Musk gets 96M shares in "interim award" while 2018 pay plan is held up in court.
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Tesla awards Elon Musk $29 billion after much larger pay plan blocked in court
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* Raises hand
"Professor, I have a question: Don't performances bonuses usually come AFTER achieving the performance goal?"
"Professor, I have a question: Don't performances bonuses usually come AFTER achieving the performance goal?"
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All I can say is whoever is still holding Tesla deserves the massive collapse in value that must surely be coming. There is absolutely NO reason for Tesla to be valued what it is.
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I don't think he's particularly good at rocketry, actually.
If he has ADHD, I guarantee you that isn't the source of his problems.
Not if those goals were set dishonestly and misrepresented to investors, which a court has found is true. Twice.
Nobody here is buying to by your argument about Elon earning super-special incentives on his own merit for the company. That's already been debunked.
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Musk complained last month, "I've got so little control that I can easily be ousted by activist shareholders after having built this army of humanoid robots."
Wait.... what? Last I heard it was a guy in a suit and then some remote controlled bartenders.
Wait.... what? Last I heard it was a guy in a suit and then some remote controlled bartenders.
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I did. with more care than it deserved. It's still bullshit.
So should the first one.
It's funny, you never address the fact that the courts have twice ruled that the 2018 agreement was completely bogus and awarded under false pretenses. Musk, and the Tesla board, lied to shareholders. So I guess I can assume from your last statement that you're completely good with any CEO and board lying to their shareholders to unjustly enrich themselves. That'll work well, I'm sure.
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You basically can't. As an individual investor the interest charges on short positions are too high. Unless you know when it's going to crash within a few weeks its really difficult to effectively use a short position. This is especially true for a volatile and irrational stock like Tesla that could go up 30% the day before it crashes.
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I would prefer that a court follows and rules according to the law. Which is exactly what happened with Musk. An agreement based on lies is not valid. The board lied about the negotiation being arm's length, lied about their independence, lied about the difficulty in achieving the goals. For them to have ruled any other way would be in essence condoning fraud and theft since that billions of dollars in value is coming out of the pockets of the other shareholders.
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Because a low margin/high competition business is exactly what Tesla needs to be successful.
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Why would you want him focused on Tesla to begin with. The man is an idiot that made smart investments and has built companies purely on hype that he can't ever deliver in his promises for without changing their direction almost fully.
Tesla would be far ahead in self driving had Elon not forced them to remove a lot of the stuff he did. He is without a doubt dumer than all hell when it comes to anything that involves actual technical thought.
Tesla would be far ahead in self driving had Elon not forced them to remove a lot of the stuff he did. He is without a doubt dumer than all hell when it comes to anything that involves actual technical thought.
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I'm not sure this is as big of a deal as it appears at first. Towards the end of the article, it says the options don't vest for 2 years. And I don't think he can keep the FSD/Robotaxi hype the current share price is based on going for 2 more years. At least not without some actual results. If Tesla does not show real progress towards self driving cars and at least demonstrate potential for level 4 autonomy sometime in the 6 months to a year, I think the stock price tanks. And when his options vest in 2 years, the payday will be nothing like it would be at the current share price.
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"If you zoom in enough to ignore most of the market they compete in, they're winning"
There's no such thing as the "EV market." Only the automotive market.
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The answer is that it depends on who is waiting to cash out if Elon stays. It is very hard to know in this case.
The board. Definitely the board.
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And this is why I will never buy a Tesla. I think most can agree that a more than average number of CEO's are sociopaths. Normally fine. Whatever. Those people make millions per year but aren't actively coming out and fraking with society or the politics of this country. Musk? Does. And these BILLIONS his fanbase throw at him enable him to screw us over.
I'm dead serious when I say even of someone offered me a top of the line Tesla for free I would tell them to shove it.
I'm dead serious when I say even of someone offered me a top of the line Tesla for free I would tell them to shove it.
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It's funny you mention that about CEOs. Back when I got (my now replaced) Model 3, I viewed Elon as just like those other CEOs, only he didn't know to keep is mouth shut when he said something stupid (and hadn't gotten political at that point). I wasn't a fan, but I could rationalize that at least he was no worse than any other CEO at time time. But my, have times changed since then...
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Spectacularly incompetent is the phrase that first came to mind for me. If they were truly acting in the best interest of the company they’d jettison Elon. He’s toxic to the brand.
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Did you see the lines for hours, people were willing to pay 40 dollars for frozen chicken tenders from Sysco.
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Got the most powerful man in the world (arguably) and the richest man in the world (arguably}
They're both idiots which means a cage match is a good thing!
They're both idiots which means a cage match is a good thing!
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It took me seeing that headline a few times before realizing half of a stupidly, insane, undeserved, crony-granted theft of shareholder value is still a stupidly, insane, undeserved, crony-granted theft of shareholder value.
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Narcicissm cage match playing in the media. Who gets gets narcissitic headline today? Trump or Musk?
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He's been overpromising autonomous driving Any Day now for more than a decade. He's very practiced at stringing investors along. And now we're sort of in a situation for the investors, and especially the board, analogous to the old adage about debt. "If you owe the bank a million dollars, you have a big problem. If you owe the bank ten billion dollars, the bank has a big problem." The overheated valuation of Tesla's stock rides entirely on this myth that it needs Musk's presence and guiding hand to perform, despite recent years showing otherwise. If the house of cards comes tumbling down, a lot of people stand to lose a looooooooooot of "money."
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It makes me upset to think how much good could be done with $29B.
At a point you have so much it just becomes meaningless to you.
At a point you have so much it just becomes meaningless to you.
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I believe the appropriate phrase is "There's one born every minute...."
Which doesn't change the fact that this is a low margin business with huge amount of competition. Once the novelty wears off, it's dead.
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There's no Roadster. Yes, he did announce it in 2017
Really there are only the Model Y and 3 that sell in any quantity, though at least the other ones technically exist at least.
The Lucid Air has eaten Tesla Model S's lunch (not surprising as the Air would have been the Gen 2 Model S if Husk hadn't driven Rawlinson out of Tesla) and the Lucid Gravity is getting reviews far and above every other EV SUV (although Lucid is having a very hard time with manufacturing ramp and supply chain unfortunately).
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Do not do this. Yes, Tesla is insanely overvalued but for you to make money shorting it you need the cult stock holders to decide that it isn't worth it anymore and decide to sell
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He had the chance to knee-cap world hunger for only 6 billion. He chose not to.
https://finance.yahoo.com/news/elon-musk-said-hed-6-220133724.html
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More to the point, you need the drop to happen very soon after you short the stock.
Shorting, for the general public, is a mug's game. Your upside is limited (maximum is if the stock goes to zero), your downside is limitless. The risk is just too great, as shown by Tesla itself: it's been clearly overvalued for at least three or four years now, but hasn't corrected yet. Figuring out when that correction will come is the hard part, and you'll lose a lot of money waiting if you don't get the timing spot on.
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I’m glad someone else here understands that. They’re hoping that the perception of stability lifts the stock price or at least that it doesn’t go down as much. They’re trying to preserve shareholder wealth.
But ya he’s an arsehole fo’ sho
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I don't understand this delusion that what they want is Musk spending MORE time at the company.
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Have they tried getting the Busy Bee? Maybe that will keep him interested? A fair bit cheaper than $29B too.
View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KLKsmJzn5Q8
View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KLKsmJzn5Q8
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Tesla might make better cars and sell more of them without Musk. Or maybe not. But the stock price would definitely go down. And if you ask an executive whether they should increase the long term viability of their core product or their stock price they will literally not understand the question.
Edit, fixed typo
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There's an important point in the Tesla letter that isn't covered above.
The Tesla Board stated that it urgently needs Musk to return his focus to Tesla to lead the company in "transitioning from its role as a leader in the electric vehicle and renewable energy industries to grow towards becoming a leader in AI, robotics and related services".
In other words, the company doesn't see a whole lot of growth in its core EV and renewables businesses going forward, is panicking, needs to accelerate its pivot to AI, and sees Musk as the only one who can lead such a pivot and sell it to the market.
There's probably some logic to this move. If any other carmaker, priced for extreme growth, tried to sell the idea that it would rapidly shift its focus away from making cars and towards AI and robotics, there would be panic selling. Investors would tell the company to "stick to its knitting". But Musk has a track record of selling the unsellable to his acolytes, and of convincing them to invest in what Tesla could do, rather than what it is doing, so he's the best bet they have.
There's wider market context to this. Foxconn has just announced that it is suspending its Lordstown, Ohio EV plant due to a "soft EV market" in the US, with supplies exceeding demand. It will instead use those resources to build a factory for AI datacentre hardware. EVs are out-of-favour with investors, AI is in, and Tesla wants to quickly shift perceptions so it is known as an "AI company", not a "car company".
The Tesla Board stated that it urgently needs Musk to return his focus to Tesla to lead the company in "transitioning from its role as a leader in the electric vehicle and renewable energy industries to grow towards becoming a leader in AI, robotics and related services".
In other words, the company doesn't see a whole lot of growth in its core EV and renewables businesses going forward, is panicking, needs to accelerate its pivot to AI, and sees Musk as the only one who can lead such a pivot and sell it to the market.
There's probably some logic to this move. If any other carmaker, priced for extreme growth, tried to sell the idea that it would rapidly shift its focus away from making cars and towards AI and robotics, there would be panic selling. Investors would tell the company to "stick to its knitting". But Musk has a track record of selling the unsellable to his acolytes, and of convincing them to invest in what Tesla could do, rather than what it is doing, so he's the best bet they have.
There's wider market context to this. Foxconn has just announced that it is suspending its Lordstown, Ohio EV plant due to a "soft EV market" in the US, with supplies exceeding demand. It will instead use those resources to build a factory for AI datacentre hardware. EVs are out-of-favour with investors, AI is in, and Tesla wants to quickly shift perceptions so it is known as an "AI company", not a "car company".
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Neither do you, because the answer is "yes, of course." If you meant it as either/or, then the answer is "it depends."
In this case, the problem with Tesla isn't visibility of its product. Do you mean "viability"? If so, that assumes Tesla core product line has any foreseeable legs. Spoiler alert: they do not. THAT is the problem. Tesla has no product strategy for their automobile business. What they have is vaporware regarding robotics, "AI," robotaxis, left-handed virtual screwdrivers, digital jade vagina eggs, etc--and the myth of Elon the Genius.
Now, if you meant if you asked a Tesla executive that question, you are right. The answer would be "We will continue to try and teach the bear to dance like Elon told us to do. We are in too deep, now, even though the bear is very sick and never was very bright."
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