NSA finally admits to spying on Americans by purchasing sensitive data
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What if data mining could have locked up thousands of legitimate protestors? Had anyone with a potential connection to terrorism sent to Guantanamo? Arrest everyone who has ever pirated a movie, planned a protest or failed to mention their tips when filing their tax return?
Mass surveillance, besides providing far more data than is useful, is the kind of thing despots do. And the argument “but China does it!” should be a giant red flag, not an argument.
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Yes it's depressing, but the cynic in me says that the Bork history shows a path.
Have a suitably embarrassing dataset for a suitably influencial figure, publicised in a less-restrained-than-John-Oliver manner: who knows what could be done?
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IPunchCholla
Ars Scholae Palatinae
Or, you know, you can work to make things better. I try and do that a bit. Heck, in some small way I helped unionize my workplace.
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I've been seeing something new to me recently. Some sites when asking you to accept cookies now offer the alternative "don't collect or sell my information".
Others I've seen previously have always given a "settings" menu to uncheck boxes. Each box you uncheck frequently comes with a warning that the site will be useless without hoovering up ever bit of data they can wring out of you.
Not that I believe they won't still do it, but I think by law it should be an option. Many/most sites should be able to work unless you are making a purchase or somehow consciously give them information.
Edit: clarity
Others I've seen previously have always given a "settings" menu to uncheck boxes. Each box you uncheck frequently comes with a warning that the site will be useless without hoovering up ever bit of data they can wring out of you.
Not that I believe they won't still do it, but I think by law it should be an option. Many/most sites should be able to work unless you are making a purchase or somehow consciously give them information.
Edit: clarity
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You're being down voted because while everyone is outraged the shackles come covered in velvet and few are is serious about changing that status as it would require protests and civil disobedience which is too inconvenient for most.
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It's been common knowledge for quite some time now that the NSA spies on Americans both directly and indirectly. Privacy is a joke in America. But since there does not seem to be much noise about it, our government keeps doing it. Americans have the best government money can buy, so we get what we pay for... in every sense of the word.
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Been saying this was the case for over a decade. This is the reason why the government doesn't want to push aggressive consumer privacy protections. Companies can't sell them what they don't have. It's the most capitalist way to go around that pesky 4th Amendment.
Note the wording used by Wyden: they want to stop the government from "buying personal data from Americans that has been obtained illegally by data brokers." That Facebook account you have? Open game. Google, Microsoft, Apple, credit card companies, Paypal, Venmo, Squarespace, Fox News, NBC, CNN, Conde Naste, and all the others? You betcha. If there's info to be sold that you agreed to have collected, companies will see a way to make money off of it, and the government is just another buyer like anyone else covered by the "will not share or sell except to third parties" small prints in user consent forms when an account is made.
Note the wording used by Wyden: they want to stop the government from "buying personal data from Americans that has been obtained illegally by data brokers." That Facebook account you have? Open game. Google, Microsoft, Apple, credit card companies, Paypal, Venmo, Squarespace, Fox News, NBC, CNN, Conde Naste, and all the others? You betcha. If there's info to be sold that you agreed to have collected, companies will see a way to make money off of it, and the government is just another buyer like anyone else covered by the "will not share or sell except to third parties" small prints in user consent forms when an account is made.
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"not aware of any requirement in US law or judicial opinion" forcing the DoD to "obtain a court order in order to acquire, access, or use" commercially available information that "is equally available for purchase to foreign adversaries, US companies, and private persons as it is to the US government."
Perhaps, if our government hasn't spent the last three decades over-focused on maintaining access to such private data, they'd have done more to ensure other nations and individuals couldn't assemble/buy such data as well. We need to cut them off from that data hard, then refocus on protecting American's private data from everyone
Perhaps, if our government hasn't spent the last three decades over-focused on maintaining access to such private data, they'd have done more to ensure other nations and individuals couldn't assemble/buy such data as well. We need to cut them off from that data hard, then refocus on protecting American's private data from everyone
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I disagree, in that the power can allow much more despotic actions. Imagine if Trump wins again and decides to purge those he doesn’t like in government. Last time the systems of government slowed him down significantly, but allowing those systems to be ripped away under the guise of national security doesn’t help when the despotic leader walks in.
Right now the NSA can simply get a warrant. It’s not hard, and hoovering up data has proven fairly worthless in and of itself so far.
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It's actually perfectly sane. Elected officials are terrified of commercials (funded by data brokers or political rivals) accusing them of not protecting the children from pedophiles, drug dealers, and terrorists. Doing nothing is far safer....
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Dear NSA
I want my full privacy back– all of it. I’ve worked since 5th grade, thru college, volunteered for ANG to die for this country; had 3 VC startups with 8 different careers thru thick&thin economy in five different states on both coasts
Privacy is mine. You owe it back; every last shred of it after all that
At 70yrs, best send it Overnight Air Express
Like to enjoy it one last time without you lookin’
I want my full privacy back– all of it. I’ve worked since 5th grade, thru college, volunteered for ANG to die for this country; had 3 VC startups with 8 different careers thru thick&thin economy in five different states on both coasts
Privacy is mine. You owe it back; every last shred of it after all that
At 70yrs, best send it Overnight Air Express
Like to enjoy it one last time without you lookin’
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But if you’ve got nothing to hide, the. It shouldn’t even matter.
“Most people who don’t care about their protected rights”.
Meeps.
“Most people who don’t care about their protected rights”.
Meeps.
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Cant really hide from your data being collected.
When you fill up a contact form, sign up for a product, request demos, make a purchase , your data is collected , stored and most likely sent to Google / Facebook / Amazon and any other platforms for advertising attribution anyways. Can even upload offline transactions tied to an email , name
I am aware of the practice since 2016. perhaps it was available before, but I cannot say.
Marketing departments have their hands all over this and exchange it left and right. If there is a group of people with the least amount of accountability in a business, it’s the marketing department.
When you fill up a contact form, sign up for a product, request demos, make a purchase , your data is collected , stored and most likely sent to Google / Facebook / Amazon and any other platforms for advertising attribution anyways. Can even upload offline transactions tied to an email , name
I am aware of the practice since 2016. perhaps it was available before, but I cannot say.
Marketing departments have their hands all over this and exchange it left and right. If there is a group of people with the least amount of accountability in a business, it’s the marketing department.
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Business records should never have been available to anyone other than the company that kept them, without a warrant, in the first place. But that ship sailed a century ago.
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Are we reading different comments threads on here? Because everyone here seems really upset that this can be sold in the first place more so than it's being sold specifically to three letter agencies.
Also my goodness how quickly you red-blooded right wing constitution thumping dudes are quick to go full fascist in the name of safety. Wasn't it you who was losing his mind at the idea of changing the height of the front of pickup trucks in a different thread just a few days ago? I like how you want to talk about saving a few thousand lives at 9/11 as seemingly being worth any cost to everyone, but the thought of regulating the height of a pickup truck to save 800 a year? Well that's just communism and not American.
It's honestly infuriating how bad faith all of the arguments from dudes like you are. It's just b******* all the way down.
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And that's definitely good and all, but ultimately, it doesn't affect the spy network. At least it chips away at corporate power - there's still hope for doing something about that - but I can't think of anything that would ever get rid of the US government's addiction to spying on it's own citizens.
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Citizens may not like it but beware the enemy within. The biggest threat apart from a nuclear war is those within the state, knowingly or unknowingly, bent on destruction.
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Not gonna happen. This type of spying has strong bipartisan support. One of the leading supporters was the late Dianne Feinstein, but the R side isn't any better. Nor are most Ds, not even Bernie Sanders.
And to think that there is a risk that on 1/20/2025, that treasure trove may fall in the lap of Trump. <shudder>. Anybody who had an abortion (or just went to Planned Parenthood) or visited a dispensary will suddenly be at risk. Not to mention LGBTQA+ or even their supporters.
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Not even that seems to help. Didn't Jeff Bezos get exposed? He dealt with it in a smart way, by calling the hacker's bluff, but not everybody is in a position to do that.
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You don't want a despot to have this type of tool available. And once Trump has been elected, it's too late to stop it.
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When people have to quote Goebbels to defend their position, they don't have a leg to stand on.
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I knew it would be wyden, he's the only one that gives a shit about our rights. and as far as the NSA being dirty and downlow........what a total shocker.
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hahaha I said the same thing to a cop once, when he said if you have nothing to hide then you shouldnt worry about giving up your 4th amendment and just showing me your ID.........quoting hitlers minister of propaganda isnt the best way to get your point across.
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SpankyFrost
Ars Centurion
He didn't say that! He said he wasn't aware of any LAW that requires consent. However, he apparently FORGOT that the FTC has done just that. But alas... this will go no where! These rogue leaders in these agencies hear Sen Wyden... then close the door and laugh... THIS is exactly why you have millions hating the government with absolutely NO accountability!
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SpankyFrost
Ars Centurion
You all realize that most of this data is what funds google, facebook, X/Twitter, tic tok, etc etc etc... There is where the laws needs to be focused.. but that will never happen as long as Trump and the GOP have a stranglehold on everything!
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Not doing it now won't prevent a future Trump from starting it up again the moment they come into office. The thing to do is to shut down the data brokers to start with. But regardless of how possible that is, the reason not do it is because it is the sort of thing a free society shouldn't do. Despots are going to despot regardless.
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This shouldn't upset anyone here. Endless examples of demanding A Brave New World despite imaginary threats. A classic example, that FCC director, endlessly being wrong about political scandals, yet blind to left corruption. Oil is an evil corruption, but nothing to see -3 years. I stopped waiting for the health reporter, whose a literary skills are on the top-level. Despite all of the proof, verse all of the lies; what happened to the tech sector? I'm shocked how so many are blind to cliche' propaganda. My point is this is more of the same that so many demand. The end justify the means. Yet, thee means aren't meant for us. They're meant to make the elite richer but social engineering ignorant youth foot soldiers, who cannot critically think. So, they're Bulsheviks. I'm 80% liberal, but I'm absolutely against the machine.
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Honestly I wonder if Taylor Swift will be the one to drive this forward. She isn’t beholden to industry like the politicians, but has a large enough “constituency” in her fan base to press for change.
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loginnombre
Ars Scholae Palatinae
Legality is rather questionable given the spirit of the 4th amendment. Unfortunately conservative judges will almost always decide in favor of cops, and the highest court in our country is extreme far right radicals who don't care about precedent, liberties, or the Constitution.
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Surprising NOONE! THANK YOU ERIC SNOWDEN !! FREE JULIAN ASSANGE !!
You fascist pigs ....thank you
You fascist pigs ....thank you
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IPunchCholla
Ars Scholae Palatinae
Well, you elect representatives that will hold power accountable. If those representatives don’t exist in your district, you become that representative. Or help the person that does, in some small way.
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What was the point of fighting for better privacy back in 2007? Seems all the work I did as a young man along with like minded people was undid by big money and now their children seem super oblivious now that anyone (including the government) can buy your information.
On private citizens purchasing info: I was recently a victim of this in 2022/23 when a bunch of videogame goldfarmering nerds were unhappy I was bringing unwanted attention to their activities. They threatened my father and my workplace, and some weasel from some other country got jailed because of it, I'm still waiting for the rest of his "friends" to follow.
Better protection for privacy were needed years ago. IMO its now too late.
On private citizens purchasing info: I was recently a victim of this in 2022/23 when a bunch of videogame goldfarmering nerds were unhappy I was bringing unwanted attention to their activities. They threatened my father and my workplace, and some weasel from some other country got jailed because of it, I'm still waiting for the rest of his "friends" to follow.
Better protection for privacy were needed years ago. IMO its now too late.
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The joker who turned into an agent of Putin by trying to start a disinformation campaign against the Panama Papers because it investigated Russian oligarchs? No thank you.
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The point of the limits on government power is assuming you can't trust the government. It's not supposed to be easy for them to get information on their citizens, they're doing this because there are people in government who find the fourth amendment inconvenient and found a way around it.
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For those who are suggesting that selling this data be illegal, I agree, and also feel that laws against collection should also be present. Belt and suspenders, if you will.
Unfortunately without whistle blowers or some other transparency mechanism we can actually trust, it's almost impossible not to collect some of this information just in the course of doing business over the internet.
Coarse location data can be gleaned from the source ip address in your web server logs, for example.
It's a tricky problem from a technical standpoint. Though that shouldn't stop us from pushing for these laws anyway.
Unfortunately without whistle blowers or some other transparency mechanism we can actually trust, it's almost impossible not to collect some of this information just in the course of doing business over the internet.
Coarse location data can be gleaned from the source ip address in your web server logs, for example.
It's a tricky problem from a technical standpoint. Though that shouldn't stop us from pushing for these laws anyway.
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Remember, that a (D) at the end of a politician’s name means they care about you.
Not like T**** (the loser), who will jail you for being smart.
Oh, he owes E. Jean Caroll 83 million dollars.
Not like T**** (the loser), who will jail you for being smart.
Oh, he owes E. Jean Caroll 83 million dollars.
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