Piracy up in France after tough three-strikes law passed

French researchers have found that people are abandoning P2P networks as a tough new Internet disconnection law comes online, but they aren't abandoning piracy. Most simply shift to streaming and HTTP downloads, which the law doesn't cover.

<a href='http://meincmagazine.com/tech-policy/news/2010/03/piracy-up-in-france-after-tough-three-strikes-law-passed.ars'>Read the whole story</a>

 

[amardeus]

I lolled.

 

[[S]Replicant]

And this is why increasingly STUPID legislation won't solve a thing. Media companies have to get their house in order and sell their product at a price the market will bear. As long as they price it above peoples price range, people will pirate.

I find it amusing they can be so blind. The money they supposedly "lose" to piracy isn't lost at all, because if the pirate in question couldn't download it, they either (a) wouldn't be able to afford to buy it, or (b) wouldn't buy it because the price is too high. Big media has no one to blame but themselves.

 

[arbguy]

the more they scratch it, the more it itches

 

[Jakal]

WTF is 'Hadopi' law? I haven't a clue what the difference bewteen a Hadopi pirate and a non-Hadopi pirate is.

 

[dragosani]

I didn't see this coming at all!

sarcasm

 

[Tworak]

I see the suits still don't _get_ it.

 

[Kani]

WTF is 'Hadopi' law? I haven't a clue what the difference bewteen a Hadopi pirate and a non-Hadopi pirate is.

Hadopi is a French three strikes anti-piracy law that recently went into effect. If you search Ars for Hadopi you will find numerous articles detailing its past from details on what it is in it to how it was struck down once before passing.

 

[daemonios]

1. Seriously doubt the statistics on the number of pirates, especially so soon after this new law. It's not like pirates advertise their numbers...

2. HA HA! This is called covering your head and leaving your feet out in the cold. Well, it makes sense in Portuguese

 

[beanos66]

it always tickles me that industries dominated by tax dodgers, junkies and thieves are seen by "our" politicians as the good guys, yet you download a metallica album (one from when they were good) and you are seen as evil incarnate who shouldn't have any human rights

 

[flyingember]

piracy, the modern mix tape

 

[WiseWeasel]

Haha!
/Nelson

 

[gorehound]

Boycott all the main rightsholders like I am doing.you won't find me buying anything from greedbag companies again except when I buy it USED.
French folks shove it to the man and boycott the gredbags in your country.

 

[Benji XVI]

“Whack that mole” is pretty much the best subheading I’ve yet seen in an article on file sharing.

 

[Pinjata]

WTF is 'Hadopi' law? I haven't a clue what the difference bewteen a Hadopi pirate and a non-Hadopi pirate is.

Hadopi pirate = P2P pirate
non-Hadopi pirate = HTTP and streaming pirate

 

[Jakal]

Thanks for the clarification, Pinjata and Kani

 

[Tundro Walker]

I was going to make a snarky comment, but really this is just getting old. Yes...they win. I no longer want to comment on their stupidity. I've been beaten.

Wait, that wasn't the result they were going for?

 

[mknopp]

Who didn't see this coming?

I mean seriously, all that the media companies have to do to stop piracy is get rid of Napster.

Oops! I was channelling the 90's there for a second.

Idiots! And I mean that literally based on the old adage, "What is idiocy? Doing the same thing over and over and expecting a different result."

 

[EatingPie]

I have a little different take than the article...

I have only been to one streaming site, and it was a horror of cam hell. Yeah, newest movies! And equally yeah, "looked like shit" isn't even touching the surface. Ugh.

P2P downloads, however, were invariably better quality because they involved Blu-ray or DVD rips, or caps.

So what I conclude here is that the law is having an effect. Instead of relatively clean, watchable rips, pirates are now driven to the horrors of cam streaming. So in this regard, it's working... and would explain why people are buying after watching ("Good story, now I'd like to actually see the movie!).

Of course there must be better streaming sites than the one I saw, I'd bet they're still not nearly as good as P2P type downloads. I base this on my experience with Netflix, which is legal streaming, in HD, and looks like absolute garbage. So, once again, the law may have increased piracy, but it's making it harder to get quality. And after a certainly amount of time, I'm betting lots of people will just plain tire of the crap and we'll see an even larger bump in pirates buying legit copies.

-Pie

 

[Flaming Sasquatch]

Replicant":63e3ae7y]The money they supposedly "lose" to piracy isn't lost at all, because if the pirate in question couldn't download it, they either (a) wouldn't be able to afford to buy it, or (b) wouldn't buy it because the price is too high. Big media has no one to blame but themselves.

Or maybe it is lost money because people would (c) suck it up and actually pay for stuff when they can't get it for free.

 

[arbguy]

"Or maybe it is lost money because people would (c) suck it up and actually pay for stuff when they can't get it for free. "

or (d) do like me in the 90's and shoplift it from HMV

 

[hedaayat]

The real problem about digital content is the short lifetime they offer to the buyer compared to paper media.
I've a collection of several hundred DVDs and about thousand CDs. Ever changing technology made me buy the same content over and over again (tape, dvd, blueray and soon 3D things) because it is too difficult to keep the recorder/player devices for longtime. Fo how many years from now I can still read play my CDs ?
Your books on their shelf are all ready to be used, the reader is you not any electronic devices. This is my principal reason I easily pay the price of a book. A book offers much more than a digital media and still some digital content are more expensive than books.

Another point is, when I go to a bookshop I can choose to read every single page of any book before I buy it. Can I do this with digital audio or video ?

Digital media should be much cheaper than any book to incite people to buy and posses them. Otherwise people will find alternative ways to use digital media at cheaper prices which leads to piracy.

 

[AdamM]

Replicant":2safyao7]And this is why increasingly STUPID legislation won't solve a thing. Media companies have to get their house in order and sell their product at a price the market will bear. As long as they price it above peoples price range, people will pirate.

I find it amusing they can be so blind. The money they supposedly "lose" to piracy isn't lost at all, because if the pirate in question couldn't download it, they either (a) wouldn't be able to afford to buy it, or (b) wouldn't buy it because the price is too high. Big media has no one to blame but themselves.

People will pirate anyways.

They could sell the movie for a dollar people will still steal it rather then buy it.

 

[Black_Obsidian]

Replicant":6n1t3k0m]And this is why increasingly STUPID legislation won't solve a thing. Media companies have to get their house in order and sell their product at a price the market will bear. As long as they price it above peoples price range, people will pirate.

I find it amusing they can be so blind. The money they supposedly "lose" to piracy isn't lost at all, because if the pirate in question couldn't download it, they either (a) wouldn't be able to afford to buy it, or (b) wouldn't buy it because the price is too high. Big media has no one to blame but themselves.

People will pirate anyways.

They could sell the movie for a dollar people will still steal it rather then buy it.

Coincidentally, the people who fall into this category are the people who aren't doing them any harm whatsoever. Because, as you've so usefully pointed out, they were never going to buy it anyway. The industry's time would be better spent engaging with the pirates who would buy their product under the right conditions (a large minority, if not a majority of pirates), to find out exactly what those right conditions would be, and if they're at all practical.

Is it price? And if it is, is the desired price of the pirates financially tenable for the industry? One need only look at the stratospheric sales during Steam sales to understand that price is a huge barrier for a lot of people, and that lower prices can generate better sales and better profits at the same time.
Is it DRM? And if it is... well hell, just abandon it. Because let's not kid ourselves here: DRM hasn't been even so much as a speed bump for pirates, while inconveniencing actual paying customers in various and sundry ways. If giving up the quixotic technological fight against pirates means fewer pirates and more paying customers... you do the math.
Is it marginal value? Alright, so if it's this, they're basically screwed. If someone considers the value of your project to be marginal at best, you either need to find some way to increase its perceived value, or get a different product.

The industry has long since discovered that it can't beat the pirates, even with the government's help. If it won't engage with them to find a solution that converts pirates into paying customers, then it isn't deserving of much sympathy, IMHO.

 

[EatingPie]

The real problem about digital content is the short lifetime they offer to the buyer compared to paper media.
I've a collection of several hundred DVDs and about thousand CDs. Ever changing technology made me buy the same content over and over again (tape, dvd, blueray and soon 3D things) because it is too difficult to keep the recorder/player devices for longtime. Fo how many years from now I can still read play my CDs ?

Everything you named is a major step forward in quality. Tape to DVD was 2x. DVD to Blu-ray is 6x. Then 3D is a different experience all together. So you get value added when you re-purchase, and yet all these formats are still playable today.

Take VHS. It's 20 (?) years old, and you can still to this day buy players for it (it's also not digital btw).

Your books on their shelf are all ready to be used, the reader is you not any electronic devices. This is my principal reason I easily pay the price of a book. A book offers much more than a digital media and still some digital content are more expensive than books.

Are you saying books never wear out? Don't become dusty as they dissolve? Become unreadable if they get wet or moldy?

Non-DRM books will potentially last much longer than regular books.

Another point is, when I go to a bookshop I can choose to read every single page of any book before I buy it. Can I do this with digital audio or video ?

You certainly cannot with movies. But to the points, while what you propose is possible, with books, it's impractical in the extreme. At least for the general reader. It took me about a day and a half to read the last Harry Potter book, and it was basically non-stop reading (good fucking book!!). Are you seriously suggesting that people read full books in bookstores before purchase? And consider that realistic??

Digital media should be much cheaper than any book to incite people to buy and posses them. Otherwise people will find alternative ways to use digital media at cheaper prices which leads to piracy.

I agree with this. And in general it is. Lots of mid-$20 hardcovers are $9.99 on B&N and Amazon. (Obviosuly Apple looks like they're screwing this up.)

My impression is that you're saying "It's not cheap enough, so I will take it for free!" It's very tempting, but I just don't see where you can justify this as a legitimate morality.

It's selfishness, pure and simple.

-Pie

 

[ezee.se]

I have a little different take than the article...

I have only been to one streaming site, and it was a horror of cam hell. Yeah, newest movies! And equally yeah, "looked like shit" isn't even touching the surface. Ugh.

P2P downloads, however, were invariably better quality because they involved Blu-ray or DVD rips, or caps.

So what I conclude here is that the law is having an effect. Instead of relatively clean, watchable rips, pirates are now driven to the horrors of cam streaming. So in this regard, it's working... and would explain why people are buying after watching ("Good story, now I'd like to actually see the movie!).

Of course there must be better streaming sites than the one I saw, I'd bet they're still not nearly as good as P2P type downloads. I base this on my experience with Netflix, which is legal streaming, in HD, and looks like absolute garbage. So, once again, the law may have increased piracy, but it's making it harder to get quality. And after a certainly amount of time, I'm betting lots of people will just plain tire of the crap and we'll see an even larger bump in pirates buying legit copies.

-Pie

The Beatles sang about "money cant buy you love",
and someone (i cant remember who) said: "Then you're shopping at the wrong places honey"

Sorry about your bad experience (i really am, being a pirate myself i try to help others to be pirates as much as possible) so perhaps you should change the places you 'shop' at.

Ch131.com is pretty decent as is ninjavideo.net
if you get bored with that , a simple google search should show/give you other options.
Also keep in mind quality will increase as broadband speeds keep getting better.

Feel free to PM me if you need more info, links etc (you can alternatively contact us via our contact us link on the website if you need any help.) to help you on your way.

There is NO real reason to feed the beast that is the Music and Movie industries, it's time to starve it.

 

[A.Felix]

EatingPie wrote:
Of course there must be better streaming sites than the one I saw, I'd bet they're still not nearly as good as P2P type downloads. I base this on my experience with Netflix, which is legal streaming, in HD, and looks like absolute garbage. So, once again, the law may have increased piracy, but it's making it harder to get quality. And after a certainly amount of time, I'm betting lots of people will just plain tire of the crap and we'll see an even larger bump in pirates buying legit copies.

Well, that might be one way to look at this, but it is just a temporary technological limitation. The quality might not be a match *now* but give it some time and it will be. DVD rips used to be huge by yesteryear standards, now even youtube is testing some 1080p streaming, how long before sites offer DVD quality streaming? Do I have any legal way of obtaining digitally distributed entertainment, which would be a very welcome alternative in this day and age? For the most part I don't so what I say is the companies should focus on how to operate in a digital market instead of trying to force technology to go backwards.

 

[Glav]

"The more you tighten your grip, Tarkin, the more star systems will slip through your fingers."

 

[A.Felix]

www.ezee.se wrote:
There is NO real reason to feed the beast that is the Music and Movie industries, it's time to starve it.

I wouldn't go that far, I would still like an industry to be left to produce the entertainment I enjoy. My aversion to this kind of tactics is that it won't help at all and can potentially do a lot of harm.

 

[ezee.se]

ezee.se wrote:
There is NO real reason to feed the beast that is the Music and Movie industries, it's time to starve it.

I wouldn't go that far, I would still like an industry to be left to produce the entertainment I enjoy. My aversion to this kind of tactics is that it won't help at all and can potentially do a lot of harm.

Starve, not kill it.
While I do think "kill" would be better for the music industry (not to be confused with the artists that actually create music).

The problem these industries have gotten so big they have forgotten that without us (the consumer) they have nothing to sell, but rather than adapt to suit us, because they have become so huge they want to *force* us to adapt to them. And they do that with the money that _we_ gave them.
Starving them should get their priorities straight and force them to adapt.

Copyright has gone crazy and far beyond what it was intended to serve.
ACTA being pushed by the industries is more than crazy.

If you dont rebel with civil disobedience one day you are going to wake up and wonder what the F were you doing a little while back that has given you a world where your rights were stripped to serve an outdated business model. Some would argue that day is already here, I am more optimistic.

 

[Flaming Sasquatch]

They could sell the movie for a dollar people will still steal it rather then buy it.

Coincidentally, the people who fall into this category are the people who aren't doing them any harm whatsoever. Because, as you've so usefully pointed out, they were never going to buy it anyway.

Yes. They. Would.

If someone can afford Internet access fast enough to download the latest Bluray rip then they can also afford the couple of bucks it would cost to rent it. Such people *would* pay for content if that was the only option, but they don't because they can get the same content off p2p for free.

And it's real hard to compete with free.

 

[ezee.se]

"Such people *would* pay for content if that was the only option"

That genie has left the bottle.

It's NOT the only option and will never be so again.
Thats the point that "some" people don't get - or don't want to get, or try to control the genie.

"And it's real *hard* to compete with free. "
True, but not *impossible*.

Yes, in the 'good ol' days' the suits just sat back and the money poured in, now they have to really work to compete with it, offer better value, and its just too much work for them so they would rather try to suppress the genie to get the old days back.
Its not going to work, technology moves forward with little/no regard to business models.

 

[guano62]

Other industries outsource and close under performing operations ( not money loosing, they just don't make management look good). These tactics make management look as if they are actually creating value for the company's owners while simultaneously reducing the workload on management. Big media, being barred from using such tactics by the nature of it's products, it is easy to see how stressed the big media managements would become. Over exposure to stressful situations is know to lead to paranoia and delusions...

 

[Catafriggm]

Yes. They. Would.

If someone can afford Internet access fast enough to download the latest Bluray rip then they can also afford the couple of bucks it would cost to rent it. Such people *would* pay for content if that was the only option, but they don't because they can get the same content off p2p for free.

And it's real hard to compete with free.

You have flunked economics 101. Better luck next semester!

 

[hobgoblin]

The real problem about digital content is the short lifetime they offer to the buyer compared to paper media.
I've a collection of several hundred DVDs and about thousand CDs. Ever changing technology made me buy the same content over and over again (tape, dvd, blueray and soon 3D things) because it is too difficult to keep the recorder/player devices for longtime. Fo how many years from now I can still read play my CDs ?

Everything you named is a major step forward in quality. Tape to DVD was 2x. DVD to Blu-ray is 6x. Then 3D is a different experience all together. So you get value added when you re-purchase, and yet all these formats are still playable today.

i make the claim that the change in convenience was more important then quality. CD and DVD did aways with the REW and FF requirements of cassette tape and VHS. And media files allow it to be moved around with ease.

the higher def card have already been tried with dvd-audio, and it flopped. blu-ray may have some better luck, but i do not think the changeover will be as quick as vhs to dvd was.

as for 3D, thats both media and tech companies running out of ideas for getting people to replace fully working gear and content.

 

[fanscale]

"If someone can afford Internet access fast enough to download the latest Bluray rip then they can also afford the couple of bucks it would cost to rent it. Such people *would* pay for content if that was the only option, but they don't because they can get the same content off p2p for free."


Maybe the majority of pirates are teenage kids using their parents high speed broadband connection.
Pirates are media consumers whether it's free or they need to buy it.

 

[hobgoblin]

If someone can afford Internet access fast enough to download the latest Bluray rip then they can also afford the couple of bucks it would cost to rent it. Such people *would* pay for content if that was the only option, but they don't because they can get the same content off p2p for free.

sometimes its not about speed, its about time. thanks to cable or dsl being neither time not amount metered, even a slow connection can make due. Just leave the p2p running in the background. Heck, thats how it was done on dialup during napster. Leave napster in the background with a list of files, while doing other things.

also, i am unsure about how high the percentage of traffic is blu-ray related. Most probably opt for dvd quality or similar, tho the source material may have been a blu-ray or HD tv transmission. Much more likely to play on less then optimal hardware that way.

 

[hobgoblin]

"If someone can afford Internet access fast enough to download the latest Bluray rip then they can also afford the couple of bucks it would cost to rent it. Such people *would* pay for content if that was the only option, but they don't because they can get the same content off p2p for free."


Maybe the majority of pirates are teenage kids using their parents high speed broadband connection.
Pirates are media consumers whether it's free or they need to buy it.

the same group of people that would make use of radio recordings rather then buy, or trade with friends thanks to dual slot cassette decks.

only diff is that then the friend was down the street, now he may well be on the other side of the globe.

and that may well be the real point. Now the market is global. No more a option to sell something cheap locally while expensive somewhere else as its a narrow market. Basically, price differentiation is out the window.

http://craphound.com/?p=2758

 

[Catafriggm]

Maybe the majority of pirates are teenage kids using their parents high speed broadband connection.
Pirates are media consumers whether it's free or they need to buy it.

More importantly, one of the basics of the basics of economics is that demand and price are linked (this is implicit in the classic principle of supply and demand). As price rises, demand drops; thus a price of 0 is the point at which demand is maximal. Therefore there's a large difference in demand for something between getting it for free and paying some price for it, and a large number of people will download something for free that they wouldn't pay any price for if they couldn't get it for free.

So in a sense you could say it's impossible to compete with free, but not for the reason believed by people who usually say it. It's because there are simply many people who will take something for free who would not under any circumstances pay for it, because they simply don't consider the thing as being worth any more than free.

To claim that everyone (or even most) who download something for free would pay for it if they couldn't download it demonstrates a laughable ignorance of even the most basic economic theory you'd learn in a first year general-ed economics class.

 

[hobgoblin]

heck, it may even be that they download because they are curious about it, and the local watering holes do not have it available (dvd zones and such, anyone?). Maybe after downloading they find they dont care for it, and delete it? But still it registers as a download on the statistics, even tho a similar sample in a physical store could have the equivalent effect.

heck, have anyone else noticed that movie trailers, especially action movies, had a sad tendency to show of all the best parts of said movie? and that the parts between can make what appears to be a blockbuster in trailer a snore?