error404":1kq7i6fv said:
The fact that the disks are inexpensive is completely irrelevant to the technology, which is why I prefer the 'independent' variant.
Only RAID1 is (somewhat) independent; all the other types are clusters of disks that all rely on one another. The disks are meaningless on their own.
What do you call a RAID of expensive disks?
A RAID. At higher capacities, it will always be cheaper to gang together N devices of X capacity than to buy a single device of N*X capacity and speed. RAID devices are almost always far cheaper than an equivalent single-drive alternative.
Down in the super low end of the market, the mechanisms cost so much that the price stops moving downward. You just can't get it below a certain point, so if you were to buy a bunch of the absolute cheapest disks you could find, you might be able to do better in terms of bytes/dollar by buying a single midrange drive instead. So RAID doesn't make sense there in terms of storage size for money spent. But even this slightly odd case, the array is going to be a
lot faster than the single mechanism. You'd have to spend a LOT more money to match the transfer rate you'd get off an array of the slowest and cheapest IDE drives you could find. Even in that segment, RAID remains inexpensive in terms of price/performance, even though price/storage kind of breaks down due to the physical minimum price for hard drives.
And, in the much more normal case, that of ganging up a bunch of midrange or high-end drives, the resulting RAID volume is
vastly cheaper and faster than any single unit. This is such a powerful effect that they don't even make super high-end magnetic drives anymore, because nobody would buy them.
RAID has been so successful, in other words, that there are really only Inexpensive disks left. You just don't see $50,000 drives anymore. If you buy a $50K storage unit, it will have a bunch of inexpensive disks in it -- inexpensive, again, compared to the alternative. Even if they cost $1K each, that's still a tiny fraction of what it would cost to buy a single drive that was as fast and large as the whole array.
I will grant that the initial impetus for the development and research of RAID was the increasing cost of high-capacity disks, however I don't agree that it's why the technology has stuck around. Today's RAID is typically used with expensive, low-capacity and high performance disks to achieve performance and redundancy.
Again, unless you're at the absolute bottom of the market, ganging together N drives, even pricey ones, is a bargain compared to what a single unit of similar performance and capacity would cost you. RAID lets you take advantage of the miracle of mass production, using the same drives that smaller outfits are using, instead of needing bespoke storage solutions.
Some users do use the cheap, PC-oriented disks spoken of the original literature, but I think this is the exception, not the rule, and certainly hasn't been the primary selling point in most settings for at least a decade.
Dude, RAID is
everywhere with cheap IDE-class disks. Again, that's the whole point to having it -- you can use inexpensive, relatively unreliable storage, and avoid downtime from your penury. These aren't big-dollar installations, that being the entire point, and because of that, they don't command very much attention, but they are freaking ubiquitous, especially on Linux.
Yes, they do also use RAID with pricey drives, but they do this because it brings high performance and high capacity into financial reach.... ie, it makes ridiculous amounts of storage at ridiculous speeds very Inexpensive, compared to any other alternative. Being able to buy 5 300-gig SSDs is vastly cheaper than a custom 1500-gig SSD would be, because you can buy the same hardware that everyone else is using. You just gang them up together to make the storage size you need; other people or companies buy fewer (or even singles) and make smaller volumes. But you're all buying similar drives, so the drive manufacturers can scale. It's the miracle of mass production of Inexpensive Disks.
If RAID0's inclusion in the term RAID is wrong (which I'd agree with), then RAID0 can't be an argument against 'independent' as it was used in the article.
True, but of all the forms of RAID, only RAID1 could actually be considered independent. You cannot take a single disk out of any other RAID type and get any kind of useful data off it... pull a singleton drive, and it's garbage. For the great majority of installations, you will need a large fraction of the total number of disks to extract usable data -- all-but-one for RAID5, all-but-two for RAID 6, and at least half for RAID 10.
Anyway, in the context of a 'Redundant Array of Independent Disks' I don't see the problem anyway. The disks are independent; they fail independently and have independent interfaces and storage, and they are what we have an array of.
They aren't independent, they're
interdependent. You can only recover when Disk 1 fails if enough other disks survive. And arrays don't usually don't have truly independent interfaces, unless it's a very expensive setup -- the vast majority of RAIDs run through one hardware controller or motherboard. And, as discussed, for everything but RAID1, they're not independent storage either, because the disks are garbage data by themselves.
Anyway, I think either term is acceptable, just didn't think the forcefulness was appropriate given that both are generally accepted and 'inexpensive' in the context of modern RAID doesn't make sense.
In my view, it's only because RAID has had such a gigantic impact on the upper echelons of the drive market, making it so Inexpensive, that you can really seriously think that Independent is a better word choice. And it's had an equally large impact in the cheaper seats, too, if only because the technologies trickle down from the enterprise to the common folks.
The initial paper seems to have been the 1988 paper by Patterson, Gibson and Katz, using the inexpensive term. Independent appeared in the literature only a few years later in the early 1990s.
Well, they were wrong too. I didn't realize that the misnomer went back that far, though. I thought you were just backing up a misunderstanding, rather than echoing things people had actually been saying for real. So I owe you an apology for that much... I was a little more aggressive than I should have been, because I thought the idea originated with you. I'm sorry for being too harsh. I spoke more strongly than I should have. I seem to have come down with a case of Someone Is Wrong On The Internet, which I suppose is worthy of a scolding.
That said, even back in the beginning, the disks were not independent in the great, great majority of installations. Only RAID1 qualifies in that sense, and that's far too narrow a slice of the overall market to be the definition of the term.
Inexpensive always works, anywhere from the bleeding edge down to the cheap seats, because it's usually cheap compared to any possible alternative storage solution. Midrange or higher, I think it's probably ALWAYS cheaper, but the absolute bottom of the market kind of screws that up a little.
Independent, however, only applies to a very limited subset of the solution space.