"How did Paleolithic people arrive at such remote islands as Okinawa? What tools and strategies did they use?"
See full article...
See full article...
Testing ancient Paleolithic migration with a replica canoe
- Thread starter JournalBot
- Start date
Neat. This reminds me of watching The Ra Expeditions (1972) in the theater as a kid, about sailing papyrus boats across the Atlantic - (wiki) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ra_(1972_film)
Upvote
51
(52
/
-1)
I love the trend of scientists recreating / re-enacting what our ancestors did (or at least, the trend of reporting on it- I guess it's completely possible scientists have been doing this forever and I'm just learning about it more now).
Also, stories like this are why I continue to subscribe.
Also, stories like this are why I continue to subscribe.
Upvote
84
(84
/
0)
Well... that's what sets homo sapiens (allegedly) sapiens apart from all others: our quest to explore, to see the other side of the hill.
Upvote
16
(19
/
-3)
I was relaying the previous experimental archaeology story from earlier in the week to my kid, and they asked the (definitely valid) question of why paleolithic people would have done this?
My response was that they probably did it for the same reason these researchers did their experiment: our capacity for curiosity is endless, which seems to be one of the most universal things our species has.
Great article, keep these coming!
My response was that they probably did it for the same reason these researchers did their experiment: our capacity for curiosity is endless, which seems to be one of the most universal things our species has.
Great article, keep these coming!
Upvote
47
(47
/
0)
This keeps blowing my mind. I'd make an awful Paleolithic human.
1. Have the creativity of imagining that there's land beyond the horizon.
2. Having enough belief (or a source of certainty) to consider the journey.
3. Overcoming the fear of the unknown.
4. Having enough faith that you can make the journey alive, find provisions at the destination, and return alive to tell the message and inviting others to join you.
And have the skill to perhaps fish on the way, and enough water or stamina to go without it. I couldn't feed myself in the wilderness even if had been given a loaded shotgun to shoot a dormant elephant at close distance.
edit: Also knowing that you won't just fall off the planet once you reach horizon - fact that we seem to be slowly forgetting.
Upvote
46
(48
/
-2)
The Austronesians/Polynesians did have maps in the form of stick charts.
As a sidenote, Arthur Clarke has noted that the Polynesians may be a more plausible model of interstellar colonization than European colonialism. Instead of a centralized empire, there are instead many many independent regional polities dimly aware that they have historical links to each other.
Upvote
60
(60
/
0)
Or reading "The Brendan Voyage" by Tim Severin who build a boat out of leather and sailed it from the northern scottish islands to Newfoundland over two seasons, with a stop to winter in Iceland. Amazing story.
All this ignores the 50-90% of failed voyages of course. I wonder what wrecks will be found in the deeps as exploration gets better? Especially below the oxygen line where things decay more quickly.
Upvote
30
(31
/
-1)
The thing about these is you only have to get it right once and there have been plenty of humans who are wiling to try things once in a while. A lot of things seem pretty plausible.
Goodness knows currents at the time might have made it "easy".
Goodness knows currents at the time might have made it "easy".
Upvote
19
(19
/
0)
I actually don't think this is a widespread or quintessential urge. I think we chase resources and land, not curiosity.
Upvote
22
(28
/
-6)
As a proof of concept, this stands up pretty well.
Beyond that, I'm not convinced it answers many questions about the means of colonizing the region's islands. It feels like a people wouldn't just go paddling off into the distance without a better support system, or without knowing there was something to paddle out to. Both of which were provided in this example.
Since time would erase all traces of these things - especially as more time passed - it leaves doubts about how often this was done and under what circumstances. THAT it can be done seems evident. HOW it was done wasn't entirely answered by this. Of course, this was just a proof of concept. Not proof of how it was done.
Beyond that, I'm not convinced it answers many questions about the means of colonizing the region's islands. It feels like a people wouldn't just go paddling off into the distance without a better support system, or without knowing there was something to paddle out to. Both of which were provided in this example.
Since time would erase all traces of these things - especially as more time passed - it leaves doubts about how often this was done and under what circumstances. THAT it can be done seems evident. HOW it was done wasn't entirely answered by this. Of course, this was just a proof of concept. Not proof of how it was done.
Upvote
1
(11
/
-10)
I don't know how likely it is but some cultural or religious form of "follow me to the promised land" would not be unprecedented. Lots of occurrences of that.
Upvote
20
(20
/
0)
This experiment points out the difficulty of the task, even with modern knowledge (geography, etc). However, the experimenters were lacking the training and cultural knowledge that would’ve been available to Paleolithic people.
For comparison imagine if a thousand years from now all knowledge of “sport” is lost, but archeologists discovered golf clubs and golf balls and tried to estimate how far and how accurately people could hit them. I’m betting no one would believe the skill attainable by even high level amateurs (let alone professional golfers).
Now imagine how much a society built around seafaring could do with just primitive navigation and boats, given what these researchers were able to do.
For comparison imagine if a thousand years from now all knowledge of “sport” is lost, but archeologists discovered golf clubs and golf balls and tried to estimate how far and how accurately people could hit them. I’m betting no one would believe the skill attainable by even high level amateurs (let alone professional golfers).
Now imagine how much a society built around seafaring could do with just primitive navigation and boats, given what these researchers were able to do.
Upvote
68
(70
/
-2)
In the case of islands only two days' paddling apart, that's not so hard. I mean, beyond just hoping that there might be, or noticing birds flying back to roost in the evening going in an unexpected direction, there's always going to be cases of "fisherman gets blown out to sea unexpectedly, catches sight of distant land, returns home after the wind dies down."
Note that shallow water offers a lot of opportunities for fishing, so there's a pretty strong incentive to go looking for islands.
Upvote
70
(70
/
0)
Are you sure about that? The aggressive exploration of the ants invading my kitchen suggests otherwise. They are incredibly persistent, brave and continue to explore at great peril of their own demise from both physical affront and chemical warfare. And I do not even want to start on the intrepid adventures raccoons undertake in my back yard. Very clever and ambitious they are...
Frankly, the continued desire to assume that somehow we are different, better etc. than other forms of life remains, for me, among the most puzzling points of human hubris.
As someone who has personally crossed the Pacific in a sailboat (no motor on that vessel, mind you) and had a sample paddle in a replica Ohlone reed canoe, I applaud the voyage of those Japanese researchers. Fun stuff.
Upvote
52
(52
/
0)
Oh no!
One generally rows with oars and oars are attached to the craft in pairs! The propulsion method and technique are entirely different! Paddling with paddles ≠ rowing with oars
One generally rows with oars and oars are attached to the craft in pairs! The propulsion method and technique are entirely different! Paddling with paddles ≠ rowing with oars
Upvote
10
(12
/
-2)
ubercurmudgeon
Ars Tribunus Militum
Unfortunately, we also have a tendency to burn down the forest on the other side of the hill, kill or exploit anyone or anything that was living there, and pollute the streams that run down into that watershed. Something that anthropologists recreating canoe/raft/boat trips fail to replicate (thankfully.)
Upvote
-9
(6
/
-15)
Looking at the specific geography on Google Maps (I'm not familiar with the area), it seems there are hills along the east coast of Taiwan well in excess of 1000m (over 1600m at the highest). From 1000m, the horizon is over 120 kms away - about the distance to Yonaguni, which is itself ~200m high. So it would be "fairly easy" for someone hiking in the hills of eastern Taiwan to look out at the horizon and see a dark smudge of an island. I've experienced that in San Diego - on a clear day you can see San Clemente Island (not the city) 70 miles offshore. The key is having a really clear day without the typical ocean haze, but it's pretty obvious once you've noticed it the first time - if the seeing conditions are good.
So I'd expect someone out hiking in the mountains had seen it, and wondered "what's there? Let's go look!" The fact they didn't see the island from the boat (sea level) until the last few hours doesn't mean they didn't know the island was there the whole time - it just meant they couldn't use the island to navigate. It also probably means they could look back over their shoulder and see Taiwan the whole time - so that might give some comfort that "if this doesn't work, we turn back."
Upvote
64
(64
/
0)
Heyerdahl's hypothesis was rooted in cultural bias bordering on racism and has never really been taken seriously. But he also did some amazing things and did actively promote ideas that were in opposition to racism. So yeah. Great adventurer, sub-par scientist, someone I would have enjoyed drinking beer with for an evening. But mostly wrong about stuff.
Upvote
15
(17
/
-2)
Upvote
-3
(2
/
-5)
The fact that the Polynesians traveled much of the Pacific with a similar level of technology sorta proves it's possible. Their craft were more advanced, catamarans with sails etc, but were still built with stone age technology. The fact that no masts or sails exist from this time period doesn't mean they didn't have them, more like they just didn't survive the 20,000 years?
This is a ~600 year old canoe recently discovered in NZ, so pre-European (and the use of metal).
https://www.sci.news/archaeology/science-polynesian-ocean-sailing-canoe-new-zealand-02182.html
This is a ~600 year old canoe recently discovered in NZ, so pre-European (and the use of metal).
https://www.sci.news/archaeology/science-polynesian-ocean-sailing-canoe-new-zealand-02182.html
Upvote
21
(21
/
0)
Padding is very feasible if their simulation study is sufficient correct. The old current appears (Fig 2) to be in the 0.8 to 1.2 m/s range whereas the modern models are over 1.2 m/s. So these researchers would have easily done it given that they were able to do it under modern conditions.
In addition to the birds, they should have see the clouds that appear over island(s) so they would know something was there.
Upvote
12
(12
/
0)
Sea levels would have been slightly lower in paleolithic times, to some degree -- I wonder if this was accounted for as well. If that level change was at all significant, the sea journey might have been a little bit shorter then, or perhaps islands just under the surface now would have been useful as intermediary steps then.
Upvote
4
(5
/
-1)
It seems likely, in such ancient cases, that people setting out with enough resources to settle the new land already knew about its existence. The fact that the modern researchers had some idea where they were headed does not then necessarily differ from the situation the ancients were in.
Someone out fishing who got caught in a storm could have happened across land and then managed to find their way back, for instance. Or some smaller party of wanderlusters may have gone out exploring, and come back with information about some islands. Someone with wanderlust could have figured out strategies for longer trips starting with short trips just out to open ocean and successively traveling further each time, developing both strategies for being out on the open ocean as well as for finding their way back to their starting point.
Someone out fishing who got caught in a storm could have happened across land and then managed to find their way back, for instance. Or some smaller party of wanderlusters may have gone out exploring, and come back with information about some islands. Someone with wanderlust could have figured out strategies for longer trips starting with short trips just out to open ocean and successively traveling further each time, developing both strategies for being out on the open ocean as well as for finding their way back to their starting point.
Upvote
11
(11
/
0)
Also, given sea level at the time there would have been more landmass to spot and that land would have been higher relative to sea level. Sea level wouldn't have been as low as during the last glacial maximum but it still would have been much lower than today.
Upvote
3
(4
/
-1)
Upvote
15
(17
/
-2)
Perhaps seeing birds fly beyond the horizon was a clue that there is land there as well.
Upvote
-4
(3
/
-7)
Congrats on them making it. 10-20 years ago they (same group?) tried with reed canoes (current was too strong) and I think one other method. Both ways failed. So great to see them have success this round.
Upvote
4
(4
/
0)
Is it strange the whole time I was reading this article the theme to Gilligan's Island was going through my head.
Upvote
-1
(2
/
-3)
My assumption is that modern "paddlers" are significantly weaker than people who traveled by boat for basic needs. These paddlers pick up their food at grocery stores or restaurants, regardless of fitness level. That would be somewhat offset by modern sports nutrition if the paddlers were actual athletes, but even then I don't think they'd be able to perform as well as people who need the same skills to survive.
Upvote
12
(12
/
0)
A key technology the Polynesians were using for open-ocean boats that we haven’t found evidence for in the Paleolithic (or even most of the Neolithic) is the outrigger. The stability makes a big difference in open-ocean use.
Upvote
19
(19
/
0)
Polynesians knew that New Zealand was there, through their reading of the environment, (currents, birds, debris, etc). It was just that it was beyond the halfway point, where you have to commit to find it, 'cause you can't turn back successfully. And they made their expeditions. Some of the world's greatest sailors.
Upvote
11
(11
/
0)
This is I think the biggest problem with this "experiment". Here they knew there was an island to go to when they left, and in roughly which direction it lay, Presumably the people who first made that voyage would have had no idea where to go. Perhaps it was common practice at the time to make suicidal one way canoe voyages in random directions, but it does not seem at all likely. To me it seems like a successful voyage of this type would often have been the result of traffic on known routes being blown out to sea and the travelers getting lucky. While most of the boats that happened to would have sunk if one made it then either a colony starts right then and there or, now knowing roughly where they came from, they sail back to where they started and report the location of the new island. One imagines there are many more mariners who would be willing to set sail with "I'm delivering these walrus tusks to the next island up where they will pay with shells and honey" than "I'm going to paddle out into the sea in a random direction and hope for the best." The Polynesians, on the other hand, might well have gone out looking for other islands, because they could sail rather than paddle, and to some extent navigate. One might die on a trip like that too, but it isn't so explicitly suicidal.
Upvote
-14
(4
/
-18)
The canoes of the pacific didn't start out that advanced. They became advanced by inquisitive humans trying to improve them. All it would take was one person thinking 'maybe we can make this voyage easier if we lash a bamboo raft to the side of the canoe to make it more stable'. The same goes for harnessing the wind; because paddling requires effort.
I agree that there is no reason to think masts and sails didn't exist at that time. They would have been made of wood or bamboo (strong, light, flexible), and woven plant fiber. Those materials don't hold up well over time in wet humid areas.
Upvote
4
(4
/
0)
Technologies have to be developed in concert, though. A canoe with a sail and no outrigger in the open ocean is just begging to be capsized, for instance.
Also, we have evidence of where Paleolithic peoples did/didn’t get to, that gives us some insight into what kinds of technologies they may have used. The fact that Polynesia represents some the latest-settled places on Earth should tell us something about the sophistication of Polynesian seafaring compared to earlier Pacific cultures. Just because the hulls were dugouts doesn’t mean the Polynesians were working with the only the same technologies as Paleolithic peoples 10,000+ years earlier.
Upvote
9
(10
/
-1)
I have to admit to suffering Survivor bias. Stupid TV program aimed at stupid people...
Oh...yeah....you mean the fact the surviving entities exhibit characteristics that may, or may not, be a representative sample for an analyisis...
Upvote
3
(3
/
0)
Point well taken... But yeah, all a shotgun will do to an elephant is make him angry and get you trampled completely.
Upvote
12
(12
/
0)
Experimental archaeology is always interesting to me.
There's a guy in Queensland somewhere who has a block where he's built a hut and is making clay vessels, smelting iron, etc. all using modern knowledge but only primitive techniques and tools he makes on-site.
https://m.youtube.com/@primitivetechnology9550
Upvote
5
(5
/
0)