Spaniard fatally gored while trying to film bull run on smartphone

Bystander footage shows bull breaking away from herd, running behind crowd barricade.

Read the whole story

 

[Carewolf]

carlisimo[/url]":2g2qad72]Just to be contrarian, I'll put together a mild defense of bullfighting.

Most beef cattle in the developed world are kept in unpleasant conditions, fed in order to maximize growth, and slaughtered at a year and a half. Fighting bulls have always been free-range. Most of them are not selected for fighting or breeding, and are slaughtered at 2-3 years of age. Since the bullfighting industry isn't in the beef business, that beef is relatively low in price and was the only beef a lot of poorer people used to eat before the age of supermarkets.

Bulls selected for fighting are 4 years old or more. When it's their turn to be ritually killed, they're lanced by a guy on horseback to weaken them (especially the neck so that they lower their head in the next two stages), stuck with three pairs of banderillas to further weaken their back and neck muscles (in part to control their side-side motion), and then stabbed by the matador. In theory the last thrust should be through the aorta, but it often doesn't happen that cleanly. It's a slower, more painful ending than the one in the slaughterhouse, but I'm not sure the latter is so much better as to offset the difference in quality of life up to then.

I don't see bullfighting lasting more than a couple of generations. It may go through a phase like in Portugal, where the first two stages of a fight (horseback lancer, and the banderilleros) still happen but the killing does not. I don't see the point - the bull is still wounded and loses a lot of blood, but has to sit around without veterinary care for the weekend before being slaughtered out of public sight.
It's hard to imagine an immediate and outright ban - it's too many jobs for Spain to eliminate. It'll probably slowly fade out due to disinterest. With it will go most of Spain's free range cattle (replaced by imports) and probably the entire breed.

Isn't the portugese bullfighting completely different? From what I saw on the TV when there, it involved a guy wearing a silly hat deliberately taking the force of a charging bull to his chest after which he will hang on to the bulls head and teabag it repeatedly. It seemed a much more noble sport..

 

[Deleted member 330960]

Metaluna[/url]":28stqthw]

robert.walter[/url]":28stqthw]
I bet your cooked slabs of protein are killed relatively quickly and not for entertainment value. There is a world of difference and a definite moral chasm between the two.

This. While neither is great, I have to believe there is a moral difference between doing something that, in small part, contributes to something bad being done somewhere out of your view, versus taking direct personal pleasure out of seeing something bad being done right in front of you for entertainment. One is maybe a sin of ignorance or indifference, the other is close to doing the act yourself.

Indifference or willful ignorance to cruelty should not give you a moral pass in my view.

 

[nutjob2]

Great tech story, Ars! You're going from strength to strength. What's Kim Kash's phone up to these days?

 

[Carewolf]

robert.walter[/url]":1h63j837]

nickf[/url]":1h63j837]

Degru[/url]":1h63j837]I really don't see the point of this whole thing, or why anybody would ever want to do it. Raging bulls that could split off and gore you even if you're just a bystander? Count me out. Also, what about the participants? If you fall behind, what happens?

Because young men.

Originally because bored starving peasants.

Now because bored vain tourists.

As I have read it, it was originally just the farmers, and they ran with the cows to keep them moving through the city, otherwise they would just stop or wander off instead of going to market to get sold or slaughtered like they were supposed to. At some point it became a ritual and then an event.

 

[Deleted member 192806]

Carewolf[/url]":1eo361hx]

robert.walter[/url]":1eo361hx]

nickf[/url]":1eo361hx]

Degru[/url]":1eo361hx]I really don't see the point of this whole thing, or why anybody would ever want to do it. Raging bulls that could split off and gore you even if you're just a bystander? Count me out. Also, what about the participants? If you fall behind, what happens?

Because young men.

Originally because bored starving peasants.

Now because bored vain tourists.

As I have read it, it was originally just the farmers, and they ran with the cows to keep them moving through the city, otherwise they would just stop or wander off instead of going to market to get sold or slaughtered like they were supposed to. At some point it became a ritual and then an event.

Somewhere out there is the "running of the sheep:. Safe, harmless, sheep.

 

[carlisimo]

Carewolf[/url]":2qyt3qpo]

carlisimo[/url]":2qyt3qpo]Just to be contrarian, I'll put together a mild defense of bullfighting.

Most beef cattle in the developed world are kept in unpleasant conditions, fed in order to maximize growth, and slaughtered at a year and a half. Fighting bulls have always been free-range. Most of them are not selected for fighting or breeding, and are slaughtered at 2-3 years of age. Since the bullfighting industry isn't in the beef business, that beef is relatively low in price and was the only beef a lot of poorer people used to eat before the age of supermarkets.

Bulls selected for fighting are 4 years old or more. When it's their turn to be ritually killed, they're lanced by a guy on horseback to weaken them (especially the neck so that they lower their head in the next two stages), stuck with three pairs of banderillas to further weaken their back and neck muscles (in part to control their side-side motion), and then stabbed by the matador. In theory the last thrust should be through the aorta, but it often doesn't happen that cleanly. It's a slower, more painful ending than the one in the slaughterhouse, but I'm not sure the latter is so much better as to offset the difference in quality of life up to then.

I don't see bullfighting lasting more than a couple of generations. It may go through a phase like in Portugal, where the first two stages of a fight (horseback lancer, and the banderilleros) still happen but the killing does not. I don't see the point - the bull is still wounded and loses a lot of blood, but has to sit around without veterinary care for the weekend before being slaughtered out of public sight.
It's hard to imagine an immediate and outright ban - it's too many jobs for Spain to eliminate. It'll probably slowly fade out due to disinterest. With it will go most of Spain's free range cattle (replaced by imports) and probably the entire breed.

Isn't the portugese bullfighting completely different? From what I saw on the TV when there, it involved a guy wearing a silly hat deliberately taking the force of a charging bull to his chest after which he will hang on to the bulls head and teabag it repeatedly. It seemed a much more noble sport..

Only the final stage is completely different. Before that, they wound the bull in order to have a chance against it. I think they do something else in the Azores, though.

 

[Mitlov]

Here's a question: people often stand by the sides of World Rally Championship races. If a car goes out of control, it can be a major threat to bystanders. If someone was filming that event on their smartphone when they were clipped by a car and killed, instead of the running of the bulls, would all the people who are laughing at this guy laugh at that as well?

For those not familiar with the WRC, this is how close spectators get to the cars. Not at all like Formula One or NASCAR.

Spoiler

 

[Mitlov]

Ostracus[/url]":1r68ykrx]

Carewolf[/url]":1r68ykrx]

robert.walter[/url]":1r68ykrx]

nickf[/url]":1r68ykrx]

Degru[/url]":1r68ykrx]I really don't see the point of this whole thing, or why anybody would ever want to do it. Raging bulls that could split off and gore you even if you're just a bystander? Count me out. Also, what about the participants? If you fall behind, what happens?

Because young men.

Originally because bored starving peasants.

Now because bored vain tourists.

As I have read it, it was originally just the farmers, and they ran with the cows to keep them moving through the city, otherwise they would just stop or wander off instead of going to market to get sold or slaughtered like they were supposed to. At some point it became a ritual and then an event.

Somewhere out there is the "running of the sheep:. Safe, harmless, sheep.

I don't know about the running of the sheep, but mutton busting is a popular event at rodeos. Think bullriding, but with little kids and sheep.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Tm_FTC_Za98

 

[FictionalDave]

You mess with the bull you're going to get the horns.

 

[_zZz_]

Isn't the portugese bullfighting completely different? From what I saw on the TV when there, it involved a guy wearing a silly hat deliberately taking the force of a charging bull to his chest after which he will hang on to the bulls head and teabag it repeatedly. It seemed a much more noble sport..

the real portuguese guy is back

In Portugal the bull stuff is typically divided in 3 parts
Largada de touros - bull runs
pega de touros - (group of guy with "big balls" facing the bull directly on the arena
tourada - the typical bullfight, with the difference that they don't kill the bull in the arena (we have no "matadores" like in spain)

Killing the bull in the arena is forbidden except in one small Southern town, Barrancos. There because of "long tradition" it is the only place it can "legally" happen.

I'm not a fan of bull fight, but I have my sincere respect to anyone doing bull riding and "Pega de touros"

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iYQJjdG633A

 

[noanoxan]

Degru[/url]":1ukje6pi]I really don't see the point of this whole thing, or why anybody would ever want to do it. Raging bulls that could split off and gore you even if you're just a bystander? Count me out. Also, what about the participants? If you fall behind, what happens?

It's probably been answered already, but if you're not fast enough to stay ahead, and not smart enough to get out of their way, you die.

I mean, what do you think would happen if a dozen Bulls trample you?

 

[Skelator123]

herozero[/url]":3yeqdh49]

Skelator123[/url]":3yeqdh49]

herozero[/url]":3yeqdh49]Darwin at his finest. To say nothing of the animal torture. Sorry, I hope sympathy wasn't the reaction you were looking for?

What animal torture? This isn't a bull fight.

You truly can't be serious? It's the bull fighting prequel. At least that's what awaits the survivors of the actual run.

"Most tourists don’t know that all the bulls who run in the streets of Pamplona, Spain, are later killed in the bullring. Before the runs, the bulls are kept in crowded, dark enclosures, and when they are prodded onto the streets, they are momentarily blinded by the sunlight. Runners hit them with rolled-up newspapers. The panicked animals can lose their footing on corners and crash into walls, possibly breaking bones or otherwise injuring themselves. They will be stabbed to death at the end of each day."

http://www.peta.org/issues/animals-in-e ... lfighting/

I'm no tree-hugger and I'm also not a sociopath who likes to kill fucking animals in the worst way possible.

I'm sorry, but you're going to need something more objective and reputable than a PETA propaganda piece.
If it's true that all the bulls end up in the fighting pits, then I stand corrected, but I still have a hard time agreeing that the running part is 'torture'.
Just look at your quote. Temporarily blinded by the sunlight is torture? Give me a break.

 

[Carewolf]

_zZz_[/url]":tteskgeu]

Isn't the portugese bullfighting completely different? From what I saw on the TV when there, it involved a guy wearing a silly hat deliberately taking the force of a charging bull to his chest after which he will hang on to the bulls head and teabag it repeatedly. It seemed a much more noble sport..

the real portuguese guy is back

In Portugal the bull stuff is typically divided in 3 parts
Largada de touros - bull runs
pega de touros - (group of guy with "big balls" facing the bull directly on the arena
tourada - the typical bullfight, with the difference that they don't kill the bull in the arena (we have no "matadores" like in spain)

Killing the bull in the arena is forbidden except in one small Southern town, Barrancos. There because of "long tradition" it is the only place it can "legally" happen.

I'm not a fan of bull fight, but I have my sincere respect to anyone doing bull riding and "Pega de touros"

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iYQJjdG633A

So what I have been watching must have been the second phase, guys trying to wrestle a full grown bull by hanging onto its face.

 

[Quiet Desperation]

Alyeska[/url]":22t30vzq]I see a lot of people are quick to mock the victim. I would like to point out that he was trying to stay away from the mayhem. He was behind a protective barrier and deeper into the crowd staying away from the bulls. It isn't his fault that a bull got loose and snuck up behind him in the chaos.

People seem to be thinking he was part of the run and turned around to snap a selfie or something.

That being said, if my town announces a running of the bulls, I will be visiting someone or something way out of town that day.

Actually, we do have a running of race cars once a year. People get right up close to 1500 lb objects moving at 200 mph with only a low concrete barrier and wire fencing between them.

 

[dorkbert]

Zorro[/url]":2zvzubv5]Darwin Award achieved.

The deceased qualifies for the award only if the deceased leaves no offspring.

 

[Quiet Desperation]

Skelator123[/url]":cpi19jig]I'm sorry, but you're going to need something more objective and reputable than a PETA propaganda piece.
If it's true that all the bulls end up in the fighting pits, then I stand corrected, but I still have a hard time agreeing that the running part is 'torture'.

If you think about it, the run is giving the bulls a chance to take one of those bastard humans with them.

 

[Golgo1]

Mitlov[/url]":1t1scaa3] If someone was filming that event on their smartphone when they were clipped by a car and killed, instead of the running of the bulls, would all the people who are laughing at this guy laugh at that as well?

Yes

Well, certainly not laughing, but if you choose to stand there and get smoked, to me, that is the same as a bull-runner. I would love to experience a rally (the best kind of racing ), but I'd never stand that close. And I'd sure as hell know where cars were at every single moment, not staring through my phone.

There are things that are OBVIOUSLY dangerous.
You have every right to go ahead and do them, but I have every right to think you are a dumbass for thinking the risk-reward formula for the situation worked out to "good idea!"

 

[Deleted member 330960]

Golgo1[/url]":1g6ppnwx]

Mitlov[/url]":1g6ppnwx] If someone was filming that event on their smartphone when they were clipped by a car and killed, instead of the running of the bulls, would all the people who are laughing at this guy laugh at that as well?

Yes

Well you're an insensitive jerk. Good for you.

 

[senzen]

Natural selection hard at work.

 

[ziegler]

Zorro[/url]":5x24jvqq]Darwin Award achieved.

You cant say that with certainty.
Since he is unidentified...we don't know if he managed to procreate....procreation disqualifies you for a Darwin Award.

 

[yankinwaoz]

x75[/url]":31j4vw8s]

bthylafh[/url]":31j4vw8s]It's news because they do it with technology?

I suppose it's probably news because it's a good example of what can happen when you're distracted by some whiz-gadget. That it happened during a bull run is not the point.

I actually managed to climb out of my hole-cave and go downtown the other day. People left and right just walking while using cell-phones and not paying attention to the world around them. I get it, but that doesn't mean I have to like it.

I got rid of my cell phone about five years ago and was happy to do it. It's been a blessed and innocent time, but those days are now over. My new phone arrives probably tomorrow and to see a story about some guy just enjoying his day of filming a bunch of raging and powerful mammals lose his life because he was preoccupied with proving to people that he was there, well, I take this as a very direct warning.

Our brains were not meant to be preoccupied by trivialities all the time. Put the phone away and look around. There's a beautiful and dangerous world right next to you.

*sigh* Humans. Wadda gonna do?

If the Titanic sank today...

 

[dzx12]

Dilbert[/url]":3bbkpe6b]

bthylafh[/url]":3bbkpe6b]It's news because they do it with technology?

....on a computer?

Quick! Make sure you patent it!

 

[dzx12]

D_K_night[/url]":iarz8hwb]

binaryspiral[/url]":iarz8hwb]The injuries in this even are never surprising. Stupid is as stupid does.

It's all so easy for us, wagging our fingers at the "stupid" around us, and feeling all superior to them in our armchairs, thinking oh we'd never do such a thing, we're way too sophisticated for that kinda stuff, that only the uneducated, and lesser-evolved beings would.

But let's not get too cocky and judgmental here. The day will come for each and every one of us. Whether it's an injury from workplace or pleasure, the next time we find ourselves in intense agony from a serious wound, be it physical or emotional...hey try not to think of the spirit of the fella we all made fun of, hovering over us and smirking.

There's a difference between an accident and deliberately doing some stupid. This is the latter but of course, you're too arrogant and pious to see the difference.

 

[heftysmurf]

Nobody would shed a tear if a guy filming a world war two massacre was hit by a stray bullet. Human treatment of oxen is almost universally appalling, with even levels of treatment considered "good" coming down to relatively kind imprisonment before slaughter at 10% of their life expectancy or being permanently impregnated only to have calf after calf dragged off and killed at birth. If you did any part of this to humans even the hippiest commune of the capital of Unicornia would have you before a firing squad.

Whatever this person was taking the video for, they - like everyone else there - were in tacit endorsement of the ritualised torture and murder of arguably sentient beings whose sole crime was the very poor fortune of not being human, and the only tragedy is that more spectators aren't killed to the point where this whole façade is ended for good. Not for food, just an obscene exploitation of those without a voice.

 

[bdnsjjsf]

Play stupid games, win stupid prizes...

 

[fryhole]

Spaniard gets mauled at bull run = same thing as stating that a toddler just went poop on the toilet for the first time.

 

[fryhole]

The bystander video, posted Sunday on Instagram (not linked here due to its graphic nature),

Nothing new regarding ARS hypocrasy then:

Guy getting mauled by a bull is more violent than multiple ARS postings of people getting shot mulitple times at point blank range by trigger happy cops.

http://meincmagazine.com/tech-policy/2015 ... bjections/

http://meincmagazine.com/tech-policy/2015 ... e-to-stop/

NOTE: Basic search on ARS pulls up a whole shit ton of links with violent videos.

What did the bull stop to eat the dead spaniard after he got run through ?

 

[fryhole]

Ostracus[/url]":13dfnipq]
Somewhere out there is the "running of the sheep:. Safe, harmless, sheep.

Unless they're Rams.

 

[foxyshadis]

fryhole[/url]":1y43y62x]

The bystander video, posted Sunday on Instagram (not linked here due to its graphic nature),

Nothing new regarding ARS hypocrasy then:

Guy getting mauled by a bull is more violent than multiple ARS postings of people getting shot mulitple times at point blank range by trigger happy cops.

http://meincmagazine.com/tech-policy/2015 ... bjections/

http://meincmagazine.com/tech-policy/2015 ... e-to-stop/

NOTE: Basic search on ARS pulls up a whole shit ton of links with violent videos.

What did the bull stop to eat the dead spaniard after he got run through ?

The difference is that there's no possible social policy or justice that might come of watching the video, which trumps the norms of decency in situations where authorities have killed for no reason. Ars seems to feel that you should be disturbed by deep societal problems, enough to take action, so there's a good enough reason to show what normally wouldn't be shown.

Watching a guy get gored because he was putting himself in danger is just gorn and schadenfreude. You can hop on youtube if you want that. Hell, even the Discovery channel airs them now.