Volkswagen halts ID. 4 production and sales due to bad door handles
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As someone who doesn't really go for cars with the latest doors, what is unique about the ID4 that an electronics failure could actually cause the door to open? I can see water ingress triggering the door to unlock, but every car door I have used (outside of sliding mini van ones) still require mechanical actuation to unlatch and open. Are the ID4's doors actually motorized and can open on their own?
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Honestly, the lack of communication from VW on the sales-stopping recalls is problematic. We own an ID.4. We've known about the software recall for the dash going blank while driving for months and still nothing. Now there's this issue and I'm not expecting to hear much until the start of 2025.
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Go look at a list of recalls. It's mostly mundane "solved" stuff. Sometimes it's a result of a failed manufacturing process, sometimes it's an overlooked design component. Things happen. What matters is making it right.
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How complicated are they? Do they pop out or something? Visually looks like old school handles where there's just a gap to reach under and pull the handle.
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To be fair, I like normal keyless entry (ie, fob that detects close proximity when you trigger the handle), and I'm assuming that needs a circuit board of some sort. But...it's also basically a solved problem - it's been a thing for over a decade and never seen issues with it.
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More importantly, what matters is not fucking up so bad in the first place that you screw up a DOOR HANDLE.
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The picture caption says "Instead of giving the ID.4 complicated door handles that recess into the side of the car, VW has designed these to be flush yet always accessible."
So essentially, handles that work normally, but are embedded into the door instead of sticking out of it. The idea being to get the aero benefits without adding complexity.
Sadly, "new" always means risky, because making things at scale is hard; the new design seemed fine in the factory, but on the order of 12 times in 100,000 cars, moisture seems to have got through. Let's hope they can create (and promptly communicate) a plan to fix it.
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I'm thinking the handle doesn't have any mechanical connection to the door latch and when used it just sends a signal to the latch to open allowing the door to open. Water is probably getting in the handle and completes the connection as if the handle was pulled and unlatching the door.
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I also remember my parents' first few cars lacking airbags, ABS, or even rear seatbelts, to mention only a few safety measures. I won't debate the fact that increased complexity can lead to increased points of failure, but the "life used to be better" trope is objectively untrue unless you have a very skewed worldview. It reminds me of people longing for the good old times of the Portuguese dictatorship when everyone was polite and orderly, conveniently forgetting that the vast majority of the population was illiterate and poor, or that we had 19th century-worthy infant mortality.
By the way, if you want a car with fewer electronics, you can always buy one used. You know what you can't do? Go back to those better days and buy a car with fancy electronics. Advantages of modern life, I guess.
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Fairly annoying that they're not safe enough to sell but apparently safe enough for me to continue to drive everyday? With no ETA and no mitigation. I've defended VW and generally like my ID.4, but this is pretty ridiculous.
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The recall itself says a fault could cause an open command to be sent to the door lock which makes a little more sense. NHTSA doesn't like doors spontaneously unlocking even if they don't directly open. This is also a security issue.
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I don’t know why the makers of electric vehicles insist on modernising everything and giving everything a high-tech sheen, but I do wish there was more choice of traditionally-designed cars (including analogue controls and dials!) with an electric drive train.
Maybe that’s just me?
Maybe that’s just me?
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They couldn't just use the handles from a Golf or whatever SUV they sell? Or are ALL VW door handles shit?
They had to make some new design cause reasons?
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If only every manufacturer of EVs didn't feel the need to reinvent the wheel door handle.
Mechanical ones were fine. Electronic ones offer zero advantages and more potential problems.
Mechanical ones were fine. Electronic ones offer zero advantages and more potential problems.
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Yeah I'm always a bit leery of electronics/software engineers trying to do everything in software. Nothing wrong with pushrods or wires for direct action plus an electronic servo for automation for stuff that just needs to work.
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I have a Honda Accord Hybrid, and one of the most appealing things about it was how normal it was. Normal door handles, wiper controls, headlight controls. No touch-sensitive buttons. Physical climate controls. A normal shifter. You can get into it and know how to operate everything without experimentation or reading the manual.
Make a PHEV or an EV like that when I'm ready to replace it and I'll be right there. I don't know that there's a single EV on the market right now that doesn't have some stupid change for the sake of change that makes usability worse.
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At least the doors are opening on their own, so you can escape in case of a collision or other issue. Tesla vehicles turn into your coffin because when their handles fail it locks you in.
Also, at least VW knows it's a problem and is solving it. Tesla claims their doors are a feature.
Also, at least VW knows it's a problem and is solving it. Tesla claims their doors are a feature.
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Ah good call.
Stupid fucking design but yeah; I can see that being a thing for car company clowns.
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This seems like something they could work around with an OTA. Modify the software to ignore exterior door handle inputs if the car is rolling at all, warn if the handle is acting up, and warn louder if the door does end up unlatched while stopped. Then they could turn do this as a service campaign rather than a stop-sale. Unless I'm missing something here? Maybe what I'm missing is that OTAs aren't that easy for them.
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Probably the only 'fair' answer. Going back to the style of recessed door handles used in the 90's for the aerodynamic benefit doesn't mean we can go back to the days of cavemen when we opened car doors with a key made of metal.
Lots of stuff on EVs is designed to minimize weight and give maximum aerodynamics in order to offset the battery weight and capacity. It may look simple enough, but it is one more thing that had to be engineered differently than how they've been doing door handles for the last ... 25 years?
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I've personally never like flush-mounted door handles. It felt more like a style design choice than a design for the slight drag coefficient gain.
I also wonder how helpful they are when ice forms over them in harsh winters. My handle of choice is a horizontal pull handle that you can put your whole hand around. Even since a plastic lift handle of a previous car snapped off in some serious cold, a full pull is my preferred handle!
I also wonder how helpful they are when ice forms over them in harsh winters. My handle of choice is a horizontal pull handle that you can put your whole hand around. Even since a plastic lift handle of a previous car snapped off in some serious cold, a full pull is my preferred handle!
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VW has had door handle problems in the past. I've owned a couple that I ended up having to replace door handles on when they were less than ten years old. They loved complicated cam designs made out of pot metal.
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So is this just the special US rain causing the doors to malfunction or is there a corresponding recall and manufacturing stop in the EU?
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VW AG (writ large) has a poor history with stop sales involving these edge cases-- things that are very unlikely and if they do happen it's not particularly likely to be dangerous if you're operating the vehicle normally-- but they're not zero risk either.
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He just ask about door handle. Something that already secure enough even with pure mechanical only.
Adding electronics in door handle may get better in quality of life. But in this case is opposite.
Something already secure becomes dangerous thing.
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Yes, yes they did. Aerodynamic ones.
Flush-mounted door handles are either stupidly old-school or for aerodynamic reasons on an EV. Even back in the 90's VW didn't tend to use them. EVs forced their hand.
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I would assume they only stop deliveries, because it's easier and cheaper to fix before it arrives at the costumer.
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Yes, American exceptionalism also applies to the rain. Our droplets are just harder working...
ETA: from the recall:
"The recall population was determined by production records starting from Start of
Production of the ID.4 for the U.S. market in the Zwickau (Germany) and the
Chattanooga (U.S.) production plant until the current end of Production in both plants
for the U.S. market."
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I have to admit that it makes me really curious about the failure method. Just being flush-mounted doesn't seem like a significant enough change to matter.
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The 'handle' doesn't move, there is a pressure switch on the inside that releases the door latch. I can imagine moisture causing an errant connection triggering the door latch release.
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Really glad to see this part of the story. My first thought after seeing the title was to think about the workers. Hopefully, this problem gets fixed pretty quickly.
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Can't they just use some god dam normal door handles? Motorised, hidden or even no-door-handle at all (Ford Mustang Mach e). I get it if you reinvent something to improve it, but these motorized door handles are a pain in the ass to use. I guess they need to justify the cost increase somehow and a basic door handle can't do that.
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For years, every VW and BMW, and more than a few Mercedes, would have windows that would fall down into the door because they refused to use the simpler and more robust regulators that other OEMs use.
The European automakers are better than they used to be, but this is the kind of thing--complexity in the face of declining returns--that they've had challenges with for at least three decades.
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