Uber vice president resigns after sexual misconduct allegations

Cameron Poetzscher steps down less than a month after <em>WSJ</em> report.

Read the whole story

 

[Jehos]

I feel really bad for any women who work(ed) at Uber. It sounds like it's total top-down toxic techbro culture.

 

[Bicentennial Douche]

I dunno, it’s almost starting to look like Uber is a shitty company filled with assholes...

 

[Belisarius]

Uber certainly seems to have a type, don't they?

What a cesspool.

 

[Cognac]

You know, I was just thinking that it had been a while since Uber had cropped up in the news feed. They've certainly been trying to keep their heads down. Alas, sometimes the effects of pure idiocy take a while to manifest.

 

[Sarty]

You spend most of your life time in office, how is it humanly possible that you can't have an affair/relationship built-up atleast once in your life time in office ? I think this no affair policies are farce for any organization.

However this is only my opinion, you are free to educate me incase i have it wrong, request you to please give example.

Full and free consent between employees at substantially different levels of an organization, especially between two employees who are directly above and below each other in a management chain, is impossible. Relationships without full and free consent given by both parties are forbidden by anyone respectable.

I am not aware of any organizations of any substantial size that prohibit relationships between rank-and-file employees at roughly the same level in the organization, especially if they don't work within the same management chain. I think "don't shit where you eat" remains good advice.

Anyway, what a shock, Uber is a gross place with gross men who think they're entitled to stick it wherever they so please.

 

[iPirateEverything]

Hold on, Hold on, Hold on, Hold on...



This is just this week's installment of shit from Uber, I guarantee you we will have other updates from the Uber scum pond before this year is up.

 

[ten91]

Hold on, Hold on, Hold on, Hold on...



This is just this week's installment of shit from Uber, I guarantee you we will have other updates from the Uber scum pond before this year is up.

Was gonna say. This doesn't really surprise me

You spend most of your life time in office, how is it humanly possible that you can't have an affair/relationship built-up atleast once in your life time in office ? I think this no affair policies are farce for any organization.

However this is only my opinion, you are free to educate me incase i have it wrong, request you to please give example.

Full and free consent between employees at substantially different levels of an organization, especially between two employees who are directly above and below each other in a management chain, is impossible. Relationships without full and free consent given by both parties are forbidden by anyone respectable.

I am not aware of any organizations of any substantial size that prohibit relationships between rank-and-file employees at roughly the same level in the organization, especially if they don't work within the same management chain. I think "don't shit where you eat" remains good advice.

Anyway, what a shock, Uber is a gross place with gross men who think they're entitled to stick it wherever they so please.

To add to that. He this was an affair, meaning his wife was at home while this was going on.

 

[mcmnky]

You spend most of your life time in office, how is it humanly possible that you can't have an affair/relationship built-up atleast once in your life time in office ? I think this no affair policies are farce for any organization.

However this is only my opinion, you are free to educate me incase i have it wrong, request you to please give example.

First, don't spend most of your life in the office.

Second, relationships between peers is not the same as relationships between worker and manager. The power dynamic between people of different levels within the company make romantic relationships inherently exploitative.

Does that mean for a high-level executive, where essentially everyone in the company is below them on the org chart, there is no employee with whom a romantic relationship is acceptable?

Yes.

 

[BGGB]

You spend most of your life time in office, how is it humanly possible that you can't have an affair/relationship built-up atleast once in your life time in office ? I think this no affair policies are farce for any organization.

However this is only my opinion, you are free to educate me incase i have it wrong, request you to please give example.

First, don't spend most of your life in the office.

Second, relationships between peers is not the same as relationships between worker and manager. The power dynamic between people of different levels within the company make romantic relationships inherently exploitative.

Does that mean for a high-level executive, where essentially everyone in the company is below them on the org chart, there is no employee with whom a romantic relationship is acceptable?

Yes.

Not sure why people are down-voting this. The abuse of power that is inherent between a boss and someone beneath them is precisely at the center of why these things are or should be prohibited.

If you need to be with someone that much, one of you can quit your job, which is something I've seen happen on more than one occasion.

 

[staskaya]

It's been quite a while last I heard some Uber news and I was about get worried. It's a relief to know everything is as it was out there...

 

[ten91]

You spend most of your life time in office, how is it humanly possible that you can't have an affair/relationship built-up atleast once in your life time in office ? I think this no affair policies are farce for any organization.

However this is only my opinion, you are free to educate me incase i have it wrong, request you to please give example.

First, don't spend most of your life in the office.

Second, relationships between peers is not the same as relationships between worker and manager. The power dynamic between people of different levels within the company make romantic relationships inherently exploitative.

Does that mean for a high-level executive, where essentially everyone in the company is below them on the org chart, there is no employee with whom a romantic relationship is acceptable?

Yes.

Not sure why people are down-voting this. The abuse of power that is inherent between a boss and someone beneath them is precisely at the center of why these things are or should be prohibited.

If you need to be with someone that much, one of you can quit your job, which is something I've seen happen on more than one occasion.

I work with someone whose eventually husband actually took a job at a different company so they could be together without having to worry about that. Both of them were perfectly ok with it because it meant they could.
There are certainly some cases where the connection is genuine. But if it's not, it's a very risky situation as the employee could feel it's genuine and the manager is just using their position to keep them accessible. Or the flip where the manager has genuine feelings, but the employee is using the relationship to their advantage.
No boss/employee dynamic there is no risk of favoritism amongst employees, intended or not.

 

[Sarty]

To add to that. He this was an affair, meaning his wife was at home while this was going on.

Well, this part doesn't really matter -- I'm not aware of any employer but a church which considers infidelity to be an employment concern.

I could be wrong! I don't plan on cheating on anybody, so I've never looked into it.

 

[ten91]

To add to that. He this was an affair, meaning his wife was at home while this was going on.

Well, this part doesn't really matter -- I'm not aware of any employer but a church which considers infidelity to be an employment concern.

I could be wrong! I don't plan on cheating on anybody, so I've never looked into it.

I'm sure the wife would object to that reasoning, church or not. Typically entering marriage a mutual agreement of exclusivity, excluding where both parties express preferring poly arrangements.
So unless they were in an open poly relationship, the wife is certainly going to be quite bothered by the whole thing too.
And in divorce proceedings, your spouse having extramarital affairs can lead to things going in your favor.

 

[DarthSlack]

You spend most of your life time in office, how is it humanly possible that you can't have an affair/relationship built-up atleast once in your life time in office ? I think this no affair policies are farce for any organization.

However this is only my opinion, you are free to educate me incase i have it wrong, request you to please give example.

First, don't spend most of your life in the office.

Second, relationships between peers is not the same as relationships between worker and manager. The power dynamic between people of different levels within the company make romantic relationships inherently exploitative.

Does that mean for a high-level executive, where essentially everyone in the company is below them on the org chart, there is no employee with whom a romantic relationship is acceptable?

Yes.

Not sure why people are down-voting this. The abuse of power that is inherent between a boss and someone beneath them is precisely at the center of why these things are or should be prohibited.

If you need to be with someone that much, one of you can quit your job, which is something I've seen happen on more than one occasion.

It's being downvoted because the Ars commentariat has a large contingent of posters who believe that the workplace should also be their personal brothel. They refuse to understand that non-peer relationships are a serious problem and that most peer level relationships end badly.

 

[ten91]

You spend most of your life time in office, how is it humanly possible that you can't have an affair/relationship built-up atleast once in your life time in office ? I think this no affair policies are farce for any organization.

However this is only my opinion, you are free to educate me incase i have it wrong, request you to please give example.

First, don't spend most of your life in the office.

Second, relationships between peers is not the same as relationships between worker and manager. The power dynamic between people of different levels within the company make romantic relationships inherently exploitative.

Does that mean for a high-level executive, where essentially everyone in the company is below them on the org chart, there is no employee with whom a romantic relationship is acceptable?

Yes.

Not sure why people are down-voting this. The abuse of power that is inherent between a boss and someone beneath them is precisely at the center of why these things are or should be prohibited.

If you need to be with someone that much, one of you can quit your job, which is something I've seen happen on more than one occasion.

It's being downvoted because the Ars commentariat has a large contingent of posters who believe that the workplace should also be their personal brothel. They refuse to understand that non-peer relationships are a serious problem and that most peer level relationships end badly.

There are three downvotes at the time of this post. That's not a lot.

 

[hestermofet]

To add to that. He this was an affair, meaning his wife was at home while this was going on.

Well, this part doesn't really matter -- I'm not aware of any employer but a church which considers infidelity to be an employment concern.

I could be wrong! I don't plan on cheating on anybody, so I've never looked into it.

I'm sure the wife would object to that reasoning, church or not. Typically entering marriage a mutual agreement of exclusivity, excluding where both parties express preferring poly arrangements.
So unless they were in an open poly relationship, the wife is certainly going to be quite bothered by the whole thing too.
And in divorce proceedings, your spouse having extramarital affairs can lead to things going in your favor.

All completely irrelevant to employment. Is it a scummy thing to do? Yes. Is it grounds for firing? No. But this douchebro has plenty of other things he did that should have resulted in his dismissal.

 

[Sarty]

It's being downvoted because the Ars commentariat has a large contingent of posters who believe that the workplace should also be their personal brothel. They refuse to understand that non-peer relationships are a serious problem and that most peer level relationships end badly.

Anecdotally, the United States seems to be well to one side of the distribution of "are office romances okay?", generally answering in the negative. I sometimes wonder if this is a happy by-product of our often-depressingly puritanical culture. Lots of western Europe seems to have much more accommodating views of mixing business and personal.

 

[Belisarius]

It's being downvoted because the Ars commentariat has a large contingent of posters who believe that the workplace should also be their personal brothel. They refuse to understand that non-peer relationships are a serious problem and that most peer level relationships end badly.

Anecdotally, the United States seems to be well to one side of the distribution of "are office romances okay?", generally answering in the negative. I sometimes wonder if this is a happy by-product of our often-depressingly puritanical culture. Lots of western Europe seems to have much more accommodating views of mixing business and personal.

If anything, I think it's probably due more to our litigiousness than Puritanism. Boss-underling romances are practically begging for sexual discrimination lawsuits, and with good reason.

 

[iquanyin]

You spend most of your life time in office, how is it humanly possible that you can't have an affair/relationship built-up atleast once in your life time in office ? I think this no affair policies are farce for any organization.

However this is only my opinion, you are free to educate me incase i have it wrong, request you to please give example.

all the more reason we need work / life balance.

 

[nehinks]

To add to that. He this was an affair, meaning his wife was at home while this was going on.

Well, this part doesn't really matter -- I'm not aware of any employer but a church which considers infidelity to be an employment concern.

I could be wrong! I don't plan on cheating on anybody, so I've never looked into it.

I'm sure the wife would object to that reasoning, church or not. Typically entering marriage a mutual agreement of exclusivity, excluding where both parties express preferring poly arrangements.
So unless they were in an open poly relationship, the wife is certainly going to be quite bothered by the whole thing too.
And in divorce proceedings, your spouse having extramarital affairs can lead to things going in your favor.

All completely irrelevant to employment. Is it a scummy thing to do? Yes. Is it grounds for firing? No. But this douchebro has plenty of other things he did that should have resulted in his dismissal.

It can impact keeping a security clearance, which would affect a government/defense related job. Also it can get you straight up discharged in the military, IIRC.

 

[ten91]

To add to that. He this was an affair, meaning his wife was at home while this was going on.

Well, this part doesn't really matter -- I'm not aware of any employer but a church which considers infidelity to be an employment concern.

I could be wrong! I don't plan on cheating on anybody, so I've never looked into it.

I'm sure the wife would object to that reasoning, church or not. Typically entering marriage a mutual agreement of exclusivity, excluding where both parties express preferring poly arrangements.
So unless they were in an open poly relationship, the wife is certainly going to be quite bothered by the whole thing too.
And in divorce proceedings, your spouse having extramarital affairs can lead to things going in your favor.

All completely irrelevant to employment. Is it a scummy thing to do? Yes. Is it grounds for firing? No. But this douchebro has plenty of other things he did that should have resulted in his dismissal.

It can impact keeping a security clearance, which would affect a government/defense related job. Also it can get you straight up discharged in the military, IIRC.

Turns out business people don't trust you too much if you're deceitful and unethical in your personal life.

 

[co-lee]

at least uber is staying true to brand!

 

[KGFish]

It's being downvoted because the Ars commentariat has a large contingent of posters who believe that the workplace should also be their personal brothel. They refuse to understand that non-peer relationships are a serious problem and that most peer level relationships end badly.

Anecdotally, the United States seems to be well to one side of the distribution of "are office romances okay?", generally answering in the negative. I sometimes wonder if this is a happy by-product of our often-depressingly puritanical culture. Lots of western Europe seems to have much more accommodating views of mixing business and personal.

Only marginally more relaxed. As far as I'm aware, "office romances" where people are in any sort of direct reporting structure are a total no go - at least among the decently managed companies. Outside of that, it can be more relaxed. But fundamentally speaking, any office romance is going to face two questions: is it really a meeting of equals? And can the two stay professional during and after the relationship?

The second question is tied to how personal relationships are structured, and can work. The first one is a total no, and therefore should never be tried. If it should be tried, someone needs to leave their position first.

 

[sondjata]

"Poetzscher was alleged to have made sexual remarks about his female colleagues and also had a consensual affair with another woman at the company against company policy, the newspaper reported, citing anonymous sources"

Soooo that woman, has she resigned or been terminated?

So let me understand the downvotes on this comment....


Had the woman who this guy had the affair with, been under duress, then the article would have/should have noted that. If the affair was under duress then it wasn't an "affair" it was extortion and should have/would have been noted as such. By saying it was an affair rather than extortion/assault, it means the woman was in violation of policy. If it was wrong for the man, then it is equally wrong for the woman and she should face the same consequences he does. This is what equality means folks.

 

[Kharma]

I dunno, it’s almost starting to look like Uber is a shitty company filled with assholes...

Just starting? Where have you been the last few years.

 

[jaqrah]

It's being downvoted because the Ars commentariat has a large contingent of posters who believe that the workplace should also be their personal brothel. They refuse to understand that non-peer relationships are a serious problem and that most peer level relationships end badly.

Anecdotally, the United States seems to be well to one side of the distribution of "are office romances okay?", generally answering in the negative. I sometimes wonder if this is a happy by-product of our often-depressingly puritanical culture. Lots of western Europe seems to have much more accommodating views of mixing business and personal.

I am sincerely curious what actually constitutes "our often-depressingly puritanical culture"? I see our culture as one which continually pushes the boundaries of propriety and norms. Of all our great exports...American Culture is reviled and derided and yet secretly coveted, a conundrum for certain.

I am not sure what more do you want...nude coquettes bringing coffee to your cubicle, gun and marijuana breaks at the office shooting range ??? I am clueless.

Let me give you a puritanical point of view I possess. I go to work to work and while I am at work...I work. Work is not an extension of high school or college...its fucking work, hence its name.

 

[Urist]

Stay classy Uber

 

[DarthSlack]

You spend most of your life time in office, how is it humanly possible that you can't have an affair/relationship built-up atleast once in your life time in office ? I think this no affair policies are farce for any organization.

However this is only my opinion, you are free to educate me incase i have it wrong, request you to please give example.

First, don't spend most of your life in the office.

Second, relationships between peers is not the same as relationships between worker and manager. The power dynamic between people of different levels within the company make romantic relationships inherently exploitative.

Does that mean for a high-level executive, where essentially everyone in the company is below them on the org chart, there is no employee with whom a romantic relationship is acceptable?

Yes.

Not sure why people are down-voting this. The abuse of power that is inherent between a boss and someone beneath them is precisely at the center of why these things are or should be prohibited.

If you need to be with someone that much, one of you can quit your job, which is something I've seen happen on more than one occasion.

It's being downvoted because the Ars commentariat has a large contingent of posters who believe that the workplace should also be their personal brothel. They refuse to understand that non-peer relationships are a serious problem and that most peer level relationships end badly.

There are three downvotes at the time of this post. That's not a lot.

And just how long was that? How long should we give it to be statistically accurate?

Anybody who's participated in past threads that touch on workplace dating know damn well that there are a bunch of posters who are woefully misinformed about what is, or is not, harassment.

 

[ten91]

You spend most of your life time in office, how is it humanly possible that you can't have an affair/relationship built-up atleast once in your life time in office ? I think this no affair policies are farce for any organization.

However this is only my opinion, you are free to educate me incase i have it wrong, request you to please give example.

First, don't spend most of your life in the office.

Second, relationships between peers is not the same as relationships between worker and manager. The power dynamic between people of different levels within the company make romantic relationships inherently exploitative.

Does that mean for a high-level executive, where essentially everyone in the company is below them on the org chart, there is no employee with whom a romantic relationship is acceptable?

Yes.

Not sure why people are down-voting this. The abuse of power that is inherent between a boss and someone beneath them is precisely at the center of why these things are or should be prohibited.

If you need to be with someone that much, one of you can quit your job, which is something I've seen happen on more than one occasion.

It's being downvoted because the Ars commentariat has a large contingent of posters who believe that the workplace should also be their personal brothel. They refuse to understand that non-peer relationships are a serious problem and that most peer level relationships end badly.

There are three downvotes at the time of this post. That's not a lot.

And just how long was that? How long should we give it to be statistically accurate?

Anybody who's participated in past threads that touch on workplace dating know damn well that there are a bunch of posters who are woefully misinformed about what is, or is not, harassment.

Usually a couple hours or after ten votes you start to see a trend depending on how active the topic is. Cause in a situation like this you might get 2 people that will just instantly downvote it, then over the next two hours, get another downvote, but also 10 upvotes.

And Incel gonna Incel. Just ignore them and they'll leave. They just want an echo chamber and leave when they find people don't just repeat their rhetoric.

 

[Sarty]

I am sincerely curious what actually constitutes "our often-depressingly puritanical culture"? I see our culture as one which continually pushes the boundaries of propriety and norms. Of all our great exports...American Culture is reviled and derided and yet secretly coveted, a conundrum for certain.

My go-to example of over-zealous American puritanism is that it is controversial to include instruction on contraceptive use as part of sex ed. Because the mindset among many is that we can just teach high schoolers to never have sex.

This mindset is wrong-headed and bad.

 

[ten91]

I am sincerely curious what actually constitutes "our often-depressingly puritanical culture"? I see our culture as one which continually pushes the boundaries of propriety and norms. Of all our great exports...American Culture is reviled and derided and yet secretly coveted, a conundrum for certain.

My go-to example of over-zealous American puritanism is that it is controversial to include instruction on contraceptive use as part of sex ed. Because the mindset among many is that we can just teach high schoolers to never have sex.

This mindset is wrong-headed and bad.

Some more:
No shorts at work
No jeans at work
You shouldn't swear in public
Don't talk about sex, ever

 

[Iggy the Jiggy Piggy]

I am sincerely curious what actually constitutes "our often-depressingly puritanical culture"? I see our culture as one which continually pushes the boundaries of propriety and norms. Of all our great exports...American Culture is reviled and derided and yet secretly coveted, a conundrum for certain.

My go-to example of over-zealous American puritanism is that it is controversial to include instruction on contraceptive use as part of sex ed. Because the mindset among many is that we can just teach high schoolers to never have sex.

This mindset is wrong-headed and bad.

This is completely different.

It is a very bad idea to start relationships with people you work with. If you must, one or both should get another job. It has nothing to do with puritanism and everything to do with having a workplace conducive to work. Obviously you can't stop people and a lot of workplaces will not fire you if it's discreet but sometimes people need to be reminded to think carefully before they take the plunge.

 

[Gnack]

The Uber corporate culture has a remarkable amount of consistency

 

[srh]

I am sincerely curious what actually constitutes "our often-depressingly puritanical culture"? I see our culture as one which continually pushes the boundaries of propriety and norms. Of all our great exports...American Culture is reviled and derided and yet secretly coveted, a conundrum for certain.

My go-to example of over-zealous American puritanism is that it is controversial to include instruction on contraceptive use as part of sex ed. Because the mindset among many is that we can just teach high schoolers to never have sex.

This mindset is wrong-headed and bad.

This is completely different.

It is a very bad idea to start relationships with people you work with. If you must, one or both should get another job. It has nothing to do with puritanism and everything to do with having a workplace conducive to work. Obviously you can't stop people and a lot of workplaces will not fire you if it's discreet but sometimes people need to be reminded to think carefully before they take the plunge.

Can someone explain how this works?

If you're interested in asking a coworker (not a management/subordinate relationship) out on a date, are you expected to first change employers? That seems like a pretty big life change to make just to ask a pretty girl out for coffee.

Or do you wait until she accepts the invitation to coffee, and then change jobs?

There's a lot of simplification in this discussion. I see no reason why the very defensible policy of "Managers shouldn't date subordinates" should be extended to "coworkers shouldn't date each other". Anecdotally, at the Fortune 50 company where I worked until recently, a very large percentage of married couples met each other at work and got married. It's perfectly natural and reasonable.

Of course if the relationship doesn't work out, it's important to be adult about that situation and don't bring personal life into the office. Failure to effectively manage that situation should certainly be cause for dismissal.

 

[sporkinum]

The Uber corporate culture has a remarkable amount of consistency

Uber conducted an internal investigation, formally reprimanded him in late 2017, reduced his bonus, and had him attend sensitivity training. However, several months later, Poetzscher was promoted anyway.

Yep.

 

[libertarianbro]

I dunno, it’s almost starting to look like Uber is a shitty company filled with assholes...

sure if we believe the media who is attacking a company who threatens a huge portion of their advertisers

kind of like when the media told us Hillary had a 98% chance of winning, or that Dewey defeated Truman, or that Richard Jewell was the Atlanta Olympics bomber.

You people are slaves to media gods, and this site is one of the worst, their fucking board member changed peoples political posts he didnt like.

 

[Iggy the Jiggy Piggy]

I am sincerely curious what actually constitutes "our often-depressingly puritanical culture"? I see our culture as one which continually pushes the boundaries of propriety and norms. Of all our great exports...American Culture is reviled and derided and yet secretly coveted, a conundrum for certain.

My go-to example of over-zealous American puritanism is that it is controversial to include instruction on contraceptive use as part of sex ed. Because the mindset among many is that we can just teach high schoolers to never have sex.

This mindset is wrong-headed and bad.

This is completely different.

It is a very bad idea to start relationships with people you work with. If you must, one or both should get another job. It has nothing to do with puritanism and everything to do with having a workplace conducive to work. Obviously you can't stop people and a lot of workplaces will not fire you if it's discreet but sometimes people need to be reminded to think carefully before they take the plunge.

Can someone explain how this works?

If you're interested in asking a coworker (not a management/subordinate relationship) out on a date, are you expected to first change employers? That seems like a pretty big life change to make just to ask a pretty girl out for coffee.

Or do you wait until she accepts the invitation to coffee, and then change jobs?

There's a lot of simplification in this discussion. I see no reason why the very defensible policy of "Managers shouldn't date subordinates" should be extended to "coworkers shouldn't date each other". Anecdotally, at the Fortune 50 company where I worked until recently, a very large percentage of married couples met each other at work and got married. It's perfectly natural and reasonable.

Of course if the relationship doesn't work out, it's important to be adult about that situation and don't bring personal life into the office. Failure to effectively manage that situation should certainly be cause for dismissal.

There's probably a way, if you work together, to get coffee without it being a date. There are other problems with getting involved with co-workers. The way people act at work is likely to be less authentic than anywhere else. Why not find someone outside of work to go on a date with.

But like I said, if you're discreet very few workplaces are going to pry but don't do it. Just don't.