What would a cheap, Apple A18-powered MacBook actually be good at?
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this reeks of a tim cook "supply chain optimization" product rather than an actual desirable product.
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Actually… it does. I have never run into anyone claiming to have logged into iCloud.com to use their Pages or Numbers web apps, but the option is certainly there. Apple keeps the web version more or less in sync with the App Store Version. They even have an online version of Maps, Music, News and Apple TV (for some reason not linked through the iCloud portal - probably the biggest evidence Apple has severe territory wars).
Just goes to show the brand is very weak that nobody knows it is there.
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There are a lot of people who would buy Mac if there was a budget Mac. People who buy $400 laptops, may buy a Mac if there is a $400 Mac. Same with businesses. Using Mac is prohibitive to businesses that require super low overhead to rise due to the fact that there is no low end Mac. I have a M2 MacBook Air, base model. I bought it to learn to use Apple products, I don't mind that it can run some games but I really didn't need a $1300 laptop.
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A base iPad goes for $349. Cannibalizing it with just about anything would be a top-line improvement for Apple. No less important is the fact that any iPad replaced by an A18 Mac would be an iPad that wasn’t replaced by a Chromebook.
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Corporations are often under some sort of shareholder pressure to cover product niches, even a company like Apple. As long as the primary categories aren’t cannibalized too much, they might like a new low end Mac.
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I wonder if this hypothetical machine would use an (iBook-style) polycarbonate case to keep costs down. That would be cute. Might be more rugged for the edu market that way also.
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(meekly raises hand)
I used a Numbers spreadsheet to plan my vacation schedule last summer, and used the web app a few times when I needed to see it from another computer. I don’t know that I’d ever pay for the convenience, but it did help in that one situation.
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Apple needs a student friendly relatively rugged laptop way more than an executive super-thin-and-light. I would hope this laptop will prioritize price over being thin and light.
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This is an old lesson. If someone is going to be cannibalizing Apple's sales, it might as well be Apple. Apple does know how to make margin, it is just a matter of setting the right requirements.
As long the laptop is cheap enough to sell, still have good margins, but low enough specs that the MBA is still desirable, all is good
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The only reasoning I can imagine is that selling discounted M1/M2 MBAs is hurting sales of current generations, because the performance difference in basic computing is simply negligible.
By stripping down the entry-level they might be trying to better differentiate the entry-level from basic to pro offerings. In order for this work, the price difference must be substantial because there's still unsold stock being sold below 1000$/€.
By stripping down the entry-level they might be trying to better differentiate the entry-level from basic to pro offerings. In order for this work, the price difference must be substantial because there's still unsold stock being sold below 1000$/€.
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ubercurmudgeon
Ars Tribunus Militum
Eventually they're going to want to drop support for M1 and M2 Airs, and the longer they keep selling them, the further into the future that pushes the date for doing so. Great for us, bad for Apple shareholders. Replace those older models with something new, but comparable in power so they don't cannibalize their higher-end models, and they can start the countdown clock. They've got the expertise on-staff, and they've had to design the A18 anyway, so the engineering spend might not be all that high.
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I think people are missing the point of this product. US economic numbers are terrible. Wages are down, consumer spending is down, job openings are down. We just haven't seen the impact yet because there's sufficient slack in the system to keep prices in line as everyone waits to figure out where the situation is going to land (because it changes constantly). Apple is preparing to retain customers by moving downmarket, and after tariffs this product might come in close to the current entry price point.
Apple has a history of retaining withered processors to move down market, but there's a cost to keep TSMC making those in relatively small volumes. Using a recent A series chip trades out the cost of maintaining an expensive fab line for maintaining an additional MacOS build. Given the A18 is faster than an M1, it's not a bad trade-off in that regard.
I don't think this is indicative of an expansion to capture additional marketshare, but a way to hold onto existing customers heading into a stagflation environment. Apple has pretty good economists in house. They've managed currency markets for decades. They know what's coming.
Apple has a history of retaining withered processors to move down market, but there's a cost to keep TSMC making those in relatively small volumes. Using a recent A series chip trades out the cost of maintaining an expensive fab line for maintaining an additional MacOS build. Given the A18 is faster than an M1, it's not a bad trade-off in that regard.
I don't think this is indicative of an expansion to capture additional marketshare, but a way to hold onto existing customers heading into a stagflation environment. Apple has pretty good economists in house. They've managed currency markets for decades. They know what's coming.
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Wow, that's an amazing show of ignorance! Apple has free email, office apps and some storage. What's more the free office are are proper on the machine apps not web apps. Let me introduce you to Pages, Numbers, Keynote and Mail. These are also available free on iPad and iPhone and they all synch across devices via iCloud. There are even web app versions that can be used by Apple account holders (free) that wish to use Windows or Linux.
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Maybe it wont have any ports at all and be charged wirelessly - gives them a cheap laptop to sell and prevents cannibalisation of higher spec laptops. Also more rugged for education etc.
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Considering that I use a 2011 first gen Asus Zenbook for all my daily basic browsing and computing needs (dual core hyper threaded 4gb ram 128gb ssd) an A18 based laptop from Apple would certainly be capable of supporting basic users. The only reason I can think of that they -wouldn't- do something like this would be (as mentioned) they would cannibalize their more premium offerings. It would however introduce far more people into their ecosystem - I guess they'd have to balance their long term goals with short term profits and see if it makes sense.
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I'll take one in the old 12" macbook sized case (with smaller bezels, slightly bigger screen). 8GB is fine for what i'd use it for. 16GB can be offered for those who want that. I'd be happy with something like the composite Lenovo use on the X1 - lighter than aluminium, doesn't dent and no sharp scratchy edges when you throw it in a bag with other things.
800-900g base, still under a kg with a charger and it will be in my backback everytime I leave the house. I don't need cellular, I can tether when I need it.
800-900g base, still under a kg with a charger and it will be in my backback everytime I leave the house. I don't need cellular, I can tether when I need it.
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I won't try to predict whether such a product, if it comes to market, will be a success.
However, I can't deny that I've gotten more Spindler-era vibes out of Apple in the past year or so than I have for a long time. A lot of stuff being thrown at the wall, and more of them landing with a thud than is usually expected with Apple, which made its latter day reputation by hitting the target.
What will they call such a machine? Maybe a Performa?
However, I can't deny that I've gotten more Spindler-era vibes out of Apple in the past year or so than I have for a long time. A lot of stuff being thrown at the wall, and more of them landing with a thud than is usually expected with Apple, which made its latter day reputation by hitting the target.
What will they call such a machine? Maybe a Performa?
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I know my wife would love it if they released a machine small and light enough to rival the old 12" Macbook from 2017. That's her current laptop and, aside from its age, it's just enough machine for what she needs. I have no doubt that a modern A-series chip would be faster and more capable than the garbage Intel CPU she's got in there now.
I have much different computing needs so I have a macbook pro but I'm constantly jealous of the size and weight of her laptop. It's remarkable.
I have much different computing needs so I have a macbook pro but I'm constantly jealous of the size and weight of her laptop. It's remarkable.
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I think you’re missing that the costs outside of the processor are almost certainly much higher for the iPhone.
iPhone has 3-4 cameras that are all nicer than the FaceTime camera. It has the faceID tech, it has a cellular modem (which until they cut out Qualcomm costs them more depending on the price of the product).
For materials MacBooks are made from recycled old Apple products. The iPhone is made from titanium. They prolly end up surprisingly equal in costs even though it requires more material to make a MacBook. The manufacturing is more intense in a smaller scale and including sealing for the ipx ratings.
Finally, there’s scale. Apple manufactures waaaay more a series chips than m series chips, so prolly cheaper on volume.
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euskalzabe
Wise, Aged Ars Veteran
Well, yeah, that’s obvious. It’ll be a great option for many people if they sell it for cheaper than M versions, though you can find older ones new for less that. $700 so they’ll have to find another “hook” other than price.
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InfiniteJester
Ars Centurion
This is the part of this idea that confuses me. It would seem (to me) that dropping an M[x-2] chip in the MBA would be easier. Especially since the iPad Air is already doing exactly this.
I suppose an A-class chip draws less power than an M-class chip? Maybe that’s the plan? Lower power draw for smaller batter for thinner/lighter?
I dunno.
My crazy theory is that it’s an iPad stuffed in a MacBook’s guts so people can now buy an iPad with the keyboard already built-in. But again, I’d use an M-chip to do this as well.
So
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We're not certain that any of these deficiencies would be present in such a machine.
My guess is a machine closer in spirit top the old plastic macBooks, aimed at mass sales (schools, low end market) and the like.
What makes good? I don't know. Think iPad with integrated screen and keyboard.
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My FireWire camera is over 25 years old. Not touched for 18 years. So can you imagine how much I care about Apple dropping FireWire support? Zero.
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InfiniteJester
Ars Centurion
The nostalgia in me would love to see a model based on the white/black plastic ones. Modernized, thinner, etc
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You used to be able to repair your cpu by replacing a circuit board or two also.
However that seems kind of irrelevant in 2025.
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Sure, I guess. That said, if you're still using FW HDs you might want to back those old drives up onto something less likely to fail soon. Are people still transferring video over FW?
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Yeah! It would help differentiate these hypothetical laptops from Apple's 'professional' machines too. That said, the machining- & development costs may be too much for Tim?
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While I’m not particularly salty myself, there are (were?) perfectly serviceable, relatively high end, image scanners that use FireWire. We have one in the ad hoc “lending library” of one of my local photo critique circles. I plan to configure a “vintage” computer specifically (and exclusively) for the scanner, and add that to the collection.
I remember doing the same thing for SCSI scanners when FireWire pushed them out. Technology moves on. So it goes.
There isn’t “more news” about this because anyone who’s been paying attention knew that FireWire was living on borrowed time. The peripherals are aging out. While it may be a profound loss to some, the number truly affected will be very few.
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I doubt Apple would be heavily promoting web apps. They don't need to, as they have a powerful chip and they have good native apps that can run on their OS already. They would be iCloud-enabled, but probably just their native Mac or iPad apps running via Catalyst.
There's also probably a lot of details that are missing here as this is very un-Apple like. If they're going to make a budget Mac, they'll have to have a more compelling argument for it than just "it's cheaper and slower".
That was what Apple was avoiding during the "netbook" days. Instead of just a cheap laptop like the ASUS Eee PC netbooks with Intel Atom, small screens, and crap keyboards, they introduced the MacBook Air which was super thin and portable with decent battery life, full-sized keyboards, and a good screen (for the time).
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Why would there be news about dropping support for something that the few Intel Macs still supported by Tahoe don't even have?
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One thing not mentioned in this article, it could potentially be an "education special" model like the old eMacs from long ago that were never really sold to the public.
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No, I think you're a troll. Trolls do not belong on my screen.
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Well, if one factors for inflation, it seems to me that this rumor has already sort of come true. Think about it: $1000 TODAY would be the equivalent of closer to $500-600 20 years ago, right? If they held the price the same for 20 years, then every year they made their cheapest product incrementally cheaper due to inflation.
What else can you think of that is the same price today as 20 years ago?
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internet2000
Ars Centurion
So whatever this ends up being, we know it won't be built with crappy flexing plastic and will not have a 1366x768 screen.
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You couldn't be more wrong. "And" is a strong way to start a sentence. And further, it has been since the depths of time. I suggest you pick up a copy of "Miss Thistlebottom's Hobgoblins."
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This makes sense, I'm a little surprised that Apple has kept making M1 and M2 MacBook Airs available (or that there was such a stockpile of them) and lower prices. They've been the de facto 'budget' MacBook for 2-3 years now.
There's probably some cost savings to reap by engineering a laptop to be a bit cheaper from the get go, rather than just relying on the slowly lowering cost of older tech. This could also be because they're planning to require certain features that the M1 lacks within a couple of years for OS updates, and don't want to be selling a laptop right up to the last minute that doesn't support the OS going forward. This gets them onto a modern SoC with while keeping costs down (smaller chip) but keeping good performance (better node and plenty of architectural improvements).
If they are doing this wanting to push the AI side of things, it also means they may not be able to skimp too much on RAM, which is the only place I'm really worried.
There's probably some cost savings to reap by engineering a laptop to be a bit cheaper from the get go, rather than just relying on the slowly lowering cost of older tech. This could also be because they're planning to require certain features that the M1 lacks within a couple of years for OS updates, and don't want to be selling a laptop right up to the last minute that doesn't support the OS going forward. This gets them onto a modern SoC with while keeping costs down (smaller chip) but keeping good performance (better node and plenty of architectural improvements).
If they are doing this wanting to push the AI side of things, it also means they may not be able to skimp too much on RAM, which is the only place I'm really worried.
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