NSA finally admits to spying on Americans by purchasing sensitive data
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Moultrie hits the problem nail on the head: this is all perfectly legal under the laws written by Congress about data privacy and the precedents entered by courts on data privacy.
Wyden needs to turn manufactured outrage into civil action to convince Congress to act. Call your representative.
Wyden needs to turn manufactured outrage into civil action to convince Congress to act. Call your representative.
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This is about as shocking news as when Snowden said it. Or the Patriot Act was passed. Or when it was revealed the FBI spied on civil rights movement leaders. Or the era of the red scare. Or when the FBI was first formed. Or...
(Seriously, just knowledge of recent history makes any of this unsurprising. There's a reason the far right exists)
Not to say it's not worth publicly pointing out, again I guess. But these organizations basically operate on the edge or outside the laws and the constitution itself. You can't really fight a legal battle against an appointment that doesn't, hasn't, and was created from the onset to not care about the law. This is an issue that will never be resolved without a massive redoing of the government itself, and considering that they are part of the government, that means there's no peaceful means of resolution. All peaceful measures will be about as effective as convincing the PRC to stop spying on it's citizens by talking to them. Even if Congress magically passed a law and didn't care about likely blackmail these organizations carry on some senators (and that's probably plenty on the Republican side), they'll always find a way around it. Heck just off the top of my head, they'll probably just increase reliance on the 7 eyes members.
This is a battle long ago lost civically. If you want any semblance of privacy from the government as an American, it'll be your responsibility, and it'll likely draw more scrutiny anyway. Heck, they never even got punished for their just recent escapade of secret service deleting messages for example.
Accept the comfort of peace under the ever gazing eye, or be willing to sacrifice everything to scratch at a castle. That's all there is left - and considering they spy on expats, likely there is no escape, until death of yourself or of your social life.
Edit: you can downvote the pessimism all you want - things will still be as they are 10 years from now as they have been the last 50+. See you next time in the perennial "person in government points out terrible thing that was obviously happening, organization admits it's true, and then nothing happens or things get worse". Feel free to give a solution that'll lead to something that might eventually work, but we know deep down the truth.
(Seriously, just knowledge of recent history makes any of this unsurprising. There's a reason the far right exists)
Not to say it's not worth publicly pointing out, again I guess. But these organizations basically operate on the edge or outside the laws and the constitution itself. You can't really fight a legal battle against an appointment that doesn't, hasn't, and was created from the onset to not care about the law. This is an issue that will never be resolved without a massive redoing of the government itself, and considering that they are part of the government, that means there's no peaceful means of resolution. All peaceful measures will be about as effective as convincing the PRC to stop spying on it's citizens by talking to them. Even if Congress magically passed a law and didn't care about likely blackmail these organizations carry on some senators (and that's probably plenty on the Republican side), they'll always find a way around it. Heck just off the top of my head, they'll probably just increase reliance on the 7 eyes members.
This is a battle long ago lost civically. If you want any semblance of privacy from the government as an American, it'll be your responsibility, and it'll likely draw more scrutiny anyway. Heck, they never even got punished for their just recent escapade of secret service deleting messages for example.
Accept the comfort of peace under the ever gazing eye, or be willing to sacrifice everything to scratch at a castle. That's all there is left - and considering they spy on expats, likely there is no escape, until death of yourself or of your social life.
Edit: you can downvote the pessimism all you want - things will still be as they are 10 years from now as they have been the last 50+. See you next time in the perennial "person in government points out terrible thing that was obviously happening, organization admits it's true, and then nothing happens or things get worse". Feel free to give a solution that'll lead to something that might eventually work, but we know deep down the truth.
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Dugh. I mean...we've know this for years. If the cops, etc...were / are doing it...you bet your panties the NSA is / was doing it.
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This is the actual problem. There is a problem with intelligence agencies buying data, but there's a much bigger problem with these companies selling the data in the first place. Making it illegal for the NSA to purchase what is perfectly legal for the Chinese State Security Ministry or the Russian Foreign Intelligence Service to buy is just being stupid.
What's more - making it illegal for the NSA to buy it means nothing if the British MI6, French Directorate for External Security, the Israeli Mossad, or any other allied intelligence service can purchase it because the NSA can just get it from them.
The thing that needs to be done is to make it illegal to sell the data at all without explicit consent. Will that kill an industry? Maybe, maybe not. If it does it's an industry that deserves to die. If it doesn't, then it'll make the whole process more transparent and better for all of us. Either way it's a win-win.
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These are true Americans trying to protect American from ALL enemies, foreign or domestic. They will use any tools they can get to to fulfill their sacred charge.
or to put in Darkest Dungeon terms.
"Worry not overmuch about your actions, your noble ends justify any of the means you may choose."
/s, I think, I don't even know anymore.
or to put in Darkest Dungeon terms.
"Worry not overmuch about your actions, your noble ends justify any of the means you may choose."
/s, I think, I don't even know anymore.
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If congress wants to stop this (and they should) then laws need to be passed to prevent it.
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It isn't illegal, and this has been a known loop-hole for almost 50 years. The other absurd known loop-hole is that we spy on citizens of the other 5 EYES (edit - not 7) countries, they spy on ours, then the spy groups trade data. So technically neither group did spying on their own citizens.
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We should also be concerned with the unregulated entities often called “data brokers”, these “brokers” have no respect for users privacy, and frequently suffer from data leaks due to bad security practices.
We need real data protection laws.
We need real data protection laws.
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Isn’t that the Five Eyes nations: US, UK, Canada, Australia and New Zealand?
Possibly same setup with other allied nations. It wouldn’t be a surprise that a lot of intelligence sharing is to utilize such loopholes.
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Here's a thought: Pass a law that no personal information can be released to anyone - sold, borrowed, traded, gifted, subpoenaed, etc. - without all parties informing the individual that their personal information was accessed, by whom and why.
For legal entities, that's what's required for a warrant, which is what these fuckers are not getting to get our private information.
Oh, wait, we have laws that say do that, for the most part.
Well, fuck, if the laws we have aren't good enough, maybe we need to swap out the people breaking them, throw them in prison for a few years, and hire folks who will actually follow the laws.
Or, I don't know, ban the collection of that data in the first place?
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Yep it is Five Eyes, not 7, not sure why I put 7 - brain fart
(Funnily there are other X Eyes - 5 Eyes+, 9 Eyes, 14 Eyes - all related to the same sort of intelligence sharing, but no 7 eyes).Yeah not sure, wouldn't surprise me - especially for Israel and Nordic countries but don't recall reading anything specific on it (on the 'we spy on your citizens we spy on yours front' plenty of general intelligence sharing, but not per se about working around national legal restrictions on intelligence agencies).
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Five_Eyes
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if they can purchase the data, then every single corporation and government in the world can do the same. not that I want to be spied on, but it would be dumb for them to not purchase the data.
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Not being allowed to collect data yourself but being allowed to buy/trade it from others seems like a colossal loophole and perhaps a gift to the government contractor industry.
I wonder how this applies for things like mercenaries: if a band of private military contractors commits a war crime on their own initiative, is the company or their employer responsible?
I wonder how this applies for things like mercenaries: if a band of private military contractors commits a war crime on their own initiative, is the company or their employer responsible?
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Yep it is Five Eyes, not 7, not sure why I put 7 - brain fart
3x3 Eyes
No, not related to the topic at all. Just a ping for old nerds
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I think it's time for a new set of Bork Tapes
Edit: tldr Publication of the video rental history of Supreme Court nominee, 1987, which subsequently led to legislative protection.
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Minor nit to pick here Mr. Ronald Moultrie. The data was not all legally obtained by the data broker.
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who'd you rather trust? these 3 letter teams or your neighbor stockpiling ammo, weapons and buying body armor?
or some sleazy Facebook, Apple, google, amazon indexing service with profitability as its only true reason to exist?
or some sleazy Facebook, Apple, google, amazon indexing service with profitability as its only true reason to exist?
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If Patreon is trying to get those existing laws overturned, do you really think there's a hope of getting new laws when Facebook's lobbying powers are used?
It is a depressing reality.
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This should be a surprise to absolutely nobody; John Oliver covered it nearly 2 years ago!
View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wqn3gR1WTcA
The surprising thing to me is that this isn't a bipartisan issue that gets fixed immediately. If we can't have common ground on this being bad for the government to be doing and demanding our reps close this loophole, how are we ever gonna agree on anything? Insanity.
View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wqn3gR1WTcA
The surprising thing to me is that this isn't a bipartisan issue that gets fixed immediately. If we can't have common ground on this being bad for the government to be doing and demanding our reps close this loophole, how are we ever gonna agree on anything? Insanity.
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I love how when the NSA buys data it's an outrage and the fact that private businesses do this causes people to yawn. The fact that data collection is legal in the first place is the actual outrage here.
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Yeah but nobody wants to hear how Tencent is a giant data collection platform and not actually a game company.
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Until a congress-critter or some billionaire gets wacked by someone using bought and paid for data, nothing will change. And then, it will somehow work out that only the rich and powerful get any protection.
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The GOP doing something that actually benefits the general public at the expense of buisines? BWAHAHAHA, right.
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Eh, I'm betting on that one happening 20 years from now, when more of the fresh water runs out and the polar vortex is either gone or free roaming.So quick to count out the global collapse of industrial civilization
And even then the spy network may still persist. Information has value in warfare after all.
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The worst part of this isn't that the NSA bought it, but that someone was legally able to sell it. No company should be allowed to do this; instead, they should be dismantled with funds going to the scammed victims.
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Probably because you are very, very confused about what "the Ars commentariat" actually does or does not get "huffy" about. Maybe because those ideological blinkers keep you from seeing the broader picture, and anyhow you aren't actually looking around anyways?
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Is it really "spying" if you (or anyone with money) can walk into a market and buy a "package" of data? (Data that people probably made publicly available on their own)
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Yeah, I totally deleted that useful data that was super illegal and put into massive use. Sout's honor. Trust me bro
There better be an audit
e; they already built their models. they already have a "dataset". What's done is done and while nothing new is coming their way, im sure they could improve on what they already have
There better be an audit
e; they already built their models. they already have a "dataset". What's done is done and while nothing new is coming their way, im sure they could improve on what they already have
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