US government finds new excuse to stop construction of offshore wind

Korios

Ars Scholae Palatinae
1,496
The records in the case indicate that it has had no substantive reasons for reversing decades-old policies and overruling past decisions, and that internally, the decision-making process appears to consist entirely of noting that the president doesn’t like wind power
Whatever TACO doesn't like should be illegal. Classified DoD report my patoutie...
 
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8 (9 / -1)

johnnoi

Ars Tribunus Militum
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Uh huh.

This comes right after trumps social media company is joining with a nuclear company.

Wind and solar are being blocked because trump and republicans personally profit off ruining American power generation.
The nuclear company is some kind of Fusion nuclear do likely it's a scam of some kind. Maybe diaper Donnie will lose a shit ton of money investing in fusion.
 
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5 (8 / -3)

RGMBill

Ars Scholae Palatinae
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Coastal Virginia is the only one of those with a reasonable known issue that DoD has any say in, as that site is close to the VaCapes operational area and actually is close to major DoD radar sites, specifically the VaCapes radars, Oceana NAS, Langley AFB, Norfolk Naval Base (NOB), Wallops Island (though that's a bit North), and various other significant National Defense assets.

The others aren't. The only one you can possibly assert has National Defense implications only has those implications if you assume a ground based Golden Dome situation, with major East Coast defense and interceptors on Long Island to defend New York City. Nantucket isn't viable for defending Boston, to my knowledge; did they even have Bomarc or other defense systems there back in the 1950s or 1960s?

Some (Federal) court is going to demand access to assess whether this is just another tactic to circumvent the court orders. Woe unto the peons that try to do that; it looks like a blatant contempt of court situation if they find there is no actual basis or that the basis is the ground clutter radar effect that DoD has already identified aren't sufficiently serious to negate. Heck, most of the Virginia based DoD sites that would be affected are already trying to generate renewable power and were anxious for Coastal Virginia to come on line so that they can have assured power access during a crisis such as when Hurricane Isabel hit in 2003 and took most of Hampton Roads (where all of those bases bar Wallops Island) off grid for a week due to the loss of major power transmission lines. (Isabel is technically the record holder for highest wind speed ever recorded, 233 MPH, although that was while still at sea; she hit just south of Hampton Road, on the Outerbanks of NC, but sliced through the region immediately south and immediately west of Hampton Roads, destroying much of the power transmission lines leading from Central Virginia and Eastern North Carolina; we were without power for 7 days, living directly outside Oceana NAS).
 
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Isn’t Pinky already in charge of the U.S.? Narf!

Shit we wish. Pinky was a blathering idiot but at least had compassion and cared about the well being of others.
Ninja'd - that was pretty much exactly what I was going to say. If given a choice between being ruled by Trump, or being ruled by Pinky, I'd choose Pinky without a moment's hesitation; at least he's prepared to at least try to do the right thing by others. I'll take compassionate idiocy over outright malignancy, any day.
 
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johnnoi

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I've been trying to figure out any kind of actual, real, intelligent justification for NOT diversifying our power generation capabilities as a nation. You know, trying to find the 'why' behind all the vitriol Republicans aim toward renewables. The advantages that come from advancing technology and spreading out the generation of electricity through as many channels as possible are enormous. And the disadvantages are .... well as far as I can tell there literally are NO disadvantages.

So unfortunately, I believe the only logical conclusion is the one you've drawn. What a sad reality.
Yet Texas, the reddest state of all, gets 30% of their power from wind.
 
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forkspoon

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Subscriptor++
There is, of course, no national security threat, just like there is no “emergency” trade deficit, or border crisis, or waves of undocumented criminals roaming the nation. Emergency is just a word that bypasses checks on executive power.

The modern right wing does not care about norms, or even the definitions of words. As embodied by Trump, the guiding principle of the GOP is “I get what I want, and I don’t care how”. Much as one might observe in toddlers.

Of course there are many reasons we have rules. Toddlers need to be told what those are. It’s not necessary for them to like the rules, or even understand them. But they will absolutely understand the rules are meaningless if they can be violated without consequences.

Meanwhile, what counts as “classified”? Effectively anything the president says**. So the admin can make this claim without any substantive thought or consideration from DoD.


**though illegitimate as a broad policy, this is one of the many consequences of the Unitary Executive fantasy
 
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DarthSlack

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The nuclear company is some kind of Fusion nuclear do likely it's a scam of some kind. Maybe diaper Donnie will lose a shit ton of money investing in fusion.

Just like the rest of what he does, Trump isn't putting a dime of his own money in the venture. This is just a way to bribe Trump for favorable treatment in regulations and US gov contracts.
 
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18 (19 / -1)

ranthog

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15,358
I give them about a 0% chance with the district court here. Magically suddenly having "classified" concerns that were never previously a concern until their joke of a defense was thrown out of course is silly. Doubly difficult when for some of these projects all the hardware is already installed and if abandoned it won't be any better.
 
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just another rmohns

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Yeah. What happens if we get in a war with Denmark and then one of our warships accidentally runs into a wind turbine, and because of that, we lose the war and Denmark annexes Massachusetts? That would be unacceptable, thus offshore wind turbines are a national security risk and must be banned.
As a Massachusetts resident, I welcome our new Danish overlords.
 
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OldEnuf2kno

Smack-Fu Master, in training
57
Subscriptor
Of course there is a national security threat! We're acquiring oil from Venezuela, currently sitting in a ship in the Gulf of Mexico America. And we're going to be acquiring more of them. Nobody in their right mind is going to buy that oil from us. We have to use it. Getting rid of those pesky wind farms will ensure a market for that oil.
(hopefully satire)
 
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icrf

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Empire Wind, an 800 MW farm being built off New York, was stopped by the Department of the Interior, which alleged that it had been rushed through permitting.

Isn't this the party that's all about slashing regulations and fast tracking permitting because it's an impediment to business as useless red tape, especially for energy projects?
 
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ranthog

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Isn't this the party that's all about slashing regulations and fast tracking permitting because it's an impediment to business as useless red tape, especially for energy projects?
It is almost like they've been lying for decades.

On top of that, at some point it has to be too late to bring up these types of concerns. Given at least a couple of these projects are almost complete, its pretty much impossible for significantly more harm to be done. Especially when the greatest risks would be during construction.
 
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Post content hidden for low score. Show…
Uh huh.

This comes right after trumps social media company is joining with a nuclear company.

Wind and solar are being blocked because trump and republicans personally profit off ruining American power generation.
The sad part is some of the fossil fuel companies started making the transition and could be raking in the profits if they would double down. Unfortunately the president doesn't like they way they look, so they can't continue. That's literally what this is about. He doesn't like how wind turbines look over the horizon. I have them all around me. I love them because I know how much revenue they bring in for local economies. I see a different kind of green from them. I know of one area that outright banned them and guess which area is having problems staying funded.
 
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25 (25 / 0)
Color me surprised that he didn't undo that EO immediately after entering office the first time, simply because it came from Obama.
From what I’ve found, he hasn’t replaced it yet. The all-knowing Wiki still shows it as the most recent EO on classified information.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Executive_Order_13526

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Classified_information_in_the_United_States
it's classified because of the national security risks related to letting the world know how stupid our president is.
That’s what EO 13526 is supposed to prevent (bolding mine):
Sec. 1.7. Classification Prohibitions and Limitations. (a) In no case shall
information be classified, continue to be maintained as classified, or fail
to be declassified in order to:

(1) conceal violations of law, inefficiency, or administrative error;
(2) prevent embarrassment to a person, organization, or agency;
(3) restrain competition; or
(4) prevent or delay the release of information that does not require protection in the interest of the national security.
Of course, the most transparently, blatantly corrupt maladministration in United States history doesn’t care about such trifling details.
 
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I loathe the orange fuck-mook as much as any now-patriotic Canadian, but there could be a kernel of truth to consider.

The thing about radar isn't going to be anything to do with airplanes. Sea-level detection for incoming ships... yeah, I could see anything you put offshore interfering. It would suck to have some enemy park a sub behind some towers, closer to your shore than you'd like.

I'm not saying that's why this is happening, or that the concern is valid in a real-world sense (I am not military or a radar specialist), but if you're thinking about being a bigger dickhead in the international playground, I could squint my eyes and see some sense to it.

I mean, the solution is to stop making yourself a bigger pariah nation, but Trumpstein and friends don't see value in getting along with anyone.
Honestly, the more I think about this, the stupider the reasoning gets. If he were to work with these companies, our military could probably build detection nets into the turbine infrastructure which could likely enhance our detection of military assets in the open seas. There are some considerations to be made with frequencies and rotation speed of the turbines, but being tied to those structures would again be an asset where information could be collected and utilized to enhance knowledge of the area.
 
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omarsidd

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Maga's "it's an emergency!" excuse for everything continues, but now it's a "secret emergency" because they realize how bald-faced and stupid each of their attempts thus far sounds to anybody with any reasoning skills.

The worst people trying their best to harm all of us, for the most shallow of motivations.
Concerned humans should consider maga their enemy.
 
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azazel1024

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Subscriptor
Don't federal judges get access to classified information if it's related to a case?

So, you could ask a federal judge to review the order and the information to check the validity of it, even if you don't have clearance.
Depends. The government CAN claim it is so super secret that even the courts can't review it on national security grounds. However, it is quite likely a judge will rule that the evidence then is voided. Judges aren't giving the government much grace. Nor should they.

This comes just a few weeks after interior lost badly on the arbitrary and capricious nature of the lease cancellations and the pause on new permitting. ANY judge hearing the follow-up case is going to pretty much dismiss the administrations arguments out of hand that suddenly just weeks after getting their balls kicked up between their rib cage that there is now some classified national security reason for needing to revoke the leases. That NO other country in the entire world has considered a concern.

I am sure whatever classified documents are going to be as redacted as the Epstein files if "DoW" (or should it be DOH!) does release them to a judge for review.

Something tells me the latest move isn't likely to stand up in court.
 
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Of course there is a national security threat! We're acquiring oil from Venezuela, currently sitting in a ship in the Gulf of Mexico America. And we're going to be acquiring more of them. Nobody in their right mind is going to buy that oil from us. We have to use it. Getting rid of those pesky wind farms will ensure a market for that oil.
(hopefully satire)
Given the recent nyt on paid favors I was wondering which oil company paid to attack them.
 
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azazel1024

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Republicans are working hard to keep energy prices high.
Why yes they are. It is going to cost me thousands more to fix up my house to cut my energy bills because of the tax credits suddenly getting yanked on solar, battery, and energy efficiency improvements. And it is going to help keep my electric prices jumping >10% year over year for the next few years. A lot of grids are straight up forecasting rolling blackouts in a few years if data center plans really do go forward and something isn't done about fixing up grids AND expanding power production.

Frankly fossil fuel generation CANNOT expand fast enough to keep pace with estimated new demand. And nuclear is a pipe dream. Hydro is drying up, literally. Companies were moving forward with wind and solar and the expiring industry credits are only going to slow deployment, it won't stop it. But it'll for certain increase rate payer's bills a lot. And it'll hamper residential deployment a lot, which is going to make all those problems worse. And now moves like this to cut hundreds of millions of megawatts of pretty reliable offshore wind is going to likely add billions a year to rate payers bills.
 
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21 (22 / -1)
I'd be perfectly fine with annexation by Denmark at this point.
Can you imagine how pissed off Trump would be if Denmark sent special envoys to Massachusetts, New York, California, or really any of the states that contribute more to the federal government in taxes than they receive in benefits? [And just to really hammer home the message, send an envoy to Louisiana too.] He might get so apoplectic he'd have a stroke!
 
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PsychoArs

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Honestly, the more I think about this, the stupider the reasoning gets. If he were to work with these companies, our military could probably build detection nets into the turbine infrastructure which could likely enhance our detection of military assets in the open seas. There are some considerations to be made with frequencies and rotation speed of the turbines, but being tied to those structures would again be an asset where information could be collected and utilized to enhance knowledge of the area.
Oh, I don't disagree one iota. These would probably be great places to put all kinds of early-detection gear. And/or atmospheric or weather-monitoring.

But this admin doesn't have investments in those things, so no-go. Only thing that goes offshore is leaky oil rigs, ideally coal-powered.
 
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