Proton Calendar rounds out security-focused Big Tech alternative on iOS

App promises end-to-end encryption, advanced cryptograpy for your schedule.

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[Deleted member 744857]

Oh, man. Any news on Android development? I recently switched, and it has become rapidly apparent that the way I use email greatly benefits from having my calendar on the same service.

Not going back to gmail for primary use, but that freaking calendar is my last g-suite holdout and I'd love to kick it.

Edit: News! Proton Calendar app has been available on Android for quite some time. I have no idea how I missed this. Please laugh at the dumb man. ^

 

[ArsScene]

"Proton, then, is offering a far more simple pitch: your data is always encrypted, and it's not being used to connect other (often ad-driven) services or, as is often the case, round out a heap of user data."

thats a very powerful pitch.

 

[yesno]

I don't like the idea of a proprietary calendar app, though, or having the calendar service tied to a specific app. I guess there's no way to be this secure with CalDav?

 

[Architect_of_Insanity]

I'm a proud supporter of Proton, they're the real deal when it comes to maintain privacy in this world. They provide their services for free in addition to paid subscriptions - and I gladly support them because they specifically call out state sponsored targeted attacks against journalists and protecting their data and identity is paramount.

They also are above board on legal requests - as a Swiss company they follow the letter of the law. If a foreign law enforcement entity has a request for data or access logs, they have to prove that they have a legal reason for this data according to Swiss law. So people who think they can use PM for CP or drug sales - aren't going to get away with it.

They also kick you a free gigabyte of storage every year on your renewal, so that's kind of nice.

 

[Architect_of_Insanity]

I don't like the idea of a proprietary calendar app, though, or having the calendar service tied to a specific app. I guess there's no way to be this secure with CalDav?

There is not - much like there is not a way to exfiltrate your email to work with iOS Mail, Outlook, etc. To maintain security - it has to remain in their app. It is really the only gripe I have about the services PM provides.

 

[Zak]

There is not - much like there is not a way to exfiltrate your email to work with iOS Mail, Outlook, etc. To maintain security - it has to remain in their app. It is really the only gripe I have about the services PM provides.

It seems natural to me that they only way Proton can ensure security is by using their own app.

 

[fknuckles]

There is not - much like there is not a way to exfiltrate your email to work with iOS Mail, Outlook, etc. To maintain security - it has to remain in their app. It is really the only gripe I have about the services PM provides.

I suppose if you're really hardcore, they could always blobs to your phone calendar where only the dates and times are plain-text but the who with, and other details are encrypted.

 

[Navalia Vigilate]

Tiny Calendar has been having problems with Google Cal sync and I wanted to look at a new solution. Timely, just downloaded PC, will have to get a Proton account to try it but Proton seems worth the spend.

Edit: Hey, Proton is having a small sale, 7.79/month for the entire suite (1 year). Just signed up.

 

[AmanoJyaku]

Tiny Calendar has been having problems with Google Cal sync and I wanted to look at a new solution. Timely, just downloaded PC, will have to get a Proton account to try it but Proton seems worth the spend.

Edit: Hey, Proton is having a small sale, 7.79/month for the entire suite (1 year). Just signed up.

They have a free plan, as well. My usage fits, so I'll try that out. If I like it, I'll pay just to help fund their efforts.

 

[bthylafh]

Oh, man. Any news on Android development? I recently switched, and it has become rapidly apparent that the way I use email greatly benefits from having my calendar on the same service.

Not going back to gmail for primary use, but that freaking calendar is my last g-suite holdout and I'd love to kick it.

Edit: News! Proton Calendar app has been available on Android for quite some time. I have no idea how I missed this. Please laugh at the dumb man. ^

There are Android apps for Mail, VPN, Calendar, and Drive, the latter in early access. All seem to work fine for me, with the caveat that Mail notifications presently require Google Play Services.

 

[mwdowns]

The discount for a year's subscription is tempting. I currently pay for Fastmail and really like their masked email feature (and integration with 1Password) and Proton doesn't have a similar feature (alias, sorta but not really).

 

[bthylafh]

Proton subscribers also have access to SimpleLogin, which lets you create email address aliases for your Mail account. For example I created an alias for a website requiring a login to download old versions. This alias is for this purpose only.

You can turn the aliases on and off easily; it's a good way to see which company sold your address to a spammer as well.

 

[ArsScene]

I'm a proud supporter of Proton, they're the real deal when it comes to maintain privacy in this world. They provide their services for free in addition to paid subscriptions - and I gladly support them because they specifically call out state sponsored targeted attacks against journalists and protecting their data and identity is paramount.

They also are above board on legal requests - as a Swiss company they follow the letter of the law. If a foreign law enforcement entity has a request for data or access logs, they have to prove that they have a legal reason for this data according to Swiss law. So people who think they can use PM for CP or drug sales - aren't going to get away with it.

They also kick you a free gigabyte of storage every year on your renewal, so that's kind of nice.

could not agree more. whatever proton's flaws, their intent is not malevolent, which makes them pretty unusual among providers of their range of services.

 

[brewejon]

Could anyone enlighten me why a company would want to base itself legally in the Swiss jurisdiction in order to be covered by their privacy laws, as opposed to say being in the EU? I know EU law, I’ve no idea about Swiss law.

 

[SavedByTechnology]

Oh, man. Any news on Android development? I recently switched, and it has become rapidly apparent that the way I use email greatly benefits from having my calendar on the same service.

Not going back to gmail for primary use, but that freaking calendar is my last g-suite holdout and I'd love to kick it.

Edit: News! Proton Calendar app has been available on Android for quite some time. I have no idea how I missed this. Please laugh at the dumb man. ^

 

[Zak]

Could anyone enlighten me why a company would want to base itself legally in the Swiss jurisdiction in order to be covered by their privacy laws, as opposed to say being in the EU? I know EU law, I’ve no idea about Swiss law.

"Both Proton Mail and Proton VPN are located in Switzerland to avoid any surveillance or information requests from countries under the Fourteen Eyes"

From, as usual, Wikipedia

 

[Zak]

Given that Apple is probably the number one security developer in the world

Spoiler: Aha...

 

[TheManIsANobody]

I recently migrated from protonmail to Fastmail. I loved the premise of protonmail but the reality of the service wasn’t ideal for me. Encrypted email sounds great until you remember that the recipient most likely isn’t encrypting it and is probably using gmail.

I didn’t like their mail app at all. It was slow, poor UX, and I’d often receive an email (or shown in the app) that was sent hours before it was delivered to me. I’d check my email in the morning and then I could check again a few hours later and the email would have a time stamp from before the first time I checked my email. But I couldn’t use a different app.

Having a calendar that can only be used with their service was also annoying. I really want a single view of my calendars.

I’ve been happy with Fastmail. It’s cheaper, the UI is lightning fast, especially compared to how slow protonmail felt (perhaps it was just the decrypting process that caused it to slow down), I love the use of masked emails and use it extensively and I love that it renders tracking pixels useless as Fastmail loads images on their servers instead of client side. Protonmail did very recently make a similar change.

 

[Ragnarredbeard]

"Both Proton Mail and Proton VPN are located in Switzerland to avoid any surveillance or information requests from countries under the Fourteen Eyes"

From, as usual, Wikipedia

Sounds good until the US comes along and starts asking questions. Ask the people with accounts at Swiss Banks how that worked out.

 

[AxMi-24]

Sounds good until the US comes along and starts asking questions. Ask the people with accounts at Swiss Banks how that worked out.

Thus the end to end encryption. Trust the state to protect you against spying is something only the most naïve people do. EU laws might protect you against google, but they definitely don't protect you against the likes of BND and co, who are allowed to do basically whatever they want even in Germany where privacy is taken "seriously".

 

[evighed]

There is not - much like there is not a way to exfiltrate your email to work with iOS Mail, Outlook, etc. To maintain security - it has to remain in their app. It is really the only gripe I have about the services PM provides.

That's not entirely true. Check out Proton Mail Bridge (created by Proton, not a 3rd party).

It runs as a locally installed proxy that communicates securely with Proton Mail, so desktop mail apps like Thunderbird or Outlook can sync with PM using standard protocols. Anything that comes out of the local side of the proxy (on your machine only) is unencrypted, so it's your problem to keep your computer secure, but anything leaving your system is fully encrypted.

 

[real mikeb_60]

That's not entirely true. Check out Proton Mail Bridge (created by Proton, not a 3rd party).

It runs as a locally installed proxy that communicates securely with Proton Mail, so desktop mail apps like Thunderbird or Outlook can sync with PM using standard protocols. Anything that comes out of the local side of the proxy (on your machine only) is unencrypted, so it's your problem to keep your computer secure, but anything leaving your system is fully encrypted.

Bridge is a little bit fiddly to get working, and requires a paid subscription. Useful, though.

As for those demanding Ultimate Privacy, if a company is incorporated in a country, the country it's incorporated in has the right to give it orders that must be obeyed. Anywhere. The advantage with the Swiss is that they're aggressively neutral in most things, and don't just roll over when somebody like the US (or Russia) demands something. I appreciate Proton detailing the Tor option for those wanting a little more protection than Proton itself can provide. And even at worst, it hardly compares to the Googles and Microsofts of the world.

 

[davidkassa]

I recently migrated from protonmail to Fastmail. I loved the premise of protonmail but the reality of the service wasn’t ideal for me. Encrypted email sounds great until you remember that the recipient most likely isn’t encrypting it and is probably using gmail.

I didn’t like their mail app at all. It was slow, poor UX, and I’d often receive an email (or shown in the app) that was sent hours before it was delivered to me. I’d check my email in the morning and then I could check again a few hours later and the email would have a time stamp from before the first time I checked my email. But I couldn’t use a different app.

Having a calendar that can only be used with their service was also annoying. I really want a single view of my calendars.

I’ve been happy with Fastmail. It’s cheaper, the UI is lightning fast, especially compared to how slow protonmail felt (perhaps it was just the decrypting process that caused it to slow down), I love the use of masked emails and use it extensively and I love that it renders tracking pixels useless as Fastmail loads images on their servers instead of client side. Protonmail did very recently make a similar change.

How is their search? I tried a few years ago, but the search was lacking and I gave up.

 

[AmanoJyaku]

Proton lost me as a customer after it was shown that none of their privacy guarantees amounted to anything in the face of the Swiss government. It was a sad day because I had been with them from the beginning. But if I have to dive into Tor for protection, I might as well go all the way.

Can you cite sources? Such a claim should always be backed by sources.

 

[wxfisch]

There is not - much like there is not a way to exfiltrate your email to work with iOS Mail, Outlook, etc. To maintain security - it has to remain in their app. It is really the only gripe I have about the services PM provides.

This is mostly right, but there is nuance here. Proton Bridge allows syncing of mail to desktop clients, though it does not work on mobile clients as of now. There really is no reason it could not be ported to iOS or Android if there was enough demand for it. Calendars are a little harder though, even WebDAV and ics have weird syncing issues at time when they are not encrypted and "special" because there really is not true standard the way there is for email.

My biggest gripes with Proton in general is the rebranding and repricing they recently went through that make it more expensive/harder to manage a family of email addresses without getting business plans, they continued pushing of consumer VPNs that are all of dubious value, and the general slowness and inconsistency of syncing on the iOS mail app.

 

[jkellz]

Proton doesn't have a similar feature (alias, sorta but not really).

Proton acquired SimpleLogin to fulfill the alias functionality like Fastmail. Unfortunately, it doesnt integrate with 1Password yet, which is a real shame.

 

[Architect_of_Insanity]

Given that Apple is probably the number one security developer in the world, I fail to see how handing over the keys to my life to a third party developer is useful to hide my things.

You lost me in the first thirteen words of that sentence.

 

[Architect_of_Insanity]

Could anyone enlighten me why a company would want to base itself legally in the Swiss jurisdiction in order to be covered by their privacy laws, as opposed to say being in the EU? I know EU law, I’ve no idea about Swiss law.

You're a search engine query away, but here's something to start with: https://proton.me/blog/court-strengthens-email-privacy

 

[TheManIsANobody]

How is their search? I tried a few years ago, but the search was lacking and I gave up.

Fastmail or protonmail? For protonmail I think it’ll always be bad since they can only search on the data that isn’t encrypted. I’ve never found search to be a good experience. I guess that’s another knock against protonmail. Fastmail seems to do a good enough job with search.

 

[bthylafh]

Proton lost me as a customer after it was shown that none of their privacy guarantees amounted to anything in the face of the Swiss government. It was a sad day because I had been with them from the beginning. But if I have to dive into Tor for protection, I might as well go all the way.

Did you want them to shut down the service entirely? That was their only alternative if they wanted to defy the government.

 

[umaromc]

"…calendars are an 'extremely sensitive' record of your life and that protecting them is essential."

I just uninstalled DigiCal after years of use which, although paid, I found out had embedded Facebook and advertising trackers built in [that] I had to use another app to discover.

 

[KingMierdas]

Proton acquired SimpleLogin to fulfill the alias functionality like Fastmail. Unfortunately, it doesnt integrate with 1Password yet, which is a real shame.

I'm honestly surprised the comments don't have more mention of Fastmail as an alternative. Also, after probably 10+ years of lurking I finally created an account. I don't know why it took me so damn long, but I feel like I missed on being one of the users with a really old date on my account!

Anyway: Fastmail may not be as secure as Proton, but I believe it's privacy is functionally about as good (US based governmentagencies wont likely get the data from an Australian firm). The integration with Bitwarden is nice and email aliases and Masked Emails is fantastic. I've never been so happy to pay for email (I spent hours and hours creating aliases to disconnect from my HOTMAIL (LOL) address and my Gmail account...

 

[Decoherent]

Fastmail or protonmail? For protonmail I think it’ll always be bad since they can only search on the data that isn’t encrypted. I’ve never found search to be a good experience. I guess that’s another knock against protonmail. Fastmail seems to do a good enough job with search.

Assuming you're talking about the email app, at the moment it looks like it only searches subjects, but on a desktop, you have the option to (securely) download your mail so you can do full-text searches as well. Seems to work fine to me.

I'm a pretty big fan of ProtonMail's services. I do wish they'd get the intent on Android set up so I could "share" directly to Drive, but anything else I've encountered is small stuff. Yes, 99% of your email is going to arrive unencrypted, but I'm working on slowly pulling all of my data out of Google. My Gmail address forwards to my ProtonMail address, and a quick tag rule shows me it went to Gmail first. So, I just pop open the relative site/service and change my email address, so it doesn't bounce off Gmail on the way to me. I can't prevent Gmail from reading 95% of my email, but all of my bills and other private and semi-private emails go directly to me, so Google doesn't add it to their endless hopper of my life.

 

[TheManIsANobody]

Assuming you're talking about the email app, at the moment it looks like it only searches subjects, but on a desktop, you have the option to (securely) download your mail so you can do full-text searches as well. Seems to work fine to me.

I'm a pretty big fan of ProtonMail's services. I do wish they'd get the intent on Android set up so I could "share" directly to Drive, but anything else I've encountered is small stuff. Yes, 99% of your email is going to arrive unencrypted, but I'm working on slowly pulling all of my data out of Google. My Gmail address forwards to my ProtonMail address, and a quick tag rule shows me it went to Gmail first. So, I just pop open the relative site/service and change my email address, so it doesn't bounce off Gmail on the way to me. I can't prevent Gmail from reading 95% of my email, but all of my bills and other private and semi-private emails go directly to me, so Google doesn't add it to their endless hopper of my life.

Yeah, using the protonmail bridge does allow you to use a desktop client, but it does have to decrypt the emails client side when your mail client pulls them in (I’m not sure if thunderbird has native PGP support with protonmail or not).

I’m rarely on a desktop outside of work hours, so, that mail client approach wasn’t something I was interested in using.

The inability to forward emails from protonmail to my new Fastmail account really makes me regret using protonmail in the first place.

 

[TechW]

It seems natural to me that they only way Proton can ensure security is by using their own app.

I use Proton Mail and they have an application bridge that allows me to use Outlook.