New Microsoft gaming chief has “no tolerance for bad AI”
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florinandrei
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So, they hired a complete talking head for that job?
How very Microsoft of them.
How very Microsoft of them.
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As long as Forza Horizon 6 doesn't suck and isn't invaded by the AI bullshit, I think I'll be happy. MS can ruin themselves after that if they'd like.
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Is it necessary to have experience in gaming for what is essentially a managerial position?
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There's no such thing as "good AI" though. Except that MS thinks there is, which means first party MS studios are about to get inundated by slop shit.
life misogyny, finds a way.
Capital G Gamers are so pathetic. You could easily just hate this person because they're an empty suit spouting off bullshit AI rhetoric. There's absolutely no reason to be sexist about it, but uhh,
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I am as sceptical as the next guy when it comes to these news but the "she's not a gamer" angle ain't it. Its nice that Phil was a gamer, but that didn't stop him and the organization around him from making some very questionable decisions around Xbox, and I am pretty sure that her being a certified gamer (tm) or not will not be the reason why Xbox and Microsoft will succeed or fail.
Hoping for the best, even though currently there's many more questions than convincing answers.
Hoping for the best, even though currently there's many more questions than convincing answers.
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Those statements don't read like a clear line against the use of AI tools to me. In fact, they seem deliberately crafted to leave lots of doors at least partially open.
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And thier first communication seemed well crafted by CoPilot
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Not at all, but this is also a figurehead position too. The public will see this new head of gaming and they will judge it based on her.
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I'm not convinced understanding the 'culture of gaming' is really much of a positive these days.
If anything I'd say ignoring it is probably smart.
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This is a possible future, but it won't come to pass if customers continue to reject it.
AI is great for making something that is 80% as good at less cost. But if what you as the consumer are buying is an experience and not a widget, and there is a crowded market full of too many options to try all of, why pick the 80% as good option? Demanding quality is the right choice.
That also goes for TTRPGs, a market which has also largely rejected AI. And Ryan Dancey just got the boot last week from board game maker AEG for his embrace of AI.
There is no inevitability. It's a choice.
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"No tolerance for bad AI" is known champion of bad AI
Can someone finally put a end to the LLM circle jerk already? For all the investment, there seems to be an extremely poor return both tech and financially. There are ancient non LLM models that beat the snot out of these losers pet projects. Load them onto modern equipment (bother to hire the required PhDs to actually build them) and they'd take a giant crap on their ill-conceived toys.
Edit: to be clear, as a ML researcher since 2012, these tools have a place. But as tools. Not the source of this modern cargo cult worshipping broken calculators correct only most of the time... particularly in games I can see good use cases... but not the "replace entire teams" morons. You finish the game 100pct then the AI can be used to push it to 120 or polish the tedium. (Again, all requiring the original creators to oversee its results). It shouldn't be a replacement of anything.
Can someone finally put a end to the LLM circle jerk already? For all the investment, there seems to be an extremely poor return both tech and financially. There are ancient non LLM models that beat the snot out of these losers pet projects. Load them onto modern equipment (bother to hire the required PhDs to actually build them) and they'd take a giant crap on their ill-conceived toys.
Edit: to be clear, as a ML researcher since 2012, these tools have a place. But as tools. Not the source of this modern cargo cult worshipping broken calculators correct only most of the time... particularly in games I can see good use cases... but not the "replace entire teams" morons. You finish the game 100pct then the AI can be used to push it to 120 or polish the tedium. (Again, all requiring the original creators to oversee its results). It shouldn't be a replacement of anything.
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The general concept of "AI" in the context of video games has absolutely nothing to do with LLMs, though.
But I guess part of her job is going to be about convincing people otherwise.
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Yeah let's be honest, "gaming culture" just means "I want to be a sexist/racist/homophobic asshole without getting called out for being a massive piece of shit."
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You could argue Nintendo doesn't understand gaming culture, at least not Western gaming culture. Hasn't stopped their success, because understanding the culture is not a prerequisite to creating fun experiences.
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That's pretty much how every large studio understands their audience these days because very few gaming execs really have their finger on the pulse through first hand experience anymore. And when they do, it's generally niche genres with their own microculture. Which I would argue is actually what you want, because trying to understand and appeal to the audience that played Halo isn't going to necessarily translate to something else.
Nor do I really think trying to shackle yourself to a perceived and nebulous monolith "culture" is really a great way to make good, exciting games that push genres forward. That's how you get annual releases of Assassin's Creed and CoD and not much else. Especially when it comes to an executive, I want an executive team that knows how to attract talent, believes in their talent, and backs them to take risks balanced against blockbusters. I don't really give a shit if they game or "understand gamers."
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Of course not. But it’s being brought up over and over again in this case, and that might leave you wondering what is the difference in many gamers’ opinions about her, might it not?
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Can't say I entirely disagree, which is sad to me.
I'd been computer gaming for decades now but when I think of Gamers, I'm reminded of toxic scum who think hiding their insecurities with derogatory, exclusive language is the play.
"Not all" and all that, but you can't dispute that they're a very vocal group.
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riiiiight. modern "gaming culture" very often looks like this:
https://www.theguardian.com/comment...r-old-girl-misogyny-social-media-online-abuse
"gaming culture" in modern parlance is a negative. 15 - 20+ years ago when it was still "niche" I would have worn the badge of a "gamer" as a merit badge. These days? It's commercialized to hell and back and so full of absolute chuds and incels who think they are owed something by women / the world at large it's just a cesspool.
Are there "nice" gamers under 20 out there? Yeah, probably, but you'll be hard pressed to find them since they get drowned in a sea of noise and vitriol. Back in the day you'd get some shit and get tea bagged or whatever, but it was all in good fun for the most part and you normally played with people at LAN parties vs. anonymously "online".
Throw in the social circle jerk that are modern social media circles and you end up with a problem.
That all being said; I game offline. I don't have the time or the patience to deal with online gaming outside occasionally an MMO when I want to scratch a gaming itch.
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Procedural generation =/= generative AI
Pretending they are the same is like claiming that because dice have long been used to generate random encounters in TTRPGs, that it's the same as using generative AI to generate modules.
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Alright, the way this is phrased suggests there is such a thing as "good" LLM AI, so I think it would be very helpful if she'd define her terms so we know where we actually stand.
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I came to make the exact same comment. I wouldn't even say it's partially open; the statement is entirely meaningless.
They promise not to flood their library with "soulless AI slop," which is an entirely subjective classification, whilst referencing "the most innovative technology provided by [Microsoft]."
Any reasonable reading of that statement should conclude that they intend on using generative AI during the development process. The only claim is that they don't think it will be bad which is not only speculative but it doesn't provide any kind of objective measure or guarantee.
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Even setting aside that whole side of things, because it's not like that's all there is, gaming culture is by and large performative whining.
Look at any subreddit or social media dedicated to a game or genre and people spend all their time complaining or dunking on things. And in part that's because it's seen as a way to game the refs.
Like, if you play a competitive game, a MOBA or fighting game, extraction shooter, whatever. The strategy is to bitterly complain about your preferred character and strategy to create social pressure for the next patch to improve things in your favor. Downplay your main, talk about how broken everything else is.
There is actually incentive to be toxic.
And when that comes from the 'top', meaning the most invested players, the ones who stream and have followings and set a lot of the tone, it trickles down.
Not overly engaging in all that feels like an actual wise move.
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I definitely don't like the conflation between AGI and the algorithmic AI going on in her statement about how "AI has been a part of gaming since the early days." The technology used for that assassin from Half-Life to track Gordon down across levels is not the same thing that is telling me to walk to the car wash.
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You know what would be a good use for LLMs in games?
Reviving text based adventure games like Zork, but not as janky.
Reviving text based adventure games like Zork, but not as janky.
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Microsoft's current plan is to sell AI subscriptions. They're doing it for Office, they'll do it for gaming studios, obviously. There's nothing surprising about this, they were doing machine learning avatars from the cloud for Forza years ago, and chatted it up to end users. This is just an extension of their current developer tools (DEVELOPERS DEVELOPERS DEVELOPERS).
The industry is a creative industry built on great sacrifice like Hollywood and there's a backlash for a very good reason. But MS isn't going to stop AI, they're going to profit.
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This is a pretty good articulation of a post I drafted, then deleted, because I wasn't sure how to frame my viewpoint. I tend to approach this from a development angle. Not a game developer, but my first career was software development. Users (in this instance gamers) are good at using software. They are generally terrible at critiquing it or (going a step further) designing it. And you have to take in everything they tell you through that lens if you're trying to solicit feedback for changes.
I don't wholly prescribe to the belief that you game developers should "ignore" gamers, especially when we are talking about established IPs, but enslaving yourself to them in appeasement cycles is a recipe for disaster every time. Playing games does not make them good at game design and their thoughts on that subject need naught be trusted because even ignoring the wider context of broader issues with "gaming culture," gamers themselves are inherently biased since they generally want the way they play to be busted & overpowered at the expense of the playing experience for anyone else.
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We wont make games with bad AI =
Microsoft doesnt make bad AI so no matter what gets churned out by the AI here it is good.
Whatever gets MS through another quarter with their shareholders is what matters, whether they finally alienate ALL of their curent gaming customers does not.
Microsoft doesnt make bad AI so no matter what gets churned out by the AI here it is good.
Whatever gets MS through another quarter with their shareholders is what matters, whether they finally alienate ALL of their curent gaming customers does not.
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