Sony killing features for antenna, set-top box users of Bravia smart TVs in May
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My days of buying Sony TVs may be over.
So sad to watch what they’re turning into.
So sad to watch what they’re turning into.
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That $4500 smart TV you bought for Christmas? It's going to turn into a dumb TV five months later.
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I really can't recommend Tablo. What used to be a great company got bought out by some clown car tech company, and they are pretty much trash now. They stripped really useful features out, and their free programming is absolute junk. Their developers are not very skilled either, which I suspect is why so many features were removed in current models.
There's really no decent antenna DVR when it comes down to it. Every single one has major failures in usefulness. Currently I'm using Hulu with Live TV, but the price is nuts. So I'm looking for alternatives. But until someone actually builds a decent Antenna DVR, my antenna is going to serve as a place for hummingbird nests and not much else.
As for set top boxes, my HighSense TV has Google TV, but I don't even see it when I use my AppleTV remote. (Great timing, no doubt since Apple Maps ads are possibly a precursor to ads on Apple TV?)
There's really no decent antenna DVR when it comes down to it. Every single one has major failures in usefulness. Currently I'm using Hulu with Live TV, but the price is nuts. So I'm looking for alternatives. But until someone actually builds a decent Antenna DVR, my antenna is going to serve as a place for hummingbird nests and not much else.
As for set top boxes, my HighSense TV has Google TV, but I don't even see it when I use my AppleTV remote. (Great timing, no doubt since Apple Maps ads are possibly a precursor to ads on Apple TV?)
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Sony sold their tv production to a Chinese company. I guess they are going in for a cheap collapse.
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RickRoyLeonPrisZhoraRacha
Ars Scholae Palatinae
Once I read (on Ars) that Sony was collaborating with TCL, that was the end. Sony XBR was king as was its broadcast gear. But over time, the Bravia line was priced high and while great picture, LG and Samsung upped the game.
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J.C. Helios
Ars Scholae Palatinae
We appreciate this counterfactual thing that you definitely don't have, because of our deliberate vagueness.
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Built-in TV guides require an Internet connection so people who keep their TVs offline are getting their OTA scheduling information from somewhere else.
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If you loved planned obsolescence, just wait until you try forced obsolescence!
Don’t worry about stuff breaking before you replace it - we’re going to break it for you, while consumer electronics prices are the highest they’ve ever been!
Never forget Sony didn’t force ads on you, we broke your TV instead because we love you (or your money).
Don’t worry about stuff breaking before you replace it - we’re going to break it for you, while consumer electronics prices are the highest they’ve ever been!
Never forget Sony didn’t force ads on you, we broke your TV instead because we love you (or your money).
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Don't like it but I can guess why. OTA TV in the US does not provide guide data so the OEMs have to source it themselves - which is an ongoing cost. If few people are using it, why continue to provide it? Yes I'm sure a few lawsuits will be inevitable but the cost of settling is probably cheaper than continuing to provide the service. Unless someone can force Sony to continue providing the service I get the business logic for this change, even if it's horrible for the consumer.
Compare that to the UK (and I'm pretty sure Australia), where the transmitters are centrally owned and operated and provide 7 days of guide data OTA. It's why my old 2010 built HTPC with Windows 7 can operate offline but Windows Media Center can still grab guide data and record TV perfectly well, even if streaming on a Win 7 PC is dicey from a security standpoint.
--
For the discontinued 3rd gen devices they remain as good as they were and I'd happily recommend one - if, you could still buy one with the lifetime guide data. It was bad enough when they reduced the lifetime guide data to a single device from a per-account basis but ending sales of lifetime data was a bad decision from the end-user side (you can now only buy annual or monthly guide data for those models).
Agree that the 4th gen are terrible, I simply could not set on up on any Android phone I have (2 Pixels and a Sony X10 III) so ended up borrowing my wife's iPhone. Requiring location permission is a massive red flag among other issues (mainly that Internet loss and server outages can render the device useless, insane for an OTA device that only needs external connectivity for guide data).
Admittedly I bought the 2-tuner 4th gen model for $69 with lifetime data included when on sale last year. Our 3rd gen model cost $140 and another £150 for the guide data. Money well spent but expensive and why the pivot to cheap, data harvesting devices makes sense for the OEM, even if it doesn't for the customer.
What worries me is that the latest software let's me use the 4th gen apps and "experience" on my 3rd gen device. And calling it "Legacy Transition" does worry me that they'll end the 3rd gen experience permamently in the near future.
Compare that to the UK (and I'm pretty sure Australia), where the transmitters are centrally owned and operated and provide 7 days of guide data OTA. It's why my old 2010 built HTPC with Windows 7 can operate offline but Windows Media Center can still grab guide data and record TV perfectly well, even if streaming on a Win 7 PC is dicey from a security standpoint.
--
For the discontinued 3rd gen devices they remain as good as they were and I'd happily recommend one - if, you could still buy one with the lifetime guide data. It was bad enough when they reduced the lifetime guide data to a single device from a per-account basis but ending sales of lifetime data was a bad decision from the end-user side (you can now only buy annual or monthly guide data for those models).
Agree that the 4th gen are terrible, I simply could not set on up on any Android phone I have (2 Pixels and a Sony X10 III) so ended up borrowing my wife's iPhone. Requiring location permission is a massive red flag among other issues (mainly that Internet loss and server outages can render the device useless, insane for an OTA device that only needs external connectivity for guide data).
Admittedly I bought the 2-tuner 4th gen model for $69 with lifetime data included when on sale last year. Our 3rd gen model cost $140 and another £150 for the guide data. Money well spent but expensive and why the pivot to cheap, data harvesting devices makes sense for the OEM, even if it doesn't for the customer.
What worries me is that the latest software let's me use the 4th gen apps and "experience" on my 3rd gen device. And calling it "Legacy Transition" does worry me that they'll end the 3rd gen experience permamently in the near future.
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Yeah but Samsung and LG are even more enshitified than Sony. There are NO decent smart TVs any more. Either save up (a lot) for a professional monitor or buy a “smart” TV and never connect it to the internet and use it with an Apple TV (or similar). But be alert, as some TVs have to be connected to the internet as part of their set up process otherwise they won’t even work as a dumb TV.
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I grew up in an age when the municipal water districts and power companies had to watch certain TV shows to ensure that the water pressure was available and energy kept flowing during their commercial breaks, because so tens of millions of the viewing public were watching the exact same show at the exact same time. And they had to pee, turn on more lights, or do other things during the commercial.
That don't happen anymore.
The entire social fabric of then-modern America ebbed and flowed with the schedule of commercial television for 40 years or more. It was reliable, predictable, and everyone was doing the same dances at the same time, and talking about it the next day at the office.
Today, it's fucking chaos. From 3 channels (and then 4) it went to 300,000 and growing. All of them vying for eyes, and YOUR CASH, with every one of them believing they're too precious to die.
Now, make a "TV" for THAT and see what you end up with.
I think television makers will get there someday. But my sense is that it's still clinging a bit too hard to the I Love Lucy days and forgetting that era is gone and dead and has been for 40 fucking years, and they don't exactly know how to fix it.
At least, that's the vibe I get from manufacturers who seem to be trying to cleave to the same paradigm social paradigms as TV salesfolk did in the 1960's.
That don't happen anymore.
The entire social fabric of then-modern America ebbed and flowed with the schedule of commercial television for 40 years or more. It was reliable, predictable, and everyone was doing the same dances at the same time, and talking about it the next day at the office.
Today, it's fucking chaos. From 3 channels (and then 4) it went to 300,000 and growing. All of them vying for eyes, and YOUR CASH, with every one of them believing they're too precious to die.
Now, make a "TV" for THAT and see what you end up with.
I think television makers will get there someday. But my sense is that it's still clinging a bit too hard to the I Love Lucy days and forgetting that era is gone and dead and has been for 40 fucking years, and they don't exactly know how to fix it.
At least, that's the vibe I get from manufacturers who seem to be trying to cleave to the same paradigm social paradigms as TV salesfolk did in the 1960's.
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Some of these models are still within their warranty period, or available new.
How is that considered forever?
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Except that almost every competitor is going thru some form of enshittification, too. It is so sad to watch the entire industry turn into garbage.
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I find it interesting that the UK needed a significant amount of on-demand power generation (often using pumped hydro storage) because so many people would run to the kitchen and turn on the electric kettle during breaks in major games.
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This is the only sensible take in this thread that I've seen. Companies rarely do things out of pure spite.
What I'm really curious about is the limitations on set-top-boxes, how would a TV's built-in feature affect the ability to use a set-top box? Was this some kind of enhanced mode/feature where you could use the TV's guide to switch cable channels? The article doesn't make this very clear.
All Google TV devices that I've seen let you set it up as a dumb TV out of the box with no internet connectivity, the Android-specific features are just disabled. The UX for this is actually pretty nice.
As for Sony and TCL, it's sad, but TCL was probably building the majority of Sony's late-model TVs anyway, it was Sony's processing and the high-quality build that made them special. I am (somewhat) optimistic that these newer TVs will retain the quality. TCL's mid-to-high range is quite good these days.
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I wish that "dumb TV" were easily and commercially available ... you know just stupid panels to hook up and HDMI or even better a Display Port. (Don't tell me it's called a monitor, I want a 55-60inch pannel, period)
All TVs are dumb TVs if you don’t connect it to the Internet. I have an LG 65 C5 that has not and will never see the Internet.
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That already happened when the Find my remote stopped working through Google Home. Literally the only smart feature I used.
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Modern OTA digital TV systems all over the world include electronic program guide information in the broadcast signal, no internet required.
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Removing the OTA guide feature means you have one less reason to connect your "smart" TV to the Internet.I wish that "dumb TV" were easily and commercially available ... you know just stupid panels to hook up and HDMI or even better a Display Port. (Don't tell me it's called a monitor, I want a 55-60inch pannel, period)
As if the spying and the ads weren't enough.
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Eh... it kind of sucks, but really, not a big deal. I have a much older Sony TV that doesn't have any kind of on-screen guide for antenna TV viewing; it's really not that big a deal when there's only around 15-20 primary channels (and another 45 or so subchannels that all play the same three episodes of Gunsmoke 24 hours a day).
It does suck that Sony is leaving the TV market; reviews still seem to prefer their color and image processing, even if they are lagging in other metrics (and cost). I'm still debating whether to grab one of the last real Sony TVs before the TCL transition.
It does suck that Sony is leaving the TV market; reviews still seem to prefer their color and image processing, even if they are lagging in other metrics (and cost). I'm still debating whether to grab one of the last real Sony TVs before the TCL transition.
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There was literally a guy paid to keep an eye on Eastenders, and get the power stations primed for the kettle surge at the end of the episode.
The stability of the UK grid required it.
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Set up my parents with Plex, but they still like to flip thru TV channels. I don't think they even go into the Smart features or guide.
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It could be worse and Sony/TCL pulls the Visio and just removes the tuner from future models.
They're probably making it worse so when ATSC 1.0 goes dark. They made it so bad that you won't care.
I think the larger issue will be ASTC 3.0 in that manufacturer's don't want to pay to support it and the baggage of DRM OTA. So soon if things go the way they are you can't run your Smart TV "Dumb" by not connecting it because you can't get OTA without an internet connection. And you'll blame the manufacturer and not the industry that came up with the ATSC 3.0 DRM. LG fought against it and dropped ATSC 3.0 from their TV's ages ago.
They're probably making it worse so when ATSC 1.0 goes dark. They made it so bad that you won't care.
I think the larger issue will be ASTC 3.0 in that manufacturer's don't want to pay to support it and the baggage of DRM OTA. So soon if things go the way they are you can't run your Smart TV "Dumb" by not connecting it because you can't get OTA without an internet connection. And you'll blame the manufacturer and not the industry that came up with the ATSC 3.0 DRM. LG fought against it and dropped ATSC 3.0 from their TV's ages ago.
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It sounds absolutely insane but you're right, Google TV is the best OS for a dumb TV. I think step one is select your language but step two is picking it it's a smart TV or a dumb TV. If you pick dumb TV it just sends you on your way.
Google of all companies...
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I bet it involves AI, no, really. Either they cut resources to refocus on AI, are discontinuing models that don't support AI, or whatever.
All my smart TVs were turned into dumb TVs anyway, and none of those were made by Sony.
I'm a sucker for tech, however current tech trends have stopped me from buying anything. The last TV, my LG C1, was purchased sometime around 2022, which is also the year I built my last PC.
I've not purchased a single gadget since, nor do I plan to. I encourage others to do the same.
All my smart TVs were turned into dumb TVs anyway, and none of those were made by Sony.
I'm a sucker for tech, however current tech trends have stopped me from buying anything. The last TV, my LG C1, was purchased sometime around 2022, which is also the year I built my last PC.
I've not purchased a single gadget since, nor do I plan to. I encourage others to do the same.
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My 8-year-old LG OLED B7A is looking better and better these days. A simple "Smart TV" interface with minimal advertising and a full-featured OTA EPG. And the picture it produces is as stunningly gorgeous as it was the day I bought it. I mainly use my Apple TV 4K on it though.
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YetAnotherAnonymousAppellation
Ars Praefectus
I foresee a future where TVs will no longer allow you to deny them access to the Internet. Instead they'll monitor the Wi-Fi bands looking for an open router or one still running a breachable security protocol and just attach themselves. The only way to prevent this will be to physically disable the Wi-Fi hardware.
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Japanese website specifies a bit more information in regards to the above
https://www.sony.jp/bravia/info2/20260409.html
The following display functions available on BRAVIA TVs will be discontinued from late May 2026 onwards due to a change in our contract with the data provider.
We apologize for any inconvenience or trouble this may cause our customers, and we appreciate your understanding.
[Function to end display]
TV BRAVIA
"Video & TV SideView"
"Customer Review Ranking"
"New Drama/Anime Guide" and "Reservation Ranking"
https://www.sony.jp/bravia/info2/
https://www.sony.jp/bd/info2/
https://www.sony.jp/bravia/info2/20260409.html
The following display functions available on BRAVIA TVs will be discontinued from late May 2026 onwards due to a change in our contract with the data provider.
We apologize for any inconvenience or trouble this may cause our customers, and we appreciate your understanding.
[Function to end display]
- Program thumbnails when the program guide is displayed.
- "Program thumbnails" when the "TV menu" is displayed.
TV BRAVIA
- Models released in 2024: BRAVIA 9 (XR90), BRAVIA 8 (XR80), BRAVIA 7 (XR70), A95L series
- Models to be released in 2025: BRAVIA 5 (XR50) series
"Video & TV SideView"
"Customer Review Ranking"
"New Drama/Anime Guide" and "Reservation Ranking"
https://www.sony.jp/bravia/info2/
https://www.sony.jp/bd/info2/
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More likely it'll be a deeply-discounted version of a current model, with the caveat that the TV will refuse to function without a reliable, working internet connection, and you must accept all of the data-gathering and advertising features.
They're already going in this direction, the next step is to make it an explicit offer.
Telly TV has done this; the more mainstream manufacturers can't be far behind. Especially a brand like Vizio.
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Have you looked at a Pi with TVHeadend and then some UI like Kodi? I gave it a go with a janky USB DVB stick and it was alright. I expect it would be better with the official Pi TV HAT. There may be TVHeadend player apps for streaming OSes too, in which case the Pi is just for capture and serving over the network.
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