Razer sold bogus “N95” mask for $100 in 2021—users finally get refunds
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They should have just put a K in front of N95 like every other company. The lawsuit is because Razer will actually pay up, and the billions made by Chinese companies selling KN95 masks that are entirely untested to nearly every single person in the US will go unpunished... Because actual N95 masks were pretty much sold out indefinitely during the shutdowns.
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Well despite there being a huge market for very comfortable PPE (like ya know, entire industries) the problem is that all those solutions are by people who have been working for 3M and studying filtration for decades.
What you need is a company that has ZERO competency in the area but is rich in delusion and thinks they can succeed where entire century long human effort probably worth collectively a quadrillion dollars has "failed", all because "they're smarter." And why are they smarter? Because they're gamers who grew up as "the kid who is good with computers." It isn't JUST marketing BS. They really do think they're fundamentally a cut above the rest.
Surely once such geniuses come along your problem will be solved!
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I'm pretty sure the FDA doesn't have a clear jurisdiction in this case. The FDA doesn't really "approve" medical devices as such, they just register them which is a kinda rubber stamp thing.
You're quite literally comparing apples and grapefruits here.
I'm not going to be fair here, purposely so. People have a right not to be swindled, and companies have a responsibility not to act criminally. That said, no one that has two brain cells left should have been duped by Razer, a computer peripherals maker of somewhat dubious quality (from experience), making a medical grade filtration device that was clearly going for looks rather than function. That's classic Razer. Come on folks, stop thinking with your joystick and consider the source! They have no reputation in the medical field at all while their primary product line is all about bling and no substance or longevity!
You don't come up with an filtration device out of thin air with hard plastic, LEDs, a rubber band, and a few generic filters. Durable respirators are a lot more nuanced than that.
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There are a number of military and industrial PAPR systems that use a fan to force air through the filters. You will need to pay a substantial sum and consult someone knowledgeable but they are out there
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This tech bro attitude just drives me nuts. Reminds me of Musk's attempt to "solve" the problem of getting those kids out of the cave. Then being surprised what people with absolutely no subject matter experience weren't able to create a useful solution to the problem in a few days.
Its just another nasty strain of the anti-intellectualism that runs rampant in the US.
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SubWoofer2
Ars Tribunus Militum
An interesting case study in leadership and C-Suite power and accountability.
The honcho is the Director of Global Public Relations and they can only "recommend"?!
WtF is the value of the job title and package?
The honcho is the Director of Global Public Relations and they can only "recommend"?!
WtF is the value of the job title and package?
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Have you ever been on a team and had the team make a decision you know is going to cause serious problems? It is not fun. Especially when you're the expert and everyone else isn't.
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Especially since they actually have the resources to pay for the research to test their dumb ideas against, or hire some product engineers or collaborate with an experienced manufacturer to accomplish something more useful (or maybe even an improvement).
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chaos215bar2
Ars Praefectus
This, 1000x over.
What will be the cost of having an entire generation grow up, knowing that they can't even trust their own government to ensure that really anything they buy, including medical devices, actually works as advertised?
I suspect we are only beginning to find out.
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The real question, though, is not "do masks work?", but "do masks make a difference?
...and the answer is, "Yes!"
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TIL Razer would have been better off selling POTATO WIPES lmfao xD
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This is an aside, but I was totally impressed with Musk at least trying to find a novel solution on that kind of time-frame. Until he went all douchebag about it. That was my turning point regarding Musk.
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Gotta give credit to the unnamed Razer executive actually saying, "Hey this seems misleading and unverified. Maybe we should back it up or remove the marketing?" They did the right thing. But I'll bet it made Razer's lawyers furious.
Within the corporate world putting into writing, "Hey this seems illegal, have we checked if it's legal or considered stopping?" is the type of thing that can get you fired even if you are correct. Because when those statements come out in discovery they're often the smoking gun the prosecution is looking for.
The sad reality of corporate culture is that the company would much rather nobody asks those critical questions, especially in non-privileged writing. So the overwhelming sentiment is to never discuss the legality of something because if it is illegal, just the discussion can be used against the company.
Within the corporate world putting into writing, "Hey this seems illegal, have we checked if it's legal or considered stopping?" is the type of thing that can get you fired even if you are correct. Because when those statements come out in discovery they're often the smoking gun the prosecution is looking for.
The sad reality of corporate culture is that the company would much rather nobody asks those critical questions, especially in non-privileged writing. So the overwhelming sentiment is to never discuss the legality of something because if it is illegal, just the discussion can be used against the company.
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Your pricing is way off. A very comfortable N-95 certified half-mask with replaceable filters is going to run $50 to $60 (e.g. Envo mask - which I've worn for 8+ hour shifts and highly recommend). A full-face respirator with impact resistant shield and the ability to accept all sorts of filter cartridges is still going to be less than $150 (I use the 3M 6800). Both have NIOSH certification. The NIOSH standard is not hard - but it does require testing with validation, and part of that test is the fit of the device.
You don't hit several hundred (let alone thousands) of dollars until you start getting into powered air purifying respirators or full self contained breathing apparatuses.
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The article isn't clear (or I missed it), but is this the same Razer that makes keyboards, mice, and so forth? Or is it a different company with the same name? I don't see any pointless hue-cycling LEDs on the mask.
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Pardon me, but I believe that either your ignorance or bigotry is showing. You might want to fix that.
The NIOSH N-95 standard is very similar to the Chinese KN-95 standard, but they differ slightly in the fit testing/requirements. OSHA/NIOSH certifications are granted by a national test lab and the laws require individual fit testing for employees who are required to use the masks because NIOSH doesn't perform leak testing. KN-95 masks follow a European style fit testing (e.g. similar to FFP# respirators) which does have an inward leakage test as part of the standard.
Is there room for discussion regarding whether fit testing at the manufacturing level versus individual level? Sure, the US and EU have been at odds for decades on that point. Is there room to talk about profiteering or an explosion of counterfeiting during a massive spike in global demand? Of course - but say that instead of making racial insinuations about quality. Are there important questions to ask about why China was able to ramp up production of their certified masks at a massive rate when the US was caught flat-footed? You bet!
Stating that KN-95 are masks not subject to testing is incredibly wrong. I can't even begin to count how many infographics were plastered everywhere about mask types, materials, test standards, certifications, etc… it was practically impossible to not learn about the differences. Stating something as incorrect as you did this soon after a global pandemic seems to indicate willful ignorance, racism, or some mixture of both. I'd suggest you check your sources, assumptions, and biases and see if there's an opportunity here to better yourself.
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Yes - per the link with the original Ars review article. Jon Brodkin was just polite enough to not subject us again to this product image from Razer:
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There's a 3M Versaflo PAPR on Amazon right now for $560, which is weirdly cheap, with most being in the $1200-1500 range. It's a whole system, with a comfortable mask, back-of-the-head hose placement, an included flow testing gauge, and 3M's reputation behind it.
There's a bunch of cheesy no-names that take old-school screw-on NATO gasmask canister filters, for $100-200. They have dubious batteries, reused masks from other purposes, front-of-chin hose placement, no testing, and they're sold under a suite of new keyboard-smash brands every week.
I really wish there was something in the middle. I'd love one that runs from Milwaukee batteries, since from 3M's accessory pricing sheet, the battery system seems to be a large part of their development cost. I can't imagine a reason that a PAPR should require different filter media than a 6000-series half-mask, it'll just need more filter changes because it's moving more air. The flow tester and masks should all be interchangeable.
An affordable-but-reputable PAPR would probably find a lot of buyers these days, but nobody's serving that market.
There's a bunch of cheesy no-names that take old-school screw-on NATO gasmask canister filters, for $100-200. They have dubious batteries, reused masks from other purposes, front-of-chin hose placement, no testing, and they're sold under a suite of new keyboard-smash brands every week.
I really wish there was something in the middle. I'd love one that runs from Milwaukee batteries, since from 3M's accessory pricing sheet, the battery system seems to be a large part of their development cost. I can't imagine a reason that a PAPR should require different filter media than a 6000-series half-mask, it'll just need more filter changes because it's moving more air. The flow tester and masks should all be interchangeable.
An affordable-but-reputable PAPR would probably find a lot of buyers these days, but nobody's serving that market.
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Although as I noted earlier, I'm sure it's just a giant coincidence that if you Google "Razer Director of Global Public Relations", you get a bunch of articles noting that they hired a new person in that position in February of 2024.
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I look at Razer's laptops every once in a while when I think about replacing my gaming laptop. That the FTC had to get involved to force refunds, while Razer jerked around both the FTC and their own customers, is the equivalent of a thousand 1-star yelp reviews. They now join Lenovo on the list of PC manufacturers from whom I will buy nothing.
I remember when this came out, I thought it looked cool. I might have even bought it, but it looked too heavy. If I had bought it, it would have gone in a closet and I never would have bothered getting a refund, but they shouldn't have lied to the FTC, nor their customers. (and yes, CS drones blindly saying that it's outside the 14 day return window is "lying", and so is saying that customers have been refunded when practically none of them have).
Razer's response should be something like "we understand that telling our customers they weren't eligible for refunds on this product is basically fraud, and we're really grateful that the FTC let us off with a slap on the wrist, instead of sending our C-suite to prison for felony wire fraud". Instead, of course, it will be outright denial.
I remember when this came out, I thought it looked cool. I might have even bought it, but it looked too heavy. If I had bought it, it would have gone in a closet and I never would have bothered getting a refund, but they shouldn't have lied to the FTC, nor their customers. (and yes, CS drones blindly saying that it's outside the 14 day return window is "lying", and so is saying that customers have been refunded when practically none of them have).
Razer's response should be something like "we understand that telling our customers they weren't eligible for refunds on this product is basically fraud, and we're really grateful that the FTC let us off with a slap on the wrist, instead of sending our C-suite to prison for felony wire fraud". Instead, of course, it will be outright denial.
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OK... having googled around, LG makes a powered mask similar to the Zephyr, and it seems to retail for closer to $300 -- the cleverly named "PuriCare Wearable Air Purifier". (Since "PuriCare" is the brand for their whole line of air filtration systems, that whole thing is the product name for the mask.)
Notably, LG does not claim N95 equivalence or any certification. They cite some internal testing of filter effectiveness and how much the mask leaks during normal activities. I'd imagine what that means is that it's nowhere near as good as a certified PAPR system, but it could still be way superior to much of what people were wearing during the pandemic. Plus, it means they're probably not blatantly lying.
They don't seem to carry it on the U.S. site, which may tell us something about how they feel about their marketing claims. Here's the page on the LG-Levant site: https://www.lg.com/levant_en/air-care/lg-ap551awfa
Notably, LG does not claim N95 equivalence or any certification. They cite some internal testing of filter effectiveness and how much the mask leaks during normal activities. I'd imagine what that means is that it's nowhere near as good as a certified PAPR system, but it could still be way superior to much of what people were wearing during the pandemic. Plus, it means they're probably not blatantly lying.
They don't seem to carry it on the U.S. site, which may tell us something about how they feel about their marketing claims. Here's the page on the LG-Levant site: https://www.lg.com/levant_en/air-care/lg-ap551awfa
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I toiled for 3 solid years face-to-face with floridly infected Covid patients (mainly intubating them then caring for them hands-on during surgery). My protection was the N95 mask. I did not become infected. This is anecdotal, of course, but I’d go with the simplest interpretation - that a well-fitted N95 fucking works during the inhalation phase too!
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Did you also have a plastic face shield, were wearing gloves and being careful not to touch your face with your hands?
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This reads more like capital-f Fraud rather than simply some misleading marketing.
C-suite folks should be in jail.
C-suite folks should be in jail.
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You may want to re-read the article. Razer claimed the masks were FDA-registered and tested for 99% filtration against bacteria. It therefore is a "medical device" (technically, a "surgical respirator") and therefor under the purview of both NIOSH and FDA. (see: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/N95_respirator#In_healthcare)
edit: TL;DR, I believe, is that all FDA approved N95s are also NIOSH approved, but not all NIOSH approved masks will be approved by the FDA.
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Starting June 2021, I was diagnosed with Hodgkin's, and underwent 6+ months of chemo. For the first 3 months, I had literally 0 immune system (by all measures of blood levels they judge such things. Month 4 they started me on Neulasta, which turbocharges your immune system to normal-ish). The KN-95 masks I bought from Amazon served me well enough (checked against the lists that they were legitimate).
Aside from the cancer/chemo side effects, I never caught Covid or anything else. While the cancer center at our local hospital was fairly isolated (but full of similar 0-immunity patients plus their caretakers), the main hospital campus in Nashville where I had to get imaging done every 2 weeks sure as hell wasn't. I likely would have been hospitalized had i caught even a cold, but made it through unscathed.
All to set myself up to say, add me to the 'anecdotal story' list backing up that masks did something for those of us that knew how to and wore them properly. That was during the height of the more virulent Omicron phase of the pandemic, iirc.
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Needing "perfect" PPE is somewhat misleading. Many studies do not factor in the reduction of viral load that is offered by even the improper use of PPE.
For medicine where you don't have a choice of whether you worked with COVID patients, yes, proper fit testing of your N95 and/or PAPR is critical.
For the average person just browsing the Ikea...a surgical mask or N95 is far better than nothing, especially since they're likely only passing an infected person very briefly.
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OK, that looks like a Razer product.Yes - per the link with the original Ars review article. Jon Brodkin was just polite enough to not subject us again to this product image from Razer:
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Bwahahaha…
You’re more likely to win the lottery than get convicted of fraud as a C-Suite exec. Even if you’ve actually committed fraud, that remains true.
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Why is there a time-limit to claim a refund?? Is Razer planning to go broke? I understand why large personal checks may not be valid indefinitely but these are, compared to the payer, very small checks. If Razer doubts their ability to pay a few months down the road, everybody should be nervous. (Maybe we should?)
For those who missed Wu's review:
View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nDzhGjbvVGc
Yes, Ms Wu is into extreme body style and dramatic poses. Part of why her government asked her to be much less outspoken. But she is also a very competent technical hacker and commenter.
For those who missed Wu's review:
View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nDzhGjbvVGc
Yes, Ms Wu is into extreme body style and dramatic poses. Part of why her government asked her to be much less outspoken. But she is also a very competent technical hacker and commenter.
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Jesus Christ I can't believe we're still having to argue even the most obvious nuances of this.
People really do have goldfish brains - which is why of course we will have another pandemic again.
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FSTargetDrone
Ars Scholae Palatinae
Dissolve the company and sell off the assets and put them money into a public fund? Just spitballing.
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Given the number of people that bought actual untested real medication with real, and sometimes lethal, side effects and proudly proclaimed it protected them from Covid while it did nothing of the sort? No, not in the slightest.
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