Windows Update is getting better at saving your PC from buggy drivers
- Thread starter JournalBot
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Why does "The Cloud" need involved in this at all? You download a driver it breaks things (crashes/instability/error logs etc)--Windows already keeps an entire OS upgrade directory rollback already for OS upgrades--why doesn't it just store the old driver that worked? I'm not forgetting, of course, that Windows loves to automatically update drivers without your knowledge/consent Mr. Microsoft.
I change my monitor display settings--Windows doesn't need to consult the cloud, it just says "you changed things, if this is fine click OK or it'll revert in 15 seconds"
I solved these broken Windows drivers and broken Windows driver management things...by not installing Windows on my strix halo minipic
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I mean classic Microsoft:
Error dialogue: "We're sorry it looks like your network driver does not work. Please visit microsoft.com for the latest driver experiences to fix this issue"
User: (primal scream)
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Windows handling of audio is atrocious. Don't even get me started. It cant even efficiently handle switching to headphones for video meetings and back to speakers again without #$%(ing everything up.
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That's a good reason to make weekly drive images. Reinstall the most recent good image and pause updates. Hopefully, also make daily backups of new and changed files. You're set.
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Well, it cant really recover from the cloud if it cant boot can it? I really wish Microsoft would enable features on the OS without half baking them, such as automatic (and enabled by default) UEFI updates which tend to break the boot process because the previous settings are not saved. Many times I needed to travel only for me to disable intel VMD in order to get the afflicted machine working again, or switching from legacy to UEFI.
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I think this would boot from an UEFI menu option and I think that is using a default set of drivers, just like when you choose to restore Windows. I think...
Like Apple does it, basically.
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jonbob_newcastle
Ars Scholae Palatinae
Do what you would with a bad graphics driver: uninstall it and use the generic one until you can get the proper driver from the manufacturer.
W11 must really be a shitshow, because I never seem to have any of the problems I read about with W10.
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I like the idea and want to see it in action as well as the metrics MS is using for driver health and rollback thresholds. For example, if I'm having an issue, can I manually initiate the rollback process, or are my options only to wait for MS to start the rollback or the current step-by-step dance in Device Manager? Rolling back drivers is a pain, and trying to guide grandma through it over the phone can be a nightmare.
Similar update features are in other MS products, where the app/system health and telemetry are tracked and the process automatically paused or even rollback things when issues are found.
Similar update features are in other MS products, where the app/system health and telemetry are tracked and the process automatically paused or even rollback things when issues are found.
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I know, I was speaking specifically to the "cloud" part. I keep flash drives around for a reason!
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I would hope that Windows Update would get better at something, because the last time I interacted with it (several weeks ago), it had bricked my neighbor's laptop past the point of being restorable. By the grace of God a) I had recorded her recovery key when she first got the machine, and b) her previous tech support guy had set up regular daily backups which miraculously saved the day.
After keying in that 48-character key code uncountable times during the course of an hours-long debugging session, I got it working again, then promptly turned on "metered internet". I have no idea how I will know when, or even if, it will be safe to resume Windows updates. I'm sure there's some security flaw that really, really needs patching, and her internal storage is no longer encrypted. Right now both of those things really feel like the lesser evils.
After keying in that 48-character key code uncountable times during the course of an hours-long debugging session, I got it working again, then promptly turned on "metered internet". I have no idea how I will know when, or even if, it will be safe to resume Windows updates. I'm sure there's some security flaw that really, really needs patching, and her internal storage is no longer encrypted. Right now both of those things really feel like the lesser evils.
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I've found Windows 11 to be very, very stable. Stability generally isn't a problem. The problem is that I (and most people) keep having CoPilot and Bing searches crammed down my throat through every single Microsoft product. I wouldn't be surprised if they start including integrating CoPilot into Notepad at some point. The integration requires that computer touch the internet for basic things like starting a program, which makes everything much slower and laggier than it needs to be.
EDIT: WIndows 11 is also very bloated. The installation size is huge, the updates are generally massive and take forever to install, etc. but this is bloatedness is infecting most software today, unfortunately. Even phone apps that are just wrappers on a web interface (like some banking apps) are easily 250+MB. WTF does a web wrapper needs to be 1/4 of a GB?
EDIT: WIndows 11 is also very bloated. The installation size is huge, the updates are generally massive and take forever to install, etc. but this is bloatedness is infecting most software today, unfortunately. Even phone apps that are just wrappers on a web interface (like some banking apps) are easily 250+MB. WTF does a web wrapper needs to be 1/4 of a GB?
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This is an extension of doing things without your consent. The operating word in "Cloud-Initiated Driver Recovery" is 'initiated.' This is just Microsoft reaching out and changing your drivers again when they find out they've already pushed something buggy.
Personally, I'd prefer your version. Keep a local last-known-good driver, the computer monitors itself for instability, and if it finds a newly borked driver, roll it back. That would also cover a bad network driver. I see no reason this couldn't be feasible.
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My issue is when MS would download driver updates that I had no intention of doing, but I had to because the system nagged me every day. I like to keep things in a known, stable state, and given how MS would just throw updates after being checked with copilot/AI, I wouldn't trust it.
Granted, this doesn't apply directly to me anymore as I've converted to Linux 24/7 on my home computer. And my IT team deals with the stuff at work so yeah.
Granted, this doesn't apply directly to me anymore as I've converted to Linux 24/7 on my home computer. And my IT team deals with the stuff at work so yeah.
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Cloud as in I would download any Linux distro from the cloud and ruin my life rather than giving Microslop control over my gun dam life.
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I'm not someone who's ever had major issues with Windows Update (in my teenage years I was the kind of nerd who enjoyed running DOS defrag and chkdsk on not only my own computer but also those in the school computer labs), but it bothers me a bit that I have Intel's driver updater and Windows Update fight over drivers for my laptop iGPU. It seems like that should be simple enough for MS to fix (and why do I need to use the Intel utility for driver updates anyway?).
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Oh, that ship sailed a while back. https://support.microsoft.com/en-us...-notepad-4088b954-c97b-46dc-813f-959be01746d5
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I guess my previous comment sparked a train of thought, but...why not start working on making Windows immutable? It's already partway there, between automatic rollback points and MSI.
It wouldn't be a "this year" objective, but seems like MS could save everyone--including themselves--a lot of headaches in the long run.
It wouldn't be a "this year" objective, but seems like MS could save everyone--including themselves--a lot of headaches in the long run.
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and I never seem to have any of the problems I read about with W11. it works fine for me.
but, people were saying the same things about W10 when it was the latest. people always hate the new Windows and always enjoy telling the world that it's the worst thing ever. it's been like that since Win98.
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And now a million comments talking about how awesome uglyass Linux is. Like clock work.
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There are pros and cons to this. Be careful what you wish for.
Immutable can be great IFF: the system-setup and defaults are unintrusive and desirable, and opt-in rather than -out, and rollbacks are smooth. Fedora's UniversalBlue variants are IMO a great example of this.
Immutable can be god awful if: The default system is intrusive and you want/need to modify it to make it usable and then you can't--because of immutability. Most Ars reads would probably scream if Windows 11 OOBE was immutable--as things like ShutUp10 to kill Telemetry/Copilot/ads, or revert the 'new' context menu in Flie Explorer, or any and all the regedits they need/want to make Windows sane or perform well...were suddenly and irreparably broken. It would be like having an office-deployment work computer at home you couldn't fix or modify at an OS level.
Note how the former is IFF and the later is only if.
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With a pretty blue overlay with an option to select wifi network and a button with label "magically fix compooter"
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When discussing pros/cons of an operating system, you would expect some comparisons to other operating systems to provide some context and benchmarking. Bringing up Linux is perfectly valid, although I would argue that the actual Linux distro and how it's managed matters more than just the fact that it's "Linux".
Windows is successful because of it's deep integration with Microsoft's enterprise management tools, Microsoft's cloud offerings, etc. You can ship a bare-bones PC from an OEM straight to any user anywhere in the world, and easily provision it and then monitor/lock it down with Windows. That user can be up and running in 1 hour with their Office Documents, Teams Meetings, Sharepoint access, Microsoft Authenticator MFA, etc. This is a very large moat that no other OS can touch and ensures Microsoft's dominance in large corporations. The vast majority of corporate employees only need email, Office products, and browser access to various hosted/cloud "portals".
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A friendly PSA that your preferred debloater e.g. Winhance can disable all this solution-looking-for-a-problem garbage.
As others have said, broken drivers have been a solved problem since XP. Just undo the Windows Update or use "system restore". You should never need a network connection to fix a bad update.
As others have said, broken drivers have been a solved problem since XP. Just undo the Windows Update or use "system restore". You should never need a network connection to fix a bad update.
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I solved this problem by installing Linux.
Timeshift works VERY well to restore function lost to an update. Better still, updates are not forced on me. I do them if something goes wonky with what I already have, meaning something else got updated. And then I'm very careful about what I update, believing in the "if it ain't broke, don't fix it" approach to life.
I had too many issues with Windows and Microsoft treating MY expensive gear like they owned it. Once Linux turned out to meet all of my computing needs, I just didn't bother installing Windows again on my new machine. It might not have all the bells and whistles they throw into Windows. But that's kind of the point. Linux has all the bells and whistles an OS actually needs. And any "bloatware" you get in Linux, you had to put in there yourself.
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Eh, I'd say it is much more institutional inertia. But that is my reading. People who manage Windows deployments get grumpy at all the oddball inexplicable things that happen at scale. Users hate Teams and often Sharepoint gets negative vibes. and so on. But--devil you know and are invested in, both monetarily and in knowledge base. Given all the antagonism from enthusiasts and users--if people organized they could FOSS collaboration tools like Office or Creative Cloud has for LibreOffice on Linux...but, it is like getting Americans to not rely on carrier-messaging and adopt platform-agnostic things like WhatsApp or Signal or what have you; it is the default everyone uses which results in chicken-and-egg of inertia and adoption.
Well...right up until there are larger macro-level reasons to dump Microsoft. See France and other countries wanting to free themselves of US tech monopoly dependence. Which, yea I totally support. Or, all the enshittification of its products and services. Or the spyware. Etc.
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I got a better way to fix things when they do break. Disable Windows Update using 3rd party software, registry changes or folder permissions before they break.
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The Windows 11 updates KB5083769 and KB5083631 both disabled disk imaging for all third-party tools that rely on VSS, such as Macrium Reflect, EaseUS. MS also confirmed that some devices may boot into BitLocker recovery mode after installing KB5082063.
Great! My drivers are safe, but the PC is stuck in recovery mode, previous drive images may not be accessible, and it can no longer be imaged with current software... Oh, wait, this PC dual-boots Windows 10 and Linux, so I have no issues.
Great! My drivers are safe, but the PC is stuck in recovery mode, previous drive images may not be accessible, and it can no longer be imaged with current software... Oh, wait, this PC dual-boots Windows 10 and Linux, so I have no issues.
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Sigh, I've had driver updates on an 8 day delay via Group Policies since the first day of Windows 10. Sickening how they don't care when user data is permanently deleted by practially untested code!
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macOS MDM ZeroTouch deployment would like a word.
(Presuming of course that the user doesn't need Windows, and it's not in a country without an Apple vendor, and... etc etc). But it's pretty close to magic when it does work.
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jonbob_newcastle
Ars Scholae Palatinae
Such comments are usually unhelpful and made purely for performative reasons.
In any thread concerning a problem with Windows there will inevitably be a few posters who think it’s the height of wit to glibly suggest moving to Linux as an answer. It’s about as useful as going to the doctor because it hurts when you bend over only to be told “then don’t try to bend over”, or asking someone for help fixing the brakes on your car and being told to ride a bike instead.
Don’t get me wrong, Windows has a lot of problems, but the likes of ‘LOL I just Linux’ only serve to decrease the signal to noise ratio in a thread.
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I don't disagree that Microsoft has become synonymous with US hegemony. But managing security access levels, user accounts, and device control using a loose collection of independent software and cloud services is much harder than having a 100% pure Microsoft shop. This isn't a big deal in a home or small/medium business environment, but it becomes very challenging as you scale up higher than that, especially once you cross borders and become international. From a cost perspective, going 100% Microsoft can also be much more cost effective and it makes things significantly easier for billing and accounting, and managing the regulatory and compliance paperwork for 1 large entity is MUCH easier than managing the T&Cs, compliance, InfoSec reviews, etc for a large list of smaller shops. Microsoft's Office also has collaboration features that LibreOffice, for example, can't even come close to.
I'm not tooting Microsoft's horn here. Microsoft seriously needs some competition to get them to stop huffing their own fumes and to start taking QA seriously. Various countries in Europe are starting down this path but it will take a large effort towards unifying the efforts into a single "platform" so that network effects can take hold and larger businesses can start gravitating towards a solution as well. There are alternatives right now, but frankly speaking, they SUCK for large enterprise customers. The value of Microsoft isn't just Windows, or just Office, or just their Azure-based SaaS offerings, but the package as a whole.
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Slightly off topic but one thing that has really annoyed me over the past few years is that if I update my graphics drivers, Windows will then want to install the ones from windows update instead which are older.
No option to block the update either like in the W7 days.. Instead there's just a basic crappy new settings panel with no control.
No option to block the update either like in the W7 days.. Instead there's just a basic crappy new settings panel with no control.
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