Polestar brings a cheaper, single-motor Polestar 2 to the US
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It hit me right as I started reading this: motors still have RPMs, and all it has to do is spin a touch faster. That would have been enough explanation for me.
However, everything else you added was helpful and informative as well. Thanks for the response.
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I don't think this is the case, and many a mangled classic Beetle or older 911 would attest to the issue of snap oversteer on a a rear-engined car.
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Yeah, maybe that does make sense. I certainly might have been over simplifying into spherical cow territory (spherical car?) I’m to lazy to start drawing free body diagrams and figuring out the dynamics of even just a CG and four points representing the tires (and I don’t even want to start thinking about the effects of the suspension system).
Maybe a gear head can shed some light? How do skid pad numbers compare in general between similar ICEVs and EVs using the same drive wheels?
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Wow, OK.
So is the frunks advantage that there is no physical release from inside, only electronic so breaking a window wouldn't get you in? Otherwise a breakin just to take a look would seem to carry the same risk.
Luckily I've not been broken in to for 20 years, back when people used to steal stereos.
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Not a gearhead at all here, but I'd suspect it's as much about weight distribution as anything.
As another poster replied to your original content, the Porsche 911 is infamous in this regard, dye to the extreme weight layout.
EVs regardless of driven wheels will tend to have the weight spread more evenly front to back, unless the manufacturer really decides to do otherwise - as Porsche have hinted about their forthcoming "mid-engined" EV in the Cayman class.
In all but the most extreme circumstances (like a skid pad or heavy snow), the right tyres and stability control will save the bacon of many more drivers than a particular pair of wheels driving.
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In fact if you live somewhere that gets ice and snow, front wheel drive is far superior to rear wheel drive. Had a coworker talk of when they bought thier first car, it was a rear wheel drive sportscar and after she signed the salesman asked... "so what are you going to drive in the winter?"
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You said 'Don't modern SUVs have any sort of parcel tray/cover at all? "Stuff visible to passers by" is a long solved problem!'
However, even better than using a trunk cover to avoid break-ins... is not using a trunk cover in a hatchback/SUV to show your trunk is completely empty and storing your valuables in someplace not quickly/easily accessed by thieves.
Before it was my old Thule roofbox... now it's my frunk.
Of course... now people are drilling gas tanks... so YMMV.
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While I was too lazy to do the math, I found a decent Wikipedia article on directional stability that goes through the basic calculations I was imagining in my head. It turns out that the key factor is the location of the CG with respect to the wheel base. If the CG is the behind the centerline between the wheels, then the car will become directionally unstable. I assume this is why the rear engined cars mentioned by the other poster have a tendency to snap oversteer.
All that being said, I absolutely agree with you that the right tires and ESC will make way more of a difference. While I am an absolute cheap-ass by nature, tires are the one place I will splurge. They are the things keeping your multi-ton high velocity metal box pointed in the direction you want to go.
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Interesting read on directional stability, thanks.
There's a reason why the 911 layout isn't widely replicated: a mid-engined layout really does have the physics in its favour.
Clearly the 911 is amazing, but the one time I drove one (brand new on a dealer event in the rain) I could definitely feel the particular way it handled, and knowing my limits as a driver I was uncomfortable. That would probably dissipate if I drove one more, and it was in 2018 so the ESC would definitely be good in standard drive modes, but the prospect of crashing a car like that really made me nervous.
Per that article Mid-engined layouts reduce the moment of inertia in yaw, so despite weight being rear biased the balance is excellent for drivers of merely human ability.
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In a Model 3, the frunk is arguably less secure. Remove the access cover in the bumper, apply 12 volts to the cables being it, the frunk unlocks and opens. This is to allow emergency services access to the orange cable to cut to isolate the high voltage traction battery.
As such, I consider the frunk less secure than the rest of the car, since opening it that way is less noisy than breaking a window. I would not be storing my expensive laptops and devices in the frunk.
I use my frunk for the mobile charger, roadside repair gear, and other stuff you might want access to on a long trip in an emergency without unpacking the trunk. (Except for the absence of a spare tyre - a sore point recently).
Relating to security of cars - I think it's more important to follow an opsec of not being obvious about storing laptops or other expensive bags at your destination - where it's observable as you walk away from the parked vehicle. Better to get that right as you pack the car before you depart.
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Photon_plumber
Ars Tribunus Militum
You still need an extensive front collapsible structure to deal with impacts.
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Statistical
Ars Legatus Legionis
The emergency access only works if the battery is dead (or car unlocked).
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No, it's definitely safer.
I drove RWD cars for decades and then ended up with a FWD, and the differences in handling are pretty remarkable, especially in turns. The back end doesn't slide out nearly as easily (unless you want it to) and there's a lot more control in recovering from a slide than in a RWD car.
I've seen a few drivers lose their shit when going from a FWD to a RWD car and wonder what the hell happened, because the FWD could easily do what the RWD can't.
I suppose it's a traction thing since the engine (and weight) is typically sitting over the drive wheels, instead of over the back. More down-force on the drive wheels would significantly alter the handling characteristics of most any vehicle.
That said, I'm honestly not sure how that translates to an EV, though, since the motors don't weigh nearly as much, and the battery weight is largely distributed across the chassis. I've not test driven any EV's, so I have no personal experience in their handling characteristics. If weight over the drive wheel is the major factor in the handling differences, it may not be as significant in an EV as it would be for other cars that have engines. OTOH, pulling from the front does alter the physics, too, so your guess is as good as mine how well FWD works for EV's vs RWD. I'd just expect the differences to be somewhat less than for an ICE or hybrid.
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Not germane to the article, but they also jacked up the price on Starlink "effective immediately due to high inflation."
(they also....Elon Musk's businesses, I meant)
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Can confirm.
That said, FWD's superiority over RWD in slippery conditions comes largely from the days of open diffs (and, if you were lucky, Posi-Traction) before electronic stability and traction control systems were invented. If a modern RWD car starts to let go and get squirrely, the computer steps in, brakes the offending wheel(s) individually, and brings it back in line. They aren't the oversteering, snowbank-eating monsters that they used to be when the only available controls were "MOAR POWER!" and "Brake ALL the wheels!"
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Having spent many winters parked on ice with all-season tires, a major FWD benefit comes from the ability to turn the wheels which are desperately trying to find grip.
Works a lot better to get out of parallel parking spots than having some wheels spinning straight, while other wheels 10 ft away try to apply a direction on the ice.
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It is as long as you don't exceed traction. Even if you don't intend to, a surprise loss of traction can be very hard to catch if you aren't used to how fast a mid-engine car will turn in that situation, especially if you are already turning. I've had a few such surprises, but fortunately I am very used to a mid-engine's handling.
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I've been driving RWD cars since forever (with one stint in a FWD Toyota) in the snow.
With winter tires this is simply not a problem (usually--watch out for tall drifts). I've easily passed AWD and 4WD SUVs and trucks stuck in ditches. You have far superior traction, you win. And all cars are 4 wheel braking.
Having said that, AWD is an amazing benefit all else being equal. I fully intend for my next car to be my first ever AWD vehicle.
With winter tires this is simply not a problem (usually--watch out for tall drifts). I've easily passed AWD and 4WD SUVs and trucks stuck in ditches. You have far superior traction, you win. And all cars are 4 wheel braking.
Having said that, AWD is an amazing benefit all else being equal. I fully intend for my next car to be my first ever AWD vehicle.
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On the subject of FWD vs RWD, oversteer and slippery conditions I'd like to weigh-in. In my day-to-day life i drive a Kia EV 6 Long Range with RWD and I've had experiences in both icy and wet conditions.
Honestly, at least for the EV 6, the oversteer and icy conditions are managed beyond expectations by the car's control systems.
If you really push it exiting a turn or roundabout on wet roads, the car will give a small kick, go j/k and then carry on as if nothing out of the ordinary happened.
The same for setting off on ice, it was as simple as putting it in snow-mode and you could kick the pedal to the metal and the car would give a short spin of the rear wheels before setting off in a slow and controlled fashion. Nothing exciting.
Unlike an ICE, there's no punishment of the brakes going on when the anti-spin kicks in, it simply just adjusts the speed of the wheels.
Honestly, at least for the EV 6, the oversteer and icy conditions are managed beyond expectations by the car's control systems.
If you really push it exiting a turn or roundabout on wet roads, the car will give a small kick, go j/k and then carry on as if nothing out of the ordinary happened.
The same for setting off on ice, it was as simple as putting it in snow-mode and you could kick the pedal to the metal and the car would give a short spin of the rear wheels before setting off in a slow and controlled fashion. Nothing exciting.
Unlike an ICE, there's no punishment of the brakes going on when the anti-spin kicks in, it simply just adjusts the speed of the wheels.
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My only complaint about the Polestar 2 was the range (I had a dual motor with all addons except the performance package for a week for a road trip), as I only got around 300 km/charge and that was really pushing it, with just about 10% charge remaining. It was in late October though and quite cold (+2 to +5 C) so obviously had an effect, but I am curious of the real world range in warmer seasons. I absolutely loved the car otherwise, and I don’t even like cars that much otherwise,
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That's really strange, perhaps it is something regional? The Swedish manual (linked but not translated) notes that in the applicable group any approved booster is fine. If otherwise, they'd all be in a big lot somewhere, gathering dust.
I'd try to reach out to get a personal explanation for that one, if I were you.
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he polestar isn't a sedan. To suffer through an EV6 is just unfair!!!
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Also a model 3 owner for 3 years.
Always in there: charging adapters and tire puncture/reinflate kit
In there on short trips: particularly appetizing carry out so I don't get hangry while driving back home
In there on long trips: carry-on sized backpack and jacket
On long trips (usually snowboarding multi-week adventures) in addition to frunk usage: the sub trunk gets food that doesn't mind freezing temps, the main trunk compartment (with the 60% seat folded) gets the boards, skis, gear bags, large clothing bags, boots/helmet bag, etc and the passenger compartment gets the people + snack bag and kids toy bag.
Amazing what you can pack into that car for long trips. Looking forward to a Y in a couple more years.
[edit] also, 100th post... yay me!
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That page states which booster seats are okay to use, not how tall the kids you put on them are allowed to be.
I've noticed that the page I read was actually from the 2021 model year, not the 2022. And for that one, even though all the seat categories are allowed, the height limit STILL APPLIES as can be seen here in the swedish manual:
https://www.polestar.com/se/manual/pole ... s%C3%A4te/
I don't know what the status is for the 2022 model year, since the WARNING is still there, but just an empty box without any information. So either Polestar forgot to remove the WARNING or they forgot to include the description:
https://www.polestar.com/se/manual/pole ... s%C3%A4te/
As you say, a follow up is probably the best way to go, but either way there is an unfortunate error in the 2022 manual.
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I rarely use my frunk. The one thing I regularly use it for is picking up a pizza. The smell is totally isolated from the cabin so I don’t end up with a car that smells like pizza.
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The RWD/FWD debate continues..
I have experienced some unwanted and potentially unsafe behavior in FWD cars, like severe torque steer in a Kona when accelerating out of a tight-ish corner, or several types of FWD VW with the same problem.
The VW's also had great difficulty getting off the mark in the rain. You want to be able to count on a certain amount of acceleration, getting onto a roundabout, for instance.. In this case, the traction control would cut the power to essentially zero if one wheel started to spin - which happens easily with FWD.
I much prefer the stable feel that RWD (or AWD) gives me, just my 2c.
I have experienced some unwanted and potentially unsafe behavior in FWD cars, like severe torque steer in a Kona when accelerating out of a tight-ish corner, or several types of FWD VW with the same problem.
The VW's also had great difficulty getting off the mark in the rain. You want to be able to count on a certain amount of acceleration, getting onto a roundabout, for instance.. In this case, the traction control would cut the power to essentially zero if one wheel started to spin - which happens easily with FWD.
I much prefer the stable feel that RWD (or AWD) gives me, just my 2c.
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I feel like I have concluded that range over about 200 miles gets me nothing helpful.
My priorities for an EV are:
* Heat pump
* A nice place to be (interior: conventional dash or HUD)
* CCS (at least 120 kW; prefer 200+ kW)
* 60 kWh ish battery (i.e. 20 min charge time approx. for 200 kW)
More battery than 200 miles is just more weight, and more cost. I'd like a car not a SUV.
It should be possible to do this for < 35k USD. Look at the Leaf+ except faster charging/CCS. In my view the only problems with a Leaf are: no CCS which seems like it will be the network standard (and no adapter); battery temperature management is not there.
My priorities for an EV are:
* Heat pump
* A nice place to be (interior: conventional dash or HUD)
* CCS (at least 120 kW; prefer 200+ kW)
* 60 kWh ish battery (i.e. 20 min charge time approx. for 200 kW)
More battery than 200 miles is just more weight, and more cost. I'd like a car not a SUV.
It should be possible to do this for < 35k USD. Look at the Leaf+ except faster charging/CCS. In my view the only problems with a Leaf are: no CCS which seems like it will be the network standard (and no adapter); battery temperature management is not there.
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Most people are try hards, and wouldnt or couldnt tell the difference in a random car if they went for a drive around the block.
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Can also confirm as someone who bought a (very preowned) 300ZX 150 miles from home.
There was a thunderstorm on the way back home. Obviously, it was my first time in that car. Steep learning curve.
Anyhoo - FWD cars are massively improved in terms of delivering power to the road now (better tyres, better diffs, better torque vectoring, whatevs) but the one thing they are STILL inherently less good at is high torque. What are electric cars strong on? High torque at every road speed.
So once an electric car is past what we used to call peak power of 250bhp or so, all those limitations still apply, except MORE so because the torque through those wheels is unrelenting. The early common-rail diesel hot hatches were horrific for similar reasons.
Whilst choice of which end to drive will affect weight distribution a little bit I would have thought battery placement(s) vastly outweighs it? Which makes me think the comments up-thread about FWD being safe and familiar must be most of the reason to do it.
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I interpreted that as "essential to accurate price comparison" - in other words the majority of comparable cars at the Polestar's base price point have all of those advanced driver systems, so Polestar adding $3200 off-sheet skews the comparison.
However - you can't buy it right now anyway (at least according to the UK configurator), thanks to component shortage. The nerfed version of it, Pilot Lite, includes:
LED front fog lights with cornering lights
360° camera
Driver assistance with Pilot Assist, Adaptive Cruise Control, and Emergency Stop Assist
Driver awareness with Blind Spot Information System (BLIS) with steering assist, Cross Traffic Alert with brake support, and Rear Collision Warning & Mitigation
Automatically dimmed exterior mirrors
Park Assist, sides
I too would expect those on a £40k car, except maybe the cornering lights.
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Doing some rough math based on my location history yesterday, I drove 67.1 miles, starting at 76%, with a small charge of 10%, and ending at 52%, so I got 76 miles on 34% of charge. All in all, the range is 196miles, assuming 100% -> 0%. Not bad for high speed (80mph) driving.
From personal experience, this doesn't change too much in the cold if you rely on the seat heating and low cabin heating.
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Statistical
Ars Legatus Legionis
Keep in mind 200 miles is EPA range. Do you cruise on the highway at 70 mph well that 200 miles is now more like 180 miles. At 75 mph more like 160 miles.
Your charging assumes 0% to 100% which won't happen in 20 minutes. If you charge say 10% to 80% then you are only getting 70% of the battery pack so that 160 to 180 miles becomes ~120 miles.
Now cold weather and eventually age will reduce that.
200 EPA miles is doable but it won't mean you go 200 miles between stops on a trip. To have 200 miles @ 70 mph between charges on a trip would require something around 300 miles EPA.
Now for a commuter car 200 miles (hell even 150 miles) is plenty but then Fast CCS charging really is a non-issue.
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Yeah. For a road trip any legs past the initial one you are probably looking at ~60% + or - 10% between stops due to various factors. Driving 60mph when the weather is nice can do better but for charging you can't really get past the fact that charge rate tapers off quite a bit. 10%-60% can take 20 minutes and 60-90% might take another 45 minutes or an hour.
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