Researchers hone in on headache-causing compounds in red wine
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Andrew Waterhouse, and Enologist, that's an amusing name ^^' (Not really apt, kind of the opposite)
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I must have "very efficient" ALDH, then; because I drink buckets of red wine, and never get headaches.
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Well, Amy had a better name for this line of work but kept it as a hobby. /s
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All antidotal of course. My wife always had issues with red. She drank red wine up and down Italy with zero issues. Commercially and family produced.
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I suspect that, like most biological processes, the ADLH inhibition is only a single part of the question; I'd be interested in seeing if there's a way to run an experiment with a few large populations: one with reduced ALDH efficiency (seen in some ethnic groups), one with a middle ground effectiveness (unaffected ethnic groups), a control, and a cohort of heavy drinkers or straight up alcoholics.
The most aggravating part about studying processes like this, is the hideous complexity and interconnectivity of every single system in our body. I don't know how biologists have the patience!
The most aggravating part about studying processes like this, is the hideous complexity and interconnectivity of every single system in our body. I don't know how biologists have the patience!
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I stopped drinking 8 years ago because alcohol seems to increase depression and anxiety, and it also seems to inhibit judgement and logical reasoning, and not just in the short term. I believe it takes about 2 months after quitting alcohol to notice a change, because I believe this is about how long it takes for new neurons to grow and mature in the hippocampus, although I can't find a citation for that.
Moderate drinking? Alcohol consumption significantly decreases neurogenesis in the adult hippocampus
Moderate drinking? Alcohol consumption significantly decreases neurogenesis in the adult hippocampus
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normally butters
Ars Praefectus
Really?
Part of my limited understanding of the wine industry is that wine grapes from cooler, less sunny terroir (Bordeaux, Napa, etc.) are prized for their flavor achieved through slower growth but have lower yields, with both factors conspiring to make those wines more expensive. While your Two Buck Chuck is made with wine grapes from the California Central Valley, where it's warm and sunny and they get a higher yield of less-celebrated grapes.
This article suggests the opposite.
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biffbobfred
Ars Scholae Palatinae
The “Asians get all red faced” is essentially this. A big chunk of the population doesn’t have the enzyme that processes acetaldehyde. My wife has this - she can drink maybe half a drink of anything. Her uncle is a hard drinker tho. It’s not universal
There’s a drug for alcoholics called Antabuse, that suppresses that enzyme. Sadly my uncle was an alcoholic, he was on Antabuse. It made you so sick that for many your body would just instinctively shun alcohol. They told him “if you reallllly feel like you need to drink stop the Antabuse a day or so before - because the acetaldehyde might kill you”
There’s a drug for alcoholics called Antabuse, that suppresses that enzyme. Sadly my uncle was an alcoholic, he was on Antabuse. It made you so sick that for many your body would just instinctively shun alcohol. They told him “if you reallllly feel like you need to drink stop the Antabuse a day or so before - because the acetaldehyde might kill you”
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biffbobfred
Ars Scholae Palatinae
Mid 20s actually. It keeps pretty strong growth until mid twenties and slower but non-zero growth after.
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This makes a lot of sense. It would be a classic case (very Classical being 10,000 years old) of a drug-drug interaction. Normally they involve Cyp enzymes but ALDH, like Cyps is an enzyme which oxidizes unwanted ingredients of our food. Quercetin is also a good inhibitor of several Cyps, and has been implicated in several clinically important drug-drug interactions, Furthermore, since one can achieve the same acetaldehyde levels by consuming more alcohol, and overloading the enzyme, it would simply change the threshold at which the headache occurs, so for hangovers it does not let alcohol consumption off the hook.
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biffbobfred
Ars Scholae Palatinae
I stopped about a year ago, maybe closing in on 2. Just too much of a hit for not a lot of benefit. Wasn’t an alcoholic. Didn’t drink to excess. Just didn’t serve me. Congrats on clean living.
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I like how they put 'moderate' [drinking] in quotes and not 'binge'.
That said, their test rats were running an average blood concentration of 0.08% over the two weeks of an experiment, which would be fairly hard core for a human and would be hard to achieve with anything most people would call moderate.
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I was taught that in high school in the '80s, but when I was in college in the '90s there were plenty of articles suggesting it was untrue.
When I think about it, the only place I heard it in the '80s was in the anti-drug propaganda we heard fromlaw enforcement or posted on the walls in school. (And some of those posters were laughably bad--I remember a "How to spot an amphetamine addict" poster that had a long list of symptoms you could easily spot in anyone who had one too many cups of coffee.)
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I find this interesting because I'm more likely to get headaches after drinking cheap wine than the midprice wine I usually buy. For example the two buck Chuck style wine at Trader Joe's taste OK but gives me a crazy headache. The local Washington state wines that I normally buy for $15-$25 per bottle do not give me a headache. Maybe those are considered cheap? I don't know.
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ubercurmudgeon
Ars Tribunus Militum
Has anyone tested the fluid that leaked out of Rudy Giuliani's head that time? It could be the rosetta stone to this little mystery.
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There was a widely used medical/science book, from many years ago, that made the unfounded claim that the neurons you had at a certain (young) age were the only ones you'd ever have, and so that claim was assumed to be fact because some combination of appeal to authority/old wives tale.
More recent work in the field has shown that neurons continue to be made by the body through a person's entire lifetime.
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Hmm, why do white wines give me more of a hangover then? Maybe I've not controlled for other factors.
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There was an extensive Ars Technical article about hangover cures posted some years back citing European research that pointed teh finger at trace amounts of methanol that perhaps traumatized the brain, as the only effective cure to hangovers is a good does of an anti-inflammatory...
So, good wine making has less trace methanol that leads to less hangover.
So, good wine making has less trace methanol that leads to less hangover.
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My biochem prof pointed to acetaldehyde as the culprit in hangovers. That was 1977.
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Yah, my wife had similar experience with "old world" versus "new world" wine. She had zero issues with red or white in the two weeks we were in Tuscany and Sorrento. Back in the US, she experienced issues with domestic wines.
All wine has additives, it has to in order to remain wine and not turn into vinegar and not smell like a locker room. These additives can be as innocuous as oak chips, but can also include stuff like Acetaldehyde, Polyphenol, Polyvinylpolypyrrolidone, various acids, carbonates and sugars. Mass-production wineries are getting grapes from all over the place, and need a lot of manipulation to get you that consistent bottle "California Cosast" Cab or Zinfandel we expect. It's the McDonald's effect - the reason you a McDo's cheesburger tastes the same in New York or Denver is the highly processed nature of the food. Not judging, but it is what it is.
We've switched to mostly European wines and things seem better. You can also look for "organic" wines, although that designation seems to continue to decline in utility. Don't choose based upon how cool the label is lol.
I think it also hits some people worse than others. I tend not to get bad wine headaches unless I mix with something else, but I also don't drink nearly as much wine as I used to.
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I'm not an expert, but I think the issue is direct sunlight exposure on the grapes themselves versus sun exposure on the grapevines. In cooler regions it is common to prune back the leaf cover to increase sun exposure on the grapes to help prevent mold before harvest (also affects flavor profile I'm sure), so you get more sunlight impinging on the grape clusters. Those hot high-yield Central Valley vineyards have the opposite issue - no real chance of mold since it doesn't usually start to get wet/foggy until after harvest, and exposing the grapes to direct sunlight would burn and/or desiccate them (turn them into raisins), so more leaves are left in place to shade the grapes. Pruning is also labor intensive and therefore expensive, so lower margin/higher volume operations are less likely to invest in additional pruning if they can avoid it.
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Very interesting article. Not relevant to me as I hate the tase of alcohol in anything and in any concentration. It is an acquired taste I am happy to have not acquired.
But interesting biology/medicine in any case.
But interesting biology/medicine in any case.
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Reminds me of this onion article: https://theonion.com/man-blames-hangover-on-everything-but-how-much-he-drank-1819566447/
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The human body is an amazing device, indeed. I noticed the first chart on the chemistry of alcohol in the body appears not to be referenced in any way in the text of the article, and waaaay down in the lower corner it suggests a tie to the immune system. Having spent many years in close personal study of this phenomenon, I formed a less-then-scientific conclusion that a hangover is simply the body's blunt way of saying "Do less of that, please."
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RickRoyLeonPrisZhoraRacha
Ars Scholae Palatinae
Odd. My own personal study found that I react better with dry reds like Chianti or even a Malbec. The whites tend to cause headaches, along with the blushes like Rose. However, its quality that matters, not quantity. Excess of two glasses (total 750ml) will result in poor decision making and unflattering proposals to strangers.
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Wow! I take quercetin as an anti-inflammatory.
Crud! Now I need to remember to avoid the red wine!! And, I hate white wine.
Oh well, guess I will write the news off to it being a Monday.
Crud! Now I need to remember to avoid the red wine!! And, I hate white wine.
Oh well, guess I will write the news off to it being a Monday.
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