Review: Intel’s Broadwell mini PC is a next-generation Ultrabook in a box

This showcase for Intel's technology is also a pretty slick desktop computer.

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[Shuffy]

I want a NUC to tinker with, but the cost of getting an entire system up and going is too much to bite. I really don't care for PCIe storage when I have several spare drives I'd rather put to use instead.

 

[M-S-G]

Why would you spend 2x $ for PCIe SSD in a low performance setup like this?
Is there any benefit in a low-end environment like this one?

 

[HonestAbe]

If the price declines to the cost of a bare bones celeron desktop they might sell a few of them.

 

[Coriolanus]

The product I'm really waiting for is the Intel Compute Stick. $150 dollar computer system in an HDMI form factor and it comes with Windows 8.1 or Linux? Yes, please.

 

[thomsirveaux]

M-S-G[/url]":3cnzkwxp]Why would you spend 2x $ for PCIe SSD in a low performance setup like this?
Is there any benefit in a low-end environment like this one?

You do get quantifiably faster copy and loading speeds and things, though you're still going to have bottlenecks depending on where you're copying stuff from/to.

The implications are more interesting for higher-end systems, probably - I bet we'll see more desktop motherboards with M.2 connectors, and the 9-series chipsets are much more reliable about booting from M.2 cards mounted to PCIe cards.

 

[longhairedboy]

kinda wish it had dual ethernet ports. It would make a hell of a router. I can already think of a million other uses for this thing, though.

 

[ElectricBlue]

Looks like these small form factor PCs have finally surpassed my 2009 laptop in all categories. I'm seriously considering turning one of these into a SteamPC/Media box for my TV. I know it won't be able to play Witcher 3 the way i'd want but I have a PS4 for those kind of games.

 

[Akemi]

M-S-G[/url]":2y0szjt9]Why would you spend 2x $ for PCIe SSD in a low performance setup like this?
Is there any benefit in a low-end environment like this one?

There's always a benefit to having an SSD over a traditional HDD. My mom's old laptop (purchased in 2006 - 1.66 GHz Core 2 Duo, 4GB RAM, and integrated Intel video) performs substantially better since I swapped her old HDD for a nice SSD.

Boot times are near instant, there's no pausing during page file usage, and of course read/write times are substantially improved. The biggest bottleneck in computers is the HDD.

 

[thomsirveaux]

Akemi[/url]":1jaocpnt]

M-S-G[/url]":1jaocpnt]Why would you spend 2x $ for PCIe SSD in a low performance setup like this?
Is there any benefit in a low-end environment like this one?

There's always a benefit to having an SSD over a traditional HDD. My mom's old laptop (purchased in 2006 - 1.66 GHz Core 2 Duo, 4GB RAM, and integrated Intel video) performs substantially better since I swapped her old HDD for a nice SSD.

Boot times are near instant, there's no pausing during page file usage, and of course read/write times are substantially improved. The biggest bottleneck in computers is the HDD.

I think M-S-G was comparing PCIe SSDs to (somewhat slower, much cheaper) SATA SSDs, which you can also put in this thing.

 

[grommit!]

Any chance of a video or audio recording under load? Especially if you have the Brix or Haswell NUC for comparison purposes?

 

[cale leaf]

I'd strongly consider one, but even more strongly if it supported external graphics. I'm considering a gaming rig but the space, power and expense are excessive for casual use these days (and come on guys, I haven't needed a desktop for the majority of computing tasks for years). Most modern games seem pretty heavily GPU-bound, so something that could turn from small efficient HTPC/NAS server/etc into something useful for games at the flick of a switch would be... pretty nice.

 

[Myth]

The only thing that this NUCs lack is a Dual Ethernet (Intel, not Realtek). Seriously, with Bay Trail + Dual Ethernet, you can make a pretty slick firewall/gateway/htpc. USB -> Ethernet is not the same thing. It's harder to configure and driver support is pretty bad for Linux/Unix/FreeBSD.

 

[operagost]

"There's a lot to unpack, starting with the fact that there's no such thing as "an M.2 connector" or "an M.2 card."

The next line:

"Above are four M.2 cards."

 

[JustQuestions]

thomsirveaux[/url]":qjs0hao0]

M-S-G[/url]":qjs0hao0]Why would you spend 2x $ for PCIe SSD in a low performance setup like this?
Is there any benefit in a low-end environment like this one?

You do get quantifiably faster copy and loading speeds and things, though you're still going to have bottlenecks depending on where you're copying stuff from/to.

The implications are more interesting for higher-end systems, probably - I bet we'll see more desktop motherboards with M.2 connectors, and the 9-series chipsets are much more reliable about booting from M.2 cards mounted to PCIe cards.

Yeah I think his point was just the price point wasn't all that sensible for what you get.

With motherboard support for bootable M.2 slots ~6 months away (or so), is it really worth it to pay $400 for a PCI-E 256GB SSD?

The solution you linked (the pci-e card/m.2 adapter) is a pretty damn strong option right now -- assuming it's bootable. And still, much much cheaper than what Intel is asking for their 256gb PCIe option.

You can get the Samsung XP941 256gb for ~$260 or so, and the adapter you linked is <$30.

 

[M-S-G]

thomsirveaux[/url]":32mesu52]

Akemi[/url]":32mesu52]

M-S-G[/url]":32mesu52]Why would you spend 2x $ for PCIe SSD in a low performance setup like this?
Is there any benefit in a low-end environment like this one?

There's always a benefit to having an SSD over a traditional HDD. My mom's old laptop (purchased in 2006 - 1.66 GHz Core 2 Duo, 4GB RAM, and integrated Intel video) performs substantially better since I swapped her old HDD for a nice SSD.

Boot times are near instant, there's no pausing during page file usage, and of course read/write times are substantially improved. The biggest bottleneck in computers is the HDD.

I think M-S-G was comparing PCIe SSDs to (somewhat slower, much cheaper) SATA SSDs, which you can also put in this thing.

I was. I remeber DROOLING over this thing not that long ago.

Now the whole PC is smaller than the addin card.

 

[adipose]

So, I am just being lazy, but does anyone know if my SSD card for my gen1 NUC is compatible with these slots?

 

[Papageno]

Now if I could only fit a GTX 970 in this thing...

 

[thomsirveaux]

operagost[/url]":7hv9evfs]"There's a lot to unpack, starting with the fact that there's no such thing as "an M.2 connector" or "an M.2 card."

The next line:

"Above are four M.2 cards."

"An" is singular, "cards" is plural. If you just say "this laptop takes an M.2 card" you've conveyed about a third of the information you actually need to have.

adipose[/url]":7hv9evfs]So, I am just being lazy, but does anyone know if my SSD card for my gen1 NUC is compatible with these slots?

Nope. mSATA cards won't fit.

 

[EtrnL_Frost]

"the NUC scratches an itch for a certain type of lapsed desktop builder, the type that used to build more towers but has since (by preference or necessity) moved to more tightly integrated systems." Nail on the head, sir. That's exactly the case in my own household, having replaced the HTPC and the gaming PC w/ two Brix Pros last year, and couldn't be more pleased.
Aesthetically more pleasing by far, than having towers in a relatively crowded home theatre set up and office. Added bonus - the baby doesn't notice the SFF PC as much as the relatively giant micro-ATX towe chassis I was using (Antec Aria and mini P180).

Been eyeballing the Brix Gaming, but I can't bring myself to do it. Yet?

 

[EtrnL_Frost]

PapagenoF[/url]":189ye0gt]Now if I could only fit a GTX 970 in this thing...

Well, it's not a 970 (or even an advertised 760, I think the chipset is actually an 850?), but ... it's not impossible to get something a little bit closer than not...

http://www.gigabyte.com/products/produc ... id=5156#ov

 

[JustQuestions]

I'd actually be curious to know what these things weigh (with a single SSD).

thomsirveaux[/url]":2ga9yn4u]"An" is singular, "cards" is plural.

So...It was a grammatical joke? Kind of like saying, "there is no such thing as an PCIe card?"

 

[torp]

The power brick is almost as large as the PC now
Somewhere, a horror movie about power bricks is waiting to be made...

 

[EtrnL_Frost]

ElectricBlue[/url]":twfotjy5]Looks like these small form factor PCs have finally surpassed my 2009 laptop in all categories. I'm seriously considering turning one of these into a SteamPC/Media box for my TV. I know it won't be able to play Witcher 3 the way i'd want but I have a PS4 for those kind of games.

You might be surprised what the Intel based GPU chip can actually accomplish at 1080. Steam games that I've played on my setup (the I7-4770R w/ 8GB RAM on the HTPC) are equal to or surpass image quality vs PS4 / Xbox360. In general. Also, higher FPS's, in general.

I do think that the consoles tend to handle shadows a bit better, though. Tough call on that front.

EDIT: the Intel chip referenced uses Iris Pro 5200 w/ the extra cache. I'm betting that some of the NUC-alikes, such as the Brix Gaming I mentioned above, perform demonstrably better. In practice, the Iris Pro seems about level with ... GTX 460/260/840? Something like that. Except it doesn't handle AA and shadows as well.

 

[marsilies]

M-S-G[/url]":1v1myoe3]Why would you spend 2x $ for PCIe SSD in a low performance setup like this?
Is there any benefit in a low-end environment like this one?

I'm thinking size is the main factor for using an M.2 drive in this model. The article mentions that the motherboard has a SATA port on it for using a more standard 2.5" drive in a larger enclosure.

 

[sporkinum]

It's cool tech, but would take an awful long time to pay off the difference in price replacing an old tower, with lower power consumption the nuc has. Also, I think you can get a laptop with similar specs for close to the same price, with the added ability to go portable.

 

[aikouka]

My Haswell NUC has some issues with its HDMI connection, and I was wondering if these issues persist in the Broadwell NUC. The first issue is that the HDMI connection won't re-establish the audio output sometimes when turning the TV and receiver back on. The second issue is that when an HDMI-connected monitor is turned off, the screen is blacked out. This causes a problem if you want to use any remote access software (e.g VNC, Splashtop, TeamViewer, etc.). The NUC can be a good, full-fledged HTPC, but these issues are troublesome for me.

 

[adipose]

thomsirveaux[/url]":252um3qx]

operagost[/url]":252um3qx]"There's a lot to unpack, starting with the fact that there's no such thing as "an M.2 connector" or "an M.2 card."

The next line:

"Above are four M.2 cards."

"An" is singular, "cards" is plural. If you just say "this laptop takes an M.2 card" you've conveyed about a third of the information you actually need to have.

adipose[/url]":252um3qx]So, I am just being lazy, but does anyone know if my SSD card for my gen1 NUC is compatible with these slots?

Nope. mSATA cards won't fit.

Darn. Now I need to figure out how to clone from mSATA to m.2. USB to mSATA adapter would do, I guess.

 

[Ars of Ares]

More can be had for less, so long as space isn't an issue. Pass.

 

[DyDx]

JustQuestions[/url]":2mw589sc]I'd actually be curious to know what these things weigh (with a single SSD).

thomsirveaux[/url]":2mw589sc]"An" is singular, "cards" is plural.

So...It was a grammatical joke? Kind of like saying, "there is no such thing as an PCIe card?"

No, Andrew is saying that there's no such thing as "an" M.2 card, but there is such a thing as an A-keyed M.2 card, an M-keyed M.2 card, etc. Referring to "an M.2 card" is meaningless without the key information because there is no singular "M.2 card" but rather a variety of them. I don't think it was meant as a joke, though it's understandably a little unclear.

 

[SheldonRoss]

I've been replacing mini-ITX workstations at work with these. It's great for getting machines spec'd (very close at least) to how you want them without having to build a fullsize (ITX seems fullsize now comparatively) desktop. More than enough power for our processing and customer service staff.

 

[JustQuestions]

DyDx[/url]":38hb6jd3]

JustQuestions[/url]":38hb6jd3]I'd actually be curious to know what these things weigh (with a single SSD).

thomsirveaux[/url]":38hb6jd3]"An" is singular, "cards" is plural.

So...It was a grammatical joke? Kind of like saying, "there is no such thing as an PCIe card?"

No, Andrew is saying that there's no such thing as "an" M.2 card, but there is such a thing as an A-keyed M.2 card, an M-keyed M.2 card, etc. Referring to "an M.2 card" is meaningless without the key information because there is no singular "M.2 card" but rather a variety of them. I don't think it was meant as a joke, though it's understandably a little unclear.

Thanks for that, although I'm more interested in what the box weighs than discussing grammar.

Also, you could say the same about PCIe since there is x1, x2, x4, x16

 

[ChrisSD]

How does the Intel HD Graphics 6000 compare with something like the GTX 750 Ti? I'm wondering if the use case for the 750 is going to become very narrow as more efficient integrated graphics get more powerful.

 

[iamwyza]

Leaving aside the question of whether anyone still has honest-to-goodness LAN parties in the year 2015

I will say that not only are Honest to goodness lan parties alive in 2015, but they are growing. One of the longest living lan parties around (Lanwar.com) has been functioning for almost 18 years. While we haven't grown back to the 2000 days yet, the last few years we've seen a year over year increase in attendance with over 300 at our 2.5 day January event. Based on this increase we are expecting 400 for the 4 day event this Summer.

We are also seeing alot of smaller lans starting to grow in the midwest as well.

 

[thomsirveaux]

JustQuestions[/url]":1ugyyyqz]

DyDx[/url]":1ugyyyqz]

JustQuestions[/url]":1ugyyyqz]I'd actually be curious to know what these things weigh (with a single SSD).

thomsirveaux[/url]":1ugyyyqz]"An" is singular, "cards" is plural.

So...It was a grammatical joke? Kind of like saying, "there is no such thing as an PCIe card?"

No, Andrew is saying that there's no such thing as "an" M.2 card, but there is such a thing as an A-keyed M.2 card, an M-keyed M.2 card, etc. Referring to "an M.2 card" is meaningless without the key information because there is no singular "M.2 card" but rather a variety of them. I don't think it was meant as a joke, though it's understandably a little unclear.

Thanks for that, although I'm more interested in what the box weighs than discussing grammar.

Also, you could say the same about PCIe since there is x1, x2, x4, x16

My kitchen scale says 16.35oz/463g for a system with both RAM slots filled and an M.2 2280 SSD in it.

 

[senan79]

ChrisSD[/url]":if1h7cem]How does the Intel HD Graphics 6000 compare with something like the GTX 750 Ti? I'm wondering if the use case for the 750 is going to become very narrow as more efficient integrated graphics get more powerful.

Hi My i5 Haswell NUC gives me solid 30 FPS @ 1360x768 at medium settings of Skyrim. At high settings sometimes dips to less than 20.

The mini-ITX box with Geforce 750Ti runs at 60FPS @ 1360x768 at Ultra. Both of the installations are heavily modded and running on Windows 10 Preview.

I am playing with the NUC more since it heats up the room less.

 

[nehinks]

I didn't realize the 5200 was that much better than the others - impressive. Stick that 6200 with integrated eDRAM in, and I'm sold. I know you mentioned the chip was coming at some point - was there any mention of whether it might be available in one of these?

 

[Peevester]

I've been pointing people (who don't game siginficantly) to mac minis for a while - this unit is more or less feature-identical and price-identical to a midrange mac mini. Plus, the mac mini doesn't have a power brick.

On the other hand, the "lid" concept is pretty nifty. If that catches on, I may have to reconsider and recommend one of these, especially for people who immediately install windows on their minis and never boot back into OSX (the wretches).

 

[thomsirveaux]

nehinks[/url]":2la7p5kq]I didn't realize the 5200 was that much better than the others - impressive. Stick that 6200 with integrated eDRAM in, and I'm sold. I know you mentioned the chip was coming at some point - was there any mention of whether it might be available in one of these?

Intel doesn't have plans that I know of - there's an Iris 6100 model coming with a Core i7 but there's still no eDRAM in there. You might see one from a third-party OEM like Gigabyte, who released the box with the 5200 in it last year.

 

[psarhjinian]

I really wish these supported eSATA natively.

It would be nice to buy one of these and couple it to a SATA JBOD chassis, either as a NAS or as a workstation where the disk could be stashed away and off the desk.