Sony confirms “high-end” PS4 Neo, but it wont be at E3

Games for 4K capable system will largely overlap with library for current PS4.

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[edzieba]

Hopefully this will make a retail appearance befoe/the same time as PSVR. I'd have to buy a PS4, then less than a year later end up with a newer version. A no-show at E3 doesn't make that seem likely though.

 

[Sasparilla]

4k BlueRay drive / player?

 

[Zebulon314]

So, if Neo isn't needed for Morpheus, I'm confused about the point.

They will play the same games, they can use the same peripherals... why confuse things? All this for 4K seems a bit premature.

 

[Elindalyne]

Considering that Project Scorpio (Microsoft's VR capable XBone) isn't rumored to come out until at least early 2017, I'd doubt that something that rumors surfaced for later would come out before then.

 

[haar]

Since it is not a replacement, they can release a new "stronger, faster, better" console later...
Augmenting it not replacing it ...

 

[ElectricBlue]

Sony has really bungled the messaging on Neo, this whole episode got me back into PC Gaming and I'm not terribly interested in iterative closed platforms going forward as it ends the last advantage consoles had left. I decided to keep my PS4 around for big exclusives but after playing Witcher 3 at 120 FPS I'm never going back for anything else.

 

[Statistical]

games that would largely work on both consoles

Well that is a little alarming. I thought the original goal was universal game support. It sounds like Sony won't contractually obligate game companies to ensure dual support.

 

[alanmies]

Zebulon314[/url]":1nv0ie35]So, if Neo isn't needed for Morpheus, I'm confused about the point.

They will play the same games, they can use the same peripherals... why confuse things? All this for 4K seems a bit premature.

I wrote about this earlier, 100% based on rumours but ones that make some sense (at least to me). And 4K Blu-Ray is a new thing, and Sony is also a media company, which explains it partially.

 

[xgerrit]

Zak[/url]":3r55qp7k]So this will have GTX1080 in it? Maybe two? Because no other card can really push 4k comfortably. Even 1080 is not a real 4k part yet.

4k gaming is just a useless buzzword at this time.

It's not totally useless in the world of consoles, because anything above 1080p will look better on a 4K TV, but obviously we're pretty far away from true 4K consoles.

 

[slymenstra hymen]

Zak[/url]":3lptpdm3]So this will have GTX1080 in it? Maybe two? Because no other card can really push 4k comfortably. Even 1080 is not a real 4k part yet.

4k gaming is just a useless buzzword at this time.

They're obviously not talking about modern AAA games running at 4k, AFAIK it's just support for it unlike the PS4.

 

[Tijger]

Zak[/url]":3gj1dhf2]So this will have GTX1080 in it? Maybe two? Because no other card can really push 4k comfortably. Even 1080 is not a real 4k part yet.

4k gaming is just a useless buzzword at this time.

He didn't say 4k GAMING, he said it was 4K capable. Note the difference.

 

[Deleted member 545801]

Sasparilla[/url]":3nv2dk4w]4k BlueRay drive / player?

I think that'll be it: 4K for movies, and 1080P 60 FPS for games. As others have mentioned, a GPU required to push 4K games would make the console prohibitively expensive for most consumers (see the launch price of the PS3, for example).

Meanwhile, 4K TV's and content are a bit of a chicken and egg problem right now: consumers are holding off upgrading to a 4K TV because there isn't much 4K content, and there isn't much 4K content because people aren't rushing to upgrade their TV's. So, by providing hardware that would support 4K for movies, Netflix, etc. Sony would expand the market for 4K TV's, allowing them to sell more TV's. I wouldn't be surprised to see a PS4K and 4K TV bundle from Sony down the road.

 

[Red Herring]

Zebulon314[/url]":1dinffdf]So, if Neo isn't needed for Morpheus, I'm confused about the point.

They will play the same games, they can use the same peripherals... why confuse things? All this for 4K seems a bit premature.

Neo was never meant for Morpheus some got confused and thought it was.

Sony is doing an iPhone 5/6 style hardware/software eco-system so it doesn't have to split it's base or introduce a PS5 at least not for 4-5 more years from now.

They can do an upgrade and keeps things ticking along, keep in mind when the PS4 launched a couple of years ago it was just a mid-range PC. Any one who does a PC game does it with multi-detail levels, the consoles are roughly equivalent to normal/medium settings these days they arent using the high details offered in PC games.

 

[Katana314]

In case anyone's skeptic, Sony already had kind of a "scalable model" to their software kit with the PlayStation Vita. You tended to see a fair number of both indie and AAA games where, as long as the game didn't require heavy physics or memory usage, or was too hard to see under downscaled graphics, played the same on both consoles.

I'd hope that they've done the smart thing and avoid including actual new low-level *features* in the bigger console. Even though they're recommending it, no developer should be tempted to state "Whizz-Bang mode works only on PlayStation Neo."

 

[xgerrit]

So.. it seems safe to assume that Sony is giving this to the Financial Times now to protect their stock price because they know Microsoft's about to announce the new Xbox at E3?

Edit: I'm not picking console sides here. =P Just pointing out that it's not normal for Sony to give this to FT, and they want investors to know this now.. so they're trying to counter *something* that's coming at E3.

 

[greatn]

Given the purported spec, the 4k resolution is almost certainly only talking about multimedia content, while the games will probably be bumped to 1080p 60fps.

 

[haar]

Zak[/url]":1niumiry]So this will have GTX1080 in it? Maybe two? Because no other card can really push 4k comfortably. Even 1080 is not a real 4k part yet.

4k gaming is just a useless buzzword at this time.

WHAT?

OVERWATCH on a GTX980, can be played at 4K at 60fps on ultimate settings. (Default)

GTAV can be played at 4K on very-high, shadows softer... at 60Fps on a gtx980SLI (a gtx1080 is effectively a SLI gtx980)

As long as you do not select higher "no-real-difference" settings in game, a gtx980 can play 4K "under protest"

..............

Well, it is a wait and see thing for what the PS4K "brings to the table"... Because 4K bluray will not sell consoles at 100 or more dollars over a PS4.

If it has a M.2 or SSD slot for a caching drive, in addition to the standard drive slot, it will be a sale for me.
(If the PS4K has a white Destiny "iron king" special edition, it will be a sale for me)

 

[Leiesoldat]

TomWestrick[/url]":11f2ywz2]

Sasparilla[/url]":11f2ywz2]4k BlueRay drive / player?

Meanwhile, 4K TV's and content are a bit of a chicken and egg problem right now: consumers are holding off upgrading to a 4K TV because there isn't much 4K content, and there isn't much 4K content because people aren't rushing to upgrade their TV's. So, by providing hardware that would support 4K for movies, Netflix, etc. Sony would expand the market for 4K TV's, allowing them to sell more TV's. I wouldn't be surprised to see a PS4K and 4K TV bundle from Sony down the road.

I disagree. There is plenty of 4K content right now on Netflix and Amazon Prime, with more scheduled for this summer and fall. Vizio just released 4K TV's that bring the cost of 4K down significantly compared to Samsung and Sony's overpriced offerings. What I would like to see in the PS4K is HDR support. If that doesn't have it, then the system really isn't worth buying.

 

[Little-Zen]

So basically, we still don't know what we didn't know, but we do know that we don't know it but it IS coming at some point.

And none of the speculation has changed from when the rumours first started.

Still, I appreciate that Sony doesn't want to show it off to take attention away from other things coming for PS4. I'm pretty much sold on one at this point, but I've got a pile of games from last generation I'm still trying to finish before buying a new console.

 

[xgerrit]

greatn[/url]":ekgcxs5p]Given the purported spec, the 4k resolution is almost certainly only talking about multimedia content, while the games will probably be bumped to 1080p 60fps.

I'm putting my money on them doubling the game resolution and marketing it as "Made for 4K TVs with 2x the detail!" It still wouldn't be 4K and that might annoy us techies, but it would technically be true, it would demo well and it's a sales pitch people can immediately grasp without making the old PS4 (which they're still selling) look like a stuttering mess by comparison.

Edit: Fixed my mixup with the resolutions. (Thanks Statistical!)

 

[necrosis]

Statistical[/url]":1l9xasd0]

games that would largely work on both consoles

Well that is a little alarming. I thought the original goal was universal game support. It sounds like Sony won't contractually obligate game companies to ensure dual support.

And this is precisely why I think its a dumb ass idea.

Oh just got a PS4 2 years ago? Well now you have to spend another $400-$600 on a new system because these games run like raging crap/dont run at all on the PS4.

 

[Rommel102]

Who wants to take a bet that they decided to scrap any E3 plans when the Scorpio rumors came out and showed the specs significantly higher than the Neo?

No reason to rush out a Neo this fall and be inferior to Scorpio when it launches. Back to the drawing board!

Competition is fun!

 

[seraphimcaduto]

What about an AMD Radeon RX 480? That's supposed to be able to push VR and 4K h265 encode/decode at $199.

Credit to anandtech for that bit of knowledge: http://www.anandtech.com/show/10389/amd ... th-for-199

Edit: forgot to add "I wonder if it's possible that AMD is doing something special with the APU, like adding a RX 480..."

 

[Ars Moriendi]

Do you think he meant it wouldn't be playable at E3 or that there would be no mention of it at E3?

I can't imagine not announcing it there.

EDIT: Re-read it more carefully, I am full of wrong-sauce

 

[Rommel102]

Ars Moriendi[/url]":159wd0tm]Do you think he meant it wouldn't be playable at E3 or that there would be no mention of it at E3?

I can't imagine not announcing it there.

If you are going to announce something at E3 you don't talk about it 3 days earlier.

 

[auxilio]

Rommel102[/url]":ibr7fxd1]Who wants to take a bet that they decided to scrap any E3 plans when the Scorpio rumors came out and showed the specs significantly higher than the Neo?

No reason to rush out a Neo this fall and be inferior to Scorpio when it launches. Back to the drawing board!

Competition is fun!

As an Xbox guy, I'm happy that Sony pushed Microsoft into Scorpio. Hopefully Scorpio made Sony escalate their plans for Neo and then it will come back and push MS even further.

 

[greatn]

xgerrit[/url]":1jvjj2gk]

greatn[/url]":1jvjj2gk]Given the purported spec, the 4k resolution is almost certainly only talking about multimedia content, while the games will probably be bumped to 1080p 60fps.

I'm putting my money on them bumping game resolutions to 2K and marketing it as "Made for 4K TVs with 4x the detail!" Yes, that would annoy us techies, but it's technically true, it would demo well and it's a sales pitch people can immediately grasp without making the old PS4 look like a stuttering mess.

Yeah I could see that. If given a choice though between higher resolution or more stable 60fps framerate, I'd choose the framerate every time though. If they can do both, great.

 

[GreyAreaUK]

necrosis[/url]":3gogrxyq]

Statistical[/url]":3gogrxyq]

games that would largely work on both consoles

Well that is a little alarming. I thought the original goal was universal game support. It sounds like Sony won't contractually obligate game companies to ensure dual support.

And this is precisely why I think its a dumb ass idea.

Oh just got a PS4 2 years ago? Well now you have to spend another $400-$600 on a new system because these games run like raging crap/dont run at all on the PS4.

Did you actually read the article?

From the article:

All games will support the standard PS4 and we anticipate all or a very large majority of games will also support the high-end PS4

In other words, ALL games must support the STANDARD PS4, and games can OPTIONALLY support the 4K version.

 

[Statistical]

greatn[/url]":18emhtmj]Given the purported spec, the 4k resolution is almost certainly only talking about multimedia content, while the games will probably be bumped to 1080p 60fps.

I'm putting my money on them bumping game resolutions to 2K and marketing it as "Made for 4K TVs with 4x the detail!" Yes, that would annoy us techies, but it's technically true, it would demo well and it's a sales pitch people can immediately grasp without making the old PS4 look like a stuttering mess.

1080p IS 2K (well 1.98K if you like).


1920 x 1080 (2K = measure of horizontal resolution, 1080p = measure of vertical resolution, 2.07 million pixels)
3840 x 2160 (4K = measure of horizontal resolution, 2160p = measure of vertical resolution, 8.29 million pixels)

They could render at some interim resolution like 2560 x 1440 (3.69 million pixels) and then upconvert it to 4K. Then again would if that would be better than just 1080p @ 60 fps upconverted?

 

[Rommel102]

auxilio[/url]":1nnweo2h]

Rommel102[/url]":1nnweo2h]Who wants to take a bet that they decided to scrap any E3 plans when the Scorpio rumors came out and showed the specs significantly higher than the Neo?

No reason to rush out a Neo this fall and be inferior to Scorpio when it launches. Back to the drawing board!

Competition is fun!

As an Xbox guy, I'm happy that Sony pushed Microsoft into Scorpio. Hopefully Scorpio made Sony escalate their plans for Neo and then it will come back and push MS even further.

I don't know was chicken and who was egg, but Scorpio had to be in the works for quite some time. When Sony announced Morpheus I think it made some Microsoft folks look at what their response could be, and that is when they decided to skip building their own hardware and just go with a more powerful Xbox that could handle the already wildly popular Rift/Vive.

Will they talk about it at E3? It's a mic drop moment if they announce either Rift or Vive (or both) support, so we'll see.

 

[fuzzyfuzzyfungus]

seraphimcaduto[/url]":1kdto1iw]What about an AMD Radeon RX 480? That's supposed to be able to push VR and 4K h265 encode/decode at $199.

Credit to anandtech for that bit of knowledge: http://www.anandtech.com/show/10389/amd ... th-for-199

Edit: forgot to add "I wonder if it's possible that AMD is doing something special with the APU, like adding a RX 480..."

It would certainly be more plausible than using one of the (rather power hungry) earlier AMD designs; but the RX 480's specced power draw(150w) is still a bit more than the entire PS4(maxes out in the 130w range according to various tests), so Sony might have to bulk the system up a bit for cooling purposes.

 

[cogadh]

Oh, I get it now. They are trying to do with consoles what they already do with audio equipment. You've got your base model, which sounds/plays well enough, but if you want to get the best sound/gaming quality, here's this higher end model. Of course that higher end model is only worth it if you've got the right amplifier and speakers/4K TV to handle the higher quality output, so let me sell you this very expensive amplifier/4K TV as well.

It could work, if they never expect software to advance beyond the hardware, but gaming is not like music. I can take a CD from today and play it on a player from 15 years ago, or a 15 year old CD on a player bought today. You can't say that about console games, so unless they plan on mandating some kind of backwards compatibility (which the original rumor said they would), I don't see how they can maintain this in the long term.

 

[PuiuCS]

Statistical[/url]":3djq0j2g]

games that would largely work on both consoles

Well that is a little alarming. I thought the original goal was universal game support. It sounds like Sony won't contractually obligate game companies to ensure dual support.

They are making all future games support both versions, but games that have already been released need a patch. Sony can't do anything if a dev is very slow or out of business. In general you should expect all big games and the majority of the smaller ones to work with the Neo at launch or within a few months.
In my personal opinion i think we will see over 90% of the games work by fall 2017. Unlike Xbox Scorpio the PS4 Neo should be fairly easy to support if the devs are lazy and don't improve the graphics (although they need to make the games run in native 1080p).

 

[ScifiGeek]

Both in production together for the full life of the product.

Morons.

PS4 is about due for a die shrink, cost reduction anyway. At some point they should just have this replace the original. Maybe have a one year overlap where you charge a premium, but after that it's price should drop and the original ended.

This is really messy.

 

[Akemi]

The new "high-end" system will reportedly support "ultra-high definition 4K resolution," but it's unclear if this target is meant for games or merely for non-interactive video content.

If they were about to release something that could natively render games at 4K (not just render at 1080p and then upscale), Sony would have been crowing about it from the rooftops already.

 

[ScifiGeek]

haar[/url]":3tm5ce6w]

Zak[/url]":3tm5ce6w]So this will have GTX1080 in it? Maybe two? Because no other card can really push 4k comfortably. Even 1080 is not a real 4k part yet.

4k gaming is just a useless buzzword at this time.

WHAT?

OVERWATCH on a GTX980, can be played at 4K at 60fps on ultimate settings. (Default)

GTAV can be played at 4K on very-high, shadows softer... at 60Fps on a gtx980SLI (a gtx1080 is effectively a SLI gtx980)

As long as you do not select higher "no-real-difference" settings in game, a gtx980 can play 4K "under protest"

..............

Well, it is a wait and see thing for what the PS4K "brings to the table"... Because 4K bluray will not sell consoles at 100 or more dollars over a PS4.

If it has a M.2 or SSD slot for a caching drive, in addition to the standard drive slot, it will be a sale for me.
(If the PS4K has a white Destiny "iron king" special edition, it will be a sale for me)

Blizzard tends to use less detailed models/textures/effects because they aim for low end hardware.

So not really state of the art for visuals.

 

[glarfsquared]

Zak[/url]":17wleibz]So this will have GTX1080 in it? Maybe two? Because no other card can really push 4k comfortably. Even 1080 is not a real 4k part yet.

4k gaming is just a useless buzzword at this time.

It isn't meant for 4K gaming, which as you rightly note would take horsepower that would cost several times the current gen consoles, but 4K media, which is not currently supported.

 

[Deckard75]

ElectricBlue[/url]":w8h2gfwh]Sony has really bungled the messaging on Neo, this whole episode got me back into PC Gaming and I'm not terribly interested in iterative closed platforms going forward as it ends the last advantage consoles had left. I decided to keep my PS4 around for big exclusives but after playing Witcher 3 at 120 FPS I'm never going back for anything else.

I agree. I think this xbox one will be my last console. It just seems that Sony and Microsoft have their heads in the clouds when it comes to the long term life cycle of a console. I think I will be going back to the PC after 3 generations of console gaming. Can't wait to get back into the mod community.