This family of electric motors will drive GM’s new electric vehicles
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I'd much rather the emissions of an electric hummer than those of a gas powered Honda
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Imagine getting a paper tiger of a company to give $2billion in stock and up to $700 million to pay for your R&D and production of a product you were going to do anyway. Well done GM.
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Making big, heavy, and inefficient vehicles electrical does *more* for the environment than converting drivers who don't buy those things in the first place. Which burns more gas -- a Hummer or a Honda Civic?
Now yes, this gets more complicated with questions like "Where's your power coming from?" but that would be a question no matter *what* you bought. Short of making it illegal for certain people to buy certain vehicles -- which will fly in this country like a lead turd -- the best thing we can do is convert the newer versions of those vehicles into less-polluting variants.
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From an emissions standpoint it's definitely better, but it's still a safety clusterfuck for pedestrians and anyone driving a smaller car.
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That's definitely the dichotomy we should work with. ;-)
My reaction was similar to SplatMan's -- "gee I'm glad they're got their priorities in order, the Hummer is definitely the place to start".
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So GM was looking for an "executive chief engineer of electric vehicles", and picked a guy who's last name starts with they abbreviation of KiloWatt?
Well played. I am now interested.
Obviously the next big corvette model will be hybrid (if not full electric) and thus be even more of a radical change than the new mid-engine model? Interesting times.
Well played. I am now interested.
Obviously the next big corvette model will be hybrid (if not full electric) and thus be even more of a radical change than the new mid-engine model? Interesting times.
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Interesting. So with a basic front-drive unit (how does it differ from the Bolt unit?) and an "assist" unit, the new Bigger Bolt can be AWD. Being able to burn more kw in two motors, of course, requires a bigger battery, which requires a bigger vehicle, etc etc. The key benefit of a Bolt, besides being electric with adequate (barely) range and (reasonably) performance, is that it provides a good amount of usable space inside of a small exterior package. Yes, I know, that doesn't sell in the US which is undoubtedly why the Bigger Bolt is coming and will almost certainly replace the current model entirely. Bets that the bigger one won't have any more seating room than the current one? If they improve the comfort of the front seats, though, it'll be worthwhile (can I retrofit them?).
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The modular approach seems pretty rational, but did they really not announce any specs at all? Size, weight, power?
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I'm thinking hybrid for the next Vette. Despite the ability to get obscene amounts of power and torque out of electric drives, the battery is still an issue, and a 5000# Vette (after stuffing more than 100 kwh of battery into it) isn't going to be attractive.
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No, they did not release any specs.
Re: the Corvette, everyone's best guess is that the C8 Z06 (which is due next year iirc) will be a PHEV. The car's chassis has what appears to be transmission tunnel, which you don't need at all in a mid-engined, rear-wheel drive car, so it seems likely that will get stuffed with some batteries and there'll be an electric motor driving the front axle.
Re: the Corvette, everyone's best guess is that the C8 Z06 (which is due next year iirc) will be a PHEV. The car's chassis has what appears to be transmission tunnel, which you don't need at all in a mid-engined, rear-wheel drive car, so it seems likely that will get stuffed with some batteries and there'll be an electric motor driving the front axle.
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We already gave up our supersize fries, don’t ask us to downsize any further!
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I'm getting close to needing a new vehicle and want to go full EV, but they're still too expensive with not enough options. Rollouts like this are giving me goosebumps. Can't wait to see what GM (and everyone) bring to the table over the next couple years. The motoring world is on the verge of being completely changed.
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I’m curious how well GM might support the crate market. It would be nice to have some (near) drop in replacements for older vehicles. Yes, I’m the type of person who would happily drive around an EV 70’s Cutlass.
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Good on GM for taking this seriously.
If an OEM isn't figuring out motors and batteries now, it will likely not be able to catch up before their cash cow products start having to be discounted to the point of unprofitability. It'll be just about impossible to sell a brand new gasoline powered vehicle by the mid-2030s. The glut of used gas vehicles that are no longer affordable to operate or are illegal to drive in an increasing number of jurisdictions will cause resale value to crater. That means banks will be unwilling to approve those 6, 7, and 8 year loans that many consumers have become accustomed to, unless it's for an EV.
If an OEM isn't figuring out motors and batteries now, it will likely not be able to catch up before their cash cow products start having to be discounted to the point of unprofitability. It'll be just about impossible to sell a brand new gasoline powered vehicle by the mid-2030s. The glut of used gas vehicles that are no longer affordable to operate or are illegal to drive in an increasing number of jurisdictions will cause resale value to crater. That means banks will be unwilling to approve those 6, 7, and 8 year loans that many consumers have become accustomed to, unless it's for an EV.
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GM did tease a crate electric setup based on (I think) the Bolt drivetrain a while back at one of the SEMA shows. This lineup does look interesting for making that real.
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If you're going to electrify an old 70's beast, why not make an electric Electra??
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Why would a second motor in the Bolt "burn more kW"?
It's not like there's a huge range difference between the single and dual motor Teslas...
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I did ask Kwiatkowski about crate motors—all he would say is that he rode in the E10 pickup that GM built for SEMA, and it was a lot of fun, and that "there'll be future announcements about that but I will say, you know, at a larger and broader scale where this Ultium drive system affords us many future business opportunities."
E10 pickup: https://meincmagazine.com/cars/2019/11/th ... restomods/
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Which is entirely what this particular article is about... <rolleyes>
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Shame how they already used the "E-Rod" moniker on a crate small block - but if they can rebrand a Blazer into a soft-roader, then why not "E-Rod"?
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There will always (for some value of "always") be a market for ICE vehicles in the US. It's simply too big for EVs to be able to meet all needs in the foreseeable future. However, EVs are rapidly reaching the point where if you don't live in the deep boonies they're practical. That will certainly (if the pricing can be rationalized soon) take a big chunk out of the ICE market otherwise, and the lightly used ICE vehicles that the EVs replace will keep the boonies well-supplied for a long time. Let's put a post-it reminder on 2025 to see how the EV pickups and SUVs are doing.
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Two things:
First, that person assembling the motor resembles (on a vastly smaller scale) the illustration in a book I have of people assembling a 3000HP electric motor for a Diesel-electric ship. The picture is a century old.
Second, while I can understand it from a weight and production point of view, integrating the electronics and the motor seems the kind of thing iFixit would award a low score. It means that repairs are going to be expensive. Both the ECU and the gearbox management unit on my car are separate boxes, which means that a failure in either can be fixed without getting the engine out and doing a lot of dismantling. Electronics tend to be pretty reliable, but things like capacitors do wear out.
First, that person assembling the motor resembles (on a vastly smaller scale) the illustration in a book I have of people assembling a 3000HP electric motor for a Diesel-electric ship. The picture is a century old.
Second, while I can understand it from a weight and production point of view, integrating the electronics and the motor seems the kind of thing iFixit would award a low score. It means that repairs are going to be expensive. Both the ECU and the gearbox management unit on my car are separate boxes, which means that a failure in either can be fixed without getting the engine out and doing a lot of dismantling. Electronics tend to be pretty reliable, but things like capacitors do wear out.
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I suspect the hardest part of doing an electric retrofit is figuring out where to put the batteries.
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...and what to do with that 3sp non-locking Turbo-Hydromatic AT.
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I'm excited to see GM continue to be dead serious about (finally) aggressively launching EVs. As a Bolt (and Volt) owner, I'm quite happy with their early products. I'm hoping they take the lessons learned to heart.
That means taking the good (like REALLY good battery degradation rates) and making it better, and taking the bad (software updates) and fixing it. I mean, you can GET software updates, but it's a pain.
Let's do this thing.
Also, I'm GLAD they're starting with a truck--it makes sense from a market segment perspective. People that buy full-size trucks brand new already expect to pay a decent chunk of change. The rumors are that the Hummer will come in only a little higher than the average (which I hope is true) purchase price (around $51k).
That means taking the good (like REALLY good battery degradation rates) and making it better, and taking the bad (software updates) and fixing it. I mean, you can GET software updates, but it's a pain.
Let's do this thing.
Also, I'm GLAD they're starting with a truck--it makes sense from a market segment perspective. People that buy full-size trucks brand new already expect to pay a decent chunk of change. The rumors are that the Hummer will come in only a little higher than the average (which I hope is true) purchase price (around $51k).
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I don't know about other people, but when I read 'wireless", I immediately think of "attack vector"...
Can I trust a car company to properly secure their wireless protocol/system...?
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I don't expect individual Americans to make the choice. I expect policymakers to actually fucking do something about the problem.
An easy fix would be requiring a separate license endorsement for anything regulated as a light duty truck. Not a full-on CDL, just an endorsement like a motorcycle requires an endorsement. I think requiring that extra effort alone would do a lot to stymie the majority of people who don't actually need a huge pickup truck or whatever.
Plus it's just ridiculous that you can take your driver's test in a Smart ForTwo and immediately go use the same license to go drive a Ford F500.
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Don't worry. GM will fuck up the marketing for anything they put out. Seriously I looked at a Volt and then a Bolt when I looked at supplementing my ICE with an electric every day driver. I know more about these vehicles than the dealers and I went to 3 different dealers when I decided to kick the tires.
And this isn't just my experience. Google it. The dealers are not properly trained on how to answer people's questions on electrics, or only has something like one SME.
And this isn't just my experience. Google it. The dealers are not properly trained on how to answer people's questions on electrics, or only has something like one SME.
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Well, apart from the fact that burning kilowatts is a terribly mixed metaphor, the peak power available from a lithium battery is to a degree capacity dependent, since a bigger active area in the cells is needed to provide more peak current and the easiest way to get that is to have more cells.
As you say, range has little to do with it since, other things being equal, accelerating from 0-60 in 3, 6 or 9 seconds makes little difference if any to the energy needed.
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Genuine question: how do the emissions and overall environmental impact of an electric Hummer vs. a gas-powered Civic look from a cradle-to-grave perspective?
Also, will these developments do anything for expansion of the electrification of freight and commercial transport?
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Really? In a country where one of the only two political parties is in the process of being captured by an insane conspiracy theory that boils down to the protocols of the elders of Zion, you think we have policymakers capable of solving problems?
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I don't know how long these things have been out, but I saw a battery-powered lawnmower the other day at Lowes. Never in my dreams as a youth would I have imagined that we have finally reached this point, give the near-century stalling of vehicle battery technology.
Twenty years ago when electric vehicles were no longer an instant punch-line, I though they would be perfect replacements for commuter cars, which make up the bulk of gas-burning vehicles getting sold. Your average Camry driver won't care what's under the hood as long as the driving experience is decent and, critically, there is a workable recharging network in place. Assuming all that, ICE applications could be narrowed down to performance/specialty cars and trucks. Unfortunately, in the interim, SUVs have planted themselves firmly in the 'Murican psyche, so with that as a current reality I'm all for making those dinosaurs run on electrons.
This decade could be (and should be) the turning point where the majority of vehicles sold will be electric. I think we're finally there.
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...and what to do with that 3sp non-locking Turbo-Hydromatic AT.
Having owned an ‘73 Olds 98 LS, I can tell you that there is a lot of room for batteries, especially if the gas tank and other ICE specific components are removed. So, removing the AT is likely the right call. I’m chuckling while thinking about running a charging harness through what was the former fuel line to a port in the “gas cap”.
Edited for typos
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Imagine going from a vaporware truck that you roll down a hill to suddenly having viable products in exchange for your worthless stock and some cash that you bilked out of investors and pre-orders?
The deal was a win for GM, but also a lifeline for Nikola. It would have been a Theranos-like implosion for them otherwise.
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Sure, but my point was adding a second motor (e.g retrofit comment) wouldn't cause the battery to somehow become inadequate for regular use.
Unless people are normally driving around at WOT (or is that "wide open rheostat"?) all the time.
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it does quite a lot for the environment, however, consider, the electric motor's greatest strength is torque, which provided the efficiency and energy density of the battery is sufficient, REALLY lends itself to larger vehicles. Eventually they will electrify the entire lineup, however Hummer electrification has another purpose, its a revived brand, that means that it will have a fresh start, buyers looking for a Hummer won't have ICE and hybrids to be redirected to, a real problem with dealerships is that they do everything possible to discourage EV sales, sometimes losing the customer in the process, this prevents that as they build up the infrastructure to electrify the rest of their vehicles
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