plagues and agricultural disasters leading to starvation in the vaults. Do you think they are engineered to control the vaults and the risks of overpopulation ? It seems strange that pathogens would enter these places, especially when there is not exactly a lot of biomass outside...

Vault-Tec built an exclusive vault for its chief-designer where he could torture the other residents as a pastime while he waited out the time until it was safe to leave the vault. And every vault was a twisted experiment of some shape or another, where the residents were put through horrific experiences just so that Vault-Tec could gather data to engineer the future after the war. They would definitely nuke the US if they thought it would benefit them.

 

[Snarky Robot]

I already adressed what plausibility is.

Really? 'cause this is the third time I'm going to have to ask you for specifics. Sounds more like you're just petulantly sticking to a dumb argument because the concept of backing down approximates "losing" in your mind. Again: "I don't like the way they handled this" is a perfectly rational position. But here, a test: list me your five favorite science fiction or fantasy movies/TV shows. Let's see how consistent this little whine fest is. I'm going to guarantee that based on your silly little "LOTR MAGIC DOESN'T COUNT" that I'm going to discover that every single one has the same flaws as here.

But you won't buy it. Because you like what you like, you don't like what you don't, and you want to hang your subjective opinion on an objective criteria for whatever weird insecurity drives nonsense like this. It's okay to have opinions that people don't agree with. You don't need to insist it's a fact!

Again: it's okay not to like thing without shouting "it's not plausible" and then refusing to directly answer when asked to explain. Why not just...do that?

 

[traumadog]

• You see surface dwellers concealing cannibalistic behaviors.
• You have NPCs asking for water, when they have apparently not left their house in years.
• You have the vaulters, who apparently can live in confines for centuries without problems.
• You have Ghouls who can hibernate and wake up and be Mr. Smartypants without any mental degradation.
• Then of course various characters shrugging off of pain from severe injuries and amputations.

1) surface dwellers concealing cannibalistic behaviors? Where? Especially if there's a line in the show where a character explicitly says "ass jerky ain't gonna cut itself". Plus, another mentions how Fiends are cannibals.

2) why wouldn't an "NPC" ask for water? And who knows what that character actually did in their off-screen time? All he said was he didn't go to Filly, not that he never left home. And he said he was dying anyway.

3) vaulters living in confines without problems? I guess the reference to "cousin stuff" in episode 1 flew right over your head. Or the fact that the neighboring vault had a reported blight, which is what the supposed triennial exchange was about in the first place. Or the fact that Lucy explained that their own vault had a blight, saying her dad was "down to 125 pounds" at one point.

4) ghouls have been generally recognized as somewhat immortal due to radiation-induced or chemical changes. And clearly the show introduced the need for the ghouls to need some chemical vial to be used to fend off mental degradation - which is why there's an IV bag hanging from the cross at the end of the first episode. But I guess you didn't wait long enough to get that understanding before giving up on the series. That's not the showrunner's fault.

5) heck, episode 2 a character says "can you get this for me? I'm shot in the leg".
Another character wears an eye patch for the rest of the series. A third cut in the leg winds up in a hospital tent, visibly bandaged.

Heck, one character who loses a leg needs a crutch to even leave town. And we only find out he took some pills after he mentions it - but didn't see it.

I mean, do you really need to see characters taking narcotics just to maintain your sense of suspended disbelief?

Because there are other media that show the same exact thing. I mean, in The Martian, Watney hauls dozens of cubic meters of soil into the Hab right after being impaled on an antenna. And no one has called that out as being implausible.

And yet Lucy being stabbed in the first episode (in the same location as Watney, BTW), and using a stimpak - and later visibly seen as stapling the wound shut - is somehow less plausible?

How many complained that Batman using some injected serum after taking a shotgun blast to the chest in The Batman - and yet still has enough mobility, strength and lack of pain to be evacuating people hours later - is implausible? Because I haven't heard it.

And it's sure a goalpost mover if you point out how bandages are common now because they exist in real life, yet also say that people functioning with horrendous wounds is implausible, after I point out that such things happen in real life, too.

 

[Snarky Robot]

And do you need an explanation of where everything came from for it to be plausible?

How did the Hobbits get their clothes, huh? I didn't see anyone making their own. They didn't show a tailor that could serve the whole community, let alone explain where they got the wool and the dye. There's no possible way that you can fill in the gaps and assume that there's a tailor somewhere in the world. Probably several! Shit, come to think of it, I didn't see a recipe for Lambas bread. What, so it's magically sustaining? They've somehow made the most calorie-dense thing in the world? What, it slows down your system so climbing mountains doesn't burn as many calories? Did the elves sprinkle magic calorie powder on it? I sure as shit didn't see Galadriel out there hoeing any wheat, so where's the flour come from, huh?

None of this is plausible. They didn't explain where the steel came from for every sword and shield. How many swords are there in the world, huh? HUH?

 

[Snarky Robot]

• You have NPCs asking for water, when they have apparently not left their house in years.

You mean like several unlisted quests in Fallout 3 and Fallout 4 where you're asked to bring someone water or a soda? Like it's an homage and bit of humor?

I cannot imagine how tedious you must be at parties.

 

[Snarky Robot]

I have directly answered you. You refuse to read the answers.

Link me to the post where you answered my specific questions. Not a half-assed "It'S aBoUt EtHiCs In pLaUsAbiLiTy" dodge, an actual answer.

 

[WereCatf]

Link me to the post where you answered my specific questions. Not a half-assed "It'S aBoUt EtHiCs In pLaUsAbiLiTy" dodge, an actual answer.

Mate, just let go already. Either that guy is a troll, stringing you along, or so determined in the correctness of their opinion that not even all the logic and reasoning in the entire world could reach him in the dark recesses of his own rectum, and you're just wasting your time and effort.

 

[Snarky Robot]

Mate, just let go already. Either that guy is a troll, stringing you along, or so determined in the correctness of their opinion that not even all the logic and reasoning in the entire world could reach him in the dark recesses of his own rectum, and you're just wasting your time and effort.

Eh.

Generally I like to play with my food, and let people make fools of themselves as long as they want to. It serves my goals because if there's any other question of their ability to engage rationally, I have a nice set of links to show them failing to do so. That said....you're right. I've got what I needed, and there's nothing new that's going to be gained from engaging them directly except to waste everyone else's time.

I am, however, going to continue laughing at needing to know the fucking serial numbers of every batch of stimpacks to accept their plausibility.

 

[traumadog]

It's blatantly shown in the first episode how the surface dwellers conceal their true behaviors from the inhabitants of vault 33.

1) those were Raiders, not Fiends. You missed the point that the original Vault 32’ers did whatever they did to themselves. Those following Moldaver got into the vault afterwards, and portrayed themselves as Vault Dwellers to gain access. The reasoning for that is explained in the final episode.

2) even if you were a cannibal and wanted a meal, would you go after potential prey saying “hey, come here… I wanna eat you!”. Besides, the Raiders even said that the Vault 32 people did it to themselves.

Because he would be dead a long time ago.

What makes you think that? Perhaps the reason he is portrayed that way is because the people who took care of the water filter just died? The games show that aspect, too… besides, why bother with such exposition for a minor character? The point was the interaction, not the reasoning of how both got to where they were at that point

Those are not the problems I talk about. I'm referring to the psychological issues of living in such a confined space for multiple generations. Despite what the show thinks the characters can handle, humans can't tolerate that.

You mean the same psychological issues NASA is working on right now? Because those same issues would need to be dealt with for a lunar or Martian colony, too.

That's the same level of plausibility as the syringe. There's always some kind of "medication soup" that our heroes can take to immediately move on with the story and disregard any consequences of long term hibernation.

Taking some token medications for these things count as shrugging off such injuries.

Several things: While Watney is injured and performs surgery on himself, he has ample and continuous access to medication, sedatives and modern surgical equipment specifically for the task. He lives in a sterile environment with no known infectants.

Hauling dirt into the hab would be easier on Mars due to 38% gravity, and he can haul in as much or as little as he likes at a time on wheeled carts. He can take extra sedatives during demanding tasks.

I don't remember how long it actually takes for him to haul the necessary amount of soil into the hab, maybe around 20 days?

I get carried off track here, sorry, but I don't think the comparison is sound. Fallout trivializes pain and injury in a way The Martian does not.

Oh? Did you SEE Watney take any medication, aside from jabbing himself with a syringe on screen?

And why would you think a multigenerational vault wouldn’t have healthcare facilities? Just because you don’t see Lucy stop and take antibiotic pills offscreen doesn’t mean it didn’t happen - just like you’re presuming what happened with Watney.

Besides, the Hab was most definitely NOT a sterile environment. You need bacteria to fix nitrogen in order for crops to grow. And NASA has never required full microbiome decontamination on anyone going into space.

I don't know if you actually saw The Martian and compared that injury to the one in Fallout. They are vastly different.

Oh? Left lower quadrant puncture wound. Both cases. The aerial was impaled enough in Watney to tug an antenna out of the sand.

He took adrenaline in some form. But, in any case, Batman isn't a plausible story anyway, but it is a very human story in an exploration of depression, anxiety and loneliness.

So you don’t need a plausible story to have an effective one?

Gotcha.

I don't know what to make of this statement. It doesn't make sense. People in real life do not simply carry on with horrendous wounds. Maybe they can have unusual reactions right after injury, but not for very long.

They can function on adrenaline for a few minutes before bleeding out, unless someone like you is there to save them.

You don't stab a dog in the throat with a big knife in a place with zero vet care, give it a syringe and then have it be just fine 2 minutes later.

Yup. Just like you see in dozens, or even hundreds, of movies and TV shows by various mechanisms throughout history.

That’s why it’s a trope.

 

[Snarky Robot]

That’s why it’s a trope.

I don't know. That explanation for why it's a trope doesn't seem very plausible to me.

 

[panton41]

Again, what's the point in that?

This is like watching a videogame being played, except nobody is playing and characters are just being nasty and violent to each other, but the underlying humanity is perhaps or perhaps not there. That is not clear to me.

It's unpleasant to watch, so what's the point?

Are these "things" human at all?

That's a lot of words to say you completely misunderstand the basic premise of the show.

You're REALLY coming across as "Old Man Yells At Clouds" right now.

 

[Peevester]

Arguing about plausibility in freaking Fallout or Fallout related material is one of the stupidest hills to die on I can imagine. Can we please stop replying to this maniac?

 

[garrobon]

Arguing about plausibility in freaking Fallout or Fallout related material is one of the stupidest hills to die on I can imagine. Can we please stop replying to this maniac?

Yeah, it's just a pedant being pedantic. I guess the stereotypes based on those type of people exist for a reason.

 

[traumadog]

Old man, maniac, whatever. Thanks for calling me names. That's really helpful or something.

I will not call you names.

I will end this now, because I cannot communicate my points properly, it seems.

I started out by pointing out how the violence in Fallout is disconnected from human psychology. I believe that firmly. I find it very unsettling. It's actually much more unsettling than watching war footage from Ukraine.

I don't know if you can understand that, but to me it says something about how we understand violence versus how it's perpetrated, and how it's used for entertainment in a TV show. There's an enormous disconnect here, and it's so incredibly sad and distressing to see. It's not funny or entertaining.

Now I've said it, and I've probably not been able to communicate that either. So be it.

Such violence in media is not new. And the fact that there is such violence is part of the point, especially when talking dystopian futures.

Heck, Robocop had arguably the exact same level of on-screen violence, way back in 1987.

So if the depiction of violence really is the reason that you have a complaint with Fallout, then say so and be done with it.

 

[garrobon]

Old man, maniac, whatever. Thanks for calling me names. That's really helpful or something.

I will not call you names.

I will end this now, because I cannot communicate my points properly, it seems.

I started out by pointing out how the violence in Fallout is disconnected from human psychology. I believe that firmly. I find it very unsettling. It's actually much more unsettling than watching war footage from Ukraine.

I don't know if you can understand that, but to me it says something about how we understand violence versus how it's perpetrated, and how it's used for entertainment in a TV show. There's an enormous disconnect here, and it's so incredibly sad and distressing to see. It's not funny or entertaining.

Now I've said it, and I've probably not been able to communicate that either. So be it.

You could have said just that a long time ago and avoided all of the bullshit justifications. I don't think anyone here thinks a TV show like Fallout somehow minimizes or discounts the violence being carried out around the globe.